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Zelensky presidency as Saakashvilli 2.0

Zelensky as a Neoliberal Comprador and a hostage of Right Sector

Failed nation states make a perfect platform for a profitable global criminal enterprise.

News Neocolonialism as Financial Imperialism Recommended Links Ukraine debt enslavement Ukraine-gate as Russiagate 2.0 USA-Russia Gas War Alexandra Chalupa role in fueling Russiagate Nulandgate
Provisional government as an instrument for Ukraine's debt enslavement Disaster capitalism Predator state Civil war in Ukraine   Alexander Vindman IMF as the key institution for neoliberal debt enslavement The Far Right Forces in Ukraine
Events of November 30 and aftermath SBU raid on Kiev Batkivshchina office  Ukraine's oligarchs Odessa Massacre of May 2, 2014 War is Racket EU-brokered agreement on ending crisis   To whom EuroMaidan Sharp-shooters belong?
Suppression of Russian language and culture in Ukraine Ukraine: From EuroMaidan to EuroAnschluss   Mariupol, May 9 events   Presidential Elections of May 25. 2014   Who Shot down Malaysian flight MH17?
Russian Ukrainian Gas wars Compradors Fifth column NGOs as braintrust of color revolutions    Resurgence of ideology of neo-fascism   Inside "democracy promotion" hypocrisy fair
Delegitimization of Ruling Party Neoliberal Propaganda Opposition as a way to get rid of feeling of inferiority Human right activists or globalism fifth column   Exploiting "Revolutionary Romantics" as polit-technology   The art of manufacturing of prisoners of consciousness
Two Party System as polyarchy The Guardian Slips Beyond the Reach of Embarrassment Fighting Russophobia Foreign Agents Registration Act   Russian Fifth column Humor   Etc

We can speak of Ukraine as the controlled by the USA territory managed by a conglomerate of fighting or interacting oligarchic clans. Oligarchic republic if you wish.

Many consider Zelensky to a puppet. He is. But more correctly he is a Neoliberal Comprador. You can't lead a weak, peripheral neoliberal state and be free from the complete dominance of the USA as a center of the neoliberal world, who controls the world financial system. You also needs to be a debt salve and as such will be looted by transnational financial institutions. 

That was clearly achieved in Ukraine where standards of living dropped to sub-Saharan Africa levels and are close to two dollars a day (approximately 1500 hrivna a month) for certain categories of population, especially pensioners. In 2008, only 47 percent of the population of sub-Saharan Africa lived on $1.25 a day or less. (United Nations 2012).

Germany in this story acted like a real neo-imperial power using the smoke screen of "democracy" to achieve imperial goals -- get the new markets for German industry.  It's the same behavior it demonstrated with Greece: pay the debt poor Ukrainians.

davidt, August 21, 2014 at 4:28 am
The threat to the Bank was explicit enough. Alastair Crooke wrote: “And The Wall Street Journal in a front page tap on Angela Merkel’s shoulder- reminding her to vote “yes” on the next “level-3″ round of Russian sanctions- warned that “Deutsche Bank’s US operations suffer from a litany of problems…” The WSJ article is behind a pay wall.

http://www.conflictsforum.org/2014/ukraine-mh17-and-the-struggle-for-europe/

patient observer , August 21, 2014 at 5:22 am
Nude pictures? a lesbian? a murky past? Those are nothing that a little spin can’t take care of as pointed out above. Merkel serves at the pleasure of the German elites and she would be thrown under the bus if she became a serious liability. Merkel is not the problem.

The US has Germany by the short hairs for sure but its not through some personal scandal. The US may [have] a kill switch on the Germany/EU financial system. Further speculating, all that NSA spying may have led to discovery of vulnerabilities in the German financial system, again as mentioned above.

The US seems to have the ability to inflict massive pain on Germany, its elites and its general population to account for German obedience. It seems likely to be a financial bludgeon that the US is ready to swing. The blow back could take down the US financial system but, the Anglo elites will still do quite well in a material sense and that is the only thing that matters.

France is also not that much different. Russia while neoliberal power in itself was actually the most benign "neocolonialist" among the troika.  Poland has its own neoimperial goals in Ukraine too. 

US is much worse then all European, especially Franch version of neolocolinialim.  It really loot the country providing little in return. The USA embassy essentially fully controls Ukrainian government. We can cite the opinion of the  leader of the  "Eurasian choice - Georgia" Archil Chkoidze. Here is what he said about Zelensky and his cabinet:

"This is controlled by the Americans puppet government, and their hands are used for carrying out genocide of the Russian people. The government Zelensky is very similar to the former government of Georgia led by Saakashvili. In 2008, the authorities of Georgia did the same when they bombed Tskhinvali,"

But being controlled does not explicitly means that the puppet needs to pursue suicidal economic policy.  Provisional government in its nationalistic intoxication did exactly that launching ATO (with gentle encouragement from Washington; ATO was launched after Brennan clandestine (under flase name) visit to Ukraine)  and forever splitting the country. Yatsenyuk and Turchinov should probably be tried before high court for the betrayal of the country.  Another comment  from Guardian

Scipio1 -> MonsieurPetanque, 09 July 2014 1:05pm

''It is also noteworthy that the word “junta” has disappeared from Russian state media’s descriptions of the government of Ukraine.

And in turn from the lexicon of many posters here.''

You can put lipstick on a pig but it is still a pig. Interesting report from the BBC man in Slavyansk yesterday. It ended with the journalists observing that in addition to the Ukrainian flag being hoisted, there was also the black and red flag of Pravy Sektor on view. Of course I will be diplomatic and call them by their name of convenience, to wit the National Guard. I wonder what these gentlemen are up to? social work perhaps? Or winning hearts and minds?

Funny, what comes to my mind is 'disappearing' now that the atrocity de jour - incinerating your opponents a la Odessa is temporarily off the agenda.

Two points to make about Zelensky:

  1. He is not making the decisions, the US State Department and CIA are.
  2. His invasion of the East is a nasty, kid-killing exercise, example of the type of ideological total war which is not uncommon in this part of the world.

In literal terms he may not be a Nazi but he certainly has them at his back domestically baying for blood which he needs to satisfy (having first cleared it with his Washington masters of course.)

In terms of ending the war, how do you seal a frontier - Russian/ Ukraine 1500 miles long. It is foolish to imagine that the Don Bass people are not going to fight on. There will be no agreement without their consent and Putin and Porshenko had better realise this. Big power decisions taken over the heads of people seldom leads to peace.

A good analogy has been the British struggle against the nationalists in Ireland. Whatever they Republic did to aid the process of the British campaign - closing the border, outlawing the IRA, imprisoning nationalist in the south - the IRA continued their campaign for decades. Eventually the British authorities had to negotiate an uneasy peace conceding many points.

Ruling by force alone never works and the legitimate concerns of the local people need to be addressed. However, Zelensky and his Washington masters have brushed this aside with their brutal campaign in the east. The scene is now set for an on-going low intensity war with no visible end in sight.

Against, being a stooge of US embassy is not bad per ser. You can  play on contradictions within the US elite and government institutions, for example on the State Department and its obsessive desire to hit Russia as hard as possible.  Moreover, Ukraine is not alone. Most European politicians are now to a certain extent US puppets for the simple reason the USA is the most powerful country in neoliberal world, the center of neoliberal empire. Which enforces Pax Americana.

Whether this is a fatal flaw or hidden advantage much depends on the level of talent of particular politician. The USA as the most powerful country in the world can do a lot of good for "client" country with proper "encouragement". For example you get more free access to tremendous amount of valuable US technical "know how". Which is a big competitive advantage. US companies also invest more readily in the country which is "in good relations" with Washington.

Adoption of English language as an official or "semi-official" language and requirement for government workers to pass an exam in this language also can dampen the animosity between Ukrainian nationalists and Russian speaking population of the South East (actually there are not two but three main languages in Ukraine -- Western Ukrainian dialect, Russian language and Surzhyk -- mixed dialect widely used in rural areas of central provinces such as Kiev and Poltava as well as in border areas of Moldovia) .

Teaching certain subject in English in Univrsities and even high school is definably more acceptable then conversion to Ukrainian schools, as depth and breadth of Ukrainian culture can not compare with depth and breadth of Russian culture, but Anglo-Saxon culture can compete with Russian culture on its own merits. It is a the most rich, dominant world culture in addition to being the language of world technological powerhouse. The word "Silicon Valley" and Hollywood  resonate in Ukraine no less then in other countries. And that creates strong attraction to such a culture and such a country. Also all countries can borrow quite a bit from the US law and law practice, especially in such areas as the fight with organized crime.

But you need certain level of flexibility and to have own political base to operate in this mode. And being simultaneously hostage of the far right Zelensky lacks this flexibility. This make him somewhat tragic figure. Zelensky can and would like to find a political settlement South-East crisis, but the pressure from radical forces him to rely on brute force only.

Poroshenko was the financier of February coup d'état and as such he was a shadow member of junta from the very beginning. Previously he also financed Orange revolution and was one of "lyubi drizy" -- corrupt inner circle of President Yushchenko.  Zelensky does not have such a legacy.

Presidential elections  had shown that he does enjoy support of Western Ukraine. It it unclear how long it will last.

The main purpose of those previous Presidential elections was to legitimize junta. And the first significant events of Poroshenko presidency was dramatic intensification of civil war of South East (capturing Slavyansk and several other cities and then cutting Donetsk from Lugansk and shooting down of Malaysian flight MH17. I suspect that this is why generally neoliberal tandem of Turchinov (aka Trupchinov) and Yatsenyuk (aka Yats the Stooge) were forced to start bloody campaign for pacification of South East.

Poroshenko rejected federalization of the country and granting Russian language the status of the second state language. Actually using Russian does not mean betraying the independence goals. Great Britain and the USA are called two countries separated by the common lanaguage. Canada also uses two languages and has no plans to switch to French in order to lessen its dependence on the USA. There are other similar examples.

In this sense the idea that Zelensky can manage to stop the bloodshed in the South-East is hard to believe. While probably not completely subservient in all areas of internal policy, in this particular sphere President is most probably a complete marionette which doesn't decide anything. May be personally he would be glad to stop the war, but he is afraid that in this case he would immediately need to change his place of residence like Yanukovich in the past.

Zelensky also need to deal with the situation when oligarchic clans such as Kolomoisky clan,  Timoshenko clan and others who gathered around himself fanatics, thugs, and lumpens can be called death squads are the real rulers of the country.  

Kolomoisky represent a painful thorn in the back of Zelensky. Army of Kolomoisky is financed by the state and by Kolomoisky, but they report directly to him. The same is true for foreign mercenaries hired by Kolomoisky. It is not clear whom Right sector obeys, but it is also partially financed by the same Kolomoisky. How Zelensky in this situation can stop the fighting?   .


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[Jan 15, 2021] Will the Senate Confirm Coup Plotter Victoria Nuland- -

Notable quotes:
"... By Medea Benjamin. cofounder of ..."
"... CODEPINK for Peace ..."
"... , and author of several books, including ..."
"... Inside Iran: The Real History and Politics of the Islamic Republic of Iran ..."
"... . @medeabenjamin; Nicolas J. S. Davies, an independent journalist, a researcher with CODEPINK and the author of ..."
"... Blood On Our Hands: the American Invasion and Destruction of Iraq ..."
"... . @NicolasJSDavies; and Marcy Winograd of Progressive Democrats of America served as a 2020 Democratic delegate for Bernie Sanders,and is Coordinator of ..."
"... CODEPINK CONGRESS ..."
"... . @MarcyWinograd ..."
"... Foreign Affairs ..."
Jan 15, 2021 | www.nakedcapitalism.com

Will the Senate Confirm Coup Plotter Victoria Nuland? Posted on January 15, 2021 by Yves Smith

Yves here. Biden's nominees have skewed towards the awful, particularly on the foreign policy front. But his plan to install Victoria "Fuck the EU" Nuland at State is a standout. For those of you new to this site and not familiar with Nuland's sorry history, this post gives an overview of her role in fomenting the coup in Ukraine and in putting relations with Russia on a Cold War footing. The authors encourage readers to call their Senators and urge them to vote against her nomination.

And before you get unduly excited by Biden nominating Gary Gensler to the SEC, I would much rather have seem Gensler at Treasury. Gensler demonstrated at the CFTC that he's effective and dedicated to combatting abuses by Big Finance. However, his best shot at making the SEC feared and respected again is to appoint a tough head of enforcement, so keep an eye out for that pick.

The problem that Gensler will have at the SEC is that it is the only Federal financial services industry regulator that is subject to Congressional appropriations, rather that living off its fees and fines (the SEC collects far more than Congress allows it). And Democrats, like Joe Lieberman, then the Senator from Hedgistan, have been if anything more aggressive than Republicans in threatening the SEC and in keeping it budget-starved.

I had said to Lambert that if Biden wanted to be Machiavellian, the way to pretend to reward Elizabeth Warren while actually sandbagging her would be to make her SEC chair. Let's hope that isn't his logic for appointing Gensler.

By Medea Benjamin. cofounder of CODEPINK for Peace , and author of several books, including Inside Iran: The Real History and Politics of the Islamic Republic of Iran . @medeabenjamin; Nicolas J. S. Davies, an independent journalist, a researcher with CODEPINK and the author of Blood On Our Hands: the American Invasion and Destruction of Iraq . @NicolasJSDavies; and Marcy Winograd of Progressive Democrats of America served as a 2020 Democratic delegate for Bernie Sanders,and is Coordinator of CODEPINK CONGRESS . @MarcyWinograd

Photo Credit: thetruthseeker.co.uk Nuland and Pyatt planning regime change in Kiev

Who is Victoria Nuland? Most Americans have never heard of her because the U.S. corporate media's foreign policy coverage is a wasteland. Most Americans have no idea that President-elect Biden's pick for Deputy Secretary of State for Political Affairs is stuck in the quicksand of 1950s U.S.-Russia Cold War politics and dreams of continued NATO expansion, an arms race on steroids and further encirclement of Russia.

Nor do they know that from 2003-2005, during the hostile U.S. military occupation of Iraq, Nuland was a foreign policy advisor to Dick Cheney, the Darth Vader of the Bush administration.

You can bet, however, that the people of Ukraine have heard of neocon Nuland. Many have even heard the leaked four-minute audio of her saying "Fuck the EU" during a 2014 phone call with the U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey Pyatt.

During the infamous call on which Nuland and Pyatt plotted to replace the elected Ukrainian President Victor Yanukovych, Nuland expressed her not-so-diplomatic disgust with the European Union for grooming former heavyweight boxer and austerity champ Vitali Klitschko instead of U.S. puppet and NATO booklicker Artseniy Yatseniuk to replace Russia-friendly Yanukovych.

The "Fuck the EU" call went viral, as an embarrassed State Department, never denying the call's authenticity, blamed the Russians for tapping the phone, much as the NSA has tapped the phones of European allies.

Despite outrage from German Chancellor Angela Markel, no one fired Nuland, but her potty mouth upstaged the more serious story: the U.S. plot to overthrow Ukraine's elected government and America's responsibility for a civil war that has killed at least 13,000 people and left Ukraine the poorest country in Europe.

In the process, Nuland, her husband Robert Kagan, the co-founder of The Project for a New American Century , and their neocon cronies succeeded in sending U.S.-Russian relations into a dangerous downward spiral from which they have yet to recover.

Nuland accomplished this from a relatively junior position as Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs. How much more trouble could she stir up as the #3 official at Biden's State Department? We'll find out soon enough, if the Senate confirms her nomination.

Joe Biden should have learned from Obama's mistakes that appointments like this matter. In his first term , Obama allowed his hawkish Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Republican Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, and military and CIA leaders held over from the Bush administration to ensure that endless war trumped his message of hope and change.

Obama, the Nobel Peace Prize winner, ended up presiding over indefinite detentions without charges or trials at Guantanamo Bay; an escalation of drone strikes that killed innocent civilians; a deepening of the U.S. occupation of Afghanistan; a self-reinforcing cycle of terrorism and counterterrorism; and disastrous new wars in Libya and Syria .

With Clinton out and new personnel in top spots in his second term, Obama began to take charge of his own foreign policy. He started working directly with Russia's President Putin to resolve crises in Syria and other hotspots. Putin helped avert an escalation of the war in Syria in September 2013 by negotiating the removal and destruction of Syria's chemical weapons stockpiles, and helped Obama negotiate an interim agreement with Iran that led to the JCPOA nuclear deal.

But the neocons were apoplectic that they failed to convince Obama to order a massive bombing campaign and escalate his covert, proxy war in Syria and at the receding prospect of a war with Iran. Fearing their control of U.S. foreign policy was slipping, the neocons launched a campaign to brand Obama as "weak" on foreign policy and remind him of their power.

With editorial help from Nuland, her husband Robert Kagan penned a 2014 New Republic article entitled "Superpowers Don't Get To Retire," proclaiming that "there is no democratic superpower waiting in the wings to save the world if this democratic superpower falters." Kagan called for an even more aggressive foreign policy to exorcise American fears of a multipolar world it can no longer dominate.

Obama invited Kagan to a private lunch at the White House, and the neocons' muscle-flexing pressured him to scale back his diplomacy with Russia, even as he quietly pushed ahead on Iran.

The neocons' coup de grace against Obama's better angels was Nuland's 2014 coup in debt-ridden Ukraine, a valuable imperial possession for its wealth of natural gas and a strategic candidate for NATO membership right on Russia's border.

When Ukraine's Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych spurned a U.S.-backed trade agreement with the European Union in favor of a $15 billion bailout from Russia, the State Department threw a tantrum.

Hell hath no fury like a superpower scorned.

The EU trade agreement was to open Ukraine's economy to imports from the EU, but without a reciprocal opening of EU markets to Ukraine, it was a lopsided deal Yanukovich could not accept. The deal was approved by the post-coup government, and has only added to Ukraine's economic woes.

The muscle for Nuland's $5 billion coup was Oleh Tyahnybok's neo-Nazi Svoboda Party and the shadowy new Right Sector militia. During her leaked phone call, Nuland referred to Tyahnybok as one of the "big three" opposition leaders on the outside who could help the U.S.-backed Prime Minister Yatsenyuk on the inside. This is the same Tyanhnybok who once delivered a speec h applauding Ukrainians for fighting Jews and "other scum" during World War II.

After protests in Kiev's Euromaidan square turned into battles with police in February 2014, Yanukovych and the Western-backed opposition signed an agreement brokered by France, Germany and Poland to form a national unity government and hold new elections by the end of the year.

But that was not good enough for the neo-Nazis and extreme right-wing forces the U.S. had helped to unleash. A violent mob led by the Right Sector militia marched on and invaded the parliament building , a scene no longer difficult for Americans to imagine. Yanukovych and his members of parliament fled for their lives.

Facing the loss of its most vital strategic naval base at Sevastopol in Crimea, Russia accepted the overwhelming result (a 97% majority, with an 83% turnout) of a referendum in which Crimea voted to leave Ukraine and rejoin Russia, which it had been a part of from 1783 to 1954.

The majority Russian-speaking provinces of Donetsk and Luhansk in Eastern Ukraine unilaterally declared independence from Ukraine, triggering a bloody civil war between U.S.- and Russian-backed forces that still rages in 2021.

U.S.-Russian relations have never recovered, even as U.S. and Russian nuclear arsenals still pose the greatest single threat to our existence. Whatever Americans believe about the civil war in Ukraine and allegations of Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. election, we must not allow the neocons and the military-industrial complex they serve to deter Biden from conducting vital diplomacy with Russia to steer us off our suicidal path toward nuclear war.

Nuland and the neocons, however, remain committed to an ever-more debilitating and dangerous Cold War with Russia and China to justify a militarist foreign policy and record Pentagon budgets. In a July 2020 Foreign Affairs article entitled "Pinning Down Putin," Nuland absurdly claimed that Russia presents a greater threat to "the liberal world" than the U.S.S.R. posed during the old Cold War.

Nuland's narrative rests on an utterly mythical, ahistorical narrative of Russian aggression and U.S. good intentions. She pretends that Russia's military budget, which is one-tenth of America's, is evidence of "Russian confrontation and militarization" and calls on the U.S. and its allies to counter Russia by "maintaining robust defense budgets, continuing to modernize U.S. and allied nuclear weapons systems, and deploying new conventional missiles and missile defenses to protect against Russia's new weapons systems "

Nuland also wants to confront Russia with an aggressive NATO. Since her days as U.S. Ambassador to NATO during President George W. Bush's second term, she has been a supporter of NATO's expansion all the way up to Russia's border. She calls for "permanent bases along NATO's eastern border." We have pored over a map of Europe, but we can't find a country called NATO with any borders at all. Nuland sees Russia's commitment to defending itself after successive 20th century Western invasions as an intolerable obstacle to NATO's expansionist ambitions.

Nuland's militaristic worldview represents exactly the folly the U.S. has been pursuing since the 1990s under the influence of the neocons and "liberal interventionists," which has resulted in a systematic underinvestment in the American people while escalating tensions with Russia, China, Iran and other countries.

As Obama learned too late, the wrong person in the wrong place at the wrong time can, with a shove in the wrong direction, unleash years of intractable violence, chaos and international discord. Victoria Nuland would be a ticking time-bomb in Biden's State Department, waiting to sabotage his better angels much as she undermined Obama's second-term diplomacy.

So let's do Biden and the world a favor. Join World Beyond War , CODEPINK and dozens of other organizations opposing neocon Nuland's confirmation as a threat to peace and diplomacy. Call 202-224-3121 and tell your Senator to oppose Nuland's installation at the State Department.


John A , January 15, 2021 at 7:44 am

Nuland has also been declared persona non grata by Russia, so she would not be able to go with Biden, were he to visit Moscow. Russian foreign minister Lavrov, actually refused to shake her hand when she attended a US-Russia meeting with Kerry. She is poison to any attempt to peaceful relationships.

Susan the other , January 15, 2021 at 11:28 am

Yes, I remember that meeting clearly. Can't cite the network, but it covered her closely – body language only. I wonder where Biden stood on that act of diplomacy given his own corruption, and also what John Kerry's thinking is about now. John Kerry's stepson was in cahoots with Hunter Biden. It looked like Kerry brought her along for some rehabilitation and Lavrov was having none of it. Instead he went directly to the delegation from Ukraine and they stood in a circle all with their backs turned to Vicky who had no choice but to wander over to the coffee table and pretend she wasn't totally uncomfortable. Totally excluded. How can she recover from that?

The Rev Kev , January 15, 2021 at 9:10 am

If there is one thing that Russia hates it is fascists and that is because of the enormous damage caused by them in WW2. We call those invaders Nazis but the Russians seem to call them fascists. I sometimes wonder if it is part of their mother's milk this hatred. For people like Nuland to help topple the government of a large, bordering country like the Ukraine and install people that were literally fascists was too much for the Russians. These were fascist of a very low order that had the old 1930s routines down pat, including the torchlight parades. And there was Nuland, handing out cookies to the rioters, many of whom had been trained in rioting tactics in Poland and were being paid about $100 a day by the US if I recall correctly. Of course Nuland was not alone as there was also a Representative from the EU also handing out cookies. The only equivalent that comes to mind is a violent revolution in Canada using professional rioters and having diplomatic representatives from the Russian Federation and China handing out donuts to the rioter. I wonder what Washington would say about a stunt like that.

lyman alpha blob , January 15, 2021 at 9:32 am

Nuland is a disgusting human being. Since she is a right winger, regardless of what party may be listed on her voter ID, I don't think Bettridge's law applies here at all.

So glad all these 'woke' people put good old Uncle Joe back in office. Wonder how many realized they were supporting people being burned alive by actual Nazis in doing so?

From an actual journalist, Robert Parry – https://consortiumnews.com/2014/05/10/burning-ukraines-protesters-alive/

clarky90 , January 15, 2021 at 3:46 pm

So the USA now has literally placed, "literal fascists" in power?

Literally ..

Mark Gisleson , January 15, 2021 at 10:26 am

More war is not the answer to any of the problems facing us.

Carolinian , January 15, 2021 at 11:35 am

Thanks for this. Our "learned nothing/forgot nothing" Bourbon restoration will be led by one of the dimmer Bourbons who couldn't even set up a good grift in Ukraine without boasting about it and then angrily denying it. Should the press finally, improbably turn on him it should make for some fun news conferences. But perhaps he'll merely be moving to the White House basement from his Delaware basement.

Encephalitis Lethargica , January 15, 2021 at 12:47 pm

CFTC's budgets are also set through congressional authorization and appropriations. Yes, the CFPB is not subject to Congressional appropriations, but for good reasons. However, all financial regulation can be overturned by the Congressional Review Act.

As for the article, citation needed. Sort of a laundry heap of questionable material. Make no mistake, the Russo-Ukrainian War is a real war. Uniformed Russian armored infantry of 331st regiment of the 98th Svirsk airborne division dropped into Ukraine territory on 24 August 2014. From 25 to 27 August, Russian troops in civilian clothing, backed up by an armored column [not in disguise] took Novoazovsk. This is about Russia not being able to station 25,000 troops in Crimea as they had under Yanukovych. US troop levels in Europe have been at their lowest for the last 20 years. The US would like to [nay, needs to] keep it that way. However, the erosion of territorial integrity is a touchy subject in Europe given the lasting peace of the post-war period in a place where the wars have a pre-fix like "Hundred Years".

President Arseniy Yatsenyuk is of Jewish origin so the claims of coordination with Nazi sympathizers is dubious. Not even going to get the boycotted unconstitutional Crimean referendum.

As for WW III, Obama's defense department made it a priority to recover all the MANPADS, such as the Chinese-made FN-6 [via Qatar], Russian-made Strela-2's and Igla-S's [via Libya] from the FSA without so much as a thank you from the Russian Air Force. [Turkey, on the other hand, armed the FSA with Stinger's.] It should be noted that the Syrian conflict's death toll, in just four years, surpassed the 19-year death toll in all the Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iraq war theatres combined.

Think about this way: who needs NATO and the EU more to maintain his power structure, Joe Biden or Vladimir Putin. Isn't it clear Americans don't care, and American business does not look to compete in Russian anytime soon. The geography is wrong. But Putin must find a way to engender ethnicities who do not like the Russian Empire, who had been cleansed by Stalin. One way is to sell energy below cost to the republics and buy in back from political allies in the form of electricity. Something upon which the EU frowns. [Personally, I did not care for the way Putin early on systematically and indiscriminately starved Chechen civilians for years. It was cruel on a level unseen outside of the Rwandan genocide. More importantly, it was the Russian Federation abdicating its authority by not providing for its own citizens and not letting NGO's fill the calorie gap. I'd like to think had Putin's admin not been so wobbly the first few years, he might've let the Red Cross feed the children.]

John Steinbach , January 15, 2021 at 4:35 pm

There is overwhelming documentation of Yatsenuk's collaboration with Svboda & other fascist organizations in forming the coup government. For example: https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/analysis-u-s-cozies-kiev-government-including-far-right-n66061

Russia was never going to permit a US orchestrated coup in Ukraine without resistance. The idea that Putin needs NATO more than Biden does seems unreasonable.

steelyman , January 15, 2021 at 11:02 pm

Talking about "citations", perhaps you could supply the readership of this site with some credible citations and links for a few of the far fetched claims you're making here. Most of this comment reads like pro-Ukrainian propaganda.

Matthew G. Saroff , January 15, 2021 at 1:30 pm

I heard about Gary Gensler, Samantha Power, and Victoria Nuland, and I immediately thought, "The good, the bad, and the ugly."

Gensler surprised everyone when he was at the CFTC by doing his job, and doing it well, and his running the SEC is a good thing.

Samantha Power is an aggressive war monger, and in her position at USAID, she will likely have her fingers in regime change pie, since USAID is part of the deep state regime change apparatus..

Nuland is just a pro-Nazi nut though.

Jack Parsons , January 15, 2021 at 9:39 pm

About NATO and the Ukraine war:

I've long suspected that NATO has existed since 1991 to allow the US/EU axis to control Middle-Eastern and African resources. For example, the Rammstein military hospital is where every Gulf War soldier was airlifted for major treatment and convalescence.

Also, there is a huge international trade in opium. It's grown in Afpak and shipped out in every direction. I suspect that a fair amount of that flows through Ukraine and Crimea. If you look at a topo map of Crimea, there's a lot of seashore that could be good "smuggler's coves". Following this line of argument, Russia grabbing it from Ukraine was a gimme to Russia's gangsters. This, as well as the "Pipeline Wars", gives Russia a strong reason to encircle Ukraine.

[Dec 17, 2020] Joe Biden Warned In 2015 That Son Hunter's New Employer And Burisma Boss Was Corrupt

Dec 17, 2020 | www.zerohedge.com

In today's episode of 'Things that should have come out during the impeachment,' just-released diplomatic memos reveal that Vice President Joe Biden's office was warned in 2015 that the Ukrainian oligarch who hired his son, Hunter, was deemed corrupt - and that the US Justice Department had gathered evidence to support that conclusion, according to Just The News .

"I assume all have the DoJ background on Zlochevsky," wrote former US Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt in Kiev in a 2015 letter to Biden's top advisers, referring to Burisma Holdings founder Mykola Zlochevsky.

"The short unclas version (in non lawyer language) is that US and UK were cooperating on a case to seize his corrupt assets overseas (which had passed through the US)," Pyatt added, noting that the asset forfeiture case against the Ukrainian billionaire "fell apart" when individuals in the Ukrainian prosecutor general's office "acted to thwart the UK case."

Talking points

Pyatt's email also includes responses to several talking points Joe Biden's Washington staff crafted, should he be questioned about Hunter's role on the board of Burisma .

" Have you asked Hunter to step down from the board? Has he discussed that with you?" the talking points anticipated being asked.

" I'm not going to discuss private conversations with my family. Hunter is a private citizen and does independent work ," the memo recommended the vice president answer.

If pressed by a question asking whether Joe Biden thought "Zlochevsky is corrupt," the talking points suggested the vice president respond, "I'm not going to get into naming names or accusing individuals." - Just The News

... ... ...

The memos, released last week by Senate committees investigating Hunter Biden, also reveal that the US Justice Department was involved in the 2014 asset forfeiture brought against Zlochevsky in the UK , right as Hunter Biden was hired to sit on the board of Burisma.

Multiple State officials have attested to the awkward appearance of conflict of interest posed by Hunter's position on the board as the United States led efforts to fight corruption in Ukraine. In a September, 2015 speech, Pyatt railed against Ukrainian prosecutors for thwarting the UK asset forfeiture case against Zlochevsky.

Pyatt was recently deposed by investigators for the Senate Finance Committee and the Senate Homeland Security and Government Affairs Committee about the Ukraine controversy. Though his staff had reported an alleged Burisma bribe and believed the Bidens' conduct in Ukraine created an apparent conflict, Pyatt said he never felt compelled to raise such concerns with the vice president.

" So you never gave thought of raising a concern to the Vice President about this board position his son had? " a Senate investigator asked Pyatt during the deposition back in September.

"No," the ambassador answered. "He's the Vice President of the United States, and it would have been wildly out of place for me to raise something like that, especially insofar as it had zero impact on the work that I was doing ." - Just The News

Meanwhile, let's not forget that according to evidence from Hunter Biden's laptop published by the New York Post , Biden didn't just know about his son's business dealings in Ukraine and elsewhere, he participated in them .

And Democrats impeached Trump for asking Ukraine to investigate.


2 play_arrow

Max21c 26 minutes ago

Joe Biden Warned In 2015 That Son Hunter's New Employer And Burisma Boss Was Corrupt

This information might have been useful during the impeachment ...

But if the government secret police agencies revealed the truth to the public then how would Washingtonians have been able to push the impeachment scam as far as they did... and without the government distracted and bogged down in phony scandals and scams and lies and distortions then the swamp people might not have been able to pulloff their election fraud and seize power again. There might not even be as many dead people and as much damage to the country and its economy without the impeachment getting in the way of the pandemic response early on.

jammyjo 20 minutes ago remove link

C'mon man! Joe didn't know where his 50% was coming from.

rwe2late 40 minutes ago (Edited)

The Dems did not want a repetition of 2016 when the revelations of Hillary's misconduct helped thwart her election bid.

Thus, any exposure of Biden's misconduct and corruption was to be smothered and prevented from thwarting his election bid.

Hardly different than to stop showing the homecoming coffins and civilian casualties so that the war racket can continue.

kc_kilo 1 hour ago

Biden Crime Family

nypost.com

jpcdo028 1 hour ago

Obama is running the show and Joe will resign leaving Barack's honey pot running the country. The election was fixed by Obama, he always was the smartest guy in the room when it comes to making his dreams of destroying America come true. Obama only set people in place to destroy America and now he can blame Uncle Joe and DR of Love Jill.

walküre 1 hour ago

Barrack Hussein Robert Mugabe Obama

NoSoyBoys 59 minutes ago

Barry is too inept and lazy to have thought any of this out.

HANGTHEOWL 58 minutes ago

Obaqama is irrelevant,,,,he is just an ex puppet with no power,,,,,,this world is run by multi trillionaire Zionist bankers,,,peeon's like Obaqama are just used then disposed of,,,

walküre 1 hour ago remove link

FFS, Hunter was/is a crack head. His mind is mostly gone. He couldn't run a lemonade stand, let alone be a board member and understand the ramifications of major business decisions at foreign companies.

Hunter does not have the wherewithal to be held accountable for any white collar crimes.

Hunter's name on the documents is to conceal the identity of the real gangster, who is no other than the head of the family, the Pretender-Elect in Depends Joe Biden.

Sickening to watch how Joe obviously is allowing his own son being fed to the lions.

Man up Joe! He's your son and you're responsible!

Giant Meteor 1 hour ago remove link

The big guy is responsible for his crimes, that is to say, being the head of the crime family .. His son, being well, past the age of consent, is wholly responsible for his own crimes ..

nope-1004 1 hour ago (Edited)

Biden = Clinton = Bush = Obama = Holder = Rice = Podesta = corruption

If voting meant real change, it would be illegal.

[Nov 07, 2020] The Ukros smelling victory by their satrap Biden last night heavily attacked Donetsk, a taste of things to come.

Nov 07, 2020 | www.moonofalabama.org

Paco , Nov 6 2020 17:41 utc | 92

@ 66 arby

Yes, the earth keeps spinning no matter who "wins" the election.
Armenia, apparently the skies are clear of turkish drones with a little help from Russian EW, so the Artsakh army is deploying armor again to defend Shusha, they almost lost control of the road to their capital Stepanakert.

Another relevant piece of information, the Ukros smelling victory by their satrap Biden last night heavily attacked Donetsk, a taste of things to come.

Posted by: vk | Nov 6 2020 16:33 utc | 76

That's a good one, Evo calling for Almagro, the OAS will take care of Georgia and Pensilvania.

[Oct 25, 2020] The Ukrainians fired severl Tochka-M misshles into cities in Donbass. Kiev's Apologists Don't Think it Did Anything Wrong

How Donbass conflict started in 2014 ...
Dec 30, 2014 | marknesop.wordpress.com
Kiev's Apologists Don't Think it Did Anything Wrong. Posted on December 30, 2014 by marknesop Uncle Volodya says, "Just because evil liars stand between us and the gods and block our view of them does not mean that the bright halo that surrounds each liar is not the outer edges of a god, waiting for us to find our way around the lie.

Uncle Volodya says, "Just because evil liars
stand between us and the gods
and block our view of them
does not mean that the bright halo
that surrounds each liar
is not the outer edges of a god, waiting
for us to find our way around the lie."

The Kyiv Post has always been pretty nationalistic, and never had too much time for Russia. It has an inconsistent record on the Ukrainian oligarchy, showing occasional flashes of frankness in which it castigates the idle rich, and depressing runs of puff pieces in which it canonizes Petro Poroshenko and gnashes its teeth with righteous anger at his detractors. Several of its regular writers are activists, and their material shows it. Overall, it is the newspaper of record for Kiev's apologists, and draws a reliable audience of Russophobic Maidanites hoarsely crying "Yurrup!!!", as if it were some sort of magic answer to all their problems. But if the paper's material is often delusional, the comments section takes rollie-eyed psychosis to a whole new level. This is where you get to interact with the low-information voter, likely from a Ukrainian diaspora in North America, who buys the western propaganda line wholly and eagerly. Making any remark which appears defensive of Russia is like a red rag to a bull.

Here, every once in awhile, you run across a different kind of commenter – not just the usual "Shut your mouth, you Putin troll asswipe!!" who assumes the right to proselytize his own opinions to his heart's contentment, but will entertain no notion of a dissenting opinion without shouting that it must have been paid for by Putin and anyone who expresses such opinions is an employee of the FSB. Get it? Everyone who argues for a free and undivided Ukraine delivered whole and breathing to Yurrup and its austerity agenda is a patriot who sounds off because it's the right thing to do; everyone else is paid to lie. Occasionally, you run across a true apologist; one who is apparently not ignorant, but one who applies his/her intellect to running interference for the Kiev junta and doing battle on its behalf through insults, fabrications and assumption of a certain mantle of authority, while devising excuses for those actions by Kiev that he/she cannot explain away.

I recently did run across just such a person. Attracted to the article " Ukraine Overturns its Non-Bloc Status. What Next With NATO? " by the sheer zaniness of the Ukrainian leadership – which keeps bulling ahead with trying to referendum itself into NATO despite its ongoing border disputes so that it can immediately pull NATO into an Article 5 war with Russia – I read it, and then perused the comments.

I was moved to get involved in the discussion by a comment from Michael Caine – not the British actor, I'm pretty sure; this individual is not particularly literate but compensates with stubbornness – who seemed sincere enough, but is fixated on the idea that Russia (personified, of course, by Putin, as it is whenever it does anything the western world does not like) has broken international law by acceding to Crimea's request to join the Russian Federation. This process is invariably described in the Anglospheric press as "annexation", and we can hardly blame Michael, because high-profile chowderheads all the way up to and including President Obama have expressed the same opinion, which is completely unsubstantiated. As we have often discussed, the lifeblood of law is precedent, and a precedent was established on unilateral declarations of independence with the acceptance of that premise for the independence of Kosovo. Poland's opinion just happened to be the first I came across, written by then-Foreign-Minister Radoslaw Sikorski, and it announced smugly that a unilateral declaration of independence is outside international law and therefore unregulated by that authority. A state-in-being, saith Radek, is a matter of reality rather than law, and if you have a population which is distinct by virtue of its language, customs and cultural attributes, which has its own government, civil institutions and financial institutions, you are – or you can be – a state by way of a unilateral declaration of independence.

The Polish opinion was pivotal to the broad recognition of Kosovo, because Poland was the first East European and the first Slavic nation to recognize it. However – and this is important – not one other world opinion which supported the recognition of Kosovo challenged Poland's contention that a unilateral declaration of independence is not an instrument regulated by international law. Even The Economist , no friend of Russia and Putin, declared in advance of the vote that if Crimea chose to detach itself from Ukraine's rule, no court would be likely to challenge it, while RFE/RL – still less a friend of Russia and Putin – opined that the Budapest Memorandum (the document in which all the thunderers that Putin has broken international law vest their hopes) is a diplomatic document rather than a treaty, and while it is international law, is not enforceable . Even, if you can imagine, The Hague weighed in, expressing the legal opinion ,

"Therefore, is the Crimean Parliament vote to join the Russian Federation illegal? The answer here is no, albeit with the above clarifications and observations. Can the Crimean population legally exercise its right to external self-determination? The author is of the opinion that − on the basis of existing international case law − this question can neither be answered affirmatively or negatively."

All this went about four feet above Mr. Caine's head, because my polite request that he elaborate on specifically which international law Mr. Putin (who apparently managed the "annexation" of Crimea singlehandedly) broke received the response that Putin had violated the law that says Thou Shalt Not Steal, not to mention that other bad one, Thou Shalt Not Kill.

These are ummm not international laws. Although they apply to all observers of the Christian faith, these are Commandments, and I have yet to see a lawyer hold forth in an international court on a case in which the Book Of Authorities and Precedents is a stone tablet, although I should not speak too soon. You never know.

At about this point, The Apologist entered the fray. Under the banner of Swift69, and plainly one of the protagonists for The Budapest Memorandum, he announced that there was no unilateral declaration of independence because it was all engineered in Moscow, which allegedly is a fact that everyone admits.

In point of fact, the Crimean Parliament and City Council of Sevastopol did declare Crimea's independence, in writing ( here's the English translation ), and specifically citing the unilateral declaration of independence of Kosovo as precedent. That was actually in advance of the referendum, which asked respondents if they did or did not favour Crimea applying to join the Russian Federation. So far as I am aware nobody has admitted or otherwise affirmed in any way that Crimea's declaration of independence originated in Moscow. Russia admitted in April 2014 that it had conducted advance polling in Crimea to determine the level of support for independence, an issue which had been raised on and off since the 90's. Kind of hard to interpret that as unacceptable interference in a reality that seems to see nothing wrong with political-activist NGO's operated in Moscow and paid by American think tanks attempting to amass support for overthrowing and replacing the Russian government, what?

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Up to this point it was just an amusing academic tussle – Clash Of The References, if you will, although Swift69 actually didn't supply any. But it turned ugly from there.

I wrote, " Meanwhile Ukraine has no room at all to be preaching about international law, nor do any of its defenders. Indiscriminate attack such as firing short-range ballistic missiles into civilian population centers is a war crime. "

Swift69 replied, " Ballistic Missies"( sic ) – the word "ballistic" simply means that it is "on a ballistic trajectory." Every bullet ever fired and every grad ever launched is a "ballistic missile." While you're clearly trying to use the term to elicit sympathy based on people's association of the word n the phrase "intercontinental ballistic missile" or somesuch, it's nonsense. Use of ballistic weapons is no more a "war crime" than use of gravity is "into civilian centers." what nonsense. "Many of the shocking cases, particularly those published by the Russian media are greatly exaggerated There's no convincing evidence of mass killings or graves." – Amnesty International report."

Let's just ponder that for a moment. Swift69 is implying an equivalency between a bullet which might kill two or three people if it ricochets and hits more than its intended target, and a fucking ballistic missile which has a warhead that weighs more than half a ton (1,058 pounds). CNN reported live that U.S. officials had confirmed Ukrainian forces fired "several" Tochka-U (SS-21 Scarab) missiles "into areas controlled by pro-Russian separatists". The same source reported it could kill "dozens". The Tochka-U has a Circular Error Probability (CEP) of 160 meters. That means even in the unlikely event that you were aiming it at a cluster of 20 armed combatants – from as much as 70 km away – you could only count on the weapon landing somewhere within 160 meters of them. The Ukrainians fired them into cities in Donbass. And this shitbag is saying I merely tacked on the word "ballistic" to make it sound scary, and to win sympathy for those it was fired at which they did not really deserve. Take a look at the crater – that look like a bullet hole to you?

So, let's review. In fact, Indiscriminate Attack is a war crime, in accordance with Customary International Humanitarian Law, Rule 12. Indiscriminate Attack is defined as attack which is (a) not directed at a specific military objective, (b) employs a method or means of combat which cannot be directed at a specific military objective, or (c) employs a method or means of combat the effects of which cannot be limited as required by international humanitarian law; and consequently, in each such case, are of a nature to strike military objectives and civilians or civilian objects without distinction.

Explain to me, if you can, how you can fire a ballistic missile with a circular error probability of 160 meters (524 feet) into a city which contains both civilians and paramilitaries, and be reasonably confident you will not kill or injure any civilians, or even that you know from as far away as 70 km from the city that is your target, what you are shooting at? How are you going to limit the effects of your attack with a 1000 lb+ warhead so that it only kills military combatants?

https://c0.pubmine.com/sf/0.0.3/html/safeframe.html REPORT THIS AD REPORT THIS AD

Even the bullet Captain Sarcastic implied was also a "ballistic missile" could get you in front of a war crimes tribunal, if you just loosed off some of them into a crowd which was a composite of civilians and combatants without attempting to differentiate between the two. The weapon is not the concern – aimed shots in a scenario in which you are attempting to confine your fire to military targets is. Love of God, how hard is that to grasp?

Swift69 goes on to accuse me of sensationalizing further with the implication that the Ukrainian army is firing into civilian population centers, and proceeds to conflate that with an Amnesty International report which accused Russia of propagandizing mass graves, saying there was no credible evidence of that. The two issues have nothing to do with one another. I said the Ukrainian army is firing heavy weapons into Donbass cities at a range beyond which it can discriminate between civilian and military targets, and that considerable loss of life and tremendous damage has resulted. That is absolutely an accurate portrayal of the state of affairs .

For a grand finale, Swift69 proceeds to attack the source of an article which reports that Ukrainian forces or agents of the Ukrainian government have cut off the civilian populations of cities in eastern Ukraine from water and food and medicines in an attempt to force their surrender, and that this is also a war crime. That's a good tactic, and I use it sometimes myself – if you're not comfortable that you can refute what was said, imply the person who reported it is a lunatic. In this instance, I think there is plenty of corroborating evidence that forces acting on Kiev's direction did just what I accuse them of doing .

Kiev is committing war crimes against Ukrainian citizens with the vociferous approval of the Kyiv Post , the tacit approval of the leadership of NATO countries and the slobbering whitewash of Kiev's loony-fringe supporters. Shamelessly, right under your nose, and in the clear presence of condemnatory evidence that should have the lot of them swinging from the gibbet.

[Oct 21, 2020] Col. Brittany Stewart, Military Attach to the U.S. Embassy in Kiev and Donbass reconciliation

Such a diplomat.
Oct 21, 2020 | thenewkremlinstooge.wordpress.com

MOSCOW EXILE October 20, 2020 at 11:16 pm

Did you not see this little gem from the US Embassy in Kiev last week?

https://platform.twitter.com/embed/index.html?dnt=true&embedId=twitter-widget-13&frame=false&hideCard=false&hideThread=false&id=1316258685916573697&lang=en&origin=https%3A%2F%2Fthenewkremlinstooge.wordpress.com%2F2020%2F09%2F18%2Fthe-near-global-collapse-of-critical-thinking%2F&siteScreenName=wordpressdotcom&theme=light&widgetsVersion=ed20a2b%3A1601588405575&width=550px

The woman speaking above is a certain Col. Brittany Stewart, Military Attaché to the U.S. Embassy in Kiev. Yet another American woman doing a man's job! The Russian Ministry of Defence was none too pleased with Colonel Stewart's little performance:

16.10.2020 (14:30)
Defence Attaché to the U.S. Embassy in Moscow has been informed about the position of the Russian Ministry of Defence

On October 16, the Defence Attaché to the U.S. Embassy in Moscow was invited to the Russian Federation Ministry of Defence Main Directorate for International Military Cooperation.

The US Department of Defence representative was informed about the position of the Russian Ministry of Defence with regards to a recent statement made by the Military Attaché to the U.S. Embassy in Kiev, Air Force Col. Brittany Stewart, on the joint efforts of the US and Ukrainian Armed Forces in countering so-called "Russian aggression".

The American side was briefed on the false claims of the statement and its provocative nature, which compels the Ukrainian side to a military resolution of the internal conflict in the Donbass.

The above mentioned statement is contradictory to previous declarations made by Pentagon officials on a settlement of the situation in the Ukraine by peaceful means only.

[Edited by Moscow Exile because of grammatical and punctuation errors in the above-linked Russian -English statement, although the Russian Ministry of Defence did spell "defence" correctly! :-)]

"We congratulate the defenders of the Ukraine. Thank them for their self-sacrifice and for taking risks every day", she says in an East Slav dialect, noting that during their visit to the Ukraine, US Deputy Secretary of State Stephen Bigan and US Secretary of State Michael Pompeo had visited memorials to fallen soldiers, "because it was these soldiers who had sacrificed themselves to help protect the democracy, sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Ukraine".

"The USA is and will be your indestructible partner", emphasized the Colonel Stewart.


Have a nice day, suckers!

[Oct 19, 2020] Under Trump it especially cheats its friends, because they are the easiest marks

Notable quotes:
"... Of course the quick objection is that Turkey is getting a crap deal on every single aspect mentioned. This is especially true of Erdogan personally, whose true existential need is to win the war against the Kurds he re-started in Turkey. For instance, the US covertly helps Turkey stay in Syria but simultaneously it "supports" Rojava. And so on and so forth. Yes, the US government is a bully and cheats even its friends. Under Trump it especially cheats its friends, because they are the easiest marks. ..."
Oct 19, 2020 | www.moonofalabama.org

steven t johnson , Oct 17 2020 20:58 utc | 54

james@30 asks "what is the usa offering Turkey here??"

Offering continued intervention in Syria, de facto in alliance with Turkey, which weakens the Kurds in effect; splitting the Kurds internationally by supporting the KRG; supporting the continued partition of Cyprus; supporting the effective dismantling of NATO, a very important point re Greek relations; neutrality in Libya and the disputes over eastern Mediterranean drilling; deeming Erdogan one of the good Muslims instead of pursuing a virulent regime change campaign; no economic warfare like in Venezuela.

Of course the quick objection is that Turkey is getting a crap deal on every single aspect mentioned. This is especially true of Erdogan personally, whose true existential need is to win the war against the Kurds he re-started in Turkey. For instance, the US covertly helps Turkey stay in Syria but simultaneously it "supports" Rojava. And so on and so forth. Yes, the US government is a bully and cheats even its friends. Under Trump it especially cheats its friends, because they are the easiest marks.

The thing is, Russia cannot bring Erdogan either victory over the Kurds or a healthy economy. Nor is it clear to me that Putin has any strategy whatsoever for any endgame.

Josh , Oct 17 2020 21:36 utc | 59
https://southfront.org/betrayed-in-west-kiev-regime-tries-to-find-love-in-turkish-arms/

Wow,

Cute couple, right???

Laguerre , Oct 17 2020 21:56 utc | 62
Re Turkey. Erdogan is a megalomaniac nationalist. He is neither a servant of the US nor of Putin. He does what he thinks is in the interests of Turkey.

[Oct 18, 2020] Does This Explain Why Facebook Was So Quick To Suppress Hunter Biden Revelations- -

Oct 18, 2020 | www.zerohedge.com

Does This Explain Why Facebook Was So Quick To Suppress Hunter Biden Revelations? by Tyler Durden Sun, 10/18/2020 - 15:20 Twitter Facebook Reddit Email Print

Authored by Andrea Widburg via AmericanThinker.com,

The moment the New York Post reported on some of the sleazy, corrupt details contained on Hunter Biden's hard drive, Twitter and Facebook, the social media giants most closely connected to the way Americans exchange political information, went into overdrive to suppress the information and protect Joe Biden. In the case of Facebook, though, perhaps one of those protectors was, in fact, protecting herself.

The person currently in charge of Facebook's election integrity program is Anna Makanju . That name probably doesn't mean a lot to you, but it should mean a lot – and in a comforting way -- to Joe Biden.

Before ending up at Facebook, Makanju was a nonresident Senior Fellow at the Atlantic Council. The Atlantic Council is an ostensibly non-partisan think tank that deals with international affairs. In fact, it's a decidedly partisan organization.

In 2009, James L. Jones, the Atlantic Council's chairman left the organization to be President Obama's National Security Advisor. Susan Rice, Richard Holbrooke, Eric Shinseki, Anne-Marie Slaughter, Chuck Hagel, and Brent Scowcroft also were all affiliated with the Atlantic Council before they ended up in the Obama administration.

The Atlantic Council has received massive amounts of foreign funding over the years. Here's one that should interest everyone: Burisma Holdings donated $300,000 dollars to the Atlantic Council, over the course of three consecutive years, beginning in 2016. The information below may explain why it began paying that money to the Council.

Not only was the Atlantic Council sending people into the Obama-Biden administration, but it was also serving as an outside advisor. And that gets us back to Anna Makanju, the person heading Facebook's misleadingly titled "election integrity program."

Makanju also worked at the Atlantic Council. The following is the relevant part of Makanju's professional bio from her page at the Atlantic Council (emphasis mine):

Anna Makanju is a nonresident senior fellow with the Transatlantic Security Initiative. She is a public policy and legal expert working at Facebook, where she leads efforts to ensure election integrity on the platform. Previously, she was the special policy adviser for Europe and Eurasia to former US Vice President Joe Biden , senior policy adviser to Ambassador Samantha Power at the United States Mission to the United Nations, director for Russia at the National Security Council, and the chief of staff for European and NATO Policy in the Office of the Secretary of Defense. She has also taught at the Woodrow Wilson School at Princeton University and worked as a consultant to a leading company focused on space technologies.

about:blank

about:blank

me title=

Makanju was a player in the faux Ukraine impeachment. Early in December 2019, when the Democrats were gearing up for the impeachment, Glenn Kessler mentioned her in an article assuring Washington Post readers that, contrary to the Trump administration's claims, there was nothing corrupt about Biden's dealings with Ukraine. He made the point then that Biden now raises as a defense: Biden didn't pressure Ukraine to fire prosecutor Viktor Shokin to protect Burisma; he did it because Shokin wasn't doing his job when it came to investigating corruption.

Kessler writes that, on the same day in February 2016 that then-Ukrainian President Poroshenko announced that Shokin had offered his resignation, Biden spoke to both Poroshenko and Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk. The White House version is that Biden gave both men pep talks about reforming the government and fighting corruption. And that's where Makanju comes in:

Anna Makanju, Biden's senior policy adviser for Ukraine at the time, also listened to the calls and said release of the transcripts would only strengthen Biden's case that he acted properly. She helped Biden prepare for the conversations and said they operated at a high level, with Biden using language such as Poroshenko's government being "nation builders for a transformation of Ukraine."

A reference to a private company such as Burisma would be "too fine a level of granularity" for a call between Biden and the president of another country, Makanju told The Fact Checker. Instead, she said, the conversation focused on reforms demanded by the International Monetary Fund, methods to tackle corruption and military assistance. An investigation of "Burisma was just not significant enough" to mention, she said.

Let me remind you, in case you forgot, that Burisma started paying the Atlantic Council a lot of money in 2016, right when Makanju was advising Biden regarding getting rid of Shokin.

In other words, there's a really good chance that Sundance was correct when he wrote at The Conservative Treehouse :

NEVER MISS THE NEWS THAT MATTERS MOST

ZEROHEDGE DIRECTLY TO YOUR INBOX

Receive a daily recap featuring a curated list of must-read stories.

That's right folks, the Facebook executive currently blocking all of the negative evidence of Hunter and Joe Biden's corrupt activity in Ukraine is the same person who was coordinating the corrupt activity between the Biden family payoffs and Ukraine.

You just cannot make this stuff up folks.

The incestuous networking between Democrats in the White House, Congress, the Deep State, the media, and Big Tech never ends. That's why the American people wanted and still want Trump, the true outsider, to head the government. They know that Democrats have turned American politics into one giant Augean Stable and that Trump is the Hercules who (we hope) can clean it out.

[Oct 15, 2020] Media Again Falsely Claim That Joe Biden's Intervention In Ukraine Was Innocent

Oct 15, 2020 | www.moonofalabama.org

Moon of Alabama Brecht quote " U.S. Fails To Find Allies For Waging War On China | Main | Open Thread 2020-82 " October 15, 2020 Media Again Falsely Claim That Joe Biden's Intervention In Ukraine Was Innocent

Yesterday the New York Post posted a bombshell report related to Joe Biden's corrupt interventions in the Ukraine:

Smoking-gun email reveals how Hunter Biden introduced Ukrainian businessman to VP dad

Hunter Biden, Joe's son, was hired as lobbyist by the Ukranian gas company Burisma while his father, then Vice President of the United States, directed U.S. foreign policy with regards to the Ukraine.

Joe Biden famously ordered (vid) the Ukrainian President Poroshenko to fire his General Prosecutor Viktor Shokin. He threatened to otherwise withhold a $1 billion loan to the Ukraine. Biden's pressure to fire Shokin came ten days after Shokin had confiscated several house of Burisma owner Mykola Zlochevsky. Shokin was eventually fired, the loan to the Ukraine was released and the corruption case against Zlochevsky was buried.

Joe Biden has denied:

The emails the NY Post posted show that one of Burisma's managers thanked Hunter Biden for arranging a meeting with Joe Biden. The source of the emails is allegedly a laptop owned by Hunter Biden which was left at a repair shop.

Some Biden acolytes claim that the emails must have come from an alleged Russian hack of Burisma. But the NY Post also published private photos of Hunter Biden showing him smoking and passed out next to a crack pipe. The photos may well have been, as the Post claims, on a laptop Hunter Biden owned. It is extremely unlikely that they were hacked from Burisma severs.

The Biden campaign offered only a weak refutation of the NY Post claim that he met with the Burisma manager:

Biden's campaign would not rule out the possibility that the former VP had some kind of informal interaction with Pozharskyi, which wouldn't appear on Biden's official schedule. But they said any encounter would have been cursory.

In an unprecedented manipulative act Facebook as well as Twitter censored links to the NY Post story:

Twitter prohibited its users from posting links to the Post story, while Facebook reduced how often the story shows up in users' news feeds and elsewhere on the Facebook platform.
...
The New York Post, in an editorial responding to the companies' actions, said: "Censor first, ask questions later: It's an outrageous attitude for two of the most powerful platforms in the United States to take."
...
Facebook, the world's biggest social network, limited dissemination of the Post story within hours of its publication on Wednesday, according to a tweet by spokesman Andy Stone.

Stone cited a policy saying that Facebook can temporarily take action against content pending review by news organizations and others in its third-party fact-checking program "if we have signals that a piece of content is false."

Facebook's spokesman Andy Stone has previously worked for the Democrats:

He served as communications director for the House Majority PAC between 2012 and 2014; press secretary for Democratic California Sen. Barbara Boxer between 2011 and 2012; and press secretary for the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC) between 2009 and 2011, according to his LinkedIn profile.

Facebook's 'fact checking' is done by the shady Atlantic Council:

Max Blumenthal @MaxBlumenthal - 2:25 UTC · Oct 15, 2020

Replying to @andymstone

It seems relevant that one of Facebook's key third-party fact checkers, the Atlantic Council, is funded by Burisma - the corrupt Ukrainian gas company that paid Hunter Biden $80k a month - DC's Atlantic Council raked in funding from Hunter Biden's corruption-stained employer while courting his VP father

Following the Streisand effect the censoring of the NY Post story by Facebook and Twitter has increased the distribution of its claims.

Many outlets reported on it. However a number of these also repeated false claims that Shokin was not investigating Burisma and its owner when Joe Biden pushed for his firing.

The Washington Post's 'fact checker' Glenn Kessler claims :

[T]he Americans saw an obstacle to reform in Viktor Shokin, the top Ukrainian prosecutor, whom the United States viewed as ineffective and beholden to Poroshenko and Ukraine's corrupt oligarchs. In particular, Shokin had failed to pursue an investigation of the founder of Burisma, Mykola Zlochevsky .

The Stars and Stripes writes :

While Shokin had been investigating Burisma, a Ukrainian energy company that Hunter Biden was on the board of, the investigation had long been dormant by the time the vice president was pushing for Shokin's ouster in early 2016 , a former Ukrainian official told Bloomberg News in May 2019.

NBC News asserts :

But let's be clear: Shokin wasn't fired because of anything improper Joe Biden did, no matter how colorfully Biden recounted the tale in 2018. It's a point worth repeating, loudly, as Daniel Goldman, the former prosecutor who led the investigation for House Democrats, did on Twitter.
Daniel Goldman @danielsgoldman - 12:36 UTC · Oct 14, 2020

Let's try this one more time: the Ukrainian prosecutor was fired because he was NOT prosecuting corruption cases and there was NO Ukrainian investigation into Burisma . In addition to there being no evidence to support the bogus allegations, the basic premise is simply false.

The claim that Shokin was not investigating Burisma and its owner is evidently false. As we have pointed out several times Shokin, the prosecutor, confiscated four large houses and a luxary car of Burisma owner Mykola Zlochevsky just ten days before Joe Biden started to press for his firing.


bigger

Ukrainian media at that time reported of the confiscation on February 4 2016:

The movable and immovable property of former Minister of Ecology and Natural Resources of Ukraine Mykola Zlochevsky in Ukraine has been seized, according to the press service of the Prosecutor General's Office of Ukraine (PGO).

"The PGO filed a petition to court to arrest the property of the ex-Minister of Ecology and Natural Resources of Ukraine, the Deputy Secretary of the National Security and Defence Council of Ukraine, Mykola Zlochevsky, from which arrest was withdrawn, and other property he actually uses, namely housing estate with a total area of 922 square meters, a land plot of 0.24 hectares, a garden house with a total area of 299.8 square meters, a garden house in the territory of Vyshgorod district, a garden house of 2,312 square meters, a land plot of 0.0394 hectares, a Rolls-Royce Phantom car, a Knott 924-5014 trainer," reads the report.

The PGO clarifies that the court satisfied the petition on February 2, 2016.

Biden's call to Poroshenko during which he pressed for Shokin's firing followed on February 12 2016. At that time Burisma paid millions to the lobbying shop of Joe Biden's son.

That U.S. media continue to deny that Shokin was indeed going after Burisma's owner shortly before Joe Biden called for his firing is despicable.

Joe Biden's corrupt intervention in the Ukraine stinks to high heaven.

Similar must be said about the Biden family's shady business with Chinese companies.

Posted by b on October 15, 2020 at 15:46 UTC | Permalink


NemesisCalling , Oct 15 2020 16:07 utc | 1

FIRST!

lol

I just wanted to pop in and say to all the frothing tds-adherents among the patrons how important it is to vote for "Quid-pro-quo-Joe" this Halloween.

It is the only way we can get the first leader in U.S. history to openly flout our corruption-laws for the good of his degenerate offspring.

This is a monumental accomplishment and will help pave the way for a return of our international reputation signalling that the Federal Gov't is OPEN FOR BUSINESS! Yee-haaaaawwwwww!

Get those hard-working Trump kids the f$%@ outta there! Their noses to clean! Lol.

c1ue , Oct 15 2020 16:10 utc | 2
What is really interesting is the provenance of this proof: a water-damaged laptop dropped off at a repair shop, then never paid for nor picked up.
William Gruff , Oct 15 2020 16:11 utc | 3
More concrete evidence that the corporate mass media is bluntly lying.

Can't wait to see how our resident Democrat Party spokesdonkey and the hysterical drug witch try to spin this.

vk , Oct 15 2020 16:12 utc | 4
It's only by chance of destiny that the Democratic elite is involved with schemes of corruption in ex-USSR and ex-Yugoslavia. It just happened that both regions fell when Bill Clinton - a Democrat - was in power. As a result, everybody who was close him at the time got rich and a permanent net of contacts with those regional elites.

However, it seems the New York Post is really pro-Trump - at least in his anti-China stance. In the article titled "Emails reveal how Hunter Biden tried to cash in big on behalf of family with Chinese firm" (linked at the end of this blog's post), it is revealed at the end of the article that the firm is actually from Hong Kong, and that its contact was a Hongkonger living in a mansion in Long Island, USA, and already had a criminal record in American territory and was deported to HK. In other words, the firm has nothing to do with the Mainland and, more importantly, with the CCP.

It's not traditional for an American news outlet to use the adjective "Chinese" to designate something or someone from Hong Kong. They usually make it very clear it or he/she is "from Hong Kong". Americans and the British don't consider Hong Kong as being part of China, even today. That the New York Post suddenly decided Hong Kong is part of China is in line with Trump's campaign against Biden that he's pro-China.

R.A. , Oct 15 2020 16:15 utc | 5
Good reporting B. Keep it up.
Mike Adamson , Oct 15 2020 16:23 utc | 6
It appears Rudy G's hail mary has fallen short. Can't blame a guy for trying although it seems like a half hearted effort at best.
NemesisCalling , Oct 15 2020 16:23 utc | 7
@2 c1ue

Do you think that Hunter is the type of guy who has his ducks in a row? On the ball?? A real go-getter?

Anyone that has come out of a spiritual darkness will willingly admit how doing the simplest things in life are the hardest to manage under the influence of whatever multiple addictions the guy obviously suffers under.

Spilling water on a device is easy. Dropping it off is easy.

But I will admit I would like yo know more details about this exchange. What store, etc.?

Biswapriya Purkayast , Oct 15 2020 16:29 utc | 8
None

Of

This

Matters.


Not a single Amerikastani will choose whom to vote for on the basis of information. Amerikastani politics is tribal and Amerikastanis will vote according to the tribe they belong to, or not vote at all.

Bemildred , Oct 15 2020 16:50 utc | 9
We've got a real ethical and moral race to the bottom going on in our politics. How low can we go?
steven t johnson , Oct 15 2020 16:52 utc | 10
The probability Biden did something illegal is small. The corruption of the system is so pervasive that the son's influence peddling is legal.

The real point, that Biden is a traitor selling out to foreigners, is straight forward BS, suitable only for simpletons. Just becasue reight-wing assholes pushed similar garbage about Clinton with Benghazi/emails/Clinton Foundation doesn't make it one bit smarter. That Biden is entirely undistinguished by anything whatsoever except being chosen VP is not really contested by even his supporters. The real case for Biden is he is not Trump. That case is only refuted by showing how Trump is effective, honorable, insightful, etc. Shady slanders about treason aren't that case.

The real case against Biden is that you cannot really vote against someone, you can only vote for.

Joe , Oct 15 2020 16:54 utc | 11
What has the world come to when the NY Post has surpassed the NYT and WaPo as a reliable news source.
gottlieb , Oct 15 2020 17:01 utc | 12
Ruh-roh. I guess this is October Surprise #2, the first being the Curious Case of Trump's Covid. There was no push-back by anyone when DC was labeled a swamp of corruption. At this point 'draining the swamp' is as far away as a Kanye West presidency. We'll probably have October Surprises spurting over the landscape until Election Eve. The question of Biden corruption won't hurt as much as being caught lying about it. Will it make a difference? Yes. Trump's chance of winning just went from 10% to 17%. But with two+ weeks left, and huge early voting? We've seen two October Surprises launched by the Trump campaign. A thwarted third 'surprise' was the hope to release Barr/Durham report on the creation of Russia-gate. Barr has demurred. Will October be a one-sided affair, or are there any surprises left to spring from the Biden camp - and what if anything could possibly make a difference.
pnyx , Oct 15 2020 17:08 utc | 13
True, but... helping Tronald, B? Why would this be important now, exactly?
karlof1 , Oct 15 2020 17:10 utc | 14
As usual, there're heaps of corruption all over both factions of the Duopoly, and it worsens every election cycle. Two items caught my eyes this morning in my trip through my news feeds. Escobar's long election related article at Strategic Culture has much to chew on. Michael Klare's "Talking Tough & Carrying a Radioactive Stick" reviews the astounding number of provocations made by nuclear capable aircraft of areas surrounding Russia and China since TrumpCo's Nuclear Posture Review was done in Feb 2018.

As it stands now, I'll vote for Dario Hunter, the Progressive Party POTUS candidate as I can make no argument favoring either faction of the Duopoly.

div> neither of the two supersized warmongering bowls of crap should be within a mile of the presidency, and this is just more proof. the msm is shutting this story down just like it shuts down the assange story.

Posted by: pretzelattack , Oct 15 2020 17:14 utc | 15

neither of the two supersized warmongering bowls of crap should be within a mile of the presidency, and this is just more proof. the msm is shutting this story down just like it shuts down the assange story.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Oct 15 2020 17:14 utc | 15

Daniel Lynch , Oct 15 2020 17:16 utc | 16
B is right, as usual, but it won't matter because elections are a referendum on the ruling party, not on the challenger. And ever since Watergate, Americans assume that all politicians are crooks.
pretzelattack , Oct 15 2020 17:18 utc | 17
how about the idea that clinton, and biden are traitors pushing war with russia and making a little more on the side while pushing the real agenda. obama is slippier, no smoking guns tying that house on martha's vineyard to pushing the treasonous russiagate propaganda.
pretzelattack , Oct 15 2020 17:20 utc | 18
@9, well we haven't had a horse in the senate yet, although we have had a large number of horses' asses.
james , Oct 15 2020 17:28 utc | 19
thanks b.. i agree with your quote here
"That U.S. media continue to deny that Shokin was indeed going after Burisma's owner shortly before Joe Biden called for his firing is despicable."

@ c1ue | Oct 15 2020 16:10 utc | 2... that is only part of it... bidens direct actions are the other part...

@ steven t johnson | Oct 15 2020 16:52 utc | 10.. quote "The probability Biden did something illegal is small. " right.... believe what you want to believe then... why not admit that regardless of which party gets in power, they are both corrupt to the core?? i am always amazed at those incapable of seeing this..

Caliman , Oct 15 2020 17:34 utc | 20
The importance of voting out the current Cretin-in-Charge for the causes of basic humanity and decent governance, among many others, remains; but the Dems surely don't make it easy, do they? Out of 20+ candidates, and just like last time, they picked the one most likely corrupted and most likely vulnerable to attacks from the Repubs. It's almost as if the people who pick the candidate want someone compromised and therefore controllable, just like the current president.

Reminded again of the Douglas Adams quote from the Hitchhiker series about leaders:

"The major problem -- one of the major problems, for there are several -- one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them.

To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it.

To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."

Mao , Oct 15 2020 17:37 utc | 21
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

READ: Left-wing Radicals Post Online Guide to 'Disrupting' the Country if Election is Close https://breitbart.com/politics/2020/10/12/read-left-wing-radicals-post-online-guide-to-disrupting-the-country-if-election-is-close/ via @BreitbartNews . They know it is over for them. Law & Order will prevail, strong version!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1315833544581799936

William Gruff , Oct 15 2020 17:48 utc | 22
"Don't publish the truth if it helps Trump!"

People should look long and hard at the implications that attitude has for "journalism" .

oldhippie , Oct 15 2020 17:49 utc | 23
Talking to two "liberal" friends last week discovered they were busy taking lessons to learn Ukrainian language. Which of course barely even exists as dialect and has no national literature. But liberals are in love with Ukraine and all it stands for. Whatever Joe Biden was busy doing if it meant he was standing shoulder to shoulder with Ukrainians then all is good.

Russia bad. Repeat ten thousand times. Ukraine dpubleplusgood. No questions allowed.

dh-mtl , Oct 15 2020 17:51 utc | 24
Posted by: james | Oct 15 2020 17:28 utc | 19

'i am always amazed at those incapable of seeing this.'

Looks like there's panic at the troll farm this morning. Similar to what we're seeing from 'big tech'. Is there any connection between the two? Same bosses, maybe?

jinn , Oct 15 2020 17:52 utc | 25
"Following the Streisand effect the censoring of the NY Post story by Facebook and Twitter has increased the distribution of its claims."

That was completely predictable.

It was also predictable that the CIA blowing the whistle (a little more than a year ago) would have the effect of harming Biden's reputation far more than it hurt trump.

It was also predictable that after Biden's reputation was damaged the Democrats would double down on Biden and thus choose the only candidate (besides Hillary) that could lose to trump

I also predicted the day i heard that the CIA had blown the whistle revealing Biden's corruption to the sheeple that read and rely on the MSM that the evidence that would confirm the Biden corruption would magically appear right before the election.

I would not be surprised if more revelations about what is on Hunter's laptop are forthcoming.

jayc , Oct 15 2020 17:53 utc | 26
have to agree the "computer repair shop" angle is highly unlikely. all data is swept up and held - I assume accessing specific information is not insurmountable. The NY Post story is probably sourced to a leak - which is how it's done nowadays. Just like Trump's taxes.

Twitter/ Facebook censorship is now fact of life. this effort was result of pressure by Democrat politicians egged on by liberal intelligentsia and Dem-linked MSM (ie NY Times). The infantilization of western culture and politics is a long-term trend.

Norwegian , Oct 15 2020 18:01 utc | 27
@William Gruff | Oct 15 2020 17:48 utc | 22
"Don't publish the truth if it helps Trump!"

People should look long and hard at the implications that attitude has for "journalism".


For some people objective truth has zero value, so don't expect them to worry about those implications.
willie , Oct 15 2020 18:20 utc | 28
23# oldhippie

Maybe your "liberal" friends found themselves an interesting job in becoming trainers to ukranian nato-led groups of thugs.They move them all over the world to do some interesting sightseeing and making fun with war-savvy foreign thugs like Free Syrian Army and jihadi's and hongkong cockroaches.All in the best possible taste of MI6.In the repression of the Yellow Vests foreign speaking dressed up as French intervention teams ; armoured police with unpolicelike methods were overheard,provocateurs were filmed.People tend to forget.

Any more information available about the first days of the BLM?There was talk about pallets and piles of bricks .

Later on in Kenosha talk about several limo's unloading people,the fabulous lighting,could it have been a setup that cocked up because of a naive teenager wanting to do his best ?Are there follow-ups on those allegations or reports?

Prairie Bear , Oct 15 2020 18:24 utc | 29
@ 20 Caliman:

Well summed up. I did vote blue, ballot already mailed in receipt duly recorded at county election office, but they don't make it easy, do they? I had to do the proverbial and figurative nose-holding to do it in 2020. This year, it was more like full, level-4 hazmat prep even to vote by mail. I guess that fits with the pandemic theme, too. I wanted to turn the ballot around the same day because I didn't even want it under my roof soiling my house, but it was actually the next day when I completed and mailed it. I have never felt so dirty and disgusted about voting. I may not even be alive by 2022, but I don't know how or if I will go beyond this and vote in the midterms.

Jackrabbit , Oct 15 2020 18:33 utc | 30
October surprises (so far):
  1. Trump nominated for Nobel Peace Prize

    Despite screwing the Palestinians; occupying parts of Syria; assassinating a foreign leader; renegging on a peace agreement with North Korea; and toughening sanctions on Iran during a global pandemic.

    Trump beats Covid. USA! USA! USA!

    He didn't need to go to Walter Reed Hospital, but did so for effect. And information about his condition is tightly controlled. Did he really have it?

  2. Pelosi holds up Covid-related economic stimulus/relief for individuals

    Trump seems generous in comparison (he's not).

  3. Hunter's laptop, supposedly abandoned, is given to the FBI.

    Pundits and Pearl clutchers will look no further as it fits with the narrrative.

    <> <> <> <> <>

    The 2020 election has effectively made into a MAGA referendum. Vote Trump if you want war to save America from her internal and ex./sarc

    Both of the Deep State's Duopoly Parties want to Trump to be re-elected. TINA!

    !!

Jackrabbit , Oct 15 2020 18:34 utc | 31
October surprises (so far):
  1. Trump nominated for Nobel Peace Prize

    Despite screwing the Palestinians; occupying parts of Syria; assassinating a foreign leader; renegging on a peace agreement with North Korea; and toughening sanctions on Iran during a global pandemic.

  2. Trump beats Covid. USA! USA! USA!

    He didn't need to go to Walter Reed Hospital, but did so for effect. And information about his condition is tightly controlled. Did he really have it?

  3. Pelosi holds up Covid-related economic stimulus/relief for individuals

    Trump seems generous in comparison (he's not).

  4. Hunter's laptop, supposedly abandoned, is given to the FBI.

    Pundits and Pearl clutchers will look no further as it fits with the narrrative.

<> <> <> <> <>

The 2020 election has effectively made into a MAGA referendum. Vote Trump if you want war to save America from her internal and ex./sarc

Both of the Deep State's Duopoly Parties want to Trump to be re-elected. TINA!

!!

Jackrabbit , Oct 15 2020 18:41 utc | 32
pretzelattack @Oct15 17:14 315
msm is shutting this story down just like it shuts down the assange story.

Their supposed attempt to shut down the story has only added to the story.

VOTE TO SAVE AMERICA! (from her internal and external enemies)/sarc

!!

james , Oct 15 2020 18:53 utc | 33
@ dh-mtl | Oct 15 2020 17:51 utc | 24... big tech and same bosses - may as well be.. the boss is NSA-CIA... this attempt at narrative control is quite fascinating...

i agree with what @ jinn | Oct 15 2020 17:52 utc | 25 says... they can't control it... they just make it worse...

Jackrabbit , Oct 15 2020 19:11 utc | 34
Trump and Nobel Peace-Prize

Trump has also: supported a coup against the government of Venezuela; terminated peace treaties (including JCPOA); greatly increased defense spending ; militarized space; and sought to bomb Iran in retaliation for the downing of a US drone (Russia wouldn't allow it).

!!

pretzelattack , Oct 15 2020 19:29 utc | 35
it's not supposed jackrabbit, they aren't reporting it. blanket media silence. and the average american, i would wager, is not aware of what's going on. same playbook as iraq, with many of the same actors and all of the same corporate media.
pretzelattack , Oct 15 2020 19:33 utc | 36
i see the bootlicker brigade is back, pretending that blm and antifa is behind the violence when it is crystal clear that it is jackbooted government thug cops who murder people in broad daylight, with the support of both parties, that are kicking off the resistance. and pretending that right wing militias are not a threat. trump is going to lose due to the virus and the economy, and some of these right wing scumbags will carry out a campaign of terror attacks in response. hope there are no more ok cities.
Curmudgeon , Oct 15 2020 19:41 utc | 37
In reply to Biswapriya Purkayast | Oct 15 2020 16:29 utc | 8

Amerikastani politics is tribal and Amerikastanis will vote according to the tribe they belong to, or not vote at all.

We're a significant 'tribe' as well. Non voters are a huge block of USians who for many reasons refuse to validate the corrupt system.

According to The 100 Million Project, "...dispel outdated assumptions about non-voters. These are our fellow citizens, and they come from every walk of life. But there are some factors that unite them, which we examine in this report. By bringing to life this diverse group and their views on politics, the study acts as a clarion call to energize a new generation of engaged citizens..."

They haven't provided a decent incentive to vote.

steven t johnson , Oct 15 2020 19:50 utc | 38
james@19 quotes me for some reason. Inasmuch as I say the system, which includes both parties, is so rotten what should be corruption has been legalized, and condemn both parties for crying "treason!" against both Clinton and Trump, then the professed "amazement" that I and others don't see that both parties are corrupt means...somehow...my dismissing the latest round of this BS about how leading US politicians are traitors, traitors, traitors is wrong....implying without being so honest as to say outright, Biden really is a traitor! Like Clinton! But not like Trump! If there's anything but Trumpery there I've missed it.

Again, there is absolutely nothing good to say about Trump that isn't a pack of lies (mainly drivel about the Deep State and economic nationalism.) Neither is there anything good to say about Biden except he's not Trump. Unfortunately you cannot actually vote against Trump, you can only vote for Biden. Biden may be a blank, but any blank check voters hand him will be cashed by someone. We see here the genius of the system in full play: Most of us are effectively disenfranchised before the vote because it has been arranged that we have no one to vote for. Vote suppression, mail in ballots, all that is not even required to rig the election.

JC , Oct 15 2020 19:59 utc | 39
What nobody ever talks about is the why of Hunter Biden's association with Burisma, Devon Archer, and Stephen Kappes (former Deputy Director of the CIA). I wrote the following here at MofA 6 1/2 years ago. Its worth revisiting to put the current kerfuffle in context:
While the Hunter Biden story is definitely important, we mustn't let its sensationalist appearances override a much more important story.

One of Hunter and Joe Biden's buddies is Devon Archer -- who also was a chairman on John Kerry's presidential bid, a rich bundler with ties to the Heinz family. Devon Archer was just appointed to the board of Burisma along with Biden.

Archer's importance? He sits on the board of DiamondBack Tactics, which is a part of the military-industrial complex of corporations funded by Torch Hill -- a ready made security, weaponry, and mercenary outfit ready to roll.

And who is the Chairman of DiamondBack? None other than former CIA Deputy Chief Stephen Kappes. Kappes was the man who ran the extraordinary (and illegal) rendition program in the early-mid 2000's. He was convicted in Italy of the kidnapping of an Egyptian Muslim cleric in 2009. Kappes has had his hands in all the goings on in the middle east and eurasia for decades, running and setting up many CIA stations, including Moscow, Frankfurt, Pakistan and Pakistan.

Want to know what's going on? Follow the money -> Burisma ownership eventually leads to Privat Holdings and Ihor Kolomoyskyi. And the team of Kappes, Biden and Archer, via Burisma, ensures that U.S. oligarchical goals are being furthered. Burisma is just a shell for the CIA to operate out of.

I don't see any reason to revise my assertion that Burisma is a CIA shell company, and Hunter Biden was just assisting his dad and the CIA in its nefarious activities. And that is why the truth has been, and will continue to be buried.

Curmudgeon , Oct 15 2020 20:00 utc | 40
In reply to steven t johnson 38

"...what should be corruption has been legalized, and condemn both parties for crying "treason!" against both Clinton and Trump, then the professed "amazement" that I and others don't see that both parties are corrupt means...somehow...my dismissing the latest round of this BS about how leading US politicians are traitors, traitors, traitors is wrong....implying without being so honest as to say outright, Biden really is a traitor! Like Clinton! But not like Trump! If there's anything but Trumpery there I've missed it. "

The problem with that, charging them with corruption and treason, is we don't have a viable alternative. It's like you can't fire the help without understanding how to do what they do for yourself.

We're using a sort of containment strategy. Assuming we have to put up with corruption, we try to ensure a minimization of its effects on us.

William Gruff , Oct 15 2020 20:12 utc | 41
"...there is absolutely nothing good to say about Trump that isn't a pack of lies..."

Is it a lie to say that Trump isn't Biden?
Is it a lie to say that Trump openly and bluntly criticizes the corporate mass media?
Is it a lie to say that Trump scrapped the TPP?
Is it a lie to say that Trump ridicules identity politics and thus weakens its ability to silence critics?
Is it a lie to say that Trump is forcing the international community to critically re-examine their relationship with the American empire?

I don't think these things are lies, and I do think they are good for humanity.

Funny how Trump Derangement Syndrome victims always seem to be completely unaware of their derangement. The syndrome must create its own blind spot.

Hal Duell , Oct 15 2020 20:18 utc | 42
@ steven t johnson
"Biden may be a blank, but any blank check voters hand him will be cashed by someone."
Would that be Kamala Harris, backed by Clinton/Pelosi?
Fascinating show! Nineteen/twenty sleeps to go.
fnord , Oct 15 2020 20:55 utc | 43
Unsurprisingly the journalist responsible for the Hunter Biden nothingburger is linked to Breitbart. Breitbart-style right-wing propaganda is not even muck racking, so much as aping that style through lies and deception in order to keep their right-wing readers scared shitless of any alternative to the GOP. Older folks might remember "Bureaucrash" which similarly aped the Yes Men. I don't know if Bureaucrash is still around, but the biggest name inheritor of that kind of project is "Project Veritas" by rich kid James O'Keefe who avoided a wiretapping charge over his attempted wiretapping of Senator Mary Landrieu because one of his co-conspirators was a local attorney's son. This is not to imply guilt by association, but I am always suspicious of right-wing journalism because the milieu of right-wing journalists is devoted to their political project to the point that they're almost practicing their own idea of taqiya in their endeavors.

How much effort are we supposed to go through to connect the dots between an investigation of Burisma's former head, an apparently "cursory" interaction between that former head and Joe Biden, and Hunter Biden's presence on Burisma's board? Without evidence, are we supposed to assume - in line with a far right conspiracist narrative - that the cursory interaction was the former head of Burisma calling in a favor? Given that the investigation was centered around happenings that occurred before Hunter Biden was on the board, what benefit would Joe Biden personally have gotten from squashing the investigation?

Jackrabbit , Oct 15 2020 21:02 utc | 44
JC @Oct15 19:59 #39

Good sleuthing!

There's been plenty of suspicion that CIA was connected to Burisma but your comment essentially confirms it.

Normally Biden and his son's mistakes would be covered up/hushed up. But the Biden's are being roasted so that the Deep State can re-elect Trump.

I should dig up my old comments from years ago about Deep State wanted to elect Trump and Hillary throwing the election to Trump. (I just don't have the time right now.) It should be more clear now after what we've seen from the Democratics over the last 12 months.

!!

augusto , Oct 15 2020 21:04 utc | 45
It turns out that the MSM presstitutes usually succeed to hide the gun and wipe out the smoke.
Who will be the next domestic lobby man for teh POTUS.
Chevrus , Oct 15 2020 21:48 utc | 46
@ Caliman #20
"To summarize the summary of the summary: people are a problem"
Mark Thomason , Oct 15 2020 21:49 utc | 47
Censorship of political speech just before an election is as dangerous to democracy as anything possibly could be.

It is far more dangerous than Putin buying a few Facebook ads.

Keeping things in perspective, Democrats are willing to toss democracy, just so long as they can get power. That is exactly what they accuse Republicans of doing. And of course, Republicans would, even if this time it is Democrats doing it.

jinn , Oct 15 2020 22:06 utc | 48

pretzelattack @35

they aren't reporting it. blanket media silence. and the average american, i would wager, is not aware of what's going on.
_____________________

You would lose your wager.
WaPo is whining that everybody has to be reporting it

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/10/15/trumps-fake-new-biden-scandal-has-deeper-purpose-bannon-revealed-it/

Smith , Oct 15 2020 22:10 utc | 49
I'm more concerned about Twitter & Facebook & social media in general.

If Trump is half way comperent, he would assume direct control of them now like China does with TikTok.

Et Tu , Oct 15 2020 22:11 utc | 50
This stinks in a very familiar way to the Clinton Foundation corruption of 'pay to play' that Wikileaks published just before Trump got elected in 2016 (among the many others). A whole new dimension of corruption and collusion is emerging. The fact even Facebook and Twitter are now prepared to act so shamelessly and overtly is highly alarming, not just disgusting.

I will not at all be surprised if US voters go for another middle finger vote. Many will find it a tough choice between organised corruption or chaotic populism.

Paco , Oct 15 2020 22:32 utc | 51
Pozharsky and Burisma, and karma to the rescue but to be unnoticed by US voters. The root for Pozharsky is fire, like burnt out, and Burisma is drill, drilling, like the ineffable Sarah Palin from Alaska, from her window she could see Russia so she new a lot about the russkies, drill baby drill. So drill and fire plus Biden on tape as Satrap Major conditioning a billion buck loan on firing some functionary on a far away land. And that seems to be quite normal for the american voter. Probably that's the reason why the candidates for the election are no candidates at all. You do not have an election.
jinn , Oct 15 2020 22:51 utc | 52
There's been plenty of suspicion that CIA was connected to Burisma but your comment essentially confirms it.
_____________________________

All the oligarchs in Ukraine are connected to the CIA now. Those who refuse, they are no longer oligarchs in Ukraine.

jinn , Oct 15 2020 22:57 utc | 53
Jackrabbit @ 44:

Normally Biden and his son's mistakes would be covered up/hushed up. But the Biden's are being roasted so that the Deep State can re-elect Trump.
___________________________________________

Yes but:

A] they were never mistakes
B] nobody will go to jail
C] the Bidens will make tons of money writing books and giving speeches and being put on more corporate boards.

karlof1 , Oct 15 2020 23:04 utc | 54
Paco @51--

You're almost correct. We have an election for the two executives atop the federal government, but we don't have any real choice when it comes to candidates as those are carefully controlled, and that is the most distinctive way in which the Outlaw US Empire fails as a democratic-republic and is instead an authoritarian form of government at the federal level. This was made possible by the overthrowing of the Articles of Confederation and replacement by the 1787 Constitution which allowed for the continuation of governance by the Aristocratic Class. By the time universal suffrage was enacted after WW1, the misallocation of wealth had already allowed the Creditor Class to gain control of the federal government. That Class has maintained its control except for the short interruption by FDR. The secret for the Class's ability to stay in control is rather simple--Divide and Rule--as it also owns the methods to exert control. Much the same exists within the EU, which is why it acts in such close lockstep with the Outlaw US Empire.

The formula for the world's people to gain their freedom is rather simple: They must overthrow the Creditor Class and never allow them to gain power again by socializing all institutions. The hard part is getting the people of the planet to realize that is what's required and then going about its implementation.

james , Oct 15 2020 23:05 utc | 55
@ steven t johnson | Oct 15 2020 19:50 utc | 38.. thanks for your response... i just see both choices are bad choices for the usa.. but then i see the usa as an empire in fast decline.. maybe there is a slight difference in which one of these 2 candidates is going to take down the usa faster.. that is about it in my mind.. and fwiw i do agree with some of what @ 41 william gruff says and what all of @ 52 jinn says.. bottom line biden is no shining example of purity, not that you were implying that either.. the whole usa political system is corrupt beyond repair as i see it... i would like to be wrong too!
Richard Steven Hack , Oct 15 2020 23:27 utc | 56
Posted by: c1ue | Oct 15 2020 16:10 utc | 2 What is really interesting is the provenance of this proof: a water-damaged laptop dropped off at a repair shop, then never paid for nor picked up.

I have to say that, while I don't believe Biden is innocent of *anything*, this provenance reeks of Deep State intervention in support of Trump. OTOH, stranger things have happened in IT repair. However, since my interest is limited - translation: who gives a shit? - I'll leave it at that.

Richard Steven Hack , Oct 15 2020 23:29 utc | 57
Re Twitter and Facebook. We know the CIA helped create Google in order to do the social monitoring and control that the CIA can't do legally. Facebook ditto. Not sure about Twitter's connection to the CIA, but, hey, I'm sure it's there, too.

As an aside, Twitter is having an outage right now. My guess is too many people are posting about the Biden emails, so they shut it down for a bit. Or some hackers decided to take them down for their censorship.

Jackrabbit , Oct 16 2020 0:05 utc | 58
Richard Steven Hack @Oct15 23:27 #56

The provenance gets even more shady with Rudy Guiliani's involvment.

!!

Jackrabbit , Oct 16 2020 0:07 utc | 59
Richard Steven Hack @Oct15 23:27 #56
c1ue @Oct15 16:10 #2
What is really interesting is the provenance of this proof: a water-damaged laptop dropped off at a repair shop, then never paid for nor picked up.

The provenance gets even more shady with Rudy Guiliani's involvement.

!!

Debsisdead , Oct 16 2020 0:09 utc | 60
Anyone who imagines that these revelations will matter, just needs to read this thread where responses of amerikans all seem to fit into three equally stupid categories.

The bulk of the responses don't objectively analyse what this cesspit of greed & larceny means for their country, because the responses are first filtered through a really fucking useless partisan subjectivity. When both 'parties' have identical policies, thoroughly corrupt leadership and a primary aim of deceiving citizens WTF does this tribalist support for a particular party indicate apart from exceptional stupidity on the part of the partisan?

The people who consider themselves left of center, question, without any evidence at all to support their delusion, the provenance of the emails, when the story appears to anyone with half a brain to be both easily checkable and an entirely probable occurrence in a 2020 capitalist society.

Which brings me to the second and smallest 'cohort', the conspiracists, they not only question the provenance of the info, they in time honoured fashion drag in their favourite nemesis, the CIA, now as one who has seen all the truly foul shit that mob of criminals get up to, I'm not averse to throwing shit at those arseholes, but trying to involve those pricks in something so small-time and tacky as this is ludicrous, sheer fantasy.
It makes much more sense that the involvement of Devon Archer (a man not averse to trousering a fat wedge) and by extremely distant connection Steven Kappes, was at the insistence of old man Biden, who, far more knowledgeable about his son's predilections than anyone else, needed someone close to the action with the contacts to ensure, that if hunter-baby slipped off the rails, he could straighten things out and alert the old man.

The last group, the hee-haw "see I told you so, dems are all crooks" rightist types celebrating this disgusting revelation as they view it through their own blinkered, subjective & stupid rethug partisanship are the worst of all.

No amerikan should celebrate this, this should be a day of national shame - not just because it shows biden to be a crook, but also because in recent days, orangeutan's son in law Jared Kushner has been shown to have been perverting & corrupting the covid 19 supply chain by using federal facilities to organise & obtain much needed PPE, then inserting a few select private corporations he is acquainted with to step in collect the PPE as it arrives in amerika (on federal government funded transport), then triple (and more) the price as they sell the gear back to public health authorities.

There are no 'good guys' in any of this, both gangs are corrupt stinking low lifes, those who complain about the lack of objective news then filter all 'news' through their own subjective lens, are no less hypocritical than the types they claim to deplore.

Jen , Oct 16 2020 0:09 utc | 61
Joe @ 11:

What has the world come to when the NY Post has surpassed the NYT and WaPo as a reliable news source.

The world will soon reach that level that was satirised in "Men In Black" when Agent K (Tommy Lee Jones) advises Agent J (Will Smith) to read The National Enquirer (tabloid rag famous even here in Australia for "Two women give birth to same baby"-type headlines if only by hearsay) for "best investigative reporting on the planet".

Jackrabbit , Oct 16 2020 0:10 utc | 62
jinn @Oct15 22:57 #53
Yes but: ...

Just like Hillary (and Bill).

!!

Jackrabbit , Oct 16 2020 0:32 utc | 63
Debsisdead @Oct16 0:09 #60

the conspiracists, they not only question the provenance of the info, they in time honoured fashion drag in their favourite nemesis, the CIA, ... but trying to involve those pricks in something so small-time and tacky as this is ludicrous, sheer fantasy.

You are thinking that the info on the laptop is what's important instead of the timing of a seemingly shocking reveal that will ultimately result in no prosecutions.

=
It makes much more sense that the involvement of Devon Archer ... and by extremely distant connection Steven Kappes, was at the insistence of old man Biden, who, ... needed someone close to the action with the contacts to ensure, that if hunter-baby slipped off the rails, he could straighten things out and alert the old man.

I really don't buy the excuse that you offer (nice try, tho). It strains credibility when we can see that Biden is connected enough to what's going on without taking such extraordinary measures. And Devon's involvement is better explained by his connection to John Kerry while Kappes involvement is better explained by CIA's wanting some degree of oversight.

=
... both gangs are corrupt stinking low lifes ...

There's only one gang. It runs the Duopoly and the media. And the Empire.

!!

p>

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[Oct 15, 2020] Rudy Giuliani Promises To Share More -Private Text Messages- From -The Biden Crime Family- -

Oct 15, 2020 | www.zerohedge.com

As the furor over Twitter and Facebook's attempts to censor Wednesday morning's New York Post bombshell intensifies, Rudy Giuliani, who was named as the source of the documents in the NY Post story, just dropped a new video on Twitter where he outlines some of the alleged transgressions of "the Biden Crime Family".

Earlier, the NYP exposed never-before-publicized emails suggesting that Joe Biden's involvement with his son's business endeavors was much more active than he led the world to believe.

In other words, if the emails are genuine (and nobody has offered any credible evidence yet to suggest that they aren't) then it's clear the Biden lied about having never discussed business with his son.

In a tweet, Giuliani confirmed that he has more material that has yet to see the light of day, and teased the public that it would soon be made available on his website , which he said he launched to stop big tech from censoring the story.

... Giuliani cited Iraq, what he said was the first example of this, outlining a scheme involving a $1.5 billion contract and Biden's brother, James Biden.

The former NYC mayor continues: "The question is, why did Joe Biden lie about it? The New York Post on its front page shows that Joe Biden has been lying about Burisma for 7 years," Giuliani added, again claiming that Biden "committed a crime".

Specifically, he named Hunter Biden, James Biden, Joe Biden and Sarah Biden, along with other unnamed family members, as "the Biden Crime Family."

The "crime family" framing of course harkens back to the "Clinton Crime family", as well as Giuliani's work as a prosecutor where he famously helped break the Mafia's stranglehold on the underworld, and much of the legitimate business happening in the territories they controlled.

Now, we can't help but wonder: will Giuliani drop the Hunter Biden sex tape


ZENDOG , 4 hours ago

Wake me when someone goes to jail.

Fiscal Reality , 2 hours ago

Barr: MIA

Durham: MIA

Horowitz: MIA

MSM: MIA and Covering up

CIA: Complicit

DNC: Complicit

FBI: Complicit

Ukraine: Partner

China: Partner

Obama: Partner

Hillary: Co-conspirator.

Outcome? Nothing. A big, fat, dripping NOTHING.

OpenEyes , 2 hours ago

It's all falling down. Crumbling right before their eyes three weeks before the election that they were plotting to steal. This is just like when a dam gives way, slowly and then suddenly. And, it involves more than just the corrupt Bidens. The chain is long and goes all the way to the top. They are in the process of losing the election, and their reputations, in the court of public opinion. Next comes the courts of law.

We haven't even gotten into the Durham investigation yet. Have you noticed how quiet things have been over there? Not a single leak. That tells me that they have a serious case and a tight team.

I am long popcorn, beer and orange jumpsuits.

Md4 , 3 hours ago

"The emails obtained from Hunter Biden's hard drive reveal Joe Biden lied about Burisma, and more. Tonight I react and share a private text message that describes the ongoing schemes by the Biden Crime Family."

And that's coming from Giuliani.

A former federal prosecutor of organized crime.

This guy... knows what he's talking about...

DaveClark5 , 3 hours ago

Crooks will be crooks. What is more disguising is the sheeple that vote for them. Our founders said that the voters must have some kind of moral compass for there experiment to work. It is now in the balance.

Lyman54 , 1 hour ago

Well we are still waiting for the Weiner laptop contents to be exposed. I suppose the Biden laptop info will never see the light of day either.

Walter Melon , 3 hours ago

The old mafia prosecutors of the '70s and '80s would release a statement of something like, "We have a high level mobster admitting to crimes on an audio recording. If you know anything about this, please contact us."

And the rats would line up not knowing if it was them or someone else, to make their deal.

Giuliani remembers this.

Let's see what rats show up this week.

Stormtrooper , 4 hours ago

If the purpose of these releases is to influence the election, forget about it. Demon-rats aren't smart enough to put 2+2 together. The answer for them is 5. Or 10. Or 18. Whatever fantasy answer they want it to be. They won't be influenced by irrefutable proof that Joe Biden is dirty.

freakscene , 3 hours ago

They're not targeting "Democrats".

They're targeting those in the middle that are somehow undecided.

PT , 2 hours ago

Everything revealed in October can be safely forgotten. PizzaGate came out one week before the election. Sure, I saw the spirit-cooking video, I saw the Podesta emails ... and then it all magically disappeared. How horrific was the Anthony Weiner lap top? Sooooooooo horrific that it could be forgotten for four years and counting.

January 2016, 147 FBI agents and then what happened? Looks like the year leading up to the election (one quarter of all time) can be safely ignored too.

If they were going to trial then they would go to trial and the media releases would be about the trial. No trial? Nothing is happening.

BaNNeD oN THe RuN , 4 hours ago

It's October... color me surprised.

ImTalkinfullCs , 1 hour ago

This is disqualifying......

bobroonie , 1 hour ago

Not in our Feudal society.

SmokeyBlonde , 43 minutes ago

This is a resume-enhancer for all D's and establishment R's, aka The Uniparty.

Yog Soggoth , 1 hour ago

I have been extremely critical of Guliani in the past, mostly 9/11 related, but his common sense videos are just that, with excellent guests. NYC wishes they had Rudy back.

Saturn2001 , 1 hour ago

The problem is that the hardcore demonkrats and more importantly the press, will stifle this whole set of facts and defend these lying/thieving creatures. We've seen it before. We even have the likes of piggy noonan of the Wall Street Journal suggesting that electing Biden would be a return to normal. Normal thieving, destroying deep state skum. They have done so much harm to the United States and to the world.

Son of Loki , 1 hour ago

Trump has a way with words:

Donald Trump: 'The Bidens Got Rich While Americans Got Robbed'

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/10/14/donald-trump-the-bidens-got-rich-while-americans-got-robbed/

The president cited the bombshell New York Post story uncovering emails sent from Vadym Pozharskyi, an adviser to Ukrainian energy company Burisma, to Hunter Biden, thanking him for helping arrange a meeting with his father.

Hunter Biden received between $50,000 and $83,000 a month from Burisma to sit on the board.

"The Biden family treated the vice presidency as a for-profit corporation flying around the globe collecting millions of dollars from China and Ukraine and Russia and other countries," Trump said.

Yog Soggoth , 1 hour ago

They threatened to not give the money to Ukraine. That money was USAID money allocated by vote from Congress taken from American taxpayers. Burisma got it's cut which laundered back to Bidens. Many laws were broken.

philmannwright , 26 minutes ago

The funny part is that whatever Joe did for his kids, is likely NOTHING compared to the hundreds of millions of dollars that Hillary took for access to herself, and that is only what we know about during the Clinton Family's federal reign of self-enrichment from 1992-2016... never mind whitewater.

chemcounter , 2 hours ago

Trump needs to execute prosecution on Hillary. You see, these people get away with enriching themselves and when they are caught, the opposition tries to hold it over their heads to keep them inactive politically. Instead, they lay low and then come out later executing well laid plans then use the reasoning that they must be innocent of all the accusations or someone would have prosecuted. The people are sick of the obvious dual class criminal justice system.

[Oct 15, 2020] 'Censorship Rubicon'- Big Tech burying Biden-Ukraine story either wakes up Republicans or drives nail in their political coffin -- RT Op-ed

Oct 15, 2020 | www.rt.com

'Censorship Rubicon'? Big Tech burying Biden-Ukraine story either wakes up Republicans or drives nail in their political coffin 15 Oct, 2020 00:45 / Updated 3 hours ago Get short URL 'Censorship Rubicon'? Big Tech burying Biden-Ukraine story either wakes up Republicans or drives nail in their political coffin FILE PHOTOS. © Reuters / Tom Brenner ; Reuters / Jon Nazca 18 Follow RT on RT

By Tony Cox , a US journalist who has written or edited for Bloomberg and several major daily newspapers. If Big Tech's latest censorship fiasco – the suppression of a New York Post scoop that might harm Joe Biden's presidential campaign – doesn't spur Republicans to act, they may as well quit pretending to represent their voters.

If even this isn't enough to trigger so-called conservatives to loosen Silicon Valley's death grip on America's public marketplace of ideas, nothing will. All the talk about defending free speech and fighting election interference will be exposed for the meaningless posturing that it is, much like all those years of hearing Republicans campaign on stopping illegal immigration, which they had no intention of doing.

In this case, however, the stakes are more personal for Republican politicians. This isn't only about throwing their constituents under the bus and giving lip service about political bias while taking donations from the likes of Google and Amazon. This time, the bus is about to run over them and leave tread-marks on their former careers in Washington.

ALSO ON RT.COM Twitter BLOCKS sharing links to NYPost's Hunter Biden emails story, invoking 'HACKED MATERIALS' policy for first time ever

When the flow of news and information is controlled on political grounds to the extent it was on Wednesday, it can only lead to irreversible one-party dominance. And here's a hint for the likes of Representative Jim Jordan (R-Ohio): Google may give you money, but as the late George Carlin said, "It's a big club, and you ain't in it." That one party's name will start with a "D."

The Post article alleged that Biden's son, Hunter Biden, received an email in 2015 from an executive at Ukrainian energy firm Burisma, thanking him for arranging a meeting with then-Vice President Joe Biden. The alleged meeting with the executive, Vadym Pozharskyi, occurred about a year after Hunter Biden joined Burisma's board at a reported salary of up to $50,000 a month.

If the meeting was arranged by the younger Biden and took place as Pozharskyi said, it would belie Joe Biden's previous statements that he had never spoken to his son about his overseas business dealings.

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The Biden campaign said no record of such a meeting appeared on the vice president's "official schedules," but as Senator Josh Hawley (R-Missouri) pointed out, it didn't deny the veracity of the emails on which the article was based.

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Nevertheless, Facebook rushed to curtail the story's exposure. Company spokesman Andy Stone, who previously worked for two Democrat lawmakers and two Democrat campaign groups, announced that Facebook would reduce distribution of the article as part of a " standard process " to reduce spreading of "misinformation" and might do a fact-check of the story. He didn't say why the article was considered a misinformation threat.

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The next shoe dropped with Twitter, which blocked its users from tweeting links to the story or sending it in direct messages. Those who tried to spread the article got an error message saying the message couldn't be sent because it was identified as "potentially harmful."

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Conservative observers, such as Toby Young, joked that the article was "potentially harmful" only to Biden's campaign, but the damage was done. As in the case of Facebook, Twitter didn't make a case for the article being false, but the company said that in addition to concern over potential disinformation, the article was blocked "in line with our hacked materials policy" and a lack of authoritative reporting on where the source material originated.

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The emails weren't hacked; rather, the Post said they were taken off a computer that Hunter Biden left at a repair shop in Delaware. In any case, the various policy explanations were excuses for censoring content that probably would have been gleefully allowed by social media platforms if the article had instead said Donald Trump Jr. was selling access to the White House.

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Social-media giants are censoring the article because they favor Biden over Trump, and they figure no one will stop them. Mainstream media outlets are cheering on the decision because they, too, favor Biden and have no principles regarding free speech or good journalism. Before Twitter did the job for him, MSNBC producer Kyle Griffin warned that no one should be linking or sharing the Post article because they could discuss its flaws "without amplifying what appears to be misinformation."

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Like Facebook and Twitter, Griffin didn't need to explain how he knew the article was disinformation. Nor did he show the least bit of self-awareness about the media's spreading of disinformation over the past four years. Adam Jentleson, a staffer for former Senator Harry Reid, even pretended to know that the article was not only disinformation, but also the work of a "Russian propaganda campaign." Again, no explanation or facts needed.

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Twitter also locked out the Post's account, as well as those of people who shared the story, among them actor James Woods and White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany.

READ MORE: 'Repeal section 230!' Trump comments on Twitter, Facebook censoring story about Hunter Biden

Conservative and independent commentators, such as Federalist co-founder Sean Davis and journalist Glenn Greenwald, saw the obvious importance and implications of Wednesday's censorship effort. Rarely is social media discussion as dominated by one topic as it was by the reaction to the Biden story.

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The danger is that all the talk just fades away and the debacle is chalked up as just another example of anti-conservative censorship and bias. There will likely never be a better poster child to expose Big Tech's criteria for which news gets covered up and which news gets promoted: If it reflects poorly on Democrats, it's disinformation, and if it makes Republicans (especially Trump) look bad, it's golden.

https://platform.twitter.com/embed/index.html?creatorScreenName=RT_com&dnt=false&embedId=twitter-widget-13&frame=false&hideCard=false&hideThread=false&id=1316464323984752641&lang=en&origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rt.com%2Fop-ed%2F503541-tech-censorship-biden-story%2F&siteScreenName=RT_com&theme=light&widgetsVersion=ed20a2b%3A1601588405575&width=550px

As conservative author Mike Cernovich pointed out, "the censorship Rubicon was crossed." Unless the talk finally becomes action, there's no point in continuing the conversation.

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[Oct 14, 2020] Paper publishes compromising files on Biden's son Hunter, suggesting he peddled influence in Ukraine showing him 'smoking crack' -- RT USA News

Oct 14, 2020 | www.rt.com

Home USA News Paper publishes compromising files on Biden's son Hunter, suggesting he peddled influence in Ukraine & showing him 'smoking crack' 14 Oct, 2020 16:31 / Updated 52 minutes ago Get short URL Paper publishes compromising files on Biden's son Hunter, suggesting he peddled influence in Ukraine & showing him 'smoking crack' Joe Biden and his son Hunterattend an NCAA basketball game in Washington, DC, January 30, 2010 © Reuters / Jonathan Ernst 44 Follow RT on RT Emails obtained by the New York Post suggest that Hunter Biden introduced a Ukrainian energy boss to his father, then-vice president Joe Biden. The former VP has insisted he knew nothing about his son's dodgy dealings.

A year after Hunter Biden joined the board of Ukrainian energy firm Burisma in 2014, the then-vice president's son's family connections apparently paid off – at least that's what the latest materials obtained by the New York Post claim to show. In a 2015 email published on Wednesday, Burisma adviser Vadym Pozharskyi thanked Hunter for an invitation to Washington, and for the "honor and pleasure" of meeting Joe Biden.

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No details of the meeting are revealed, but a 2014 email between Pozharskyi reportedly shows the Burisma executive asking Hunter for "advice on how you could use your influence" to thwart a government investigation into the company, which hired him that year for a reported monthly salary of $50,000, despite Hunter's lack of experience in the energy sector.

Joe Biden has repeatedly denied any knowledge of his son's foreign business dealings, and has responded angrily when accused of peddling influence. Confronted by a voter at a town hall event last December, the Democratic nominee called the voter a "damn liar" and "fat." Pressed by President Donald Trump in last month's presidential debate, Biden replied that his son "did nothing wrong" at Burisma, and Joe has insisted since last year that he was uninvolved in Hunter's work.

The emails seem to tell a different story. They do not, however, provide any more evidence that Hunter asked his father to have a Ukrainian prosecutor fired for investigating the firm, as President Trump and his allies have repeatedly claimed.

ALSO ON RT.COM Hunter Biden's conflict of interest silenced by 'fake mainstream media', but Trump's own people are in on cover-up

Joe Biden himself has claimed responsibility for the firing though, telling the Council on Foreign Relations in 2018 "I looked at them and said: I'm leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting the money," referring to a billion-dollar Obama administration aid package to Ukraine. "Well, son of a bitch," he quipped then, "he got fired."

Biden's supporters in the media have insisted that the former VP was just one of many international voices calling for the prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, to be fired for corruption, and that Shokin's investigation into Burisma had gone "dormant." Shokin himself told ABC News that he had six investigations into the company open at the time of his ouster.

Coming so close to next month's election, the timing of the New York Post's article has raised some eyebrows. According to the Post, the emails came from a laptop handed in to a repair shop in Delaware by an unnamed customer last April. When the store owner realized the laptop contained Hunter Biden's emails and photos, he alerted federal authorities, who seized it in December. However, the owner copied the hard drive's contents and gave them to Rudy Giuliani, President Trump's lawyer.

ALSO ON RT.COM Conflict of interest? Biden's son-in-law advises campaign on Covid while profiting from health firms, Politico reports

Curiously, among the photos obtained by the Post is a bill for computer repair work made out to "Hunter Biden," despite the store owner not knowing who the customer was.

Also among these photos are seemingly incriminating shots of Hunter asleep with what appears to be a crack pipe in his mouth, and according to the Post, a video of Hunter smoking crack while having sex with an "unidentified woman." Hunter Biden's struggle with drug addiction is well documented, and he has been to rehab at least six times. Joe Biden has claimed that he's overcome his addiction.

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With just three weeks to go until the presidential election, Giuliani himself promised on Wednesday that he had "much more to come." Asked by Los Angeles Times reporter Chris Megerian what this might mean, Giuliani reportedly responded : "Print a headline saying 'Lyin' Joe' and we can talk."

Joe Biden's campaign responded to the report later on Wednesday, with spokesman Andrew Bates saying that "no meeting, as alleged by the New York Post, ever took place." Bates did not, however, deny that the photo of Hunter with the crack pipe in his mouth was genuine.

[Oct 11, 2020] Sen Johnson on Hunter Biden report- I think we've caught Biden in a lie - YouTube

Oct 11, 2020 | www.youtube.com


Fox Business
1.24M subscribers SUBSCRIBE Senator Ron Johnson (R-WI) weighs in on the GOP report on Hunter Biden's financial ties in Europe and China. Subscribe to Fox Business! https://bit.ly/2D9Cdse Watch more Fox Business Video: https://video.foxbusiness.com Watch Fox Business Network Live: http://www.foxnewsgo.com/ FOX Business Network (FBN) is a financial news channel delivering real-time information across all platforms that impact both Main Street and Wall Street. Headquartered in New York -- the business capital of the world -- FBN launched in October 2007 and is one of the leading business networks on television, having topped CNBC in Business Day viewers for the second consecutive year in 2018. The network is available in nearly 80 million homes in all markets across the United States. Owned by FOX Corporation, FBN is a unit of FOX News Media and has bureaus in Chicago, Los Angeles, and Washington, D.C. Watch full episodes of FBN Primetime shows Lou Dobbs Tonight: https://video.foxbusiness.com/playlis... Kennedy: https://video.foxbusiness.com/playlis... Follow Fox Business on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/FoxBusiness Follow Fox Business on Twitter: https://twitter.com/foxbusiness Follow Fox Business on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/foxbusiness SHOW MORE 16,467 Comments SORT BY Commenting publicly as Nikolai Bezroukov


Jeff Wedwick , 2 weeks ago

Joe Biden has been lying and stealing from the American people for 47 years, and now all of a sudden you act surprised about this. Ridiculous

Rick Cech , 6 days ago

All Joe Biden will do is deny deny deny deny and say it's a "dam lie".


Desertrose
, 1 week ago

They also need to investigate Nancy Pelosi's son Paul, Jr. and his wrong doings that has gone unnoticed!

Frank D. Long , 1 week ago

Hunter Biden is a punk like his dad.The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Paora G , 1 week ago

The Biden's, Pelosis, Schifts have been corrupt so long they didn't notice that the internet means we can see their bribes and kick backs!

[Oct 10, 2020] President Zelensky must speak Ukrainian, but only while conducting his 'constitutional' duties, Kiev's Supreme Court rules -- RT Russia Former Soviet Union

Oct 10, 2020 | www.rt.com

President Zelensky must speak Ukrainian, but only while conducting his 'constitutional' duties, Kiev's Supreme Court rules 10 Oct, 2020 10:55 / Updated 5 hours ago Get short URL President Zelensky must speak Ukrainian, but only while conducting his 'constitutional' duties, Kiev's Supreme Court rules Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky gives a press conference at the end of an EU-Ukraine Summit at the European Council in Brussels, Belgium, October 6, 2020. © Reuters/Stephanie Lecocq 21 Follow RT on RT Ukraine's top court has ruled that Volodymyr Zelensky must only use the country's state language when exercising his official duties as president, after a citizen claimed he broke the law by speaking Russian at a public event.

The legal case was set in motion after a citizen filed a complaint against Zelensky for delivering a speech in Russian at an IT-themed forum in Kiev in May 2019. The person asked the Supreme Court to rule that Zelensky had broken the law by not using Ukrainian – the country's sole official language, according to the constitution – while exercising his presidential duties.

Zelensky is a native Russian-speaker, from the industrial city of Krivoy Rog, and like most Ukrainians of his generation, outside of the West of the country, he would have had little exposure to the native tongue as a child.

The court initially dismissed the claim, but an appeal was then launched. On Friday, the Supreme Court's Grand Chamber ruled that "the president of Ukraine must use the state language [Ukrainian] when carrying out his official duties."

However, the court clarified that the president is only subject to legal liability for actions undertaken "when carrying out his constitutional duties." In other cases, it only constitutes a "political" responsibility. The case was therefore closed, as "the plaintiff's claims are not subject to consideration in the administrative procedure."

In 2019, the parliament adopted a bill that made the use of Ukrainian mandatory by state officials and in the public sphere. The bill was signed into law by the outgoing president, Petro Poroshenko, when Zelensky was still president-elect. At the time, many observers felt Poroshenko made the move to make life difficult for the incoming leader, given his preference for the use of Russian.

ALSO ON RT.COM EU says ruling Ukrainian party 'knee-deep' in corruption: MEPs threaten Kiev with cuts to financial aid & visa-free travel

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[Sep 24, 2020] Senate Probe -- John Kerry Falsely Claimed He Had No Knowledge of Hunter Biden s Role in Burisma by ZACHARY EVANS

Sep 23, 2020 | www.nationalreview.com

Former Secretary of State John Kerry falsely claimed in 2019 that he had no knowledge of Hunter Biden's role on the board of Burisma Holdings, Inc., according to the Senate report on Biden's financial dealings released on Wednesday.

Kerry was asked by a reporter from NBC News on December 8, 2019, whether he knew of Hunter Biden's activities during his tenure as secretary of state in the Obama administration from 2013-2017. Biden From 2014-2019 held a seat on the board of Burisma, a Ukrainian natural gas company whose former head and founder Mykola Zlochevsky is suspected of bribery and various other crimes. (Zlochevsky's whereabouts are currently unknown.)

Vice president Joe Biden led the Obama administration's Ukraine policy after Russia's 2014 annexation of the Crimean peninsula and subsequent war in eastern Ukraine. Hunter Biden's position at Burisma led American officials to worry about the appearance of a conflict of interest in their Ukraine policy.

" I had no knowledge about any of that. None. No," Kerry told the reporter regarding Biden's position on the Burisma board. "What would I know about any -- no. Why would I know about any company or any individual? No."

However, Kerry's former chief of staff David Wade testified to the Senate Homeland Security Committee that he informed Kerry personally of Biden's role at Burisma. Wade received an email on May 13, 2014, from Kerry's stepson, Chris Heinz, telling him that Hunter Biden and associate Devon Archer had joined Burisma.

Additionally, former Kerry adviser David Thorne told Wade on May 14, 2014, that he had forwarded news articles on Hunter Biden's Burisma position directly to Kerry himself, according to emails uncovered by the Senate committee. The emails included links to serveral articles, including one titled "White House says no issue with Biden's son, Ukraine gas company."

[Sep 24, 2020] Lindsey Graham s Rudy Giuliani Invitation -- Ukraine Corruption Testimony

Notable quotes:
"... Giuliani has repeatedly alleged that former vice president Joe Biden and his son Hunter Biden were involved in corrupt practices in Ukraine. ..."
Sep 24, 2020 | www.nationalreview.com

Senator Lindsey Graham has invited Rudy Giuliani, President Trump's private attorney, to testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee regarding alleged corruption in Ukraine.

Graham wrote on Twitter Tuesday that after hearing about "the many improprieties surrounding the firing of former [Ukrainian] Prosecutor General Victor Shokin," he would give Giuliani "the opportunity to come before the Senate Judiciary Committee to inform the committee of his concerns."

Giuliani has repeatedly alleged that former vice president Joe Biden and his son Hunter Biden were involved in corrupt practices in Ukraine.

Hunter Biden sat on the board of a Ukrainian natural gas company from 2014 to 2019. The company, Burisma Holdings, was the subject of a corruption probe led by Shokin, who was then prosecutor general of Ukraine.

In 2016, Joe Biden pressured Ukraine to fire Shokin at the urging of U.S. and European Union officials, who agreed that Shokin was himself engaged in corrupt practices.

Graham had initially refused to take any action in the Senate regarding Hunter Biden's dealings in Ukraine, saying earlier this month, "I want somebody to look at the conflict of interest outside of politics."

Graham's offer to Giuliani could set up a conflict between the Senate and House of Representatives, the latter of which has summoned numerous Trump administration officials to answer questions regarding the impeachment probe.

[Sep 24, 2020] Hunter Biden- Senate Report Details Extensive Foreign Business Dealings

Cocaine is a very expensive habit...
Sep 24, 2020 | www.nationalreview.com

"The Treasury records acquired by the Chairmen show potential criminal activity relating to transactions among and between Hunter Biden, his family, and his associates with Ukrainian, Russian, Kazakh and Chinese nationals," the report reads. "In particular, these documents show that Hunter Biden received millions of dollars from foreign sources as a result of business relationships that he built during the period when his father was vice president of the United States and after."

That Hunter Biden served on the board of the Ukrainian gas company Burisma Holdings while his father was leading the Obama administration's efforts in Ukraine is well-established, but the $50,000-per-month board seat was just one component of the younger Biden's foreign ventures during the Obama years. According to Treasury Department records obtained by the committee, he also pursued business dealings with politically-connected Russian, Chinese, and Kazakh nationals.

In the course of his globe-trotting business career, Hunter Biden racked up more than $4 million in "questionable financial transactions" with well-connected foreigners. He partnered with Chinese businessmen connected to the Chinese Communist Party and the People's Liberation Army, he took cash from the wife of the corrupt former mayor of Moscow, and he sent funds to Ukrainian and Russian nationals living in the U.S. that are "linked to what 'appears to be an Eastern European prostitution or human trafficking ring,'" according to the report.

But it was only Hunter's work for Burisma that caught the attention of Obama administration State Department officials, who said the role created "counterintelligence and extortion concerns."

Acting Deputy Chief of Mission at the U.S. Embassy in Kyiv, Ukraine, George Kent warned Vice President Joe Biden's office in early 2015 that Hunter's work for Burisma undermined the administrations' anti-corruption efforts in the country, since the gas company's owner Mykola Zlochevsky, who Kent described as an "odious oligarch" in his testimony, is famously corrupt.

"Furthermore, the presence of Hunter Biden on the Burisma board was very awkward for all U.S. officials pushing an anticorruption agenda in Ukraine," Kent wrote in an email to his colleagues in 2016.

Kent told Joe Biden's staff that "someone needed to talk to Hunter Biden, and he should [step] down from the board of Burisma," according to the report. But it doesn't appear Kent's request was carried out, since Hunter remained on the board throughout the rest of Obama's term.

U.S. Special Envoy and Coordinator for International Energy Affairs Amos Hochstein also raised concerns about Hunter's work for Burisma with the vice president. But his complaints went unaddressed, according to the report.

"This investigation has illustrated the extent to which officials within the Obama administration ignored the glaring warning signs when the vice president's son joined the board of a company owned by a corrupt Ukrainian oligarch," the report's executive summary stated.

While concerns over Hunter's business dealings in Ukraine didn't prompt any decisive action from the administration, they did reach the desk of Secretary of State John Kerry, contradicting his later claim that he was never aware that Hunter served on the Burisma board.

The day after Hunter joined the Burisma board in May 2014, Kerry's stepson Christopher Heinz, who was a business partner of Hunter's, emailed his father to inform him of Hunter's appointment to the board and to distance himself from the decision. Kerry's staff followed up with a briefing on the press inquiries prompted by Hunter's board seat, according to their testimony before the committees.

Neither Kerry nor anyone else in the administration appears to have intervened to put a stop to the younger Biden's influence peddling.

When asked by a reporter in 2019 whether he had any knowledge of Hunter's work for Burisma, Kerry responded "I had no knowledge about any of that. None. No."

Russia

Hunter Biden and his business partner Devon Archer joined with Heinz in 2009 to form the investment firm Rosemont Seneca. They then spun off a number of shell companies to accept funds from wealthy and politically-connected clients willing to pay for their "corporate and governmental affairs" expertise.

One such client was Elena Baturina, wife of former Moscow mayor Yuri Luzhkov, who was fired in 2010 by then-Russian president Dmitry Medvedev over corruption allegations. Baturina became Russia's first female billionaire after her plastics company received a number of lucrative public contracts with the city of Moscow while her husband was mayor.

"Luzhkov used his position as mayor to approve over 20 real estate projects that were built by a Baturina-owned construction company and ultimately generated multibillion-ruble profits for his family," according to the report.

In February 2014, Baturina wired $3.5 million as part of a "consultancy agreement" to Rosemont Seneca Thornton LLC -- a consortium consisting of Biden and Archer's Rosemont Seneca and a Massachusetts-based company with offices in Beijing known as Thornton LLC.

Then, between May and December 2015 Baturina wired another $391,968.21 to an account linked to a company called BAK USA, a Buffalo, N.Y., based start up that manufactured tablet computers with the backing of unidentified Chinese investors. The majority of that nearly $400,000, totaling $241,797.14, flowed through the Rosemont Seneca Thornton account before arriving in the BAK USA account.

Kazakhstan

On April 22, 2014, as Joe Biden joined Prime Minister Arsemy Yasenyuk in Kyiv to speak with Ukrainian lawmakers about the recent Russian aggression in Crimea, a holding company owned by the son-in-law of a prominent Khazak politician wired Archer $142,300 through yet another shell company, Rosemont Seneca Bohai. A currency report obtained by the committee states that the payment was "For a Car."

The holding company that purchased Archer a car is owned solely by Kenges Rakishev, the son-in-law of Imangali Tasmagambetov, who was then serving as the mayor of Kazakhstan's capital city, Astana. Tasmagambetov, who himself previously served as prime minister of Kazakhstan, was reportedly a close confidant of then Kazahk president Nursultan Nazarbayev. It is unclear why, exactly, Archer was purchased a car, but Kazakhstan was in flux politically at the time due to dissension over how to respond to Russia's provocation in Ukraine.

"Given Rakishev's close connection to political leadership in Kazakhstan, the tense political situation, Hunter Biden's longstanding relationship with Archer and involvement in transactions with Rosemont Seneca Bohai, and the fact that the payment was timed perfectly with Vice President Biden's visit to Kyiv to discuss U.S. sanctions against Russia for the invasion of Crimea, the April 22, 2014 payment from Rakishev to Rosemont Seneca Bohai raises serious questions," the report reads.

China

In order to sell their consulting services in China, Biden and Archer partnered with a Boston-based firm known as Thornton LLC. The firm advertises itself as "a cross-border capital intermediary" and counts a number of state-owned Chinese businesses among its clients, according to its website.

Through Thornton LLC, Hunter Biden and Archer formed business relationships with a number of wealth Chinese nationals who have connections the CCP and the People's Liberation Army.

Many of Hunter Biden's Chinese dealings flowed through Ye Jianming, the founder of CEFC China Energy Co. Ltd, a Chinese energy company that reported in excess of $33 billion in revenue in 2013. The company was acquired by the state in 2017 but even before that it "hired a number of former top officials from state owned energy companies" and had "layers of Communist Party committees across its subsidiaries -- more than at many private Chinese companies," according to Reuters.

Through Jianming's company, Hunter Biden was introduced to the CCP elite and those businessmen who operate with their blessing.

Pictures from an April 2010 event in China posted by the Thornton Group show Biden standing alongside the general manager of the China Investment Corporation, the vice president of the China Life Asset Management Company, the general manager of the Postal Savings Bank, among other Chinese business tycoons.

Hunter Biden and Archer capitalized on those connections some two years later by partnering with Jonathan Li the CEO of the Chinese investment firm Bohai Capital, to form BHR, an investment firm specializing in connecting wealthy Chinese investors, and state entities, with overseas business opportunities. The Chinese government's postal savings bank, its main development bank, and The Bank of China all invested in BHR. Months before the investors signed the documents committing to the fund, Hunter arranged for his father to meet Li briefly in the lobby of a Beijing hotel they were staying in after flying to China on Air Force II.

Hunter initially joined the BHR board in an unsalaried capacity but ultimately acquired a 10 percent stake in the company in 2017.

Ye's relationships were not confined to China's business elite, he also had extensive connections to high-ranking members of the People's Liberation Army, including one of the country's leading propagandists, Wang Shu, the CEO of the China Huayi Broadcasting. While Ye was rubbing shoulders with Beijing's elite, Hunter was busy trying to solicit American investment in his firm.

A subsidiary of Ye's company wired $100,000 to Biden's law firm, Owasco, in August 2017. And, one month later, on the day that Ye's firm announced it would acquire a $9.1 billion deal in the Russian oil company Rosneft, Hunter filed for a $100,000 line of credit with one of Ye's business partners. Hunter, his uncle James, and James's wife Sarah were all authorized as credit card users on the account. The foursome went on a spending spree, buying airline tickets, stays at expensive hotels, and meals at top restaurants.

Ye's company would eventually funnel $4.8 million to Biden's law firm over the following year.

Joe Biden's spokesman, Andrew Bates, suggested the entire investigation was a partisan distraction in response to the report.

"As the coronavirus death toll climbs and Wisconsinites struggle with joblessness, Ron Johnson has wasted months diverting the Senate Homeland Security & Governmental Affairs Committee away from any oversight of the catastrophically botched federal response to the pandemic, a threat Sen. Johnson has dismissed by saying that 'death is an unavoidable part of life.' Why? To subsidize a foreign attack against the sovereignty of our elections with taxpayer dollars -- an attack founded on a long-disproven, hardcore rightwing conspiracy theory that hinges on Sen. Johnson himself being corrupt and that the Senator has now explicitly stated he is attempting to exploit to bail out Donald Trump's re-election campaign," Bates said in a statement Wednesday.

Republican Senator Mitt Romney expressed a similar sentiment before the report came out, calling the investigation a "political exercise" that fell outside the "legitimate role of government."

231 Homeland Security Committee chairman Ron Johnson, (R., Wis.), and Finance Committee chairman Chuck Grassley, (R., Iowa), said they "faced many obstacles" in their probe and added that "there remains much work to be done."

[Sep 21, 2020] Swamp Watch- The Bidens and Ukraine

Sep 21, 2020 | www.youtube.com


Lawney Malbrough , 9 months ago

And the fact that Hunter was being paid 55k monthly means that Old Joe was paying his son with our tax dollars!


Sharon Webb
, 9 months ago

Pelosi has a son on a ukrane energy board

ron brock , 8 months ago

if your a politician and start out broke, and become a millionaire while in office, you should be investigated.


David Price
, 9 months ago

They should all have their assets taken off them and return it to the US treasury and then thrown them all in jail and throw away the key.

Dennis Fetterman , 9 months ago

John Kerry Has been stabbing the United States in the back since Vietnam.

[Sep 19, 2020] The Russian Embassy has demanded clarification from the United States about an NBC report

Sep 19, 2020 | thenewkremlinstooge.wordpress.com

MOSCOW EXILE September 17, 2020 at 9:46 pm

18 сентября 2020 07:55
Посольство РФ потребовало от США разъяснений по поводу репортажа NBC

18 September 2020 07:55
The Russian Embassy has demanded clarification from the United States about an NBC report

The Russian Embassy in Washington has demanded an explanation from the US authorities about an NBC TV report, which mentions US support for "Ukrainian units" in the Crimea.

This has been reported in social networks on the official page of the diplomatic mission.

In American journalists' material, it was said that the United States was arming certain groups that were acting against Russian forces in the Crimea.

The point that the embassy is emphasizing is that Washington is supporting the activities of terrorists in Russia. Diplomats admit that the channel may be wrong, but demand that the United States clarify whether they are involved in organizing terrorist attacks against the residents of Crimea.

Ukrainian units fighting Russian occupying forces in the Crimea?

For the liberation of Crimeans living under the yoke of post-Soviet Russian imperialism?

Where?

When?

ET AL September 18, 2020 at 12:12 am

Liberation and subsequent return as a khanate where it can pick up where it left off, carrying out slave raids in to Russia for profit.* Good times!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Khanate#Slave_trade

[Sep 18, 2020] Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov's on Minsk agreements in his September 17, 2020 interview

Notable quotes:
"... This fully contradicts the sequence of events outlined in the Minsk agreements whereby restoring Ukrainian armed forces' control on the border with Russia is possible only after an amnesty, agreeing on the special status of these territories, making this status part of the Ukrainian Constitution and holding elections there. Now they propose giving back the part of Donbass that "rebelled" against the anti-constitutional coup to those who declared these people terrorists and launched an "anti-terrorist operation" against them, ..."
"... On the contrary, Alexander Turchinov, Arseniy Yatsenyuk and others like them attacked these areas. The guilt of the people living there was solely in them saying, "You committed a crime against the state, we do not want to follow your rules, let us figure out our own future and see what you will do next." There's not a single example that would corroborate the fact that they engaged in terrorism. It was the Ukrainian state that engaged in terrorism on their territory, in particular, when they killed [Head of the Donetsk People's Republic] Alexander Zakharchenko and a number of field commanders in Donbass. So, I am not optimistic about this. ..."
Sep 18, 2020 | thesaker.is

Question: Here I am listening to you and wondering how many people care about this? Why is it that no one understands this? Is this politics that is too far away from ordinary people who are nevertheless behind it? Take Georgia or Ukraine. People are worse off now than before, and despite this, this policy continues.

Will the Minsk agreements ever be implemented? Will the situation in southeastern Ukraine ever be settled?

Returning to what we talked about. How independent is Ukraine in its foreign policy?

Sergey Lavrov: I don't think that under the current Ukrainian government, just like under the previous president, we will see any progress in the implementation of the Minsk agreements, if only because President Zelensky himself is saying so publicly, as does Deputy Prime Minister Reznikov who is in charge of the Ukrainian settlement in the Contact Group. Foreign Minister of Ukraine Kuleba is also saying this. They say there's a need for the Minsk agreements and they cannot be broken, because these agreements (and accusing Russia of non-compliance) are the foundation of the EU and the US policy in seeking to maintain the sanctions on Russia. Nevertheless, such a distorted interpretation of the essence of the Minsk agreements, or rather an attempt to blame everything on Russia, although Russia is never mentioned there, has stuck in the minds of our European colleagues, including France and Germany, who, being co-sponsors of the Minsk agreements along with us, the Ukrainians and Donbass, cannot but realise that the Ukrainians are simply distorting their responsibilities, trying to distance themselves from them and impose a different interpretation of the Minsk agreements. But even in this scenario, the above individuals and former Ukrainian President Kravchuk, who now heads the Ukrainian delegation to the Contact Group as part of the Minsk process, claim that the Minsk agreements in their present form are impracticable and must be revised, turned upside down. Also, Donbass must submit to the Ukrainian government and army before even thinking about conducting reforms in this part of Ukraine.

This fully contradicts the sequence of events outlined in the Minsk agreements whereby restoring Ukrainian armed forces' control on the border with Russia is possible only after an amnesty, agreeing on the special status of these territories, making this status part of the Ukrainian Constitution and holding elections there. Now they propose giving back the part of Donbass that "rebelled" against the anti-constitutional coup to those who declared these people terrorists and launched an "anti-terrorist operation" against them, which they later renamed a Joint Forces Operation (but this does not change the idea behind it), and whom they still consider terrorists. Although everyone remembers perfectly well that in 2014 no one from Donbass or other parts of Ukraine that rejected the anti-constitutional coup attacked the putschists and the areas that immediately fell under the control of the politicians behind the coup. On the contrary, Alexander Turchinov, Arseniy Yatsenyuk and others like them attacked these areas. The guilt of the people living there was solely in them saying, "You committed a crime against the state, we do not want to follow your rules, let us figure out our own future and see what you will do next." There's not a single example that would corroborate the fact that they engaged in terrorism. It was the Ukrainian state that engaged in terrorism on their territory, in particular, when they killed [Head of the Donetsk People's Republic] Alexander Zakharchenko and a number of field commanders in Donbass. So, I am not optimistic about this.

Question: So, we are looking at a dead end?

Sergey Lavrov: You know, we still have an undeniable argument which is the text of the Minsk Agreements approved by the UN Security Council.

Question: But they tried to revise it?

Sergey Lavrov: No, they are just making statements to that effect. When they gather for a Contact Group meeting in Minsk, they do their best to look constructive. The most recent meeting ran into the Ukrainian delegation's attempts to pretend that nothing had happened. They recently passed a law on local elections which will be held in a couple of months. It says that elections in what are now called the Donetsk and Lugansk people's republics will be held only after the Ukrainian army takes control of the entire border and those who "committed criminal offenses" are arrested and brought to justice even though the Minsk agreements provide for amnesty without exemptions.

Question: When I'm asked about Crimea I recall the referendum. I was there at a closed meeting in Davos that was attended by fairly well respected analysts from the US. They claimed with absolute confidence that Crimea was being occupied. I reminded them about the referendum. I was under the impression that these people either didn't want to see or didn't know how people lived there, that they have made their choice. Returning to the previous question, I think that nobody is interested in the opinion of the people.

Sergey Lavrov: No, honest politicians still exist. Many politicians, including European ones, were in Crimea during the referendum. They were there not under the umbrella of some international organisation but on their own because the OSCE and other international agencies were controlled by our Western colleagues. Even if we had addressed them, the procedure for coordinating the monitoring would have never ended.

[Sep 17, 2020] A General of the Ukrainian Armed Forces Admitted That Poroshenko Executes America's Orders

Notable quotes:
"... The former Deputy Chief of the General Staff of the UAF Yury Dumansky stated on the air of the " NewsOne " TV channel that Kiev is guided by the decisions of the US concerning the question of resolving the conflict in Donbass ..."
Apr 11, 2018 | www.stalkerzone.org
Translated by Ollie Richardson & Angelina Siard 21:40:32 11/04/2018 ria.ru

The former Deputy Chief of the General Staff of the UAF Yury Dumansky stated on the air of the " NewsOne " TV channel that Kiev is guided by the decisions of the US concerning the question of resolving the conflict in Donbass.

The demands of the President Petro Poroshenko concerning the deployment of UN peacekeepers in the east of the country will directly be agreed with the special representative of the US State Department for Ukraine Kurt Volker , stressed Dumansky.

"We are in the conditions of the negotiation process. Not we, Ukraine, but a third external player who presents America – Volker – decides for us. And he solves the problem with the Russian Federation at the level of negotiations," noted the Lieutenant-General.

And it is only after, according to the military, that Poroshenko undertakes measures coordinated with the US for the solving of the conflict in Donbass.

"And then the corresponding processes are launched -- what we observe directly -- the president's trips to Turkey, Germany where one of the questions concerning solving this conflict are being raised," noted Dumansky.

Kiev in April, 2014, started a military operation against the self-proclaimed LPR and the DPR, which declared their independence after a coup d'etat in Ukraine.

The issue of solving the situation in Donbass is discussed also during contact group meetings in Minsk, which since September, 2014, adopted already three documents regulating steps to de-escalate the conflict. However, firefights between the parties of the conflict still continue.

Now the Ukrainian authorities try to obtain the introduction of UN peacekeepers in the East of Ukraine. According to Kiev, "blue helmets" should be deployed on all the territory of Donbass up to the border with Russia.

Vladimir Putin supported the idea of sending a peacekeeping mission to the East of Ukraine. However, according to him, their task includes only ensuring the security of OSCE staff, and they have to be based on the contact line.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/w_3ntz01TDc?version=3&rel=1&fs=1&autohide=2&showsearch=0&showinfo=1&iv_load_policy=1&wmode=transparent

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[Jul 28, 2020] Near and Present Anarchy by Susan Zakin

Long and incoherent rambling with weak analogies. But some thoughts are interesting
Notable quotes:
"... collapsed state ..."
"... National Affairs ..."
"... über alles ..."
Jul 28, 2020 | thebaffler.com

...while every country is different, the signposts tend to be the same. It is worth attending to the characteristics he describes. They should sound familiar:

...Rotberg points out that widespread violence, one of the key markers of a failed state, is not in evidence. But as John Comaroff noted, the soft coup of finance can make violence redundant. Rotberg is one of the more conservative voices on state failure, so I was surprised when I asked about the consequences of a second Trump term. He simply said: "Move."

... America's polarization is as much psychological as political, Rauch wrote in National Affairs , echoing John Comaroff's recognition of tribalism as intrinsic to human society. Rauch calls America's polarization neither "ideological or even rational," but deep and atavistic, a sign of the human need for group identity in a fragmented world. "Rebuilding institutions -- and, just as important, noticing and valuing them -- is more important for containing tribalism than pretty much anything that public policy could do," he writes. "And two institutions in particular deserve strengthening: the Republican Party and the Democratic Party."

... With the executive branch cratering and the legislature limping along, citizens seek recourse from the courts -- a trend Comaroff calls "lawfare" -- or become beggars, relying on the whims of billionaires. Neither are a substitute for good government. Start with the courts: since the Reagan years, the pro-business Federalist Society has been stacking the courts, so increasingly these, too, reflect that new system of finance über alles .

... Surprisingly, few have pointed out the parallels to the United States. In the 1980s, Ronald Reagan's cowboy anti-communism made institutions the enemy, whether government bureaucracies or labor unions. Libertarianism here means freedom for corporations and slavery for everyone else. James Carville's famous dictum on winning elections can be repurposed: it's corruption, stupid.

If American frontier culture is the disease, it may yet hold the cure. Among the self-described political realists, conservative Jospeh Postell's remedies sound the most realistic: grassroots organizing and restoring the power of local government to dispense largesse. In Texas, Beto O'Rourke has been pouring time and resources into just the kind of organizing Postell talks about, a test case that should be watched. The next few years will likely tell us if the old remedies work or if the restoration of America's civil society needs something that goes beyond electoral politics. The worst-case scenario? Politics as we know it may be irrelevant.

... "The United States is a state that is a partially owned commodity of the corporate sector. If that's the definition of a failed state, we are. The state has become analogous to McDonald's. It's a franchise." And what better leader for a nation reduced to a franchise than a puffed up, golf-playing billionaire whose wealth comes in large part from licensing his name? Perhaps, as some scholars are suggesting, the new world order won't be countries at all, but vast trading cities in a sea of ungoverned spaces.

... In his taxonomy of state failure, Rotberg uses a telling phrase to mark the state's decline: losing "the mandate of heaven." This expression, once invoked to describe the divine source of authority for China's rulers, invokes a crisis that is both individual and collective and more powerful for that dual nature.\

... The failure of a state shakes people to their foundations. Downward mobility has bred a hopelessness that's sent rates of suicide and alcoholism skyrocketing.

... Even now, America is more like Sierra Leone than we care to admit, disunited and conflicted, our spirits eaten by cynicism. No longer asking what we can do for our country, the old martial definition of the state has given way to the description of war-torn Sierra Leone by London School of Economics professor David Keen: "a war where one avoids battles but picks on unarmed civilians and perhaps eventually acquires a Mercedes may make more sense . . . [than] risking death in the name of the nation-state with little or no prospect of significant financial gain."

Susan Zakin is the editor of Journal of the Plague Year . She is the author of several books, including Coyotes and Town Dogs: Earth First! and the Environmental Movement and Waiting for Charlie. More of her writing can be found at www.susanzakin.com .

[Jul 26, 2020] Former Poroshenko Ally Admits Euromaidan In 2014 Was Entirely Funded By "Organized Criminal Group" - Defend Democracy Press

Highly recommended!
Jul 26, 2020 | www.defenddemocracy.press

Former Poroshenko Ally Admits Euromaidan In 2014 Was Entirely Funded By "Organized Criminal Group" 25/07/2020

24.07.2020

On July 21 st , Ukrainian businessman and politician David Zhvania revealed some open secrets of the Ukrainian politics, including crimes that former Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko had carried out. The irony of the situation is that Zhvania was, at one point, the leader of Poroshenko's campaign headquarters.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/JChtKpaulOs

He said that Euromaidan was ruled by criminal groups led by the people who were leading the parties that came into power following the coup – the BPP (Bloc of Petro Poroshenko) and the National Front.

He also said that he had participated in giving multimillion-dollar bribes to European officials in exchange for their support to Poroshenko's election as president.

The former member of Ukrainian parliament, in his video message, said that Ukraine is threatened with a new coming to power of Poroshenko.

"A creeping revenge is taking place in the country – Zelensky's rating falls, and Poroshenko and his entourage are again striving for power. I cannot look at it calmly, so I decided to give this press conference. Warn the citizens of Ukraine not to make a mistake. Tell everyone. who is Poroshenko and his entourage.

This is a criminal group that from the very beginning participated in the Maidan solely for the sake of seizing power and personal enrichment," Zhvania said.

He said that following the 2014 Maidan, an organized criminal group took power in Ukraine, and he admitted that he was part of it.

According to Zhvania, it was this criminal group that financed the protests and thwarted any options for agreements with the authorities (the Yanukovich government), which were designed to avoid escalation.

Read also: Les gilets jaunes lancent un ultimatum au Président

"I was also a member of the organized criminal group, which seized power in 2014 on the wave of popular protests. We financed the Maidan, we fueled protest moods in the media, thwarted the government's peace initiatives, conducted separate negotiations with deputies of the Party of Regions, and negotiated with foreign embassies.

The organized criminal group included Martynenko, Poroshenko, Turchynov, Yatsenyuk, Klitschko. Each of whom has attached its own group. Turchinov, for example, brought Pashinsky and Parubiy," Zhvania said and added that he was ready to testify on this matter.

After the coup victory, Zhvania's group engaged in political corruption to secure the presidency for Poroshenko.

"I and Klimkin (note: Klimkin later became the foreign minister) directly participated in the transfer of 5 million euros through the Ukrainian Embassy in Germany for one high-ranking European official at that time in order to ensure support for Poroshenko as a candidate for the presidency of Ukraine from the EU. I am ready to provide the circumstances of this to the investigating authorities," Zhvania claimed.

In his opinion, Poroshenko became president as a result of the consensus of the oligarchs. And he took on certain obligations to them, which in most cases he carried out.

According to Zhvania, during his tenure as president, Poroshenko acquired approximately $3.4 billion in bribes.

The former politician hoped that President Zelensky "will have enough political will to bring the case of Poroshenko and his entourage to an end."

"Poroshenko today, on the eve of local elections, may try to run for mayor. Before Maidan, it was his dream – he humiliatingly begged Yanukovych for the right to run for mayor of Kiev, was ready to give a bribe for this. Yanukovych did not allow, and Poroshenko did not dare to disobey," Zhvania said and promised to reveal more in the following weeks.

Read also: Brazil's Neo-Liberal Fascist Road to Power | By James Petras

In brief, he said:

  1. The Euromaidan in 2014 was not a spontaneous protest, but was financed by political circles to overthrow Yanukovych.
  2. Any peace initiatives were thwarted by a group that included Martynenko, Poroshenko, Turchynov, Yatsenyuk and Klitschko.
  3. Zhvania and Klimkin gave 5 million euros in bribes to a European official to lobby for Poroshenko's interests as a presidential candidate in 2014.

David Zhvania is a well-known Ukrainian businessman from Georgia. Long-term business partner of the deputy of several iterations of Parliament Nikolay Martynenko.

Zhvania was also a member in four different Ukrainian parliament configurations. In 2004, he was an ally of Yushchenko, was a member of the Our Ukraine bloc, and took part in the Orange Revolution. In 2005, he served as Minister of Emergency Situations in the government of Yulia Tymoshenko.

In 2006 he went to the Verkhovna Rada from "Our Ukraine" and Yushchenko, but he had a falling out with him.

In 2010, he became friends with the Yanukovych team.

In the 2012 elections, he entered parliament as a self-nominated and non-partisan candidate in 140 constituencies. He was a member of the Party of Regions faction, but left it in 2013 when the Revolution of Dignity began.

In the 2014 elections, he was one of the heads of the electoral headquarters of the Petro Poroshenko Bloc. People's Deputy Aleksandr Onishchenko stated that he transferred money to Zhvania for a seat in the parliament of the 8th convocation.

[Jul 16, 2020] There is a dark and dangerous forest behind these burning trees... by The Saker

Jul 16, 2020 | www.unz.com

The Ukraine

Yes, the Ukraine. Again. This insanity which began with the Euromaidan has not stopped, far from it. In fact, ever since the election of Zelenskii the Ukraine has become something of a madhouse which would be outright hilariously comical if it wasn't also so tragic and even horrible for millions of Ukrainians. I will spare you all the details, but we can sum up the main development of the past months as "Zelenskii has completely lost control of the country". But that would not even begin to cover the reality of this situation.

For one thing, the war of words between Trump and Biden over the Ukraine-gate has now "infected" the Ukrainian political scene and each side is now busy with what is known locally as "black PR": trying to dig up as much dirt against your opponent as possible. Zelenskii is so weak that, amazingly, the previously almost totally discredited Poroshenko has now made a strong comeback and thereby acquired the support of a lot of influential nationalists. The latest incredible (but true!) "informational bomb" was set off by a member of the Ukrainian Rada, Andrei Derkach, who released a recording of Joe Biden and Poroshenko discussing the pros and cons of organizing a terrorist attack in Crimea ( see here for details about this amazing story). This makes both Biden and Poroshenko "sponsors of terrorism" (hardly a surprise, but still). Other "juicy" news stories about the Nazi-occupied Banderastan include Zelenskii possibly fathering a kid with an aide and the brutal attacks on the members of a small (but growing) "Sharii" opposition party which the authorities not only ignored, but most likely ordered in the first place. It is not my purpose here to discuss all the toxic intricacies of internal Ukronazi politics, so I will only look at one of the major dangers resulting from this dynamic: there is talk of war with Russia again.

Okay, we have all heard the very same rumors for years now, and yet no real and sustained Ukrainian attack on the LDNR or, even less so, Crimea ever took place (there were constant artillery strikes and diversionary attacks, but those remain below the threshold of open warfare). But what we hear today is a little bit different: an increasing number of Ukrainian and even Polish observers have declared that Russia would attack this summer or in September, possibly using military maneuvers to move forces to the Ukrainian border and attack. Depending on whom you ask, such an attack could come from Belarus and/or from central Russia – some even worry about a Russian amphibious operation against the Ukrainian coastline and cities like Mariupol, Nikolaev, Kherson or Odessa.

The Ukronazis are truly amazing. First they cut off all the electricity and even water from Crimea, and then they declare that Russia will have to invade to retake control of the water supply. The notion that Russia will solve Crimea's water problem by peaceful and technological means is, apparently, quite unthinkable for the Ukronazi leaders. In the real world, however, Russia has a comprehensive program to comprehensively solve Crimea's water problems. This program has begun by laying down water pipes, improving of the irrigation system of Crimea, the use of special aircraft to trigger rain and might even include the creation of a desalination plant. The simple truth is that Russia can easily make Crimea completely independent from anything Ukrainian.

And just to make things worse, the head of the Ukrainian Navy (which exists on paper mostly) has now declared that a new Ukrainian missile, the Neptune , could reach as far as Sevastopol. The problem is not the missile itself ( it is a modernized version of an old Soviet design , and it is slow and therefore easy to shoot down), but the kind of "mental background noise" that this kind of talk of war creates.

From a purely military point of view, Russia does not even have to move any troops to defeat the Ukrainian armed forces: all Russia needs to do is to use its powerful long-range stand-off weapons and reconnaissance-strike complexes to first decapitate, then disorganize and finally destroy the Ukrainian military. Russia's superiority in the air, on the water and on land is such that the Ukrainians don't have a chance in hell to survive such an attack, nevermind defeating Russia. The Ukrainians all know that since, after all, their entire military could not even deal with the (comparatively) minuscule and infinitely weaker LDNR forces (at least when compared to regular Russian forces).

Still, the Ukrainians have one advantage over Russia: while this would be extremely dangerous to try, they must realize that, unlike in the case of their attacks on the Donbass, should they dare to attack Crimea, President Putin would not have any other option than to order a retaliatory strike of some sort. Any Ukrainian attack or strike on Crimea would probably fail with all the missiles intercepted long before they could reach their targets, but even in this case the pressure on Putin to put an end to this would be huge. Which means that it would not be incorrect to say that whoever is in power in Kiev can force Russia to openly intervene. This means that in this specific case the weaker side can have at least some degree of escalation dominance.

Now the Ukraine definitely cannot achieve strategic surprise and is even most unlikely to achieve tactical surprise, but, again, the actual success of any Ukrainian strike on Crimea does not require the designated targets of the strike to be destroyed: all that would be needed, in some plans at least, is the ability to do two things:

Finally, I would suggest that we look at this issue from the point of view of the AngloZionist Empire: in many, if not most, ways, the Banderastan the West created in the Ukraine has outlived its utility: the USN won't get a base in Crimea which is now lost forever (it is now one of the best defended places on the planet), Russia has not openly intervened in the civil war, the Ukronazi forces were comprehensively trounced by the Novorussians and in economic terms, and the Ukraine is nothing but one big black hole with an ever growing event horizon. Which might suggest to some in the US ruling elites that to trigger a losing war against Russia might be the best (and, possibly, only) thing their ugly creation could do for them. Why?

Well, for one thing, such a war will be bloody, even if it is short. Second, since the Russians are exceedingly unlikely to want to occupy any part of what is today the Nazi-occupied Ukraine, this means that even a total military defeat would not necessarily result in a complete disappearance of the current Banderastan. Yes, more regions in the East and the South might try to use this opportunity to rise up and liberate themselves, and should that happen Russia might offer the kind of help she offered the Novorussians, but I don't think that anybody seriously believes that Russian tanks will be seen on Kiev or, even less so, Lvov (nevermind Warsaw or Riga). So a military loss against Russia would not be a total loss for Banderastan and it might even yield some beneficial dynamics to whatever consolidated Ukronazi-power might come out from such a conflict. Actually, should that happen I fully expect the Ukronazis to declare a kind of jihad to liberate the Moskal' -occupied Ukraine. This means that the initial bloodbath would be followed by a festering low to medium level military conflict between Russia and the Ukraine which could last a very long time and also be most undesirable for Russia.

During my studies I had the honor and privilege to study with a wonderful Colonel of the Pakistani Army who became a good friend. One day (that was around 1991) I asked my friend what the Pakistani strategy would be during a possible war against India. He replied to me: "look, we all know that India is much stronger and bigger than Pakistan, but what we all also know is that if they attack us we can give them a very bloody nose". This is exactly what the Ukrainian strategy might be: to give Russia a "bloody nose". Militarily, this is impossible, of course, but in political terms any open war against the Ukraine would be a disaster for Russia. It would also be a disaster for the Ukraine, but the puppet-masters of the Ukronazis in Kiev don't care about the people of the Ukraine anymore than they care about the people of Russia: all they want is to give the Russians a big bloody nose.

In summary, here is one possible scenario which might result in a regional catastrophe: whoever is in power in the Ukraine would begin by realizing that the project of an Ukronazi Banderastan has already failed and that neither the EU nor, even less so, the US is willing to continue to toss money into the Ukie black hole. Furthermore, clever Ukie politicians will realize that neither Poroshenko nor Zelensii have "delivered" the expected "goods" to the Empire. Then the East-European US vassal-states (lead by Poland and the Baltic statelets) also realize that EU money is running out and that far from having achieved any real economic progress (nevermind any "miracle"), they are also becoming increasingly irrelevant to their masters in the EU and US. And, believe me, the political leaders of these US vassal-states have realized a long time ago that a war between Russia and the Ukraine would be a fantastic opportunity for them to regain some value in the eyes of their imperial overlords in the EU and US. To people who think like these people do, even an attempted Neptune strike against Sevastopol would be a quick and quite reasonable way to force Putin's hand.

Robjil , says: July 15, 2020 at 11:21 am GMT

@vot tak happening now in the US.

The big Ukrainegate trials from Nov. 2019 to Jan. 2020 was to defend Zion Ukraine.

Then the Corona show began in the US since mid March 2020.

BLM started late May 2020.

Ukronazis hate everything about Russia with a frenzy. It is extremely irrational and counterproductive for Ukraine of today. Russia is not communist anymore. The Zion ruled west is the real enemy of Ukraine. Yet, the Ukronazis can't see that with their anti-Russia frenzy.

BLM does the exact same thing. It destroys everything in the US except the real problem which is our rulers – the Zionists. This creates the same situation as in Zion Ukraine.

[Jul 15, 2020] George Soros, I've read, controls everything in Ukraine.

Jul 15, 2020 | www.unz.com

Cking , says: July 15, 2020 at 1:43 pm GMT

...Ukraine is disintegrating. I do not know if Russia would actually invade Ukrainian territory, or if the West would engage in real war for Ukraine since their constituencies would not stand for it.

And what is actually going on now? The US, the EU and Russia all had the chance to accept and work with the new fella, Zelensky, who was boldly demanding money, goods, services, more money, technology, high tech, skilled labor, management, and more money.

No one is running to fund, support, and actually construct a dangerous Zionist state between Russia and Europe.

Looks like everyone is content to watch Ukraine slowly disappear as a nation-state so that another organization can appear. You'd think both the EU, (Germany) and Russia would like to see Ukraine's farm and food production prowess restored, to the condition of the Bread Basket of Europe. George Soros, I've read, controls everything in Ukraine.

What exists, is a Soros founded, 'open society', Zionist, oligarchical, private sector, and ultimately, government supported, feudal-state.

[Jul 13, 2020] The deep origins of Ukrainian euromaydan coup detat

The USA control of the Ukrainian security services was the number one prerequisite for the successful coup d'état.
Jul 13, 2020 | www.amazon.com

But there was one deficiency that was, and is, fatal -- a deficiency that would inevitably cause the new states to misgovern at home while degrading international standards abroad. There was one thing that the new states lacked -- something they could neither make for themselves nor obtain from abroad: this was a genuine political community. It is difficult to give a formal definition of political community. Perhaps it is best to begin by evoking the familiar concept of "the nation" as opposed to that of "the state."

The new states came into existence because the colonial authorities handed over their powers to political leaders who had agitated for independence; more specifically, the new leaders were given control over the army, police, tax collectors, and administrators who had worked for the colonial government.

The old servants of the empire served their new masters, ostensibly for new purposes. But their methods and their operational ideology were those of the imperial power -- which were shaped by notions that reflected the values of its political community, including legality. There was no organic nexus between the native cultures and the instruments of state power, and neither could such a link be formed. For one thing, there were usually several native cultures, typically quite different and often inimical.

... ... ...

The consequences soon became evident. The new rulers were vested with all the crushing powers over individuals that the entire machinery of files and records, vehicles, telecommunications, and modern weapons gave to the departed colonial states they had inherited. But their conduct was not constrained by any notions o f legality or by the ethical standards that any functioning political community must enforce, even if only to the extent of requiring hypocrisy and discretion on the part of violators.

Above all, their conduct was not restrained by ordinary political resistance because the first leaders who gained office with independence soon ensured their enduring monopoly of power. That was first asserted by outlawing or illegally shutting down any rival political party, but it was better assured by the feeble opposition of the oppressed majority, which lacked the social frameworks for effective opposition of any kind, whether peaceful or violent.

Misgovernment was thus preordained

[Jul 05, 2020] western chapter of looking the other way for their 'son of a bitches.'

Jul 05, 2020 | thenewkremlinstooge.wordpress.com

ET AL July 3, 2020 at 12:40 pm

Euractiv: MEPs alarmed by 'politically motivated persecution' in Ukraine
https://www.euractiv.com/section/europe-s-east/news/meps-alarmed-by-politically-motivated-persecution-in-ukraine/

"We are alarmed by continuous attempts to misuse the Ukrainian justice system for politically motivated persecution of political opponents," said lawmakers from the informal Friends of European Ukraine group in a statement on Friday (3 July).

After the peaceful power transition of 2019 election in the post-Soviet country, "current attempts to prosecute political opponents pose a risk of democratic backsliding," the group of MEPs added.

Ukraine's former president, Petro Poroshenko, is suspected of abuse of office by illegally pressuring the then-chief of Ukraine's Foreign Intelligence Service, Yehor Bozhok, into appointing Serhiy Semоchko as his deputy.

Poroshenko is involved in 24 investigations, with three others recently closed, and denies any wrongdoing, calling the probes selective justice 'at the orders of [Volodymyr] Zelensky', the current president .

The 50-member group, which does not have formal standing, was created in September last year with the goal of providing political support and to promote Ukraine's economic integration with the EU
####

Unfortunately there is more at the link except the names of MEPs.

A Ukrainian oligarch has his own MEP lobby group! Why should we be surprised? I can't find a list of members (this is not the old 2014-19 group and this European Parliament page has not been updated with the new group of the same name) but Auštrevičius is the chaiman. There's also the Friends of Ukraine with the like of Fogh Rasmussen, Versbow, Rifkind, Cox, Bildt etc. on the Rasmussen site.

No matter how corrupt, murderous or just plain nasty, it is more important to keep the u-Kraine close to the EU, close to NATO etc. for strategic purposes. It's just another western chapter of looking the other way for their 'son of a bitches.'

[Jul 05, 2020] Support for the Ukrainian SOB from usual cicles : BBC casts a sympathetic eye on Porky's alleged persecution:

Jul 05, 2020 | thenewkremlinstooge.wordpress.com

MOSCOWEXILE July 4, 2020 at 5:54 pm

Poor old Poroshenko!

BBC casts a sympathetic eye on Porky's alleged persecution:

Ukraine's Zelensky accused by ex-leader of hosting Russian 'fifth column'
55 minutes ago

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53281086 .

Accompanied by "several thousand of supporters" was Porky, according to the BBC

That a fact?

[May 20, 2020] Phone Calls Between Biden And Ukraine's Poroshenko Leaked; Details $1 Billion Quid Pro Quo To Fire Burisma Prosecutor Zero

Highly recommended!
May 20, 2020 | www.zerohedge.com

Phone Calls Between Biden And Ukraine's Poroshenko Leaked; Details $1 Billion "Quid Pro Quo" To Fire Burisma Prosecutor by Tyler Durden Wed, 05/20/2020 - 05:12 Leaked phone calls between Joe Biden and former Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko explicitly detail the quid-pro-quo arrangement to fire former Ukrainian Prosecutor General Victor Shokin - who Poroshenko admits did nothing wrong - in exchange for $1 billion in US loan guarantees (which Biden openly bragged about in January, 2018 ).

https://www.youtube.com/embed/Q0_AqpdwqK4?start=3118

The calls were leaked by Ukrainian MP Andrii Derkach , who says the recordings of "voices similar to Poroshenko and Biden" were given to him by investigative journalists who claim Poroshenko made them.

Shokin was notably investigating Burisma, the Ukrainian energy company that hired Biden's son, Hunter, to sit on its board. Shokin had opened a case against Burisma's founder, Mykola Zlochevsky, who granted Burisma permits to drill for oil and gas in Ukraine while he was Minister of Ecology and Natural Resources. In January, 2019, Shokin stated in a deposition that there were five criminal cases against Zlochevesky, including money laundering, corruption, illegal funds transfers, and profiteering through shell corporations while he was a sitting minister.

Viktor Shokin

The leaked calls begin on December 3, 2015 , when former Secretary of State John Kerry starts laying out the case to fire Shokin - who he says "blocked the cleanup of the Prosecutor Generals' Office," and sated that Biden "is very concerned about it," to which Poroshenko replies that the newly reorganized prosecutor general's office (NABU) won't be able to pursue corruption charges, and that it may be difficult to fire Shokin without cause.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/EbmDLhJ43cU

Later in the leaked audio on February 18, 2016 - less than three months after the Kerry conversation - Poroshenko delivers some "positive news."

"Yesterday I met with General Prosecutor Shokin," says Poroshenko. And despite of the fact that we didn't have any corruption charges, we don't have any information about him doing something wrong, I specially asked him - no, it was day before yesterday - I specially asked him to resign. In, uh, as his, uh, position as a state person. And despite of the fact that he has a support in the power. And as a finish of my meeting with him, he promised to give me the statement on resignation. And one hour ago he bring me the written statement of his resignation . And this is my second step for keeping my promises. "

To which Biden replied: "I agree."

https://www.youtube.com/embed/EbmDLhJ43cU?start=246

Four weeks later on March 22, 2016, Biden says "Tell me that there is a new government and a new Prosecutor General. I am prepared to do a public signing of the commitment for the billion dollars. "

Poroshenko tells Biden that one of the leading candidates is the man who replaced Shokin, Yuriy Lutsenko who later said in a deposition that Hunter Biden and his business partners were receiving millions of dollars in compensation from Burisma.

Then, on May 13, 2016, Biden congratulates Poroshenko on "getting the new Prosecutor General," saying that it will be "critical for him to work quickly to repair the damage Shokin did."

" And I'm a man of my word ," Biden adds. "And now that the new Prosecutor General is in place, we're ready to move forward to signing that one billion dollar loan guarantee ."

Poroshenko thanks Biden for the support, and says that it was a "very tough challenge and a very difficult job."

Shokin, meanwhile, filed a criminal complaint against Biden in Kiev this February, in which he writes:

During the period 2014-2016, the Prosecutor General's Office of Ukraine was conducting a preliminary investigation into a series of serious crimes committed by the former Minister of Ecology of Ukraine Mykola Zlotchevsky and by the managers of the company "Burisma Holding Limited "(Cyprus), the board of directors of which included, among others, Hunter Biden, son of Joseph Biden, then vice-president of the United States of America.

The investigation into the above-mentioned crimes was carried out in strict accordance with Criminal Law and was under my personal control as the Prosecutor General of Ukraine.

Owing to my firm position on the above-mentioned cases regarding their prompt and objective investigation, which should have resulted in the arrest and the indictment of the guilty parties, Joseph Biden developed a firmly hostile attitude towards me which led him to express in private conversations with senior Ukrainian officials, as well as in his public speeches, a categorical request for my immediate dismissal from the post of Attorney General of Ukraine in exchange for the sum of US $ 1 billion in as a financial guarantee from the United States for the benefit of Ukraine.

* * *

And while we cannot verify the authenticity of the recordings with absolute certainty, we now have the audio revealing how the deed was orchestrated.

[May 02, 2020] EU should consider 'flexible' Russia sanctions

May 02, 2020 | thenewkremlinstooge.wordpress.com

et Al April 28, 2020 at 10:18 am

I'm posting this for entertainment purposes:

Euractiv: EU should consider 'flexible' Russia sanctions over Ukraine: report
https://www.euractiv.com/section/europe-s-east/news/eu-should-consider-flexible-russia-sanctions-over-ukraine-report/

The EU should reconsider its 'all or nothing' approach on sanctions imposed on Russia for its role in the ongoing conflict in eastern Ukraine, as well as its annexation of Crimea, a new report from the International Crisis Group suggests. The Brussels-based think tank calls for the easing of certain sanctions in exchange for Russian progress towards peace in Ukraine.

"Inflexible sanctions are less likely to change behaviour," said Olga Oliker, Europe and Central Asia programme director. "Because of that, we urge considering an approach that would allow for the lifting of some sanctions in exchange for some progress, with a clear intent to reverse that rollback of sanctions if the progress itself is reversed."

.A major roadblock in the implementation of the Minsk deal has been the sequence of events supposed to bring an end to the conflict that has so far claimed more than 13,000 lives.

Kyiv wants to first regain control over its border with Russia before local elections in the war-torn region can be held, while Moscow believes that elections must come first
####

Door. Horse. Barn. Bolted.

The Intentional Critics Grope is yet again a $/€ short in the reality department.

You would think the Editor Gotev (the last two paras by him) would mention that the Minsk agreement clearly states elections come first and that Kiev has singularly refuse the other conditions of the agreement, but that really would be asking too much. From a professional journalist.

It's the same shit we got with the US-North Korea 4 point nuclear agreement where de-nuclearization of the region is the final stage yet it didn't take Washington and ball-licking corporate media to parrot 'denuclearization' as the first point as suddently decided by the Ovum Orifice.*

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agreed_Framework

Mark Chapman April 28, 2020 at 1:24 pm
They try it on again about every six months, just to see if the Russian negotiators have changed and if the new ones are dimwitted. I'm sure it is crystal clear to the Kremlin that if it gave Ukraine back exclusive control of the border, it would (a) call up troops and set up a cordon to make it impossible for eastern Ukraine to be reinforced, and (b) launch an all-out military push to re-take the breakaway regions. The west would then shout "Safe!!!", and the game would be over – Ukraine is (almost) whole again, praise Jeebus. There would be a propaganda storm that Russia was 'trying to meddle in the peace process' while Kuh-yiv rooted out and either imprisoned or executed all the 'rebel' leaders, and the west – probably the USA – would provide 'peacekeepers' to give Ukraine time to restore its complete control over the DNR and LPR. Then, presto! no elections required, we are all happy Ukrainians!

They knew 'inflexible sanctions were less likely to change behaviors' when they first agreed to impose them – but they were showing their belly to Washington, and don't know how to stop now. Serves them right if they are losing revenue and market share.

Mark Chapman April 29, 2020 at 8:42 am
I don't think Russia is very interested, beyond polite diplomatic raising of the eyebrows, in relaxing of sanctions under conditions the EU is careful to highlight could be reapplied in a trice, as soon as anyone was upset with Russia's performance. Because that moment would be literally only a moment away. The UK can be counted on to register blistering outrage at the drop of a hat, and while its influence on the EU will soon be limited, dogs-in-the-manger like Poland can always be relied upon to throw themselves about in an ecstasy of victimhood. It would be impossible to set up any sort of dependable supply chain, as the interval between orders would never be known with any degree of certainty. Fuck the EU. Russia is better off to press on as it has been doing. The EU has to buy oil and gas from Russia because the logistics and price of American supplies make them economically non-competitive, and best to just leave it there. The EU will bitch, but it will continue to buy, whereas any other commerce would be subject to theatrical hissy fits.

[Mar 21, 2020] Can Zelensky resolve the situation in Donbass?

Mar 21, 2020 | thesaker.is

Auslander on March 20, 2020 , · at 4:12 am EST/EDT

Ukraine will remain as a festering sore for quite some years yet. It is an annoyance but also distracts Foggy Bottom to an extent and this is never a bad thing.

The control structure is firmly in place and Zelenskii knew this before he tossed his hat in the ring. Just like in Cehsha, no one is successful in politics in orcland without permission of Langley and their field office which is the entire top floor of the American Embassy in Kiev. He is a figurehead albeit with no known, operative term being 'known', affiliations with the nazi orcs.

Novorossiya is to all intents and purposes now a part of Russia. It is not official and will not be official for some years yet, could be even a decade if not more. In practice, in general Novorossiya uses the Russian code of law and justice. The borders with Novorossiya, unlike with orcland, are open and it is very common to see DPR and LPR license tags down here, both private and commercial vehicles. We are getting some product manufactured in Novorossiya in this berg including excellent and quite reasonably priced winter boot socks and long underwear, and this means that NAF, Novorossiya Armed Forces, are fully equipped and in need of nothing.

The nazi 'volunteer' battalions are still in use in the lines but the die hard nazi honchos no longer put themselves in danger, too many of them have bitten the big one, so now they feed the youngsters in to the slaughter.

OSCE as usual sees nothing on the orc side and in general have disappeared on the Novorossiya side for the last few years, a little something about OSCE leaving a village near the lines and scant minutes later the orcs bombarded that village with pinpoint accuracy. Imagine that, what a surprise. As an aside, when OSCE showed up at the Krim borders in early April of '14, demanding entrance with a dozen or so buses behind them as 'security', said buses full of armed Maidan fighters, they were given short shrift and refused entry. No negotiation, no bargaining, just 'hell no, you aren't coming in'.

Bottom line, orcland lost the war in the late summer cauldrons of '14 when the 'young men who are not rallying to the colours' according to Strelkov returned home with their training cut short and savaged the orc battalions sitting fat, dumb and happy in the steppes just east of Saur Mogeleh. The coup d'grace was the Debaltsyevo Cauldron of early '15 wherein the golden pheasants, the foreign mercenaries and 'observers', were allowed to leave first, only allowed their rucks and one personal weapon (which led to the foreigners abandoning not a small number of interesting devices and informations) and only in open trucks. The same deal was given to the orcs and the first couple orc units followed the deal to the letter, then the orcs decided to run for it with their armor and AFV's. They were promptly slaughtered by not only DPR and LPR forces but also the locals who armed up with abandoned orc weapons and had their revenge for the depredations of the orcs.

Sadly, this war will go on for a while and the only thing saving the orcs from losing the rest of Donetsk Oblast and Lughansk Oblast is the firm hand VVP keeps on the reins of NAF. NAF is far from strong enough to take anything beyond the two oblasti but would dearly love to be turned loose to take the rest of their lands. This will not happen in the near and possibly not so near future.

Sevastopol and Krimu are, and will continue to be, overjoyed with our freedom from the orcs and it was us, the locals, who locked up the orcs and then put them out. Life is normal in Russia and yes, we are absolutely a part of Russia and always will be. Never again will a foreign power raise their foul smelling coloured rags on our flagpoles. Never.

Auslander
Author http://rhauslander.com/

Never The Last One, paper back edition. https://www.amazon.com/dp/1521849056 A deep look in to Russia, her culture and her Armed Forces, in essence a look at the emergence of Russian Federation.

An Incident On Simonka paperback edition. https://www.amazon.com/dp/1696160715 NATO Is Invited To Leave Sevastopol, One Way Or The Other.

Paul II on March 20, 2020 , · at 5:09 am EST/EDT
If winning 5% of mainland Ukraine is a victory, I'd hate to see what a loss would be. The Kremlin's policy may have worked from an economic point of view, but perhaps not from a geostrategic one. And that is setting aside morality or morale questions.

Maybe this was the best that could be achieved at the time, but that just illustrates how badly Moscow maneuvered for decades to get into such a bind.

Auslander on March 20, 2020 , · at 6:47 am EST/EDT
So suggest what Russia should have done, taking in to account that Russia was still rebuilding from the early '90's debacle and was in no real condition to go to war if needed.

Morality and morale questions have very little weight in the realm of power politics, and that is precisely were the orc mess was and is, power politics. We took Krim and Sevastopol home, the locals removed the best of Donbas from orc control. People die in conflicts and often far more innocents die than the actual fighters. This is a fact of life for untold time and nothing will change this fact.

Larchmonter445 on March 20, 2020 , · at 8:45 am EST/EDT
Paul II, you sit on your couch and play general, but smoke is coming from your butt, not knowledge or facts.

Here's what a loss would have been:
125,000-250,000 Russian-speaking people of Donbass slaughtered, some in battles overrunning the cities, most eliminated in filtration (like in Mariupol, Kharkiv, Odessa and Krasny Limon during the war).
That would have been part of what a loss would look like. Genocide. Ethnic Cleansing.
The Ukies were moving their troops with mobile crematoria. They wound up using them to hide their own losses, but the intention was to "disappear" the bodies of the civilians they came to Donbass to kill.

The Trade Union Fire Massacre should tell you what a loss would look like.
The bombing at noon of Lugansk City Hall park and building should tell you what a loss would look like.
There are plenty of examples of what a loss would look like.

Review the photos, watch the videos. The loss would have looked like 1000 of those crimes against humanity.

So, do your homework and don't come here with simpleton comments.
The Mad Dogs of the Maidan slaughtered dozens of the Berkut in Kiev and tried to kill more as they fled to Krim. Ask Auslander about those facts. The Ukie intention was murder on a scale not seen since Yugoslavia in the '90s, but 10x worse.

Russia, Putin, Moscow, the Kremlin stopped it in its tracks, and delivered a victory to Donbass.

Ask the US special forces and NATO what the boilers the Ukies suffered were, victories or losses?

Ask the 600 NATO golden pheasants allowed to bus out of Debaltsevo cauldron (after Minsk2 was signed) what victory or loss looked like. Putin bent Merkel, Hollande, and Porky backwards as they begged him to save the NATO troops surrounded by Zakharchenko's Donbass Army. Victory or Loss?

2014 is not 2020. It was clear that Moscow knew they would have to hold Crimea from the Maidanistas. Defending the Peninsula, protecting Sevastopol was primary.

Next, Russia had to protect the long border with Ukraine. Multiple fronts would have opened up, not just the border at Lughansk, which the Donbass captured from the Ukies.

No one knows whether NATO would allow Poland to attack and grab Kaliningrad.
There was Georgia that could have ignited against Russia again.
There was Transnistria that could have erupted into a battle zone.

Putin had to stay focused on what Russia in 2014 could handle. A wide, deep war in Ukraine was not in the cards. It was a calculation Strelkov had not made. He thought the Russians would come in force.
It wasn't in the cards. It wasn't necessary.
The threat was controlled.
Donbass was a victory.
That Europe, the OSCE, NATO, the Exceptionally Moral USA and the UN all allow the daily bombardment and killing of civilians in Donbass doesn't mean the war was lost.

What the results are is proof of the high crime of Russophobia and attempts at Ethnic Cleansing.

Kiev spews their hatred at every opportunity. The US rewards them with billions of dollars for doing so.
NATO trains them to do it with their military.
American Special Forces joins them at the front to kill with Javelins, sniper rifles, artillery, mortars and armed drones.

Russia waits. It waited since Khrushchev's days for Crimea to return. The polite Green Men didn't have to fire a shot.

The war you win sometimes is the war you never fight.

Russia is not interested in all of Ukraine. Historically, only a portion of Ukraine is connected with Russian culture. As we saw with Crimea, it may return on its own one day. No need to fight a war to claim it.

Auslander on March 20, 2020 , · at 9:41 am EST/EDT
Larchmonter, my friend and comrade, there is hardly a thing I can add to your well though out and erudite reply besides your forecast of the casualties if Donbas had been overrun by the orcs is if anything too low.

Perhaps Paul II has not read the blog archives where what I posted what the refugees and evacuees we were digging out of Donetsk said about their lovely adventures. Perhaps I should post what our adoptive son and his two sisters went through, or what the two girls that took us two weeks to find after they were sent by their mother and father to safe haven had to say after we had to tell them that their mother, father, grandmother, six neighbors and four dogs were killed when a Grad went through the kitchen window of their flat in Gorlovka. As a small aside, there was not a single DPR soldier or piece of equipment within 4 kilometers of their flat when the entire complex took a complete packet of Grad missiles that killed a lot more than their immediate family and neighbors.

I think I will just leave that to his imagination whilst he ruminates about what President Putin should have done.

Auslander

Joshua on March 20, 2020 , · at 9:49 pm EST/EDT
Auslander,
You sre far more kind to his comment than many would be.
This includes my self, though I am half way across the world.
MC on March 20, 2020 , · at 12:34 pm EST/EDT
Yes, we lived together all these moments from our seats in front of our computers Suffered together Thanks for reminding us, Larch. You are forgiven .
Joshua on March 20, 2020 , · at 10:04 pm EST/EDT
Larch,
I mean no offence but, where is your point of reference?
From what well does your point of view flow?
Information recieved, or truly your own observations and honest conclusions?

[Mar 21, 2020] Ukraine is owned and operated by the US.

Mar 21, 2020 | thesaker.is

Larchmonter445 on March 19, 2020 , · at 7:39 pm EST/EDT

Ukraine is owned and operated by the US. The CIA and SBU are fingers on the same hand (Avakov's fist). They share the same building in Kiev and in Mariupol, and probably in Odessa and Kharkiv. Certainly, the control of the population in these cities are all under the thumb (and boot) of Avakov.

The Nazis have their hero, Biletsky, the Azov Battalion charismatic. More and more his forces own the streets of Kiev and are the masses that terrorize the Comedian Chief Zelenskii.

The military has been retrained and re-equipped with some better weapons. Drones are prolific and add to the bombardments of Donbass, usually done by tanks, mortars and 122mm arty, and sometimes, MRLS.

The negotiations are primarily at a high level, with new faces on both sides. Andrey Ermak for Ukraine and Dmitry Kozak for Russia. Kozak replaces Surkov who has resigned from all Presidential special assignments.
These two, Ermak and Kozak, arranged the gas deal that settled the lawsuit against Gazprom and arranges the natural gas supply for Ukraine. Kozak is Ukrainian-born. He seems to favor leaving Donbass inside Ukraine, and shows no inclination to separate the Donbass and bring it into the Russian Federation.

Though most analysts predict the collapse of Ukraine, and, including nearly all of them have much more knowledge than I do about Ukraine, my opinion is based on my knowledge and analysis of US history, ideology and hegemonic strategies and tactics.

I don't think Ukraine will be allowed to collapse. It is a strategic piece of turf, and the people don't matter to the US. If they live or die, work or are enslaved, are healthy or sick, it doesn't factor in the calculus. What matters is there are Russophobes there by the tens of millions. It is a long border with Russia.

Also, Russia won't invade it. Russia accepts the daily bombardment of Donbass (six years of it). Russia took the crown jewel, Crimea. It has shown no interest in taking in Donbass.

Ukraine effectively (along with Crimea) are the reasons for many sanctions that marginalize Russia and bring it close to classification of "aggressor". There is a strong effort to take Russia's UNSC seat or at least its voting rights because of this "aggression". One reason for the persistence of the MH-17 court case aimed at Russia is to add to the "aggressor" facts. Russia is the target of the Dutch prosecution.

How long can Kiev last? At five billion dollars a year, it can last a decade more, longer if useful. Where does the money come from? US, European haters of Russia, billionaires from Russia, from Ukraine and from other nations, the World Bank, the IMF. The CIA and the US Senate would sign on to the whole bill if need be. Just another item on the black budget. There's money in the State Dept and plenty of money from UK, historic enemy of Russia. Money for Ukraine has not ever been an issue.

What does five billion per year buy? 365 days of pure hatred, bombardment of Donbass and the continuing sanctions and demonization of Putin and Russia.

They aren't operating a nation with the money. They are financing the hatred, the war, the psychosis of the nazis.

As for the Ukies, now 36 million or so, they are on their own. No one cares if they disperse to other countries. There is no Ukraine as it once existed seven years ago or 25 years ago. That's gone.
The population is the target of sex traffickers, human organ traffickers, terror groups needing more manpower, and countries that want near-slave labor workers.

The degradation of the Ukraine people is no one's concern. It is not a factor in anyone's plans or schemes.
Young men will be shanghaied into the ATO military and young women will be enticed or forced into the sex industry at home or abroad. Old people will die from poor food and no medical care.

What matters is that the turf next door to Russia is a launching pad and base of military operations, terrorist acts and sabotage aimed at Russia and especially at Crimea. The US wants this, most of the EU wants this, NATO wants this, every Russophobe on Earth wants this and all Khazarians dream of this night and day.

A Second Israel is a project some Khazarians talk openly about Ukraine.
Of course, that is after Ukraine is emptied and Russia is broken. For now a dream. But once, so was Israel.

So, we are in for a long war. A decade more of this is entirely possible.
What has always been the key is would the Ukies finally pass over the psychotic red line and attack Russia. Then, the ending is knowable. All nazis pushed into an enclave in the west (Lviv) and Ukraine filtered and reconstructed.

The initiative is with the Ukies. They decide. An agonizing slow disappearance and decay or a lightning war that cauterizes the pus out of their nation and brings them from Euro-delusion to Eurasian reality.

B.F. on March 20, 2020 , · at 4:27 am EST/EDT
Larchmonter445
On this occasion I cannot fully agree with you. You stated that Ukraine will not be permitted to collapse. And who is going to prevent this ? And how will this be prevented ? As I have written before, the West, led by NATO and the EU, started a chain reaction in 2014 when they instigated that coup d'etat against Yanukovich. Central American and South American methods of regime change were implemented, where a minority was intended to both represent and control the majority. The coup plotters forgot that there is such a thing as history and tradition. Ukraine is a post World War One artificial creation, as before that it never existed as a sovereign state. The actual name of the country is derived from the Slavic name "Krayina", which means "frontier region". From "Krayina" you get "Ukrayina" and from "Ukrayina" you got "Ukraine", which was the frontier region of Russia. The so-called Ukrainian language has about 90 % Russian words, the remaining 10% being either Polish or Western words.

What happened in 2014 ? Quite simply the clock was turned back, Ukraine being transformed in to a feudal state run by robber barons known as oligarchs. The neo-Nazi thugs seen in the streets are feudal retainers, used to terrorize the population into obedience. And how will this end ? Yes, the population has currently been reduced to a passive "survival mode". However, this "survival mode" will produce one of two things: the country will either dissolve into three entities, the bulk of the population doing nothing about it, or else you will see a spontaneous explosion of unrest, the neo-Nazis being helpless to prevent it. What ever happens, I think that Ukraines days as a "sovereign" state are numbered. An artificial state cannot possible survive. It will break up into three entities, the eastern and central regions rejoining Russia, while the former Galicia in the west will become an area of contention between Poland and Hungary.

B.F. on March 20, 2020 , · at 5:39 am EST/EDT
Just to add a note on Vladimir Putin. I wonder how many times he laughed after that coup d'etat was instigated against Yanukovich in Kiev. Yes, the West got rid of Yanukovich, installing puppets. However, puppets are puppets. The West, as I have written, has started a chain reaction which cannot be stopped. So far Putin has reunited Crimea with Russia. The Donbass (eastern Russian regions of Ukraine) will follow, concluding with central Ukraine and the ancient Russian city of Kiev.
Ralph on March 20, 2020 , · at 7:56 pm EST/EDT
B.F. While I mostly agree with a lot you have written on the Donbass, you can be very sure Putin did not laugh at all after the coup, that you can take to the bank. It did cause him major – and still – unresolved problems.
grrr on March 20, 2020 , · at 9:00 am EST/EDT
Correct.
grrr on March 20, 2020 , · at 8:57 am EST/EDT
re:"project some Khazarians talk openly about Ukraine"
Never hear about such thing. Can you provide some refs? Thanks
Anonymous on March 20, 2020 , · at 2:39 pm EST/EDT
read Pavel Sudoplatov´s "Special Tasks" (available on Amazon I believe), there is a whole chapter "California in Crimea" – and that was about the 1940´s in the USA,
Anonymous on March 20, 2020 , · at 7:36 pm EST/EDT
@'California in Crimea'

You make the point also. Sudoplatov may be accused of 'antisemitic propaganda', so let the actors speak for themselves:

from 'Encyclopedia Judaica: The Crimean Affair'@https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/crimean-affair:

"Name used to refer to the closed antisemitic trial of the Jewish *Anti-Fascist Committee (JAC) held in Moscow from May to July 1952. One of the pretexts may have been a memorandum presented in the summer of 1944 by members of the Committee to the Soviet leadership containing a proposal to create a Jewish Soviet republic in the *Crimea (the Tatar population of which was exiled by Stalin by May 1944) on the territory of the former German republic of the Volga. Noting the successes of the Jewish national regions in the Crimea and in the Kerson region, the authors of the memorandum based their proposal on the lack of a geographical base of a significant part of the Jewish population of the Soviet Union and on the need to grant the Jews equality in governmental-legal terms with the other nationalities of the Soviet Union. They also expressed the hope that "the Jewish masses of all countries, in particular the United States would give substantial aid" to building up such a republic. Despite the rumors that some members of the Politburo of the Central Committee ( Lazar *Kaganovich and Vyacheslav Molotov) were favorably disposed toward the idea of the "Crimean Plan," it was rejected in 1944.
The proposals of the memorandum contained nothing radically new. Projects for establishing a Jewish republic in the southern Ukraine or in the Crimea had been suggested earlier. For example, in 1923 the social leader A. Bragin had proposed that one be established on the Black Sea coast from Bessarabia to Abkhaz with its capital in Odessa, while Yuri *Larin supported, in opposition to the Birobidzhan plan, a Jewish autonomous area in the southern Crimean and Azov region centered in Kerch ".

[Feb 23, 2020] Sick trash by PaulR

Notable quotes:
"... In 2017, a woman working with frontline families told me why she didn't want reintegration. 'These [the population of rebel-held Donbass] are people with a minimum level of human development, people raised by their TVs. Okay, so we live together, then what? We're trying to build a completely new society.' ..."
"... And there once again you have it – one of the primary causes of the war in Ukraine: the contempt with which the post-Maidan government and its activist supporters regard a significant portion of their fellow citizens, the 'sick trash' of Donbass with their 'minimum level of human development'. ..."
Feb 18, 2020 | irrussianality.wordpress.com

I'd never heard of the Euro-Atlantic Security Leadership Group (EASLG) until today, even though it turns out that one of its members has the office next door to mine. Its website says that it seeks to respond to the challenge of East-West tensions by convening 'former and current officials and experts from a group of Euro-Atlantic states and the European union to test ideas and develop proposals for improving security in areas of existential common interest'. It hopes thereby to 'generate trust through dialogue.'

It's hard to object to any of this, but its latest statement , entitled 'Twelve Steps Toward Greater Security in Ukraine and the Euro-Atlantic Region', doesn't inspire a lot of confidence. The 'twelve steps' the EASLG proposes to improve security in Eastern Ukraine are generally pretty uninspiring, being largely of the 'set up a working group to explore' variety, or of such a vaguely aspirational nature as to be almost worthless (e.g. 'Advance reconstruction of Donbas An essential first step is to conduct a credible needs assessment for the Donbas region to inform a strategy for its social-economic recovery.' Sounds nice, but in reality doesn't amount to a hill of beans).

For the most part, these proposals attempt to treat the symptoms of the war in Ukraine without addressing the root causes. In a sense, that's fine, as symptoms need treating, but it's sticking plaster when the patient needs some invasive surgery. At the end of its statement, though, the EASLG does go one step further with 'Step 12: Launch a new national dialogue about identity', saying:

A new, inclusive national dialogue across Ukraine is desirable and could be launched as soon as possible. Efforts should be made to engage with perspectives from Ukraine's neighbors, especially Poland, Hungary, and Russia. This dialogue should address themes of history and national memory, language, identity, and minority experience. It should include tolerance and respect for ethnic and religious minorities in order to increase engagement, inclusiveness, and social cohesion.

This is admirably trendy and woke, but in the Ukrainian context somewhat explosive, as it implicitly challenges the identity politics of the post-Maidan regime. Unsurprisingly, it's gone down like a lead balloon in Kiev. The notorious website Mirotvorets even went so far as to add former German ambassador Wolfgang Ischinger to its blacklist of enemies of Ukraine for having had the temerity to sign the EASLG statement and thus 'taking part in Russia's propaganda events aimed against Ukraine.' Katherine Quinn-Judge of the International Crisis Group commented on Twitter, 'As the idea of dialogue becomes more mainstream, backlash to the concept grows fiercer.' 'In Ukraine, prominent pro-Western politicians, civic activists, and media, have called Step 12 "a provocation" and "dangerous",' she added

Quinn-Judge comes across as generally sympathetic to the Ukrainian narrative about the war in Donbass, endorsing the idea that it's largely a product of 'Russian aggression'. But she also recognizes that the war has an internal, social dimension which the Ukrainian government and its elite-level supporters refuse to acknowledge. Consequently, they also reject any sort of dialogue, either with Russia or with the rebels in Donbass. As Quinn-Judge notes in another Tweet:

An advisor to one of Ukraine's most powerful pol[itician]s told us recently of his concern about talk of dialogue in international and domestic circles. 'We have all long ago agreed among ourselves. We need to return our territory, and then work with that sick – sick – population.'

This isn't an isolated example. Quinn-Judge follows up with a couple more similar statements:

Social resentments underpin some opposition to disengagement, for example. An activist in [government-controlled] Shchastye told me recently that she feared disengagement and the reopening of the bridge linking the isolated town to [rebel-held] Luhansk: 'I don't want all that trash coming over here.'

In 2017, a woman working with frontline families told me why she didn't want reintegration. 'These [the population of rebel-held Donbass] are people with a minimum level of human development, people raised by their TVs. Okay, so we live together, then what? We're trying to build a completely new society.'

And there once again you have it – one of the primary causes of the war in Ukraine: the contempt with which the post-Maidan government and its activist supporters regard a significant portion of their fellow citizens, the 'sick trash' of Donbass with their 'minimum level of human development'. You can fiddle with treating Donbass' symptoms as much as you like, à la EASLG, but unless you tackle this fundamental problem, the disease will keep on ravaging the subject for a long time to come. In due course, I suggest, the only realistic cure will be to remove the patient entirely from the cause of infection.

Mao Cheng Ji says: February 18, 2020 at 5:02 pm Yeah, but that's just their standard narrative.

See here, for example:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/uNupUPjLdUI?version=3&rel=1&fs=1&autohide=2&showsearch=0&showinfo=1&iv_load_policy=1&wmode=transparent

And it's been there, either officially or beneath the surface, since forever. Since the Habsburgs, probably, when it was first introduced in Ruthenia.

Guest says: February 21, 2020 at 5:27 am

This person speaks so casually of genocide!!!

It's disgusting that such people have been empowered and such ideas are mainstream.
Calling people sick trash is the start on the road to genocide

Mao Cheng Ji says: February 22, 2020 at 1:46 pm

He's still there, working. Popular journalist and blogger.

dewittbourchier says: February 18, 2020 at 6:01 pm
All that you have described above is very sad, but not very surprising – which is itself very sad. I think Patrick Armstrong is right that a lot of the reason Ukraine is not and has never been a functional polity is because much if not most of the population cannot accept that the right side won WWII.
Mikhail says: February 18, 2020 at 10:15 pm

Hypocritically denounces the USSR, while seeking that entity's Communist created/inherited boundaries

akarlin says: February 18, 2020 at 6:48 pm

Contempt and loathing towards the Donbass is a pretty popular feeling amongst Ukrainian svidomy. E.g., one of the two regular pro-Ukrainian commenters on my blog.

To his credit, he supports severing the Donbass from Ukraine (as one would a gangrenous limb – his metaphor) as opposed to trying to claw it back. Which is an internally consistent position.

Mikhail says: February 18, 2020 at 10:13 pm

Same guy who doesn't consider Yanukovych as having been overthrown under coup like circumstances, while downplaying Poland's past subjugation of Rus territory.

Lyttenburgh says: February 19, 2020 at 8:18 pm

In Part I and II we saw how much truth is there in Herr Karlin's claim of being a model of the rrrracially purrrre Rrrrrrrussian plus some personal views.

Part III (this one) gives a peek into his cultural and upbringing limits, which "qualify" him as an expert of all things Russian, who speaks on behalf of the People and the Country.

Exhibit "A"

" I left when I was six, in 1994 , so I'm not really the best person to ask this question of – it should probably be directed to my parents, or even better, the Russian government at the time which had for all intents and purposes ceased paying academics their salaries.

I went to California for higher education and because its beaches and mountains made for a nice change from the bleakness of Lancashire.

I returned to Russia because if I like Putler so much, why don't I go back there? Okay, less flippancy. I am Russian, I do not feel like a foreigner here, I like living in Moscow, added bonus is that I get much higher quality of life for the buck than in California ."

Exhibit "B"

"I never went to school, don't have any experience with writing in Russian, and have been overexposed to Anglo culture , so yes, it's no surprise that my texts will sound strange."

Vladimir says: February 20, 2020 at 8:46 am

The Russian branch of Carnegie Endowment did a piece on this issue. It mostly fits your ideas, but the author suggests it was a compromise, short-term solution – what steps can be taken right now, without crossing red lines of either side – but compromise is unwelcome among both parties. The official Russian reaction was quite cold too.

"Удаленные 12 шагов. Почему в Мюнхене испугались собственных предложений по Донбассу"
https://carnegie.ru/commentary/81093

Mikhail says: February 20, 2020 at 4:54 pm

Upon a quick perusal of the website of the org at issue, Alexey Arbatov and Susan Eisenhower have some kind of affiliation with it, thus maybe explaining the compromise approach you mention.

This matter brings to mind Trump saying one thing during his presidential bid – only to then bring in people in key positions who don't agree with what he campaigned on.

In terms of credentials and name status, the likes of Rand Paul, Tulsi Gabbard, Stephen Cohen and Jim Jatras, are needed in Trump's admin for the purpose of having a more balanced foreign policy approach that conforms with US interests (not to be necessarily confused with what neocons and neolibs favor).

Instead, Trump has been top heavy with geopolitical thinking opposites. He possibly thought that having them in would take some of the criticism away from him.

The arguably ideal admin has both sides of an issue well represented, with the president intelligently deciding what's best.

Guest says: February 21, 2020 at 5:23 am

On the BBC and on other media there are films of Ukrainians attacking a bus with people evacuated from China. These people even wanted to burn down the hospital where the peoplew were taken (along with other unrelated patients)

This is a sign of a degraded society – attacking people who may or may not be ill!!!

Ukraine will eventually break up
The nationalist agenda is just degrading the society.

-The economy is failing
-People who can, are leaving
-The elected government has no control over the violent people who take to the streets

It's clear Zelensky is a puppet no different to Poroshenko – this destroys the idea that democracy is a good thing.

It's very sad that the EU and the Americans under Obama – empowered these decisive elements and then blame Russia.

Crimea did the right thing leaving Ukraine – Donbass hopefully will follow.

Lyttenburgh says: February 21, 2020 at 11:16 am

"And there once again you have it – one of the primary causes of the war in Ukraine: the contempt with which the post-Maidan government and its activist supporters regard a significant portion of their fellow citizens, the 'sick trash' of Donbass"

[ ]

Only them?

[ ]

Yesterday marks yet another milestone on the Ukrainian glorious шлях перемог and long and arduous return to the Family of the European Nations. The Civil Society ™ of the Ukraine rose as one in the mighty CoronavirusMaidan, against the jackbooted goons of the crypto-Napoleon (and agent of Putin) Zelensky. Best people from Poltava oblast' (whose ancestors without doubt, welcomed Swedish Euro-integrators in 1709) and, most important of all, from the Best (Western) Ukrajina, who 6 years ago made the Revolution of Dignity in Kiev the reality and whom pan Poroshenko called the best part of the Nation, said their firm "Геть вiд Москви!"

to their fellow Ukrainian citizens, evacuated from Wuhan province in China

The Net is choke full of vivid, memorable videos, showing that 6 years after Maidan, the Ukraine now constitute a unified, эдiна та соборна country. You all, no doubt, already watched these clips, where a brave middle-aged gentleman from the Western Ukraine, racially pure Ukr, proves his mental acuity by deducing, that crypto-tyrant (and "не лох") Zelensky wants to settle evacuees in his pristine oblast out of vengeance, because the Best Ukrajina didn't vote for him during the election. Or a clip about a brave woman from Poltava oblast, suggesting to relocate the Trojan-horse "fellow countrymen" to Chernobol's Zone. Or even the witty comments and suggestions by the paragons of the Ukrainian Civil Society, " волонтэры ":


Shy and conscientious members of the Ukrainian (national!) intelligentsia had their instincts aligned rrrrrright. When they learned about that their hospital will be the one receiving the evacuees from Wuhan, the entire medical personell of that Poltava oblast medical facility rose to their feet and sang "Shenya vmerla". Democracy and localism proved once again the strongest suit of the pro-European Ukraine, with Ternopol's oblast regional council voting to accept the official statement to the crypto-tyrant Zelensky, which calls attempts to place evacuees on their Holy land "an act of Genocide of the Ukrainian People" (c)

Just the headlines .

[ ]

That's absolutely "normal", predictable reaction of the "racially pure Ukrainians" to their own fellow citizens. Now, Professor, are you insisting on seeking or even expecting "compromise" with them ? What to do, if after all these years, there is no such thing as the united Ukrainian political nation?

Like Like Reply

Lyttenburgh says: February 21, 2020 at 2:12 pm

"Ukraine's democracy is flourishing like never before due to the tireless efforts of grassroots, pro-democracy, civil-society groups. Many Ukrainians say their country is now firmly set on an irreversible, pro-Western trajectory. Moreover, the country has also undertaken a top-to-bottom cultural, economic, and political divorce from its former Soviet overlord.

Today, Ukraine is a democratic success story in the making, despite Russia's best efforts to the contrary."
– Nolan Peterson, a former special operations pilot and a combat veteran of Iraq and Afghanistan, is The Daily Signal's foreign correspondent based in Ukraine

International recognition of the fact:

[Feb 19, 2020] Documents of the Ukrtainian Prosecutor General's office, which describes how in February 2014, the militants on the Maidan first opened fire on the "Berkut" were leaked

Google translation.
Notable quotes:
"... On Tuesday, the sixth anniversary of the beginning of the shootings on Kiev's Maidan was celebrated not only in Kiev, but also in Simferopol, the memory of three Crimeans – Dmitry Vlasenko, Vitaly Goncharov and Andrey Fedyukin, the first Berkut fighters who died on Maidan. We will remind that at the peak of the confrontation between law enforcement officers and maydanovites in February 2014, seven "berkutovites" were killed and about three hundred were injured. ..."
"... On the same day, which in Ukraine is still called by inertia the anniversary of the "revolution of dignity", deposed President Viktor Yanukovych addressed his compatriots, and in fact-to the current President Vladimir Zelensky. For some, the protests were a "revolution", but for the majority of the people they turned into a terrible tragedy, Yanukovych said and stressed: "After the 2019 presidential election, the people of Ukraine removed Poroshenko from power, giving President Zelensky and his team a chance to unite Ukraine." ..."
"... The document of the Prosecutor General's office of Ukraine in 2017 became public, which step by step indicates how and from what weapons the Maidan militants first began then – or rather 8 am on February 20 – to shoot the Berkut fighters who were standing in the cordon. A scan of the materials collected by the group of the head of the Department of special investigations of the Prosecutor General's office, Sergei Gorbatyuk, was published by the publication "Country". ..."
"... The document contains a full list of 34 Maidan activists involved in the shootings on February 20, 2014 in the center of Kiev. It turns out that in the fall of 2017, they were preparing to present a "suspicion". The 34 activists listed are members of the centurion Parasyuk group, mostly natives of the Lviv region. Vladimir Parasyuk, recall, took an active part in Euromaidan, later fought in the Donbass and made a political career in the Verkhovna Rada. On February 21, 2014, it was Parasyuk who appeared on the rostrum of the Maidan and announced the refusal of the protesters to fulfill the agreements concluded by the opposition leaders and Yanukovych. ..."
"... The person who actually started the "revolution", as it turns out, was a clear criminal. As noted in the publication "Country", just a month later, in March 2014, Yuskevich was caught in a robbery in his native Lviv region – and the weapon of the crime was the same gun "Chifsan". For this robbery, he received 7 years and is still in prison. So you don't have to look for it, if anything. It can be assumed that the main motive that prompted Yuskevich to participate in the shooting was the hatred of many criminals for the police. But it is significant that the published documents were put under the cloth. Bring Yuskevich suspected in the shooting of "Berkut" was blocked at the level of the head of the Department of special investigations of the Prosecutor General Sergei Gorbatyuk – it is possible that by order from above. ..."
"... "In the investigation of the death of the" heavenly hundred" held after the Maidan, falsification was carried out from the first days, "Yuriy Sivokonenko, a witness and participant in the tragic events, a veteran of the" Berkut " from Donetsk, said in a comment to the newspaper VZGLYAD. "Completely ignored the fact that the soldiers of the special forces "Berkut" and the internal troops of Ukraine did not have weapons until the morning of February 20, 2014, - said the source. – Four years later, we just started looking for trees on the battlefield, calculating bullet paths, although these trees have long been cut down. This in itself shows the scale of the fraud." ..."
"... The fact that firearms and ammunition could get to the Maidan, most likely, with the knowledge and consent of the future head of the presidential administration Sergei Pashinsky and the future speaker of the Verkhovna Rada Andrey Parubiy, still knew in 2014, said Sivokonenko. "This has been discussed many times. Pashinsky was even detained while trying to remove a sniper rifle from the Maidan in the trunk of his car in 2014. He, like Parubiy, has the most direct and direct relation to the blood on the Maidan," the veteran of "Berkut" stressed. ..."
"... Back in 2016, the Lviv radical Ivan Bubenchik admitted in a conversation with a journalist in the shooting of "berkutovtsev". But the nationalist protection provided him with immunity from prosecution. ..."
"... That is, fragments of the truth were already known before, but now they are for the first time formed into one clear picture. ..."
"... "These facts became known thanks to the active civil position of the former Minister of justice of Ukraine Elena Lukash and Deputy Andrey Portnov. They made this information public at their own risk, " sivokonenko recalled. However, now the official document of the Prosecutor General's office has been made public, and secondly, the full list of alleged shooters. ..."
"... "This is a key issue, in fact. Were the shooters acting on their own initiative or following a specific order? -the editor-in-chief of the online publication noted on Facebook "Страна.иа" Igor Guzhva. – How did they end up at the Conservatory?" Under what circumstances did Parasyuk appear on the podium the next day, February 21, and say that the Maidan will not fulfill the agreements reached with Yanukovych?". ..."
"... "I assume that the government team is trying to reduce pressure from radical groups, trying to reduce the level of exploitation of the Maidan theme, which is resorted to by supporters of Poroshenko and various right – wing groups," suggested political analyst Ruslan Bortnik. ..."
Feb 18, 2020 | vz.ru

Kiev released documents of the Prosecutor General's office, which describes how in February 2014, the militants on the Maidan first opened fire on the "Berkut". The names of the murderers and even the brands of weapons are named. Of course, such important documents are unlikely to get into the press without the sanction of the current leadership of the country. Now there is only one question: if the perpetrators of the Maidan massacre are named, will its customers be disclosed?

On Tuesday, the sixth anniversary of the beginning of the shootings on Kiev's Maidan was celebrated not only in Kiev, but also in Simferopol, the memory of three Crimeans – Dmitry Vlasenko, Vitaly Goncharov and Andrey Fedyukin, the first Berkut fighters who died on Maidan. We will remind that at the peak of the confrontation between law enforcement officers and maydanovites in February 2014, seven "berkutovites" were killed and about three hundred were injured.

On the same day, which in Ukraine is still called by inertia the anniversary of the "revolution of dignity", deposed President Viktor Yanukovych addressed his compatriots, and in fact-to the current President Vladimir Zelensky. For some, the protests were a "revolution", but for the majority of the people they turned into a terrible tragedy, Yanukovych said and stressed: "After the 2019 presidential election, the people of Ukraine removed Poroshenko from power, giving President Zelensky and his team a chance to unite Ukraine."

There was no response to Yanukovych's appeal, and it would be difficult to expect. But it seems that in recent time the myth of the Maidan, on which was based the Ukrainian government in the years 2014-2019, began to rapidly deteriorate. First of all, the legend of the "heavenly hundred"came down the other day. As already noted by the newspaper VZGLYAD, among the designated "heroes" were found: people killed in drunken fights, suicides, as well as those who were killed directly by the "maydanovites" themselves. On the sixth anniversary of the beginning of the massacre on Institutskaya street, the mythology of the "revolution of dignity" was dealt a second blow.

The document of the Prosecutor General's office of Ukraine in 2017 became public, which step by step indicates how and from what weapons the Maidan militants first began then – or rather 8 am on February 20 – to shoot the Berkut fighters who were standing in the cordon. A scan of the materials collected by the group of the head of the Department of special investigations of the Prosecutor General's office, Sergei Gorbatyuk, was published by the publication "Country".

The document contains a full list of 34 Maidan activists involved in the shootings on February 20, 2014 in the center of Kiev. It turns out that in the fall of 2017, they were preparing to present a "suspicion". The 34 activists listed are members of the centurion Parasyuk group, mostly natives of the Lviv region. Vladimir Parasyuk, recall, took an active part in Euromaidan, later fought in the Donbass and made a political career in the Verkhovna Rada. On February 21, 2014, it was Parasyuk who appeared on the rostrum of the Maidan and announced the refusal of the protesters to fulfill the agreements concluded by the opposition leaders and Yanukovych.

It is specified that some of the suspects from the list were questioned and even gave confessions. It is reported that the gang was organized in the first half of February 2014, stocked up on hunting rifles and arrived in the center of Kiev. Specific details of the beginning of the massacre are given: the first fire was opened by a certain Nazar Yuskevich – from the barricade he fired at least ten shots at a line of internal troops from a hunting rifle "Chifsan 555", after which the shooting was supported by his ten accomplices not named in the document.

VZGLYAD-The signal for the overthrow of Yanukovych was the shot of a criminal

The person who actually started the "revolution", as it turns out, was a clear criminal. As noted in the publication "Country", just a month later, in March 2014, Yuskevich was caught in a robbery in his native Lviv region – and the weapon of the crime was the same gun "Chifsan". For this robbery, he received 7 years and is still in prison. So you don't have to look for it, if anything. It can be assumed that the main motive that prompted Yuskevich to participate in the shooting was the hatred of many criminals for the police. But it is significant that the published documents were put under the cloth. Bring Yuskevich suspected in the shooting of "Berkut" was blocked at the level of the head of the Department of special investigations of the Prosecutor General Sergei Gorbatyuk – it is possible that by order from above.

As explained in the publication of "Country", the documents of the Gorbatyuk group as a whole were not given a go, since they contradicted the official version adopted under Poroshenko: berkutovtsy opened fire on the protesters, on the orders of Yanukovych, to break the spirit of the Maidan defenders.

"It is clear why under Poroshenko the information was put under the cloth – it would have been necessary to initiate appropriate criminal cases, prosecute a lot of Maidan activists, and even people's deputies," Ukrainian political analyst Ruslan Bortnik told the VZGLYAD newspaper.

"In the investigation of the death of the" heavenly hundred" held after the Maidan, falsification was carried out from the first days, "Yuriy Sivokonenko, a witness and participant in the tragic events, a veteran of the" Berkut " from Donetsk, said in a comment to the newspaper VZGLYAD. "Completely ignored the fact that the soldiers of the special forces "Berkut" and the internal troops of Ukraine did not have weapons until the morning of February 20, 2014, - said the source. – Four years later, we just started looking for trees on the battlefield, calculating bullet paths, although these trees have long been cut down. This in itself shows the scale of the fraud."

The fact that firearms and ammunition could get to the Maidan, most likely, with the knowledge and consent of the future head of the presidential administration Sergei Pashinsky and the future speaker of the Verkhovna Rada Andrey Parubiy, still knew in 2014, said Sivokonenko. "This has been discussed many times. Pashinsky was even detained while trying to remove a sniper rifle from the Maidan in the trunk of his car in 2014. He, like Parubiy, has the most direct and direct relation to the blood on the Maidan," the veteran of "Berkut" stressed.

Moreover, at least 6 out of 34 surnames from the list of Gorbatyuk were known earlier. Back in 2016, the Lviv radical Ivan Bubenchik admitted in a conversation with a journalist in the shooting of "berkutovtsev". But the nationalist protection provided him with immunity from prosecution. Another shooter – Dmitry Lipovoy, under interrogation by investigators (the video was published last year by media expert Anatoly Shari), he admitted to handing the tambourine And the father of the future Deputy Zinoviy Parasyuk a saiga carbine for shooting at security forces.

That is, fragments of the truth were already known before, but now they are for the first time formed into one clear picture.

"These facts became known thanks to the active civil position of the former Minister of justice of Ukraine Elena Lukash and Deputy Andrey Portnov. They made this information public at their own risk, " sivokonenko recalled. However, now the official document of the Prosecutor General's office has been made public, and secondly, the full list of alleged shooters.

However, the question remains open – whether Parasyuk's hundred (or Yuskevich's group-Bubenchik-Linden) acted independently or executed the order. In the draft suspicion that was presented to Yuskevich, investigators of the Prosecutor General's office say that the leaders of the Maidan did not want a war with Yanukovych, and the Parasyuk group simply "misunderstood" the goals of the protest.

"This is a key issue, in fact. Were the shooters acting on their own initiative or following a specific order? -the editor-in-chief of the online publication noted on Facebook "Страна.иа" Igor Guzhva. – How did they end up at the Conservatory?" Under what circumstances did Parasyuk appear on the podium the next day, February 21, and say that the Maidan will not fulfill the agreements reached with Yanukovych?".

But whatever it was, "sources in the Prosecutor General's office" did their job – and the sensational document has now become public. Experts suspect that the publication was sanctioned by President Vladimir Zelensky.

"I assume that the government team is trying to reduce pressure from radical groups, trying to reduce the level of exploitation of the Maidan theme, which is resorted to by supporters of Poroshenko and various right – wing groups," suggested political analyst Ruslan Bortnik.

"The accuracy of information may raise questions. But in any case, these materials should become an element of the investigation of the events on the Maidan, which continues today in Ukraine, " the expert added. And in any case, Bortnik believes, " Moscow's version is growing, according to which the Maidan was an illegal change of power, a coup that led to events in the Crimea and Donbas."

Supporters of Petro Poroshenko admitted on Tuesday that the publication of documents of the Prosecutor General's office was for them a" retaliatory blow " of the anti-Maidan.

"All these lists are an obvious provocation aimed at aggravating the conflict on the anniversary of the tragic events. The whole country saw who killed people on Maidan and who was killed. There are video frames!,- the head of the Kiev center for applied political research "Penta" Vladimir Fesenko told the newspaper VZGLYAD. – And these materials, authored by the then Deputy head of the administration of President Yanukovych – are an attempt by the anti-Maidan to strike back and present their version. This is an attempt to absolve yourself of responsibility for the evil, for the blood that was spilled then. Most Ukrainians remember who the killers were."

Fesenko hopes that the majority of Ukrainians will be able to keep on the side of the "revolution of Dignity". This will be easy to do. Most Ukrainian TV channels ignored the publication of documents of the Prosecutor General's office.

[Feb 16, 2020] Understanding the Ukraine Story by Joe Lauria

Highly recommended!
Notable quotes:
"... Imagine if we substitute the U.S. for Russia and the country "invaded" was Canada, rather than Ukraine, the government overthrown was in Ottawa and not Kiev, and the provinces embroiled in a foreign-backed civil war have been Nova Scotia and New Brunswick rather the provinces of Eastern Ukraine? This report, written in 2016, may make it easier to understand what has been really going on in Ukraine. Clicking on the links is key to understanding the real story. ..."
"... Washington Post ..."
"... Versions of this article first appeared on ..."
"... Consortium News ..."
Feb 14, 2020 | consortiumnews.com

The impeachment hearings and trial of Donald Trump were filled with talk of Russian aggression against Ukraine and threats to the United States. But what would it be like if we switched the roles of Russia and the U.S.?

Imagine if we substitute the U.S. for Russia and the country "invaded" was Canada, rather than Ukraine, the government overthrown was in Ottawa and not Kiev, and the provinces embroiled in a foreign-backed civil war have been Nova Scotia and New Brunswick rather the provinces of Eastern Ukraine? This report, written in 2016, may make it easier to understand what has been really going on in Ukraine. Clicking on the links is key to understanding the real story.

By Joe Lauria
Special to Consortium News

T he United States has "invaded" Canada to support the breakaway Maritime provinces that are resisting a Moscow-engineered violent coup d'etat against the democratically elected government in Ottawa.

The U.S. move is to protect separatists in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia after Washington annexed Prince Edwards Island in a quickly arranged referendum .

The Islanders voted over 90 percent in favor of joining the United States following the Russian-backed coup. Moscow has condemned the referendum as illega l.

Hard-liners in the U.S. want Washington to annex all three Maritime provinces, whose fighters are defying the coup in Ottawa after Moscow installed an unelected prime minister.

Russian-backed Canadian federal troops have launched so-called "anti-terrorist" operations in the breakaway region to crush the rebellion, shelling residential areas and killing hundreds of civilians.

The violent coup.

The Canadian army are joined by Russian-supported neofascist battalions that played a crucial role in the overthrow of the Canadian government. In Halifax, the extremists have burned alive at least 40 pro-U.S. civilians who had taken refugee in a trade union building.

Proof that Russia was behind the overthrow of the elected Canadian prime minister is contained in a leaked conversation between Georgiy Yevgenevich Borisenko, foreign ministry chief of Moscow's North America department, and Alexander Darchiev, the Russian ambassador to Canada.

According to a transcript of the leaked conversation, Borisenko discussed who the new Canadian leaders should be six weeks before the coup took place.

Russia moved to launch the coup when Canada decided to take a loan package from the IMF that had fewer strings attached than a loan from Russia.

Russia's Beijing ally was reluctant to back the coup. But this seemed of little concern to Borisenko who is heard on the tape saying, "Fuck China."

Minister handing out cookies in the square.

Weeks before the coup Borisenko was filmed visiting protestors who had camped out in Parliament Square in Ottawa demanding the ouster of the prime minister. Borisenko is seen giving out cakes to the demonstrators.

The foreign ministers of Russian-allied Belarus and Cuba also marched with the protestors through the streets of Ottawa against the government. Russian media has portrayed the unconstitutional change of government an act of "democracy." Russian senators have met in public with extreme right-wing Canadian coup leaders, praising their rebellion.

Borisenko said in a speech that Russia had spent $5 billion over the past decade to "bring democracy" to Canada.

Senator meeting far-right coup leaders.

The money was spent on training "civil society." The use of non-governmental organizations to overthrow foreign governments that stand in the way of Russia's economic and geo-strategic interests is well documented, especially in a 1991 Washington Post column, "Innocence Abroad: The New World of Spyless Coups ."

The United States has thus moved to ban Russian NGOs from operating in the country.

The coup took place as protestors violently clashed with police, breaking through barricades and killing a number of officers. Snipers fired on the police and the crowd from a nearby building in Parliament Square in which the Russian embassy had set up offices just a few floors above, according to Samantha Power, the U.S. ambassador to the U.N.

Son Gets Job After Coup

Russian lawmakers compared President Barack Obama to Adolph Hitler for allegedly sending U.S. troops into the breakaway provinces and for annexing Prince Edward Island in an act of "American aggression." The Maritimes have had long ties to the U.S. dating back to the American Revolution.

Russia says it has intelligence proving that U.S. tanks have crossed the Maine border into New Brunswick, but have failed to make the evidence public. They have revealed no satellite imagery. Russian news media only reports American-backed rebels fighting in the Maritimes, not American troops.

Washington denies it has invaded but says some American volunteers have entered the Canadian province to join the fight.

Russia's puppet prime minister now in charge in Ottawa has only offered as proof six American passports of U.S. soldiers found in New Brunswick.

Son gets job on energy company board after his father's government backs violent coup.

The Maritime Canadian rebels have secured anti-aircraft weapons enabling them to shoot down a number of Royal Canadian Air Force transport planes.

A Malaysian airlines passenger jet was also shot down over Nova Scotia killing all on board. Russia has accused President Obama of being behind the incident, charging that the U.S. provided the anti-aircraft weapon.

Moscow has refused to release any intelligence to support its claim, other than statements by Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov.

Canada's economy is near collapse and is dependent on infusions of Russian aid. This comes despite a former Russian foreign ministry official being installed as Canada's finance minister, only receiving Canadian citizenship on her first day on the job.

Despite installing a Russian to run Canada's economy, President Putin told the U.N. General Assembly that Russia had "few economic interests" in the country. But Russian agribusiness companies have already taken stakes in Albertan wheat fields. And Ilya Medvedev, son of Russian Prime Minister Dmitri Medvedev, as well as a Lavrov family friend joined the board of Canada's largest oil company just weeks after the coup.

Russia's ultimate aim, beginning with the imposition of sanctions on the U.S., appears to be a color revolution in Washington to overthrow Obama and install a Russian-friendly American president.

This is clear from numerous statements by Russian officials and academics. A former Russian national security advisor whom Putin consults on foreign policy said the United States should be broken into three countries.

He has also written that Canada is the stepping stone to the United States and that if the U.S. loses Canada it will fail to control North America.

Versions of this article first appeared on The Duran and Consortium News in 2016.

Joe Lauria is editor-in-chief of Consortium News and a former correspondent for T he Wall Street Journal, Boston Globe , Sunday Times of London and numerous other newspapers. He can be reached at joelauria@consortiumnews.com and followed on Twitter @unjoe .


mary floyd , February 15, 2020 at 13:20

The most important takeaway in this article for me was that the US should be broken into three separate entities!
That would work well for most Americans. All in all, this is a great piece, Mr. Lauria!

Dao Gen , February 15, 2020 at 02:28

Joe, you are The Truth. The only thing you left out, no doubt for reasons of space and time, was the immortal statement made by a leading member of the Russian Duma, who said during a stirring and well-received speech that, “Canada is our crucial first line of defense against the US. If Canada weren’t there to stop the Americans, we’d have to fight them right here on our own doorstep.”

Herman , February 14, 2020 at 18:52

A very creative way of making the point. Still do not understand the depth of what often appears to be heart felt hate for Russia by very powerful and smart people. Remember reading a comment by Phil Girardi early in the Trump tour when he remarked at the depth of dislike of Russia within the spook community. He wrote he was surprised and had, I think, been part of that community.

Eddie S , February 15, 2020 at 14:51

RE: “…depth of dislike of Russia within the spook community”.
While I have no ‘special knowledge’ of the so-called ‘intelligence community’, there’s a few reasons for this that come to-mind:
— Job preservation. The most obvious. The US wouldn’t need ~80% of those spooks if there
weren’t big scary Russians/Chinese/Iranians/N.Koreans constantly plotting against the
peaceful, benevolent US.

— Spooks believe in what is mainly a distractionary ploy by US oligarchs/plutocrats. These
wealthy interests don’t want to lose some of their wealth to social reforms, so they constantly
financially support scare-mongering, which some spooks unquestioningly accept.

— The profession tends to attract some of the more paranoid elements in our society, so
they’re inclined that way by nature/personality.

robert e williamson jr , February 14, 2020 at 17:51

Well one thing for sure we would not be seeing a female anchor on CNN bemoaning the fact the because of the coronavirus many popular kids toys might not be available here in the U.S. for the up coming holidays (?).

Yes it did happen, hell I couldn’t make that up.

DARYL , February 14, 2020 at 15:45

…or better yet, substitute Central America for Ukraine, and Panama(canal) for Crimea, then you have the makings of an even more salient parallel.

Realist , February 14, 2020 at 15:42

The difference is that under your scenario the world would be a smoking heap of radioactive ashes already as the exceptional nation, unlike the ever cautious Russians, would have immediately made bombastic threats and then launched military attacks to protect its “security interests.” (Warring to “protect” security interests has replaced invasion and occupation to save souls.) Things would have escalated from there to its predestined thermonuclear climax, as they will in the real world if Uncle Sam doesn’t get a grip on his uncontrolled aggression, demanding whatever he wants whenever he wants it at the point of a gun. The world seems to be circling the drain whether or not Washington is allowed to micromanage the affairs of Russia, China, Iran and every last duchy, principality and people’s republic in addition to its own monumental mess it calls domestic affairs. We’ve only got two political parties in this madhouse and they are both equally bent on destroying civilisation if they can’t rule it all, which seems to be the only point they agree on. Each party thinks it preferable to allow an obscenely rich oligarch (what else should we call Trump or Bloomberg?) from the other side to rule rather than a “communist” like Bernie Sanders or a “naive peacenik” like Tulsi Gabbard to be elected president. If the space aliens land tomorrow and start recruiting colonists to populate newly terraformed planets in other solar systems, sign me up. Yeah, it’s become that absurd down here.

JOHN CHUCKMAN , February 14, 2020 at 15:22

Simply imperial rot and corruption of power on all sides.

Neither Democrats nor Republicans have an exclusive on those qualities.

Mark Thomason , February 14, 2020 at 12:37

This is a useful approach. It needs added to it the language and culture element: as if the part that wants out of the Moscow coup shares our own language and culture, while the rest of Canada does not, and the rest of Canada had gone on a spree to suppress that language and culture. It is hard to find a parallel in Canada to those facts, but it is what happened in Ukraine.

It is important to understanding to put oneself in the shoes of the other guys. It was once called walking a mile in the other guy’s moccasins, and given a Native wisdom attribution.

David G Horsman , February 14, 2020 at 12:01

I do this exercise mentally fairly often. This is the first time I saw it done in print. I would like to do an automated process.

[Feb 07, 2020] Poroshenko asked the USA help in fighting criminal cases against him in Ukraine

Feb 07, 2020 | thenewkremlinstooge.wordpress.com


Moscow Exile

July 31, 2019 at 9:08 pm
Порошенко попросил у США помощи с уголовными делами на Украине, пишут СМИ

Poroshenko has asked the US for help with criminal cases in the Ukraine, writes media
05:31
MOSCOW, 1 Jul – RIA Novosti.
The former President of the Ukraine Petro Poroshenko is in Istanbul, where he has turned to American companies to lobby for protection from criminal cases, reports " Ukraine News " with reference to sources.

It has been noted that in the Ukraine changes have been made as regards the criminal cases against Poroshenko. In particular, in May 2019, the former-president's lawyer Igor Golovan stated that these criminal cases would not entail any legal consequences, but now Poroshenko's entourage realizes that the criminal prosecution of the former president has noticeably intensified and may have consequences.

Therefore, according to the newspaper, in Turkey Poroshenko has started to lobbying U.S. companies, in particular, the BGR group, for assistance in resolving these cases.

"He is well aware that everything that happens in the RRG (State Bureau of investigation – trans. ed.) is taken very seriously, and he intends to defend himself against attacks. He can, for example, be expecting public support in Washington if there is an attempt made to arrest him", said the source.

In addition, the publication cites the words of Ukrainian political scientist Alexei Yakubin, who has noted that Poroshenko could repeat the "Saakashvili scenario".

"For example, he'll leave for treatment in London, where part of his entourage has entrenched itself. But this model complicates the public protection of his business assets within the country, which assets might be seized", he said.

The case against Poroshenko
Poroshenko has previously been involved in eleven criminal cases, in particular, as regards his abuse of power and his official position in the distribution of posts in "Tsentrenergo", his treason in connection with the incident in the Kerch Strait, his usurpation of judicial power and his misappropriation of the TV channel "Direct", his falsification of documents in the formation of Deputy factions in 2016, and his illegal appointment of a government, and the seizure of power.

In addition, as a witness, he was questioned about civilian deaths during the Euromaidan protests in 2014.

Poroshenko himself, speaking at the party congress of "European Business", said that he is responsible only before the Ukrainian people and is not afraid of persecution.

Mark Chapman August 1, 2019 at 2:44 am
Quite right, old man; keep your chin up. I daresay they're staying in quite prestigious digs in Istanbul, as befits visiting royalty. He seems to be labouring under a misapprehension that he is valuable somehow to Washington, whereas that would only be true if Washington were unwilling to work with Zelenskiy, and wanted him out of the way. So far as I can see, Washington is quite satisfied with Zelenskiy so far, while the people would not countenance a Poroshenko return. So he's not really much use, is he? Especially if the USA wishes to publicly support Zelenskiy's supposed battle with official corruption.

I could see them having a quiet word with Zelenskiy, maybe leave the old man out of it, what do you say? But Washington is already accused – with substantial justification, I would say – of running the show in Ukraine, and there are limits to how much obvious interfering it can do; especially after Biden's bragging about getting the state prosecutor fired.

Mark Chapman August 1, 2019 at 5:34 pm
Yes, I was sort of getting at the probability that Clan Poroshenko is just installed in a very nice hotel. I doubt he will want to be plunking down money for an actual property so long as the status of his assets still in Ukraine is still up in the air. I should imagine the Ukrainian government will take steps, if it has not already, to prevent his simply withdrawing their cash value.
Moscow Exile August 1, 2019 at 8:52 am
Same story from TASS [Eng]:

1 AUG, 14:07
In Saakashvili's shoes? Poroshenko asks US lobbyists to shield him from criminal charges
According to Vesti Ukraine, the ex-president sought help from the BGR Group, whose senior adviser is US Special Envoy for Ukraine Kurt Volker


Trust me!

yalensis August 1, 2019 at 4:24 pm
The thing about the pindosi, though, is that they always hedge their bets .
I vangize that they will pressure Zel to pardon Porky. So that they have a spare.
I hope I am wrong, but I don't think I am.
Mark Chapman August 1, 2019 at 5:45 pm
I doubt it, simply because it would kick the timbers right out from under Zelenskiy's anti-corruption platform, which is the issue on which he was voted in, and there would be no way to do it under the radar. The Ukrainian people must be following Porky's flight with great interest, and inferring that it means he has something to hide. Therefore an abrupt discontinuing of the pursuit, and a refocusing elsewhere, would tell them accountability is not attributed to the powerful and wealthy. Which is uhhh exactly the opposite of Zelenskiy's message.

[Jan 30, 2020] Impeachment's Biggest Absurdity Our Toxic Fixation On Useless And Corrupting Ukraine Aid

They are not helping Ukraine citizen of which after 2014 live in abject poverty. So in now way this an aid. They are arming Ukraine to kill Russians and maintain a hot spot on Russian border.
The USA, specifically Brennan, Nuland and Biden create civil war out of nothing pushing far right nationalist to suppress eastern population by brute forces (they burned alive 200 hundred or more people on Odessa and killed people in Mariupol before Donbass flared up)
They are despicable MIC bottomfeeders. Neocon calculation is that Russia will not respond to this provocation, because it is too weak after the economic rape of 1991-2000. While Putin is a very patient politician they might be wrong.
Notable quotes:
"... Authored by James Bovard via JimBovard.com, ..."
"... "corruption is positively correlated with aid received from the United States." ..."
"... "I think it makes no sense to give aid money to countries that are corrupt." ..."
"... " remains skeptical after a history of broken promises [from the Ukraine govt]. Kiev hasn't successfully completed any of a series of IMF bailout packages over the past two decades, with systemic corruption at the heart of much of that failure." ..."
"... "Most foreign aid winds up with outside consultants, the local military, corrupt bureaucrats, the new NGO [nongovernmental organizations] administrators, and Mercedes dealers." ..."
"... James Bovard is the author of " ..."
"... Attention Deficit Democracy ..."
"... The Bush Betrayal ..."
"... Terrorism and Tyranny ..."
"... ," and other books. Bovard is on the USA Today Board of Contributors. He is on Twitter at @jimbovard. His website is at ..."
"... www.jimbovard.com ..."
Jan 30, 2020 | www.zerohedge.com
Authored by James Bovard via JimBovard.com,

The campaign to convict and remove President Donald Trump in the Senate hinges on delays in disbursing U.S. aid to Ukraine. Ukraine was supposedly on the verge of great progress until Trump pulled the rug out from under the heroic salvation effort by U.S. government bureaucrats. Unfortunately, Congress has devoted a hundred times more attention to the timing of aid to Ukraine than to its effectiveness. And most of the media coverage has ignored the biggest absurdity of the impeachment fight.

The temporary postponement of the Ukrainian aid was practically irrelevant considering that U.S. assistance efforts have long fueled the poxes they promised to eradicate – especially kleptocracy, or government by thieves .

A 2002 American Economic Review analysis concluded that "increases in [foreign] aid are associated with contemporaneous increases in corruption" and that "corruption is positively correlated with aid received from the United States."

Then-President George W. Bush promised to reform foreign aid that year, declaring , "I think it makes no sense to give aid money to countries that are corrupt." Regardless, the Bush administration continued delivering billions of dollars in handouts to many of the world's most corrupt regimes .

Then-President Barack Obama, recognizing the failure of past U.S. aid efforts, proclaimed at the United Nations in 2010 that the U.S. government is " leading a global effort to combat corruption ." The following year, congressional Republicans sought to restrict foreign aid to fraud-ridden foreign regimes. Then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton wailed that restricting handouts to nations that fail anti-corruption tests "has the potential to affect a staggering number of needy aid recipients."

The Obama administration continued pouring tens of billions of U.S. tax dollars into sinkholes such as Afghanistan, which even its president, Ashraf Ghani, admitted in 2016 was "one of the most corrupt countries on earth ." John Sopko, the Special Inspector General for Afghan Reconstruction (SIGAR), declared that "U.S. policies and practices unintentionally aided and abetted corruption" in Afghanistan.

Since the end of the Soviet Union, the U.S. has provided more than $6 billion in aid to Ukraine. At the House impeachment hearings, a key anti-Trump witness was acting U.S. ambassador to the Ukraine, William B. Taylor Jr. The Washington Post hailed Taylor as someone who " spent much of the 1990s telling Ukrainian politicians that nothing was more critical to their long-term prosperity than rooting out corruption and bolstering the rule of law, in his role as the head of U.S. development assistance for post-Soviet countries." A New York Times editorial lauded Taylor and State Department deputy assistant secretary George Kent as witnesses who "came across not as angry Democrats or Deep State conspirators, but as men who have devoted their lives to serving their country."

After their testimony spurred criticism, a Washington Post headline captured the capital city's reaction: "The diplomatic corps has been wounded. The State Department needs to heal." But not nearly as much as the foreigners supposedly rescued by U.S. bureaucrats.

The Wall Street Journal reported on Oct. 31 that the International Monetary Fund, which has provided more than $20 billion in loans to Ukraine, " remains skeptical after a history of broken promises [from the Ukraine govt]. Kiev hasn't successfully completed any of a series of IMF bailout packages over the past two decades, with systemic corruption at the heart of much of that failure."

The IMF concluded that Ukraine continued to be vexed by " shortcomings in the legal framework, pervasive corruption, and large parts of the economy dominated by inefficient state-owned enterprises or by oligarchs." That last item is damning for the U.S. benevolent pretensions. If a former Soviet republic cannot even terminate its government-owned boondoggles, then why in hell was the U.S. government bankrolling them?

Transparency International, which publishes an annual Corruption Perceptions Index, shows that corruption surged in Ukraine in the late 1990s (after the U.S. decided to rescue them) and remains at abysmal levels. Ukraine is now ranked as the 120th most corrupt nation in the world -- a lower ranking than received by Egypt and Pakistan, two other major U.S. aid recipients also notorious for corruption.

Actually, the best gauge of Ukrainian corruption is the near-total collapse of its citizens' trust in government or in their own future. Since 1991, the nation has lost almost 20% of its population as citizens flee abroad like passengers leaping off a sinking ship.

And yet, the House impeachment hearings and much of the media gushed over career U.S. government officials despite their strikeouts. It was akin to a congressional committee resurrecting Col. George S. Custer in 1877 and fawning as he offered personal insights in dealing with uprisings by Sioux Indians (while carefully avoiding awkward questions about the previous year at the Little Big Horn ).

Foreign aid is virtue signaling with other people's money. As long the aid spawns press releases and photo opportunities for presidents and members of Congress and campaign donations from corporate and other beneficiaries, little else matters. Congress almost never conducts thorough investigations into the failure of aid programs despite their legendary pratfalls. The Agency for International Development ludicrously evaluated its programs in Afghanistan based on their "burn rate" – whether they were spending money as quickly as possible, almost regardless of the results. SIGAR's John Sopko "found a USAID lessons-learned report from 1980s on Afghan reconstruction but nobody at AID had read it ."

After driving around the world, investment guru Jim Rogers declared: "Most foreign aid winds up with outside consultants, the local military, corrupt bureaucrats, the new NGO [nongovernmental organizations] administrators, and Mercedes dealers." After the Obama administration promised massive aid to Ukraine in 2014, Hunter Biden jumped on the gravy train – as did legions of well-connected Washingtonians and other hustlers around the nation. Similar largesse assures that there will never be a shortage of overpaid individuals and hired think tanks ready to write op-eds or letters to the editor of the Washington Post whooping up the moral greatness of foreign aid or some such hokum.

When it comes to the failure of U.S. aid to Ukraine, almost all of Trump's congressional critics are like the " dog that didn't bark " in the Sherlock Holmes story. The real outrage is that Trump and prior presidents, with Congress cheering all the way, delivered so many U.S. tax dollars to Kiev that any reasonable person knew would be wasted. If Washington truly wants to curtail foreign corruption, ending U.S. foreign aid is the best first step.

* * *

James Bovard is the author of " Attention Deficit Democracy ," " The Bush Betrayal ," " Terrorism and Tyranny ," and other books. Bovard is on the USA Today Board of Contributors. He is on Twitter at @jimbovard. His website is at www.jimbovard.com Tags Politics


Pair Of Dimes Shift , 12 minutes ago link

ALL foreign aid is a kickback scheme.

End it!

Savyindallas , 27 minutes ago link

paying billions to corrupt Jewish Ukranians is just another way to support Israel. Christian Zionists understand and approve of this. So what's the big deal? It's free money. Money that grows on trees. What does it cost to print billions of free money by a few electronic entries? Nothing. We should print more. Free **** is a beautiful thing.

We can postpone judgment day for at least another decade or so. By then, all the smart Harvard educated guys and gals at Goldman Sachs and Wall Street will figure out how to kick the can down the road for another decade or so.

When it all collapses, half of India and Africa and central America will already have replaced what used to be the American population. The few remaining Americans aside from the immigrants will be unrecognizable anyway. many will have left. Many more will have been reduced by failure to procreate and replace themselves. Christians will be a despised,(even the idiotic Zio-Christians who looked the other way on important issues as long as we were bombing and killing for their beloved Israel) We will have a dying population as many will have chosen the gay LGBTQ lifestyle and we are replaced by subservient obedient, uneducated immigrants who are happy to work for $8 an hour and live in a single room apartment they share with other immigrant families.

NosferatuZodd , 27 minutes ago link

Ukraine was a failed state since day one and it got much worse since US/EU instigated coup. I don't see any light at the end of tunnel. Zielensky is a more friendly face, but that's it. He obviously doesn't have power to change the course. He can promise anything while abroad, but he has to appease the nazis at home or they will get rid of him. In other words Ukraine is doomed.

SadhakaPadma , 19 minutes ago link

Zielensky is more than friendly face...he signed many deals with Putin and behave as responsible politician who wanna bring normalization and peace. Same forces overthrow Yanukovitch will try it with Zielensky, because they not wanna peace, but their interest is war....so Zielensky is in danger.

various1 , 31 minutes ago link

TF are you talking about, idiot!

Ukraine has biggest potential of all countries. Has richest on a planet soil, educated European population, is poor so money go long way. And of course bridge to forcing Russia being our ally, and adhere to nationalism, vs being corrupted by globalists.

chunga , 45 minutes ago link

No ****, it's absurd. The Wretched City was practically unanimous in the screeching about sending weapons to Ukraine because Crimea voted to join Russia, something they describe up there as being "annexed". Especially so now because since then Iraq voted to kick the US out of their country and has been ignored, themselves being "annexed".

This is something that is accepted to a certain degree as a result of Bob Mueller.

wehadtopullit , 5 minutes ago link

3 words: Victoria J. Nuland

John Hansen , 49 minutes ago link

Certainly makes you wonder if there was a reason the Russians only took Crimea.

Corruption ridden Ukraine certainly is a "gift" that keeps on giving.

SadhakaPadma , 47 minutes ago link

Crimea is military important for their security...that why they had naval base there..they cant afford lose this point and Black Sea....

Soviets were not willing to colonize these satelites like Poland, Czechoslovakia etc. they were relevant after ww2 and Russians were scared of another war...day they become irrelevant thanks of new weapons they abandon these states.

Russians are not hurry up into wars.

John Hansen , 45 minutes ago link

You are missing the point.

Ukraine is a corrupt, corrupting mess, now it is the West's mess.

SadhakaPadma , 43 minutes ago link

I know they are corrupted one...but USA is careless toward Ukraine fortunes...they use them to provoke conditions to create cold war two...military industry need big enemies for sake of hundreds bilions usd profits...how would you explain your citizens you pay one third of budget and no enemies??? so Deep state want cold war two.

More than milion Ukrainians left to Russia...while EU has closed Ukrainian borders...so who care more of Ukrainian people?

John Hansen , 37 minutes ago link

They could have had their cold war for MIC without absorbing the Ukraine. The whole cold war thing is obvious and academic.

The Russians wanted the West to have Ukraine. It is like the Americans giving the aboriginals the Small Pox blankets.

The corruption in the Ukraine is like a virus and it has spread West, just look at how it has infected the US political process.

SadhakaPadma , 29 minutes ago link

Russians were victims of all of this...red line was Crimea...and Putin did right...otherwise Russian nuclear security would be doomed if you allow NATO troops to Crimea.

US politicians not do it first time...did you know most wealthy Kosovian is Magdalene All Bright?? i live in postcommunist state and whole my life witness western proxies stealing all valuable stakes here....Communism created state ownership of big industries...domestic politicians alongside western snakes steal it very ugly way.IN SO CALLED PRIVATIZATION..wheather it is Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania etc. even information networks are owed by westeners....we are absolutely blackmailed.

Russians and partly Ukrainians did not allow foreigers to entry ...they tried it..here and there something got, whole 90s was going on this big fight among Russians and plus western snakes for stakes....Putin created order in it alongside Russian oligarchy and normalization....that why Russians like him.

bismillah , 51 minutes ago link

Are these idiotic Democrats and Russia haters crazy?

Russia has a population and GDP roughly the same as Mexico and they're on the other side of the planet (unless you're in Alaska). There is exactly zero chance Russia will invade or attack Western Europe or the USA.

The USA should be concerned with the USA, and not whether Russia will act to safeguard its border.

SadhakaPadma , 53 minutes ago link

When Soviet Union left...military industry for sake of their profits needed to create big enemy....they created terrorism and islamic wars......now as it failing apart they need new enemies..big one to explain you why is necessary to give one third of your taxes into military toys...so they create conflicts around China and Russia with hope to dig in into cold war two.

Russians and Chinese have not big corporate bussines behind their military...their spending is tiny compared to US military industry profits....so they have no interest in wars...while US seek them.

Be aware Americans...your military is not only milking you, but risking of whole humanity throwing into military disasters even as an accidents . Putin explained it many times...computer supersystems can be activated so easily if some misteps happen...

MushroomCloud2020 , 56 minutes ago link

If Quid Pro Que is legal, then the swamp is drained. The swamp isn't doing anything wrong. They have been following the law all this time. Ask the president.

[Jan 29, 2020] One of the passengers killed on the the Ukrainian International Airlines Flight PS752 was a businesswoman who ran two companies involved in running illegal arms and parts for military drones to Libya.

Jan 29, 2020 | thenewkremlinstooge.wordpress.com

Jen January 25, 2020 at 8:36 pm

An unexpected bit of good news (if true) from the Ukrainian International Airlines Flight PS752 crash in Tehran: one of the passengers killed on the flight was a businesswoman who ran two companies involved in running illegal arms and parts for military drones to Libya.

"Ukrainian jet victim ran company suspected by UN of violating Libyan arms embargo"
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/24/europe/ukrainian-crash-victim-olena-malakhova-libya-iran-intl/index.html

Mark Chapman January 25, 2020 at 9:29 pm
Well, well; and the Ukrainian government backed her claims that there was no military cargo aboard the company plane that was blown up in Misrata. Makes you wonder how much jiggerypokery on the part of the Ukrainian government the USA is prepared to absorb, considering it was allegedly Solemani's plans to 'hurt Americans' that caused the USA to whack him. But here is a business associate of the Ukrainian government transferring military technology to tribal warlords in Libya.

Oh, I forgot – the USA needs to fight Russia in Ukraine so that it doesn't have to fight Russia in New York. So I guess that means they get a free pass.

Jen January 26, 2020 at 2:59 am
You have to wonder though, Malakhova was one of two Ukrainian passengers (I think) on a jet that was otherwise composed of diaspora Iranians. The plane was flying to Kiev and then presumably going straight to Toronto, to judge from the number of Iranian-background passengers with Canadian passports. What business did Malakhova have that she had been in Tehran to catch a UIA flight to go to Kiev? She must have had a reason to be there, if not to go sightseeing.
Jen January 26, 2020 at 3:21 am
Lo and behold! Able to answer my own query about the reason for Malakhova's presence in Tehran within a matter of minutes! She wasn't in Tehran just to admire the touristy sights.

It is now confirmed: Olena Malakhova, director of #SkyAviaTrans which played key role in illegal weapon smuggling from #Turkey to #Libya is among victims of Flight #PS752 shot-down! She was in #Iran to discuss about one of her businessjets in use as an Air Taxi in #Tehran . https://t.co/TYWk6DgwV7 pic.twitter.com/ztEu4ETwrT

-- Babak Taghvaee (@BabakTaghvaee) January 24, 2020

Air taxis would be very convenient for ferrying small quantities of goods on short trips within Iran or from Iran to somewhere else not far from the Iranian border – like Afghanistan on one side, Azerbaijan on another side or Kurdish-held northern Iraq and Turkey on yet another side.

Like Like

[Jan 29, 2020] An intricate balancing act back when Yanukovych was running Ukraine, it was so corrupt, you couldn't believe it. Now that Ukraine's elections are free and fair, and an informed and savvy electorate makes wise and free choices, it's well, it's .how can we put this?

Jan 29, 2020 | thenewkremlinstooge.wordpress.com

Mark Chapman January 25, 2020 at 8:00 pm

An intricate balancing act – back when Yanukovych was running Ukraine, it was so corrupt, you couldn't believe it. Now that Ukraine's elections are free and fair, and an informed and savvy electorate makes wise and free choices, it's well, it's .how can we put this? It's not worse, of course it's not worse. It's more bad, like.

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/ukraines-illegal-amber-mining-boom-is-scarring-the-earth-and-making-criminal-gangs-rich/ar-BBZanur

Here's how it is described by MSN News;

"More than 100 people died in Kiev during clashes between protestors and security forces until finally, Yanukovych fled to Russia in February 2014.

An interim government was put in place and elections were held. But the instability created a vacuum. Russia annexed Crimea; organised crime flourished.

Already vulnerable to corruption, Ukraine's institutions of state stumbled. Human trafficking and drug-running syndicates became emboldened, seizing profit-taking opportunities wherever they lay. In the north and the west of the country, there were few as lucrative as amber."

That's the abbreviated version, of course, without going into details on the heroism of the 'heavenly hundred' and Yanukovych's iron fist. But after the brutal dictator was driven out – more than 5 fuckin' years ago, I feel obliged to point out – well, Ukrainian state institutions 'stumbled'.

Oh, is that what you call it when the people's standard of living falls off a cliff and stays there? Has the Ukrainian living standard ever reached the level it was when Yanukovych was last in power? Not even close. The currency remains in the toilet, and the government has regularly ratcheted up utility costs in compliance with the IMF's instructions, in order to qualify for further handouts. Quite an extended stumble, you might say.

Only two companies are authorized to trade in amber in Ukraine; a single small and unnamed private company, and the much larger state-owned Ukrainian Amber. The latter declared only 720 kg annually of the annual 300 tonnes extracted in 2016 and 2017. 90% of extracted Ukrainian amber is stolen and sold for criminal proceeds. Poroshenko and Zelensky have certainly made tremendous inroads on corruption.

[Jan 28, 2020] Impeachment Trump Team Nails Bidens, Burisma, And Obama's Hot-Mic Moment With Russia

Jan 27, 2020 | www.zerohedge.com

Impeachment: Trump Team Nails Bidens, Burisma, And Obama's Hot-Mic Moment With Russia by Tyler Durden Mon, 01/27/2020 - 20:05 0 SHARES

President Trump's defense team cut straight to the heart of the impeachment on Monday, insisting that Democrats have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the Bidens didn't engage in textbook corruption in Ukraine - and that President Trump's request to investigate it was out of line.

Former Florida attorney general Pam Bondi, a recent addition to the White House communications team, walked the Senate through the entire malarkey for 30 minutes , including Hunter Biden's 'nepotistic at best, nefarious at worst' board seat at Ukrainian gas giant Burisma.

"All we are saying is that there was a basis to talk about this, to raise this issue, and that is enough," said Bondi, who noted that Hunter Biden was paid over $83,000 per month to sit on Burisma's board even though he had zero experience in natural gas or Ukrainian relations while his father was Vice President and in charge of Ukraine policy for the United States.

Pam Bondi explains the Bidens' connection to the corrupt Ukrainian gas company Burisma https://t.co/SpmArCYbb7 pic.twitter.com/aKNqQKo8cl

-- RNC Research (@RNCResearch) January 27, 2020

https://www.youtube.com/embed/6kqmojRRqB0

Why should the American people care about Hunter Biden & #Burisma ?

The answer is simple: there is significant evidence of corruption.

WATCH Pam Bondi break down #BurismaBiden . ⤵️ pic.twitter.com/wokNp2vpXl

-- Senator Ted Cruz (@SenTedCruz) January 28, 2020

Even CNN had to give it to the Trump team...

CNN's Toobin: Bondi showed Hunter Biden's "sleazy" hiring by Burisma https://t.co/PgZePnlVHE pic.twitter.com/d2N6cXki46

-- RNC Research (@RNCResearch) January 27, 2020

Trump attorney Eric Herschmann said that Democrats have been "circling the wagons" to protect the Bidens - and are refusing to investigate the Bidens, claiming without conducting an investigation that all allegations against them are 'debunked.'

Herschmann: Democrats "circling the wagons" to protect Joe Biden during impeachment proceedings https://t.co/HUUzQN4MX4 pic.twitter.com/qzmsVbetDO

-- RNC Research (@RNCResearch) January 27, 2020

Herschmann then laid into former President Obama, who was caught on a hot mic asking Russian President Dmitry Medvedev for "space" until after his election .

One can only imagine what would happen if the Left & the media applied their manufactured outrage to Obama's actions & statements.

Remember when Obama was caught asking Russian President Dmitry Medvedev for "space" until after his election?

Democrats hope you don't remember. pic.twitter.com/dWy24Qc7TD

-- Rep Andy Biggs (@RepAndyBiggsAZ) January 27, 2020

Attorney Jay Sekulow argued that Democrats have been trying to "interfere with the President's capability to govern" since he was elected.

. @JaySekulow is spot on.

Democrats have been trying to "interfere with the President's capability to govern" since the day @realDonaldTrump was elected. #StopTheMadness pic.twitter.com/ft7hkk6EsE

-- Ronna McDaniel (@GOPChairwoman) January 27, 2020

CheapBastard , 31 minutes ago link

Jane Raskin, another Trump lawyer, gave a brilliant defense also:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opUEUiOgz5Y

Everyone should listen to her 15 minute defense and learn just in case you are attacked some day with false allegations.

[Jan 27, 2020] The Dangers of Conflating and Inflating Interests

Notable quotes:
"... Taylor exaggerates what the conflict is about by saying that Ukraine is defending "the West." That's not true. Ukraine is defending itself. The U.S. does not have a vital interest in this conflict, but Taylor talks about it as if we do. He says that the relationship with Ukraine is "key" to our national security, but that is simply false. To say that it is key to our national security means that we are supposed to believe that it is crucially important to our national security. That suggests that U.S. national security would seriously compromised if that relationship weakened, but that doesn't make any sense. We usually don't even talk about our major treaty allies this way, so what justification is there for describing a relationship with a weak partner government like this? ..."
"... The op-ed reads like a textbook case of clientitis, in which a former U.S. envoy ends up making the Ukrainian government's argument for them ..."
"... To support Ukraine is to support a rules-based international order that enabled major powers in Europe to avoid war for seven decades. It is to support democracy over autocracy. It is to support freedom over unfreedom. Most Americans do. ..."
"... These make for catchy slogans, but they are lousy policy arguments. This rhetoric veers awfully close to saying that you aren't on the side of freedom if you don't support a particular policy option. In my experience, advocates for more aggressive measures use rhetoric like this because the rest of their argument isn't very strong. It is possible to reject illegal military interventions of all governments without wanting to throw weapons at the problem. ..."
"... Taylor has set up the policy argument in such a way that there seems to be no choice, but the U.S. doesn't have to support Ukraine's war effort. He oversells Ukraine's importance to the U.S. to justify U.S. support, because an accurate assessment would make the current policy of arming their government much harder to defend. Ukraine isn't really that important to U.S. security and our security doesn't require us to provide military assistance to them. Of course, our government has chosen to do it anyway, but this is just one more optional entanglement that the U.S. could have avoided without jeopardizing American or allied security. ..."
Jan 27, 2020 | www.theamericanconservative.com

ormer ambassador William Taylor wrote an op-ed on Ukraine in an attempt to answer Pompeo's question about whether Americans care about Ukraine. It is not very persuasive. For one thing, he starts off by exaggerating the importance of the conflict between Russia and Ukraine to make it seem as if the U.S. has a major stake in the outcome:

Here's why the answer should be yes: Ukraine is defending itself and the West against Russian attack. If Ukraine succeeds, we succeed. The relationship between the United States and Ukraine is key to our national security, and Americans should care about Ukraine.

Taylor exaggerates what the conflict is about by saying that Ukraine is defending "the West." That's not true. Ukraine is defending itself. The U.S. does not have a vital interest in this conflict, but Taylor talks about it as if we do. He says that the relationship with Ukraine is "key" to our national security, but that is simply false. To say that it is key to our national security means that we are supposed to believe that it is crucially important to our national security. That suggests that U.S. national security would seriously compromised if that relationship weakened, but that doesn't make any sense. We usually don't even talk about our major treaty allies this way, so what justification is there for describing a relationship with a weak partner government like this?

The op-ed reads like a textbook case of clientitis, in which a former U.S. envoy ends up making the Ukrainian government's argument for them. The danger of exaggerating U.S. interests and conflating them with Ukraine's is that we fool ourselves into thinking that we are acting out of necessity and in our own defense when we are really choosing to take sides in a conflict that does not affect our security. This is the kind of thinking that encourages people to spout nonsense about "fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them here." If we view Ukraine as "the front line" of a larger struggle, that will also make it more difficult to resolve the conflict. When a local conflict is turned into a proxy fight between great powers, the local people will be the ones made to suffer to serve the ambitions of the patrons. Once the U.S. insists that its own security is bound up with the outcome of this conflict, there is an incentive to be considered the "winner," but the reality is that Ukraine will always matter less to the U.S. than it does to Russia.

If this relationship were so important to U.S. security, how is it that the U.S. managed to get along just fine for decades after the end of the Cold War when that relationship was not particularly strong? As recently as the Obama administration, our government did not consider Ukraine to be important enough to supply with weapons. Ukraine was viewed correctly as being of peripheral interest to the U.S., and nothing has changed in the years since then to make it more important.

Taylor keeps repeating that "Ukraine is the front line" in a larger conflict between Russia and the West, but that becomes true only if Western governments choose to treat it as one. He concludes his op-ed with a series of ideological assertions:

To support Ukraine is to support a rules-based international order that enabled major powers in Europe to avoid war for seven decades. It is to support democracy over autocracy. It is to support freedom over unfreedom. Most Americans do.

These make for catchy slogans, but they are lousy policy arguments. This rhetoric veers awfully close to saying that you aren't on the side of freedom if you don't support a particular policy option. In my experience, advocates for more aggressive measures use rhetoric like this because the rest of their argument isn't very strong. It is possible to reject illegal military interventions of all governments without wanting to throw weapons at the problem.

Taylor has set up the policy argument in such a way that there seems to be no choice, but the U.S. doesn't have to support Ukraine's war effort. He oversells Ukraine's importance to the U.S. to justify U.S. support, because an accurate assessment would make the current policy of arming their government much harder to defend. Ukraine isn't really that important to U.S. security and our security doesn't require us to provide military assistance to them. Of course, our government has chosen to do it anyway, but this is just one more optional entanglement that the U.S. could have avoided without jeopardizing American or allied security.

[Jan 22, 2020] Fact-Checking Joe Biden's Debunked Conspiracy Theory Memo Telling Liberal Media What To Say About Ukraine

Jan 22, 2020 | www.zerohedge.com

Via JohnSolomonReports.com,

Former vice president Joe Biden's extraordinary campaign memo this week imploring U.S. news media to reject the allegations surrounding his son Hunter's work for a Ukrainian natural gas company makes several bold declarations.

The memo by Biden campaign aides Kate Bedingfield and Tony Blinken specifically warned reporters covering the impeachment trial they would be acting as "enablers of misinformation" if they repeated allegations that the former vice president forced the firing of Ukraine's top prosecutor, who was investigating Burisma Holdings, where Hunter Biden worked as a highly compensated board member.

Biden's memo argues there is no evidence that the former vice president's or Hunter Biden's conduct raised any concern, and that Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin's investigation was "dormant" when the vice president forced the prosecutor to be fired in Ukraine.

The memo calls the allegation a "conspiracy theory" (and, in full disclosure, blames my reporting for the allegations surfacing last year.)

But the memo omits critical impeachment testimony and other evidence that paint a far different portrait than Biden's there's-nothing-to-talk-about-here rebuttal.

Here are the facts, with links to public evidence, so you can decide for yourself.

Fact: Joe Biden admitted to forcing Shokin's firing in March 2016 .

It is irrefutable, and not a conspiracy theory, that Joe Biden bragged in this 2018 speech to a foreign policy group that he threatened in March 2016 to withhold $1 billion in U.S. aid to Kiev if then-Ukraine's president Petro Poroshenko didn't immediately fire Shokin.

"I said, 'You're not getting the billion.' I'm going to be leaving here in, I think it was about six hours. I looked at them and said: 'I'm leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting the money,'" Biden told the 2018 audience in recounting what he told Poroshenko

"Well, son of a bitch, he got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at the time," Biden told the Council on Foreign Relations event.

Fact: Shokin's prosecutors were actively investigating Burisma when he was fired.

While some news organizations cited by the Biden memo have reported the investigation was "dormant" in March 2016, official files released by the Ukrainian prosecutor general's office, in fact, show there was substantial investigative activity in the weeks just before Joe Biden forced Shokin's firing.

The corruption investigations into Burisma and its founder began in 2014. Around the same time, Hunter Biden and his U.S. business partner Devon Archer were added to Burisma's board , and their Rosemont Seneca Bohais firm began receiving regular $166,666 monthly payments, which totaled nearly $2 million a year. Both banks records seized by the FBI in America and Burisma's own ledgers in Ukraine confirm these payments.

To put the payments in perspective, the annual amounts paid by Burisma to Hunter Biden's and Devon Archer's Rosemont Seneca Bohais firm were 30 times the average median annual household income for everyday Americans.

For a period of time in 2015, those investigations were stalled as Ukraine was creating a new FBI-like law enforcement agency known as the National Anti-Corruption Bureau ((NABU) to investigate endemic corruption in the former Soviet republic.

There was friction between NABU and the prosecutor general's office for a while. And then in September 2015, then-U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt demanded more action in the Burisma investigation. You can read his speech here . Activity ramped up extensively soon after.

In December 2015, the prosecutor's files show, Shokin's office transferred the evidence it had gathered against Burisma to NABU for investigation.

In early February 2016, Shokin's office secured a court order allowing prosecutors to re-seize some of the Burisma founder's property, including his home and luxury car, as part of the ongoing probe.

Two weeks later, in mid-February 2016, Latvian law enforcement sent this alert to Ukrainian prosecutors flagging several payments from Burisma to American accounts as "suspicious." The payments included some monies to Hunter Biden's and Devon Archer's firm. Latvian authorities recently confirmed it sent the alert.

Shokin told both me and ABC News that just before he was fired under pressure from Joe Biden he also was making plans to interview Hunter Biden.

Fact: Burisma's lawyers in 2016 were pressing U.S. and Ukrainian authorities to end the corruption investigations.

Burisma's main U.S. lawyer John Buretta acknowledged in this February 2017 interview with a Ukraine newspaper that the company remained under investigation in 2016, until he negotiated for one case to be dismissed and the other to be settled by payment of a large tax penalty.

Documents released under an open records lawsuit show Burisma legal team was pressuring the State Department in February 2016 to end the corruption allegations against the gas firm and specifically invoked Hunter Biden's name as part of the campaign. You can read those documents here .

In addition, immediately after Joe Biden succeeded in getting Shokin ousted, Burisma's lawyers sought to meet with his successor as chief prosecutor to settle the case. Here is the Ukrainian prosecutors' summary memo of one of their meetings with the firm's lawyers.

Fact: There is substantial evidence Joe Biden and his office knew about the Burisma probe and his son's role as a board member .

The New York Times reported in this December 2015 article that the Burisma investigation was ongoing and Hunter Biden's role in the company was undercutting Joe Biden's push to fight Ukrainian corruption. The article quoted the vice president's office.

In addition, Hunter Biden acknowledged in this interview he had discussed his Burisma job with his father on one occasion and that his father responded by saying he hoped the younger Biden knew what he was doing.

And when America's new ambassador to Ukraine was being confirmed in 2016 before the Senate she was specifically advised to refer questions about Hunter Biden, Burisma and the probe to Joe Biden's VP office, according to these State Department documents .

Fact: Federal Ethics rules requires government officials to avoid taking policy actions affecting close relatives.

Office of Government Ethics rules require all government officials to recuse themselves from any policy actions that could impact a close relative or cause a reasonable person to see the appearance of a conflict of interest or question their impartiality.

"The impartiality rule requires an employee to consider appearance concerns before participating in a particular matter if someone close to the employee is involved as a party to the matter," these rules state. "This requirement to refrain from participating (or recuse) is designed to avoid the appearance of favoritism in government decision-making."

Fact: Multiple State Department officials testified the Bidens' dealings in Ukraine created the appearance of a conflict of interest .

In House impeachment testimony , Obama-era State Department officials declared the juxtaposition of Joe Biden overseeing Ukraine policy, including the anti-corruption efforts, at the same his son Hunter worked for a Ukraine gas firm under corruption investigation created the appearance of a conflict of interest.

In fact, deputy assistant secretary George Kent said he was so concerned by Burisma's corrupt reputation that he blocked a project the State Department had with Burisma and tried to warn Joe Biden's office about the concerns about an apparent conflict of interest.

Likewise, the House Democrats' star impeachment witness, former U.S. Ambassador Marie Yovanovich, agreed the Bidens' role in Ukraine created an ethic issue. "I think that it could raise the appearance of a conflict of interest," she testified. You can read her testimony here .

Fact: Hunter Biden acknowleged he may have gotten his Burisma job solely because of his last name .

In this interview last summer , Hunter Biden said it might have been a "mistake" to serve on the Burisma board and that it was possible he was hired simply because of his proximity to the vice president.

"If your last name wasn't Biden, do you think you would've been asked to be on the board of Burisma?," a reporter asked.

"I don't know. I don't know. Probably not, in retrospect," Hunter Biden answered. "But that's -- you know -- I don't think that there's a lot of things that would have happened in my life if my last name wasn't Biden."

Fact: Ukraine law enforcement reopened the Burisma investigation in early 2019, well before President Trump mentioned the matter to Ukraine's new president Vlodymyr Zelensky .

This may be the single biggest under-reported fact in the impeachment scandal: four months before Trump and Zelensky had their infamous phone call, Ukraine law enforcement officials officially reopened their investigation into Burisma and its founder.

The effort began independent of Trump or his lawyer Rudy Giuliani's legal work. In fact, it was NABU -- the very agency Joe Biden and the Obama administration helped start -- that recommended in February 2019 to reopen the probe.

NABU director Artem Sytnyk made this announcement that he was recommending a new notice of suspicion be opened to launch the case against Burisma and its founder because of new evidence uncovered by detectives.

Ukrainian officials said that new evidence included records suggesting a possible money laundering scheme dating to 2010 and continuing until 2015.

A month later in March 2019, Deputy Prosecutor General Konstantin Kulyk officially filed this notice of suspicion re-opening the case.

And Reuters recently quoted Ukrainian officials as saying the ongoing probe was expanded to allegations of theft of public funds.

The implications of this timetable are significant to the Trump impeachment trial because the president couldn't have pressured Ukraine to re-open the investigation in July 2019 when Kiev had already done so on its own, months earlier.

For a complete timeline of all the key events in the Ukraine scandal, you can click here .


ibeanbanned , 4 minutes ago link

Biden may have dementia but that doesn't mean he can't do some pushups for his dullard supporters.

American Dissident , 8 minutes ago link

How low will Organized Criminal Joe go?

# New National Poll: Sanders 27% Biden 24% Warren 14% Buttigieg 11% Bloomberg 5% Klobucher 4% Yang 4% Steyer 2%.

Easyp , 10 minutes ago link

The Clinton's, Obama and the Biden family sum up everything that is rotten about the Democrat Party.

The key players should be in jail not Washington.

new game , 12 minutes ago link

welcome to Mexamurica, land of the highest bidder...

dead hobo , 13 minutes ago link

You forgot the parts about how fake law enforcement likes to ignore everything.

ZorbasStep , 13 minutes ago link

Establishment Democrats are gaslighting people. This is not a qualitative improvement over what the establishment Republicans do. In fact, it makes the establishment republicans correct when the gaslighting is pointed out. The Trump Derangement Syndrome and corrupt basis of the Democrats only helps get Trump re elected. The Democrats have no better plan, and thus will be responsible if Trump gets re elected.

mr1963 , 15 minutes ago link

They're all scumbags, at all levels, and if you ain't used to it by now, you've been living under a rock. That said, it's nice to have some reporting on it and I hope all levels of government abuse will get exposed. I'm assuming it's about the same time the little bug eyed broad takes a job at an oil company...

Lawn.Dart , 16 minutes ago link

~"I said, ‘You’re not getting the billion.’ I’m going to be leaving here in, I think it was about six hours. I looked at them and said: ‘I’m leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money,’” Biden told the 2018 audience in recounting what he told Poroshenko

“Well, son of a bitch, he got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at the time,” Biden told the Council on Foreign Relations event."

Isn't this the same fuckin thing as???... **** it, nevermind

E5 , 30 minutes ago link

"...Biden told the Council on Foreign Relations event."

A group that coordinated "policy" between the press , government, and corporations. What more proof does anyone need? It is private!!

SEIZE THEIR SERVERS AT THE CFR!

dead hobo , 31 minutes ago link

Yet nobody has been arrested, indicted, or accused of anything except in odd corners of the internet. Although, there have been a couple of fake show investigations.

So, the only conclusion I can draw is it's legal if the Democrats or Establishment do it. And anyone who says otherwise needs to be jailed, ruined, or murdered, such as in the case of Seth Rich.

MalteseFalcon , 36 minutes ago link

Joe Biden is on tape extorting the government of Ukraine for personal profit.

This is a Federal felony.

Everyone has seen it, and everyone understands what it means.

This fact is not going away, even with a gallon of MSM eye bleach.

Joe Biden has not been arrested.

No one in the DOJ, including the nation's Chief Law Enforcer has called for Joe Biden's arrest.

Joe Biden's candidacy has not been withdrawn.

Such is 2020 America.

E5 , 26 minutes ago link

seize the servers at the CFR.

All members are press, state department, and American oligarchs. Trust ME, I know what goes on there. Investigate them ALL and keep all of the investigation interviews in an open public domain.

Force people to distance themselves and quit membership and you can pick them off as they conspire to reform their separate working groups.

John C Durham , 34 minutes ago link

An excellent report, organized and complete. Very useful for pointed arguments against the stressed impeachment claims.

Nunyadambizness , 38 minutes ago link

Facts? Democraps don't care about facts, don't you know that already? Democraps only care about feeeeeelings, and how it makes someone feeeeel... Facts are just those things they just discard, and then hope that we the Sheeple have short memories. Biden? Guilty as sin. Facts? Ignore. Same as Cankles, Comey, Strozk, Page, etc., etc., etc., ad infinitum. If you're a Democrap, you get off scot free, then lie about everything.

[Jan 21, 2020] Propaganda and Lies Iran and Ukrainian Flight PS752 - Global ResearchGlobal Research - Centre for Research on Globalization

Jan 21, 2020 | www.globalresearch.ca

Propaganda and Lies: Iran and Ukrainian Flight PS752 Exploited to further fan the flames of unrest in Iran. By Kurt Nimmo Global Research, January 21, 2020 Region: Middle East & North Africa Theme: Intelligence , Media Disinformation , US NATO War Agenda In-depth Report: IRAN: THE NEXT WAR?

Here is the cardinal rule about government -- everything it says through its spokespersons, hired guns, public relations adepts, and the mockingbird corporate media should be considered a self-serving lie, or at best a distortion hammered into shape to fit a predefined agenda.

For instance, we should question who is ultimately responsible for the shootdown of the Ukrainian airliner in Tehran following the assassination of Qassem Soleimani.

Former CIA military intelligence officer Philip Giraldi believes there is a possibility Ukraine International Airlines flight PS752 was a false flag designed to put further pressure on the government of Iran and feed the USAID "opposition" to the mullahs.

Giraldi writes "there just might be considerably more to the story involving cyberwarfare carried out by the U.S. and possibly Israeli governments."

False Flag? Fmr CIA Officer Suggests US Hacked Ukrainian Plane Transponder To Provoke Iran Shootdown https://t.co/DHpDjGrIGf

-- zerohedge (@zerohedge) January 19, 2020

What seems to have been a case of bad judgements and human error does, however, include some elements that have yet to be explained. The Iranian missile operator reportedly experienced considerable "jamming" and the planes transponder switched off and stopped transmitting several minutes before the missiles were launched. There were also problems with the communication network of the air defense command, which may have been related.

Giraldi explains the

SA-15 Tor defense system used by Iran has one major vulnerability. It can be hacked or "spoofed," permitting an intruder to impersonate a legitimate user and take control. The United States Navy and Air Force reportedly have developed technologies "that can fool enemy radar systems with false and deceptively moving targets." Fooling the system also means fooling the operator. The Guardian has also reported independently how the United States military has long been developing systems that can from a distance alter the electronics and targeting of Iran's available missiles.

Naturally, this possibility is not even mentioned by the corporate war propaganda media, with the notable exception of The Guardian. Instead, we are pelted with tweets and news articles purporting to show just how angry the Iranian people supposedly are over the shootdown, accidental or otherwise.

Kimia Alizadeh, the only Iranian woman to win an Olympic medal, announced that she had defected. She is part of growing public outrage in Iran after the military admitted to shooting down a Ukraine International Airlines jet. https://t.co/NkwtCTP0yw

-- New York Times World (@nytimesworld) January 13, 2020

Protests erupt in Iran after country admits to downing Ukraine plane https://t.co/Nsg0v34rGQ pic.twitter.com/MJk17XVJV9

-- The Hill (@thehill) January 12, 2020

Iran reporters quit state TV amid protests over Ukraine flight shootdown https://t.co/0ZOQWT2K8l

-- Newsweek (@Newsweek) January 13, 2020

The establishment media, long-serving as war propagandists, would have you believe the people of Iran care more about the shootdown of an passenger airliner than the four-decade long economic war against them waged by the USG, Israel, and Saudia Arabia -- a war that has the possibility of breaking out into a conflict that will kill far more than the 176 who died when two missiles hit flight PS752.

This reminds me of a murderous trick pulled by the Israelis. In September 2018, Syrian anti-aircraft defenses shot down a Russian military plane near the Hmeimim airbase where the Russians stage military operations against USG supported terrorists in Syria (and invited, along with Iran and Hezbollah, to do so by Syria, unlike the illegal American occupation and the apparently endless Israeli air raids).

"A Russian military spokesman said Israeli F-16 pilots were using the Russian plane as a shield while carrying out missile strikes against targets in Syria's Latakia province and put it in the line of fire from Syrian anti-aircraft batteries," The Guardian reported at the time.

Russia's defence minister, Sergei Shoigu, told a senior Israeli official that Israel bore "full responsibility" for the incident and the death of the Russian crew, a military spokesman said later on Tuesday. Israel's ambassador in Moscow was summoned to the Russian foreign ministry over the incident.

Putin let it go, however, realizing that pushing the issue too far would worsen the conflict and possibly result in further Russian casualities.

Such caution, however, cannot be attributed to the USG and certainly not Israel. Bibi Netanyahu, the Israeli PM, said Bashar al-Assad and the Syrians were solely responsible for the attack.

No such caution or diplomacy can be expected from the USG and its current loudmouth know-nothing president, Donald Trump. The death of nearly two hundred people is simply an excuse to whip up hysteria and push forward the covert war against Iran.

First and foremost, when you read the "news" dispensed by the war propaganda media, you should assume, unless otherwise proven and verified independently, that what they say about Iran and the Middle East is nothing less than a carelessly and hastily assembled pack of lies, distortion, and omissions, all designed to destroy Iran and kill thousands, possibly millions of innocent men, women, and children.

*

Note to readers: please click the share buttons above or below. Forward this article to your email lists. Crosspost on your blog site, internet forums. etc.

Kurt Nimmo writes on his blog, Another Day in the Empire, where this article was originally published. He is a frequent contributor to Global Research.

[Jan 21, 2020] Given that the US military has known capabilities to alter or mask IFF transponder signals, as does the Israeli regime, it is entirely possible that this tragedy, which led some protesters to blame the Iranian government, may have been deliberately caused by the US in collusion with its Zionist ally in hopes of triggering their goal of regime change

Jan 21, 2020 | www.moonofalabama.org

Smith , Jan 21 2020 18:53 utc | 36

An update for Flight 752 storey from Press TV:

"The accidental and most regrettable downing of Ukrainian International Airlines Flight PS-752, may involve more than human error under incredibly tense conditions. With the plane's IFF transponder switched off, the Tor missile defense system, which had reverted to manual operation because of an unknown source jamming communications, would have automatically identified the plane as "hostile". The Iranian missile operator, unable to contact higher-ups for verification due to the disrupted communications and given the high level of alert, had little basis to question the hostile tag applied by Tor to the aircraft.

Given that the US military has known capabilities to alter or mask IFF transponder signals, as does the Israeli regime, it is entirely possible that this tragedy, which led some protesters to blame the Iranian government, may have been deliberately caused by the US in collusion with its Zionist ally in hopes of triggering their goal of regime change.

While no clear evidence of tampering with the transponder has surfaced as yet, it is known that the 737-800, whose registration or "tail number" was UR-PSR, was photographed at the Israeli entity's Ben Gurion Airport five times since March of 2017, the last time being on October 18, 2019 at approximately 2:40 in the afternoon."


ADKC , Jan 21 2020 19:02 utc | 38

According to Reuters, Iran have confirmed that two Tor missiles were fired at PS752.

Iran Seeks Help Reading Downed Planes Black Boxes in New Standoff

PavewayIV , Jan 21 2020 19:39 utc | 45
Smith@36 - PressTV: "..With the plane's IFF transponder switched off,..."

Civilian aircraft have ATC SSR radar transponders, not military IFF transponders.

IFF aircraft interrogations are ALWAYS military only and ALWAYS encrypted. Their only job, if used by the TOR, is to confirm that a radar target was an Iranian military aircraft. PS752 1) couldn't understand encrypted TOR IFF interrogations, 2) wouldn't be able to provide encrypted replies to any TOR IFF interrogations, and 3) would still be considered "not an Iranian military aircraft" by the TOR. PS752's transponder would need a military IFF encoder/decoder which it does not have.

Likewise, TORs and their acquisition radars DO NOT have civilian ATC SSR radar capabilities to identify civilian aircraft. They do NOT interrogate civilian aircraft for ID, altitude, GPS or any other information, nor do they listen for civilian aircraft ADS-B broadcasts which also provide that information.

Surveillance radars higher up in the air defense network may have civilian aircraft ID capability and can assign appropriate IDs to radar targets BEFORE they appear on the TORs radar screen, but that requires a good data link to the network. That encrypted data link (also used for voice communications) was down at the time, and any ID information that may have been assigned by higher layers of the Iranian AD network wouldn't have appeared on the TOR or been considered by its classification and targeting software.

Sorry - I don't know how else to explain this. PressTV doesn't understand the distinction, nor does it understand the TORs capabilities.

Hausmeister , Jan 21 2020 22:26 utc | 58
"Sorry - I don't know how else to explain this. PressTV doesn't understand the distinction, nor does it understand the TORs capabilities."

Posted by: PavewayIV | Jan 21 2020 19:39 utc | 45

But 7 civilian planes had passed that area before. How to explain that?

/div> schroedingersrat 11 hours ago remove Share link Copy Key Architect of 2003 Iraq War Is Now a Key Architect of Trump Iran Policy

https://theintercept.com/2020/01/16/david-wurmser-iran-suleimani-iraq-war/

schroedingersrat 11 hours ago remove Share link Copy Key Architect of 2003 Iraq War Is Now a Key Architect of Trump Iran Policy

https://theintercept.com/2020/01/16/david-wurmser-iran-suleimani-iraq-war/ /div

[Jan 21, 2020] Bernie Sanders Walks Straight Into the Russiagate Trap

Jan 21, 2020 | www.strategic-culture.org

Daniel Lazare January 20, 2020 © Photo: Wikimedia The New York Times caused a mini-commotion last week with a front-page story suggesting that Russian intelligence had hacked a Ukrainian energy firm known as Burisma Holdings in order to get dirt on Joe Biden and help Donald Trump win re-election.

But the article was flimsy even by Russiagate standards, and so certain questions inevitably arise. What was it really about? Who's behind it? Who's the real target?

Here's a quick answer. It was about boosting Joe Biden, and its real target was his chief rival, Bernie Sanders. And poor, inept Bernie walked straight into the trap.

The article was flimsy because rather than saying straight out that Russian intelligence hacked Burisma, the company notorious for hiring Biden's son, Hunter, for $50,000 a month job, reporters Nicole Perlroth and Matthew Rosenberg had to rely on unnamed "security experts" to say it for them. While suggesting that the hackers were looking for dirt, they didn't quite say that as well. Instead, they admitted that "it is not yet clear what the hackers found, or precisely what they were searching for."

So we have no idea what they were up to, if anything at all. But the Times then quoted "experts" to the effect that "the timing and scale of the attacks suggest that the Russians could be searching for potentially embarrassing material on the Bidens – the same kind of information that Mr. Trump wanted from Ukraine when he pressed for an investigation of the Bidens and Burisma, setting off a chain of events that led to his impeachment." Since Trump and the Russians are seeking the same information, they must be in cahoots, which is what Democrats have been saying from the moment Trump took office. Given the lack of evidence, this was meaningless as well.

But then came the kicker: two full paragraphs in which a Biden campaign spokesman was permitted to expound on the notion that the Russians hacked Burisma because Biden is the candidate that they and Trump fear the most.

"Donald Trump tried to coerce Ukraine into lying about Joe Biden and a major bipartisan, international anti-corruption victory because he recognized that he can't beat the vice president," the spokesman, Andrew Bates, said. "Now we know that Vladimir Putin also sees Joe Biden as a threat. Any American president who had not repeatedly encouraged foreign interventions of this kind would immediately condemn this attack on the sovereignty of our elections."

If Biden is the number-one threat, then Sanders is not, presumably because the Times sees him as soft on Moscow. If so, it means that he could be in for the same neo-McCarthyism that antiwar candidate Tulsi Gabbard encountered last October when Hillary Clinton blasted her as "the favorite of the Russians." Gabbard had the good sense to blast her right back.

"Thank you @Hillary Clinton. You, the queen of warmongers, embodiment of corruption, and personification of the rot that has sickened the Democratic Party for so long, have finally come out from behind the curtain. From the day I announced my candidacy, there has been a concerted campaign to destroy my reputation. We wondered who was behind it and why. Now we know – it was always you, through your proxies and powerful allies in the corporate media and war machine ."

If only Sanders did the same. But instead he put out a statement filled with the usual anti-Russian clichés:

"The 2020 election is likely to be the most consequential election in modern American history, and I am alarmed by new reports that Russia recently hacked into the Ukrainian gas company at the center of the impeachment trial, as well as Russia's plans to once again meddle in our elections and in our democracy. After our intelligence agencies unanimously agreed that Russia interfered in the 2016 election, including with thousands of paid ads on Facebook, the New York Times now reports that Russia likely represents the biggest threat of election meddle in 2020, including through disinformation campaigns, promoting hatred, hacking into voting systems, and by exploiting the political divisions sewn [sic] by Donald Trump ."

And so on for another 250 words. Not only did the statement put him in bed with the intelligence agencies, but it makes him party to the big lie that the Kremlin was responsible for putting Trump over the top in 2016.

Let's get one thing straight. Yes, Russian intelligence may have hacked the Democratic National Committee. But cybersecurity was so lax that others may have been rummaging about as well. (CrowdStrike, the company called in to investigate the hack, says it found not one but two cyber-intruders.) Notwithstanding the Mueller report, all the available evidence indicates that Russia did not then pass along thousands of DNC emails that Wikileaks published in July 2016. (Julian Assange's statement six months later that "our source is not the Russian government and it is not a state party" remains uncontroverted.) Similarly, there's no evidence that the Kremlin had anything to do with the $45,000 worth of Facebook ads purchased by a St. Petersburg company known as the Internet Research Agency – Robert Mueller's 2018 indictment of the IRA was completely silent on the subject of a Kremlin connection – and no evidence that the ads, which were politically all over the map, had a remotely significant impact on the 2016 election.

All the rest is a classic CIA disinformation campaign aimed at drumming up anti-Russian hysteria and delegitimizing anyone who fails to go along. And now Bernie Sanders is trying to cover his derrière by hopping on board.

It won't work. Sanders will find himself having to take one loyalty oath after another as the anti-Russia campaign flares anew. But it will never be enough, and he'll only wind up looking tired and weak. Voters will opt for the supposedly more formidable Biden, who will end up as a bug splat on the windshield of Donald Trump's speeding election campaign. With impeachment no longer an issue, he'll be free to behave as dictatorially as he wishes as he settles into his second term.

After inveighing against billionaire's wars, he'll find himself ensnared by the same billionaire war machine. The trouble with Sanders is that he thinks he can win by playing by the rules. But he can't because the rules are stacked against him. He'd know that if his outlook was more radical. His problem is not that he's too much of a socialist. Rather, it's that he's not enough.

[Jan 20, 2020] Documentary Released Monday Sheds New Light on Ukrainegate

Notable quotes:
"... I appears to me that Biden stepped into something and it's stuck to his foot. IMPOTUS never seeming to have the ability grasp victory from the jaws of defeat failed, again and stepped into the same mess. ..."
"... Viktor Shokin said under oath in a case in Austria that he was investigating Burisma and that's why Biden had him fired ..."
"... We now know that whenever Biden virtue signals, the exact opposite applies. When he talks about how democratic we are, or about transparency and what not, it's because we are not. Snake Oil salesman. ..."
"... So basically Joe Biden did everything that the Democrats accuse Trump of doing. And Biden is so brazen about the whole thing, he brags on tape at the Council of Foreign Relations and admits to his crime. And Biden is running for president? Image if people like Rachel Maddow did this kind of reporting and truly informed the citizens about the abuses in our own gov't instead of the establishment bullshit she has been spewing for years. We are a banana republic. ..."
"... Biden is the poster boy for nepotism and corruption. ..."
"... This report provides overwhelming evidence that Joe Biden intervened directly to coerce the president of Ukraine to fire an honest and competent prosecutor general, and to put in place a corrupt one. ..."
Jan 15, 2020 | consortiumnews.com

A new documentary by Olivier Berruyer, editor of the website les-crises.fr , released in conjunction with Consortium News on Monday, sorts out the complicated scandal and the role Joe Biden played in it.

UkraineGate – Inconvenient Facts

Part One: "A Not So 'Solid' Prosecutor"

https://videos.les-crises.fr/embed/player.php?video=ukgate_long_s1e1_en_jovv1vhy4zcnqlvof

Tags: Hunter Biden Joe Biden Petro Poroshenko Viktor Shokin


Skip Intro , January 15, 2020 at 22:34

Great video, thanks. I fear you may have misinterpreted the word "solid" in Biden's statement. I believe he meant something more like "reliable", in the sense of being compliant with US wishes. The opposite of 'not corrupt' really. Look at the body language, and it's the CFR, ffs.

robert e williamson jr , January 15, 2020 at 21:06

Right on Joe Lauria !

I have watched this video three times. A long cast of characters with similar, unfamiliar names here, some making multiple appearances.

I appears to me that Biden stepped into something and it's stuck to his foot. IMPOTUS never seeming to have the ability grasp victory from the jaws of defeat failed, again and stepped into the same mess.

A case exists to fry both Biden and the IMPOTUS over the same fire in their own fat, greedy little piggy's. Great stuff for non-partisans.

Now this video needs to go viral. like ASAP!

Three Cheers for" Inspector Clouseau", great job.

Nicolas , January 17, 2020 at 14:06

Merci beaucoup Robert! What a great compliment!

I absolutely agree with you, and we (a very small French team, I mostly researched material in Russian and Ukrainian) didn't do this documentary to help your president, and I don't think it will. It could be the opposite, depending on what happens with the primaries.

We're French (not Russian hackers, LOL!), what matters is that there are wrongdoings that had not been investigated properly until us, and therefore we had a great opportunity to do something serious to let the public know the truth, and make a name for ourselves in the process. If this series does go viral (and I have hopes it will :) ), then, well, it could generate enough donations for us to continue investigating, on other subjects. That would be really cool.

Stay tuned on ukrainegate.info for the next episodes :)

A one minute teaser you can share is available on twitter.com/Ukraine_Gate/

Again, thank you for the compliment, you made me smile.

Eugenie Basile , January 15, 2020 at 02:01

I guess this makes Biden the most solid candidate MSM and DNC can deliver.

DW Bartoo , January 16, 2020 at 15:07

Much appreciation to Olivier Berruyer, les-crises.fr, and CN.

Genuine investigative journalism of the highest order.

(The truth is a powerful gift and critically necessary to empowering understanding, which might even allow the many to find both the courage and imagination to bring about needful change and even permit humanity to have a future, that is not corrupted by crony finance capitalism, endless war, and a global political class intent on extraction on all levels, but rather is premised upon humane and sustainable behaviors and fundamental moral principles that value life above brute domination and cooperation above violent tyrannical oppression.)

Putting U$ MSM, for which only money and sycophantic propaganda pandering is all that matters, to well-deserved shame.

Jonathan Marshall , January 14, 2020 at 19:39

Here's another take from Daria Kaleniuk, executive director of Ukraine's Anti-Corruption Action Center, who is quoted in this video:

"Lutsenko and prosecutor Konstantin Kulik have been giving Giuliani information on this case purely with an agenda to save their careers, inventing the story about the Biden investigation."

In 2016, Vice President Biden demanded that Ukraine fire Prosecutor General Victor Shokin, who Trump might have called a "very good prosecutor," but he was seen by reformers in Kyiv as a disaster. A year earlier, Kalemniuk's watchdog organization had pushed to dismiss Shokin for neglecting multiple corruption cases.

"Here is why I do not say anything about Hunter Biden," Kaleniuk explained. "Vice President Biden called for Ukraine to fire Shokin not because of the Burisma investigation, absolutely not, but because Ukraine's prosecutor general did not investigate Burisma. U.S. Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt insisted [in early 2016] that Shokin should be investigating Burisma.

The U.S. government had a clear position: The Burisma probe was killed by Shokin."

www (dot)thedailybeast(dot)com/trump-zelensky-phone-call-shocks-daria-kaleniuk-one-of-ukraines-top-independent-corruption-fighters

Joe Lauria , January 15, 2020 at 02:09

Viktor Shokin said under oath in a case in Austria that he was investigating Burisma and that's why Biden had him fired. Are we supposed to believe the Daily Beast over sworn testimony? The idea that Biden got ride of Shokin because he wouldn't investigate his son's company is way too fantastic to believe.

Jason M Homer , January 15, 2020 at 13:00

Interesting until realizing your sourcing your information from the Daily Beast. Please find new sources of information. The Daily Beast has been repeatedly proven to be pure propaganda.

Clark M Shanahan , January 15, 2020 at 21:49

BTW: Chelsea Clinton is on the Daily Beast's board of directors.

Debra L. Carr de Legorreta , January 14, 2020 at 17:22

We now know that whenever Biden virtue signals, the exact opposite applies. When he talks about how democratic we are, or about transparency and what not, it's because we are not. Snake Oil salesman.

Erin , January 14, 2020 at 16:59

I can't wait to see part 2. When is that coming out? This is an incredible deep dive into the whole stinking Urkrainegate/Biden issue. I paused the film several times because there is so much information provided.

So basically Joe Biden did everything that the Democrats accuse Trump of doing. And Biden is so brazen about the whole thing, he brags on tape at the Council of Foreign Relations and admits to his crime. And Biden is running for president? Image if people like Rachel Maddow did this kind of reporting and truly informed the citizens about the abuses in our own gov't instead of the establishment bullshit she has been spewing for years. We are a banana republic.

Blessthebeasts , January 15, 2020 at 13:15

I almost think the Democrats are deliberately sandbagging Biden with the impeachment farce. They know he would likely lose as Hillary did, but he feels "entitled" like she did, so they think this will finish him once and for all.

Our government is useless.

VallejoD , January 15, 2020 at 13:42

Agreed. Biden is the poster boy for nepotism and corruption.

DC_rez , January 16, 2020 at 16:08

Are you insinuating Rachel Maddow is a journalist?

Nicolas , January 17, 2020 at 14:13

Thank you very much for the compliment!
Part 2 is ready (and it's fun!), if everything is OK you'll see it next week, if you stay tuned to ukrainegate.info and/or twitter.com/Ukraine_Gate
Don't hesitate to share and help us go viral :)

Brewer , January 14, 2020 at 16:13

Spent this morning promoting this documentary on my regular alt-media haunts and sent it to journos and politicians I know. Strongly urge others to do likewise. MSM already blocking it so it is important to get it out there.
Many thanks to Consortium News. A real scoop.

Debra L. Carr de Legorreta , January 14, 2020 at 16:07

It's not surprising that the the CEO of Burisma, Mykola Zlockevsky looks like a mobster. What kind of a person heads a fossil fuel company, an enterprise hell bent on increasing CO2 emissions? not someone you'd like to bump into in a dark alley.

Ruth Harris , January 14, 2020 at 14:48

Some points to ponder:
1. Biden was sent to Ukraine with the backing of both parties in congress and the IMF to remove Shokin in exchange for $5 Bn in aid to the Ukrainian gas industry.
Question: Was any of that money intended for or received by Burisma?
2. Hunter Biden's position at Burisma facilitated connections with a NATO think tank, the Atlantic Council, which was the recipient of million$ from Burisma.
Question: Did any of that money originate from the aid money?
3. The Atlantic Council, an anti Russian organization, sits amid a web of US defense contractors, Raytheon and Lockheed, producers of the Javelin missiles, being two of them. Some of the $300 + million Trump withheld, was to purchase those weapons.
Question: What part did the Atlantic Council and those defense contractors play in the whistle blowing incident that revealed Trump's quid pro quo?
consortiumnews(dot)com/2019/10/14/dcs-atlantic-council-raked-in-funding-from-hunter-bidens-corruption-stained-ukrainian-employer-while-courting-his-vp-father/

Desmond , January 14, 2020 at 18:29

Excellent questions. Thank you.

Dianne Foster , January 15, 2020 at 04:07

Interesting. So far, I only knew that Biden and McCain enabled Nuland to replace Yanukovich with a neo-Nazi-filled government in 2014. Thus to re-start the Cold War with Russia .0

Fred Grosso , January 14, 2020 at 14:05

Thank you for this information. I don't think this vindicates Trump. It shows how he fits so nicely into our corrupt politics. He is of value because he commits immoral acts that he believes others have committed, but he doubles down and he is ruthlessly transparent. Biden is what he is and not as he is presented to us by the media and his gang. How we get the fanatical supporters of these corrupt demons to stop empowering them is a puzzling dilemma.

Louis Robert , January 14, 2020 at 18:02

Gramsci:

" The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters."

rosemerry , January 14, 2020 at 14:01

I would be delighted to see Facebook allowing "The Magnitsky Act-Behind the Scenes", as NOBODY else online is allowed to or brave enough to let the truth be told about that Browder action.

Frank Munley , January 14, 2020 at 12:07

I do not use FB for sending links. I hardly use my FB account at all. But I did access ukrainegate.info through my Safari browser. I noticed immediately that there is an 8:50 short summary of the video posted by CN. I hope there is a transcript of the longer version, because like some others, I don't like to watch videos.

Tim Slater , January 14, 2020 at 11:39

This is what investigative journalism should be!

Nicolas , January 17, 2020 at 14:18

Thank you very much for the compliment!
For the next episodes, see ukrainegate.info
There's also a one-minute teaser on twitter.com/Ukraine_Gate that you can share to help us go viral.

Linda C , January 14, 2020 at 11:06

Corruption has tarnished Joe Biden. He is no longer a viable Democratic candidate in the U.S. This is what Trump was after, even if it was for his own political gain. Impeaching one president and preparing to elect another crooked one is what American politics looks like these days. Ukraine doesn't have a corner on the market of corruption.

Mike from Jersey , January 14, 2020 at 17:49

Linda,

Biden is unfit for office.

The problem is that the Corporate Media will suppress info like this.

That is why sites like this one are important.

The more people get the word out the better.

Adele A Roof , January 14, 2020 at 11:05

I very much appreciated this video, that clearly confirms how corrupt Biden would be were he elected president.

I tried to send a donation to the French company that investigated and produced this and have not yet figured out a way to do that.

Please suggest an alternative link.

Iovleff , January 15, 2020 at 10:48

The page is in french but after filling the form (first name, second name, . In fact you can put what you want, there is no check)
and clicking on the button "Faire un don avec Paypal", you will be able to donate

https://www.les-crises.fr/faire-un-don-a-diacrisis/

Antiwar7 , January 15, 2020 at 13:31

An English-language support page for that site is at:
https(colon)//www(dot)les-crises(dot)fr/support/

Nicolas , January 17, 2020 at 14:28

Thank you very much for your compliment (I'm one of the few members of the investigative team), Adele, and thank you very much to Antiwar for providing the link. I hope it's OK to repeat this link in clear www(dot)les-crises (dot)fr/support/

OK, I think this is the 4th thank you message I write, and I should stop here before CN bans me for flooding the comment section, but I'm really extremely moved by all the compliments on this page.
See you soon for the next videos :)

AnneR , January 14, 2020 at 10:41

Additional and hardly coincidental that NPR should use Area 1 Security as a "source" for "insightful," "reliable and true" information (ho ho) Wikipedia (not itself a reliable, unaffiliated source, but likely so in this case, informs that the Oren Falkowitz and his two co-founders of this (supposed independent) cybersecurity firm, prior to their establishing this "cybersecurity" company they (all three) worked for – guess who? – the US National Security Agency (NSA). You know, that abominable snooping, spy cyber-agency that hacked into everyone's cell/smartphone around the world, including Frau Merkel's.

You have to admire the hubris and arrogance of these men; and the reliance of the NPR on their loyal audience members either fully accepting what any *American* cyber *security* company says about the Reds, the black hats or should they bother to check out the Wiki that audience trusting utterly anything and everything such men and their company say (and do). Mind-boggling.

Charles K. Hof , January 14, 2020 at 10:34

And Joe Biden wants to be the US president. I also note Obama willing to go along with this "change", and use funds for leverage. Unfortunately it seems this is how not only the US but other countries work.
Trump is corrupt, and we may not like what he does, and yes he got caught. The fact that the Republicans do not reign him in is equally as bad.
Enough of the "Old Gard and their version of Ethics/Morality"

AnneR , January 14, 2020 at 10:29

I'd much rather read than watch (bad for my eyes) or listen, so have missed out on this revealing item. However, it is excellent that CN has posted the access to this video for those more than willing to view (I'd love to read a transcript, mind) it.

Makes me wonder if the existence of this evidence has *anything* to do with NPR's Morning Edition today and the new (?) "Russia (GRU) did it" story they are happily broadcasting about the (purported) hacking of Burisma's email accounts. Their source of info? Some CA based "cybersecurity" company called Area 1 Security. Yep, those scary, dastardly Russians (the *only* country with hackers, let alone government funded hackers) have been at it again – and, of course, they have had ill intent, just as they did vis a vis Killary's election campaign

This is from NPR's website, what was said by the Security firm's co-founder: " "What we've uncovered is that the same Russian cyber actors who targeted the DNC in 2016 have been actively launching a phishing campaign against employees of Burisma Holdings and its subsidiaries, to try to steal their email usernames and passwords," Area 1 co-founder Oren Falkowitz tells NPR's Noel King."

Well, of course.

Just in case anyone in the US population begins to raise their head above the Huxleyan-Orwellian propaganda and gets other ideas about what reality really looks like And perhaps in preparation for an impeachment trial taking place in the Senate and the Biden gangsters being subpoenaed .Gotta keep the lid on it.

DH Fabian , January 15, 2020 at 00:28

In fairness, Russia-gate is all that the Democrats have left to sell. They sold out their values, and a good portion of their voters, years ago.

Blessthebeasts , January 15, 2020 at 13:28

I don't usually watch longer videos but I watched this while working in the kitchen and it was easy to follow and clearly laid out. I recommend it; you will gain even more insight into the corruption of these evil people.

ML , January 14, 2020 at 09:12

Remember the older gentleman Merle Gorman, who Joe Biden savaged at an Iowa town hall meeting a few weeks ago? The story ran on CBS nightly news one night. All the retired farmer asked Joe was two questions: 1. That he himself at 83, knew he was too old to have the job of president of the U.S. and how did Biden feel about his own age and job aspirations? 2. What was the deal about Ukraine's Burisma hiring Hunter to their board when Hunter had no experience in oil and gas? And Biden called him a "damned liar" and "fat," challenged him to a physical competition and attacked Mr. Gorman terribly. It was a disgusting display by Biden. Well, I looked up Merle in Hampton, Iowa and wrote him a letter, telling him he was a hero for bringing these issues up so bravely in front of a big crowd. A couple weeks later, I received a two page, hand-written letter from Mr. Gorman himself. Many Americans had written or called him to offer their support. It was delightful to be able to converse with a fellow American on this issue, a complete stranger who had the temerity to confront Biden directly on his corruption. Mr. Gorman, I told you about Consortium News in my letter to you. So if you are reading this, once again, BRAVO! Great video here that proves the point he so courageously made at that Iowa town hall. And Joe is tanking. I hope he continues to tank.

Helga I. Fellay , January 14, 2020 at 21:27

ML – I believe you are correct, that Biden is tanking, as he should be. However, the democrats and their supine MSM are still holding him up as if he were a shoo-in to win the nomination. CBS evening news tonight declared him way out in front, although other polls put Sanders first and Biden way behind. There is only one reason the Dems and the media insist that he is the front runner: because without that pretext, their entire impeachment hoax would collapse. The President has every right to ask that an obviously corrupt senator meddling in foreign affairs be investigated. It's only "illegal" IF that senator is his political rival. But as long as Biden can't win the primary, that would pull the rug out from under the entire impeachment hoax. So between now and the primary, we will hear and read again and again that Biden is the front runner, the truth be damned.

VallejoD , January 15, 2020 at 13:50

Good for you! I was absolutely disgusted with Biden. The man is an ethical sinkhole and then attacks an elder American citizen in the vilest way.

I would not vote for Biden to collect my trash.

James Whitney , January 14, 2020 at 08:18

Les Crises is the most important economic blog in France during the last several years. It welcomed the well-known economist Jacques Sapir who had been kicked out of his previous blog position for criticizing president Macron. One of the best features of Les Crises is the people who leave excellent comments on the many articles published. I am one of these commentators, although I comment a lot less often than some of the best (my comments generally well received all the same).

Robyn , January 14, 2020 at 07:46

I agree with Dingleberry's rhetorical question about why people continue using FB etc. So many people object to being spied on and lament social media's increasing censorship, yet they keep on using them – just as they keep going to MSM sites. I'd like to see a huge boycott of them all, even for just 24 hours.

People – take back the power.

Fran Macadam , January 14, 2020 at 07:28

You've been zucked.

countykerry , January 14, 2020 at 06:10

Joe, Joe say it ain't so !

Thank you for sharing this documentary with us, another example of the corrupt behavior of Joe Biden.

And brought to us not by our own MSM but from France.

Michael Meo , January 14, 2020 at 02:02

This report provides overwhelming evidence that Joe Biden intervened directly to coerce the president of Ukraine to fire an honest and competent prosecutor general, and to put in place a corrupt one.

I am interested to see how the honest prosecutor was presented in European and American mass media as corrupt. I donated 50 dollars, and hope to see the explanation in the second installment.

mbob , January 13, 2020 at 23:14

This video is astonishing! I couldn't stop watching. I normally don't bother with videos, since it's much faster to read than to watch and listen. And this video is very lengthy -- over 50 minutes.

But it's one of the most amazing and compelling things I've ever viewed.

I'll admit: I believe everything that Berruyer says and shows here. The video should completely demolish Biden's candidacy. Although not very explicit about him, it sheds enormous shade on Obama and on the impeachment hearing. It comes near to completely vindicating Trump on the UkraineGate charge, while essentially convicting Biden of what Trump was accused of.

I'll try to learn more about Berruyer to see if he is as objective as this video appears to make him out to be.

And if he is . wow!

Thanks ConsortiumNews for finding and showing this. As I said, I've seen nothing like it. And I'll make a contribution shortly.

If, as Ville from Finland write, the video violates Facebook's norms, then that opens up very troubling issues in itself.

Keep up the good work!

Olivier Berruyer , January 14, 2020 at 08:31

Thanks a lot ! You know, we are french, not americans. We are not politically motivated : we are not pro-democrats, or pro-republicans. We just try to be each day pro-journalism.

As Robert Parry told it : https://consortiumnews.com/2019/12/29/an-apology-and-explanation-two-years-on/

ElderD , January 14, 2020 at 09:08

>>> " It comes near to completely vindicating Trump on the UkraineGate charge . . ."

I don't think that's true. Trump clearly used the leverage of withholding aid authorized by Congress, in order to coerce Ukraine into taking action that would help his reelection campaign. That's seriously bad stuff, regardless of the actions of the Biden family.

>>>". . . while essentially convicting Biden of what Trump was accused of."

Yes. It definitely does that.

John Wright , January 13, 2020 at 22:00

Excellent and important documentary that everyone should watch if they want to understand the roots of UkraineGate.

Thanks for posting this CN !

michael , January 13, 2020 at 17:26

Excellent video! Ukraine is laughably corrupt. American politicians must feel they have died and gone to Paradise!

Piotr Berman , January 14, 2020 at 11:56

Funny countries are laughably corrupt. USA is a serious country. American corruption is .. [exercise for high school kids]

Paul , January 13, 2020 at 18:22

This was remarkable and important. Well done.

Eugenie Basile , January 14, 2020 at 08:30

I wonder if this falls under meddling with U.S. elections by a foreign agent providing kompromat on a U.S. political frontrunner. Mr. Berruyer you are a very courageous man.

[Jan 19, 2020] Ukrainian Boeing takedown might well be a false flag attack by the US or its allies intended to frame Iran

Jan 19, 2020 | www.moonofalabama.org

Mike Javaras , Jan 19 2020 5:13 utc | 82

Best explanation I've seen yet of the 752 jet takedown. It was a false flag attack by the US or its allies intended to frame Iran. The Iranian missile hit second after the plane had already been hit by the Stinger and was several seconds from crashing anyway. The rich kids of Tehran were in the housing complex at 6 AM to film the Stinger shootdown by their terrorist buddies. They have properly been arrested. There have been other arrests too. I wonder what they will come up with.

This makes more sense than any other theory I have seen.

https://beyondhighbrow.com/2020/01/18/false-flag-flight-752-in-iran-was-shot-down-by-us-allies-with-a-stinger-missile-not-by-an-iranian-missile/


Jackrabbit , Jan 19 2020 6:00 utc | 86

Mike Javaras @82: The Iranian missile hit second after the plane had already been hit by the Stinger ...

MANPADs like Stingers are heat-seeking. They go after ENGINES. On a big plane like PS732, a MANPADs is unlikely to have stopped the transponder and communications.

Philip Giraldi points a finger at US/Israeli Electronic Warfare:

Who Targeted Ukraine Airlines Flight 752?
Iran Shot It Down But There May Be More to the Story

Giraldi thinks the transponder was hacked. But the article he cites also talks about a device on board that would've allowed for EW. And he notes that Israel probably ALSO has the capability to have been responsible for the EW and/or device on board.

!!

V , Jan 19 2020 6:21 utc | 89
MOSCOW – Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov stated there is unverified information that at least six American F-35 jets were in the Iranian border area at the time when Tehran accidentally downed Ukraine International Airlines flight PS752 last week.

www.fortruss.com

[Jan 19, 2020] False Flag Fmr CIA Officer Suggests US Hacked Ukrainian Plane Transponder To Provoke Iran Shootdown

Jan 18, 2020 | www.zerohedge.com

Philip Giraldi, a former counter-terrorism specialist and military intelligence officer of the CIA, penned a piece in the American Herald Tribune speculating that the U.S. launched several cyber-attacks, one on an Iranian missile defense system, and another on the transponder of the doomed Ukrainian plane.

Giraldi explains the Iranian missile operator experienced extreme "jamming" and Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752's transponder was switched off several minutes before the two Russian made Tor missiles were launched.

"The shutdown of the transponder, which would have automatically signaled to the operator and Tor electronics that the plane was civilian, instead automatically indicated that it was hostile. The operator, having been particularly briefed on the possibility of incoming American cruise missiles, then fired," he said.

Giraldi said the Tor missile system used by Iran is vulnerable to being hacked or "spoofed," and at the same moment, Flight 752's transponder was taken offline "to create an aviation accident that would be attributed to the Iranian government."

The Pentagon has reportedly developed technologies that can trick enemy radars with false and deceptively moving targets, he said.

"The same technology can, of course, be used to alter or even mask the transponder on a civilian airliner in such a fashion as to send false information about identity and location. The United States has the cyber and electronic warfare capability to both jam and alter signals relating to both airliner transponders and to the Iranian air defenses. Israel presumably has the same ability," Giraldi said.

Iran made the claim Wednesday that "enemy sabotage" cannot be ruled out in the downing of the plane.

Iranian Brigadier General Ali Abdollahi suggested the U.S. hacked missile defense systems to make it appear Flight 752 was an incoming missile.

Iranian President Hassan Rouhani also accused the U.S. of being responsible for the downing of the plane, saying that:

"The root of all sorrows goes back to America... this cannot be a reason for us not to look into all the root causes."

He added that:

"One cannot believe that a passenger plane is struck near an international airport while flying in a [commercial] flight channel," after previously saying that IRGC commanders were not the only ones involved in the plane downing, noting that "There were others, too."

The Iranian parliament also stated that "we are in powerful confrontation with the criminal U.S. and do not allow a mistake to pave the ground for misusing the issue by the enemies."

Giraldi concludes by saying electronic warfare by the U.S. to bring down a civilian jet and blame it on Iran "suggests a premeditated and carefully planned event" to create a false flag for the next world war.


Pernicious Gold Phallusy , 2 minutes ago link

I would think armed forces near an international airport would be extra careful before flipping some switches.

Dachaguy , 8 minutes ago link

Of course, Iran and the pilot of the plane had nothing to gain and everything to lose by turning off the transponders, which makes it more than likely a third party was involved in the downing of the plane. You don't need to be a genius to figure out who stood to gain by killing all those civilians. Giving the black box to Ukraine, America's puppet state, was probably a mistake.

Minamoto , 13 minutes ago link

Golf of Tonkin incident...

Operation Gladio...

WMD in Iraq...

7 World Trade...

The Pentagon and CIA involvements in the funding, training and arming of Sunni groups in Syria was documented in congressional committees...

The list of false flag operations perpetrated by the US is a long one... and in the past decades Mossad is also involved.

Schacht Mat , 21 minutes ago link

Interesting - I have harbored the same opinion after seeing the nationalities of the passengers and reviewing the 2 missile video. In fact, I believe that the plane was rigged with a unit to turn off both the transponder and the communication system, and then to trigger an explosive in the wing tank after missile launch (triggering mechanisms likely externally enabled). Let's look at this:

1. Nationalities - could not find references to too many American citizens, but lot's of Canadians; ie: no real exposure at home and this gives Trudeau (Trudope..) a headache to deal with that brings him closer to the Neocon camp - a little payback for the hot mike moment at the G7.

2. Iranians may be poorly trained and, at that moment, itchy fingered, but planes were coming and going from that airport all day. What made this one special - no transponder signal. Jamming is too easy to spot; it is much easier to install a remote kill switch on the plane in Ukraine (you know, where the US has lot's of ground assets with access to sensitive facilities like airports) and then turn off the transponder after leaving the Tehran airport.

3. Black box shows that there were no communications from the plane to the airport controllers or anyone else; yet, the crew was over staffed with competent flight crew. Note the time between when the first missile detonates and when the fire is seen on the wing of the plane; there is plenty of time for a competent aircrew to call off the attack, yet there was only radio silence. Somebody also killed the radios, which means this was planned.

3. The Tor system is not that great. Note that they fired one missile, it detonated, and there was no obvious visible effect on the plane. It was at that point that a second missile was fired; again it detonated and again there was no obvious visible effect on the plane. From the video, it appears that while the missiles may have caused damage, they do not appear to have been catastrophic.

4. Because of point 3 above, it appears that the planners had a fail safe; that being an explosive in the right wing (likely in the fuel tank as that is reasonably easy to insert), and that was detonated several seconds after the second missile did not drop the plane, and there was no third missile being launched at the airplane (perhaps the missile ground crew figured out something was wrong because the target was not going evasive, or maybe they had nothing else launch ready - unknown at this time). This would have had to have been detonated remotely (any stealthy drones hiding in that night sky??).

5. Wing burn - This sequence of events would explain the videos of the attack; I have not seen any other explanation for why the wing waited so long to suddenly erupt in flames (the plane just took off - lots of fuel, yet the flight was not that long, so there were plenty of fumes as well for hot shrapnel to ignite) after the second missile detonation. This just does not make sense on a paper thin civilian target. Also, it does not appear (from the flame morphology) that hot jet exhaust subsequently ignited leaking fuel (which could possibly explain the delay between the second missile detonation and the appearance of the fireball).

Finally, why did they do this? I doubt that it was to provoke war; likely it was to keep the Iranians from hitting any further US targets by embarrassing the them internationally, and at the same time setting Ukraine, their regional (and after the last election less than completely compliant) client state against Iran while at the same time getting Canada in line with US policy and giving its "true bearded dope" of a Prime Minister a black eye.

Another interesting note; the US has in depth penetration of both Canadian and Ukrainian institutions, which is important as these two countries have the greatest claim to being an integral part of the investigation, which means that by proxy the US has a ringside seat to manage the obscuring of any unhelpful facts that may be uncovered. This is the mistake they made with MH17, in that many of the passengers were Dutch, and thus the Dutch took the investigative lead. Getting that report properly obscured cost them a lot of gold, and they were not going to make the same mistake twice.

Any of these issues, taken individually, can be dismissed; however, taken together, the package is just too sweet - that many things coming together "coincidentally" is beyond any laws of probability that I have come across.

Pernicious Gold Phallusy , 43 seconds ago link

I suspect every member of the armed forces in Iran has been drilled with the knowledge the USS Vincennes shot down an Iranian passenger jet that supposedly had its transponder turned off.

madashellron , 41 minutes ago link

From MOA.

"It is sad that this incident happened and that 176 lost their life. But if one wants to find a person guilty for it one must look for the person who caused the whole situation. That person is not the lowly sergeant who pressed the button. That person is U.S. President Donald Trump."

Max Hunter , 39 minutes ago link

They admitted to shooting it down, the reasons are still unclear and the fact that this plane was shot down while the country itself was expecting an attack from the US or Israel only lends to speculation that there was more involved with this accident. Of course, your mind is made up that the evil Iranians killed a bunch of people because they are moral degenerates as the US and Israhell are forever seated on moral high ground.

MadelynMarie , 52 minutes ago link

https://www.sott.net/article/427443-Iran-Jet-Disaster-Setup-Was-Electronic-Warfare-in-Play

https://www.sott.net/article/427303-Was-Iranian-Missile-Operator-Tricked-Into-Shooting-Down-The-Ukrainian-Airlines-Plane-Over-Tehran

[Jan 19, 2020] Unexplained flight discrepancies by Joseph Nathan

Notable quotes:
"... When framed across the other unknown technologies that are powering the complex avionics on the Boeing 737-800, the US-China trade war and why so many economies are investing big monies in building their own GNSS, there is just a remote possibility that something sinister may be at play. ..."
"... When we examine the final seconds of the Ukrainian PS752 based on known data at this stage of the investigation, it resembles the final seconds of MH370, just before it disappeared from the radar and remains unaccounted for to this day. Could it be just another aviation coincidence? ..."
Jan 19, 2020 | www.asiatimes.com

Originally from: Asia Times Has US overplayed its tech advantage

... ... ...

As more data are being released, there are already some glaring discrepancies that baffle even aviation experts. When the doomed Ukrainian airliner, Flight PS752, switched from Tehran Iman Khomeini International Airport to Mehrabad air traffic control at 2,400 meters, at a position about 20 kilometers from the airport, it lost contact, just minutes before it was shot down. Flight-path records show that the aircraft was making a turn back in the direction of the airport.

Concurrently as this was taking place, the Iranians were firing missiles at Iraqi bases that house US forces in retaliation for the killing of their general.

If the US has the intelligence to pinpoint with such accuracy what was happening to PS752 while its troops were being fired upon, it raises the question as to whether the US has managed to circumvent the Iranians' GPS used for the rocket attacks on their troops and inadvertently set the missiles on a wrong course.

While the Iranians may have the capability to jam or spoof territorial intrusions like in 2011, when they managed to override an American RQ-170 stealth drone and landed it on their territory, it does not have the capability to shield its GPS fully from the US.

Even the Israelis, known for their military strength, do not have the capability to shield their GPS fully from foreign interference. Last June, the Israel Defense Forces suffered such a disruption. They attributed it to the Russians using a combination of jamming and spoofing signal. Known as "smart jamming," this is used to deter drones and incursion risks over very specific airspace. This disruption was detected by the GRID (GNSS Radio Frequency Interference Detection) receiver on the International Space Station owned by the Naval Research Lab, Cornell University, the University of Texas and Aerospace Corp.

Such jamming and spoofing can create hazards for civilian and commercial navigation. It can also block military-grade equipment, as shown by the Russians in 2018 when they disrupted US drones operating in Syria to gather intelligence.

Should the Iranians' GPS be compromised by the US, all its rocket launches will be misguided by false data. Whether the US could deploy such a ruthless tactic against the Iranians begs greater scrutiny by the international community, as this unfortunate incident has just too many coincidences.

When framed across the other unknown technologies that are powering the complex avionics on the Boeing 737-800, the US-China trade war and why so many economies are investing big monies in building their own GNSS, there is just a remote possibility that something sinister may be at play.

When we examine the final seconds of the Ukrainian PS752 based on known data at this stage of the investigation, it resembles the final seconds of MH370, just before it disappeared from the radar and remains unaccounted for to this day. Could it be just another aviation coincidence?

... ... ...

Joseph Nathan has been the principal consultant with several consultancy agencies for 28 years in Singapore. For Malaysia and Indonesia, he undertakes projects via JN Advisory (M) Sdn Bhd, covering real estate and infrastructure, aviation, project and debt financing, and general business review (non-manufacturing). He holds an MBA from Macquarie Graduate School of Management, Australia.

[Jan 18, 2020] Eastern Ukrainians, who were the biggest losers in the post-Soviet deindustrilization, have harmed you by existing and dying of diseases of poverty and despair.

Jan 18, 2020 | www.unz.com

AP says: January 15, 2020 at 9:59 pm GMT 100 Words @Thulean Friend

That too. Ukraine is a split country on pro/anti-Russian attitudes

Rather strong and somewhat anachronistic statement. Ukraine was split prior to 2014.

There are still pro-Russian areas but being free of Crimea and Donbas means Ukraine can no longer be characterized as "split." Probably 1/4 of the population can be considered to be politically friendly to Russia. Given, say, Latvia's ethnic Russian population, that country is nowadays probably more "split" than Ukraine.

JPM , says: January 15, 2020 at 10:59 pm GMT

@AP d in a frozen conflict zone. After they were fucked by industrial collapse and job loss. Before that they were fucked by wars, famines and the Bolsheviks. They really can't seem to catch a break.

Europeans seem to be on the precipice of disaster everywhere. It would be nice to band together, rather than die while getting hung up on the narcissism of small differences. Probably just wishful thinking on my part though. I guess Americans can't understand how important it is for Ukrainians on one side of the Dniepr to show how different they are from Ukrainians on the other or how different they are from Russians for that matter.

[Jan 18, 2020] Who Targeted Ukraine Airlines Flight 752 Iran Shot It Down But There May Be More to the Story by Philip Giraldi

Jan 18, 2020 | www.unz.com

What seems to have been a case of bad judgments and human error does, however, include some elements that have yet to be explained. The Iranian missile operator reportedly experienced considerable "jamming" and the planes transponder switched off and stopped transmitting several minutes before the missiles were launched . There were also problems with the communication network of the air defense command, which may have been related.

The electronic jamming coming from an unknown source meant that the air defense system was placed on manual operation, relying on human intervention to launch. The human role meant that an operator had to make a quick judgment in a pressure situation in which he had only moments to react. The shutdown of the transponder, which would have automatically signaled to the operator and Tor electronics that the plane was civilian, instead automatically indicated that it was hostile. The operator, having been particularly briefed on the possibility of incoming American cruise missiles, then fired.

The two missiles that brought the plane down came from a Russian-made system designated SA-15 by NATO and called Tor by the Russians. Its eight missiles are normally mounted on a tracked vehicle. The system includes both radar to detect and track targets as well as an independent launch system, which includes an Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) system functionality capable of reading call signs and transponder signals to prevent accidents. Given what happened on that morning in Tehran, it is plausible to assume that something or someone deliberately interfered with both the Iranian air defenses and with the transponder on the airplane, possibly as part of an attempt to create an aviation accident that would be attributed to the Iranian government.

The SA-15 Tor defense system used by Iran has one major vulnerability. It can be hacked or "spoofed," permitting an intruder to impersonate a legitimate user and take control. The United States Navy and Air Force reportedly have developed technologies "that can fool enemy radar systems with false and deceptively moving targets." Fooling the system also means fooling the operator. The Guardian has also reported independently how the United States military has long been developing systems that can from a distance alter the electronics and targeting of Iran's available missiles.

The same technology can, of course, be used to alter or even mask the transponder on a civilian airliner in such a fashion as to send false information about identity and location. The United States has the cyber and electronic warfare capability to both jam and alter signals relating to both airliner transponders and to the Iranian air defenses. Israel presumably has the same ability. Joe Quinn at Sott.net also notes an interested back story to those photos and video footage that have appeared in the New York Times and elsewhere showing the Iranian missile launch, the impact with the plane and the remains after the crash, to include the missile remains. They appeared on January 9 th , in an Instagram account called ' Rich Kids of Tehran '. Quinn asks how the Rich Kids happened to be in "a low-income housing estate on the city's outskirts [near the airport] at 6 a.m. on the morning of January 8 th with cameras pointed at the right part of the sky in time to capture a missile hitting a Ukrainian passenger plane ?"

Put together the Rich Kids and the possibility of electronic warfare and it all suggests a premeditated and carefully planned event of which the Soleimani assassination was only a part. There have been riots in Iran subsequent to the shooting down of the plane, blaming the government for its ineptitude. Some of the people in the street are clearly calling for the goal long sought by the United States and Israel, i.e. "regime change." If nothing else, Iran, which was widely seen as the victim in the killing of Soleimani, is being depicted in much of the international media as little more than another unprincipled actor with blood on its hands. There is much still to explain about the downing of Ukrainian International Airlines Flight 752.

Philip M. Giraldi, Ph.D., is Executive Director of the Council for the National Interest, a 501(c)3 tax deductible educational foundation (Federal ID Number #52-1739023) that seeks a more interests-based U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East.


AnonStarter , says: Show Comment January 15, 2020 at 10:45 pm GMT

Given this news, any impartial observer would at least entertain the possibility of its truth, particularly given the lengthy track record of the United States/Israel in perpetrating such crimes.

It's a good litmus test for determining where one's sentiment lies. Even "alternative media" aren't likely to touch this story.

Bravo to Mr. Giraldi and Mr. Unz.

Sean , says: Show Comment January 15, 2020 at 11:10 pm GMT
The Iranian Ambassador to Britain, Hamid Baeidinejad said in an interview on the UK Channel 4 news hours ago that although Iran had needed time to determine what had happened, it had now accepted responsibility, would pay compensation, and the people who fired on the jet will be put on trial.

If nothing else, Iran, which was widely seen as the victim in the killing of Soleimani, is being depicted in much of the international media as little more than another unprincipled actor with blood on its hands.

Both Trump and the Iranian regime have good domestic disquiet reason to rethink the confrontational policy each are pursuing. Iran and the US could get closer over this. I think the predictable unpredictability of assassination and catastrophic loss of life events makes false flagging them of dubious value.

Why did I rob banks? Because I enjoyed it. I loved it. I was more alive when I was inside a bank, robbing it, than at any other time in my life. I enjoyed everything about it so much that one or two weeks later I'd be out looking for the next job. But to me the money was the chips, that's all.

(Sutton W, Linn E: Where the Money Was: The Memoirs of a Bank Robber. Viking Press (1976), p. 160)

I suppose it is possible there are people who get addicted to false flagging others' deaths. If half of what is said in this site is true, Mossad really needs to set up a 12 step program.

onebornfree , says: Website Show Comment January 15, 2020 at 11:49 pm GMT
" .the big question which many people on social media are asking is: why was this "videographer" standing in a derelict industrial area outside Tehran at around six o'clock in the morning with a mobile phone camera training on a fixed angle to the darkened sky? The airliner is barely visible, yet the sky-watching person has the camera pointed and ready to film a most dramatic event, seconds before it happened. That strongly suggests, foreknowledge."

"Iran Jet Disaster Setup – Who Is the Mysterious Videographer?:"
https://ahtribune.com/world/north-africa-south-west-asia/iran/3809-jet-disaster-setup.html

And I would add: how do we know the video[s] are even genuine? [Answer: we don't, it is only an unproven assumption at this time].

Regards, onebornfree

anonymous [150] Disclaimer , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 12:36 am GMT
Hmmm, cameras waiting beforehand, transponders not working. Sort of sounds like 9-11, doesn't it?
The Alarmist , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 3:01 am GMT

The Iranian missile operator reportedly experienced considerable "jamming" and the planes transponder switched off and stopped transmitting several minutes before the missiles were launched.

I vaguely recall reports of transponder issues arising during the shootdown of MH-17.

anonymous [405] Disclaimer , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 3:49 am GMT

Civilian passenger flights were still departing and arriving in Tehran, almost certainly an error in judgment on the part of the airport authorities. Inexplicably, civilian aircraft continued to take off and land even after Flight 752 was shot down.

The Iranian government is blameworthy for keeping planes in the air either because of diabolical reasons (delays a counter attack) or economic (nearly $1 billion a year in overflight fees).

However, the pilots of the airliners that took over during the morning between the first missile hitting Iraq and the downing of the Ukrainian airliner were dumb and irresponsible.

Anon [230] Disclaimer , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 4:10 am GMT

The system includes both radar to detect and track targets as well as an independent launch system, which includes an Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) system functionality capable of reading call signs and transponder signals to prevent accidents.

Clearly you have no clue how an IFF operates and that no commercial airliner even has an IFF on board. Every commercial aircraft looks like the enemy to this SAM operator.

Also, you need to explain how spoofing a RADAR which creates a false track would cause the shoot down. The missile would simply target the false track instead of the real aircraft.

You also need to explain how an old SAM missile site can be hacked or spoofed to shoot down a civilian airliner. Especially this old one which has no Mode-S or ADS-B capability and only radio communication capability.

As Mark Twain said, it's better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are an idiot rather than open it and remove all doubt.

Anon [200] Disclaimer , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 5:20 am GMT
Even if this was a clear mistake on Iran's part, the US and Israel still have blood on their hands for the downing of this plane. The missiles were launched in response to a targeted killing of an Iranian general. If that didn't happen, these missiles never would've been launched.

Trump-Pence-Pompeo-Kushner-Netanyahu are ultimately responsible for these 176 lives lost. I suspect MBS is also part of the scheme. It was his fake peace offering that lured Soleimani to Iraq in the first place. I'm with Trudeau on this.

Onlooker , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 5:22 am GMT
@Anon Before calling someone an idiot it is better to follow Mark Twain's advice yourself. A more careful reading reveals no claim that IFF was onstalled on the airliner. The commenter does speculate that possible spoofing involved a false attribution of a real airliner not the creation of a false airliner and radar track. Perhaps you are familiar with "old" electronic countermeasures and not with the "new", "top secret" and spiffy versions hinted at by the U.S. military?
AnonStarter , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 6:30 am GMT
@Quartermaster /An Airliner can not legally launch with deadlined transponder, so the claim that it quit transmitting "several" minutes earlier would have placed it on the ground when it quit./

From the SoTT link :

As it climbed and reached 4,600ft above ground level, the plane's transponder suddenly stopped working at about 6.14am, 2 minutes or so after take off . [emphasis added]

The plane was already airborne when the transponder stopped working.

AnonStarter , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 6:45 am GMT
@Onlooker Less than twenty replies into the thread and we've already got two individuals attempting to distort the facts. Here's the key link that readers should visit:

https://www.sott.net/article/427303-Was-Iranian-Missile-Operator-Tricked-Into-Shooting-Down-The-Ukrainian-Airlines-Plane-Over-Tehran

Compare the information there against what the detractors say here.

Daniel Rich , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 7:16 am GMT
@Quartermaster

The airliner had not been in the air long at all when it was shot down. An Airliner can not legally launch with deadlined transponder, so the claim that it quit transmitting "several" minutes earlier would have placed it on the ground when it quit.

The flight departed Tehran Imam Khomeini International Airport at 02:42 UTC ( 06:12 local time ) and the last ADS-B signal was received by the Flightradar24 network at 02:44 UTC( 06:14 local time) . According to the report the aircraft climbed to 8000 feet and turned right back toward the airport and crashed at 02:48 UTC ( 06:18 local time ) -- four minutes after the last ADS-B signal was received by the Flightradar24 network. – Source Flight Radar 24

Mr. Giraldi's original claim:

The Iranian missile operator reportedly experienced considerable "jamming" and the planes transponder switched off and stopped transmitting several minutes before the missiles were launched. There were also problems with the communication network of the air defense command, which may have been related.

4 minutes after the transponders were switches off, the plane crashed .

Without [proper] access to the FDR and CVR, it's impossible to determine when the plane was hit and how long it took to crash, exactly.

The plane was only flying at 8,000 feet [its normal {flight} ceiling is 30,000 feet and above], so it's speed relatively low [cruise speed is between about 400 and 500 knots (460 – 575 mph / 740 – 930 kph), but the Ukrainian plane was still climbing] and the fall back to Earth relatively quick.

On the clip where the plane is on fire and finally crashes, the downward angle looked to be about 25 to 30 %, which is relatively steep. Time of downfall can be calculated when the relative data is available.

Therefore, Mr Giraldi's claim " several minutes before the missiles were launched " is technically correct , until proven wrong by data from the FDR and CVR,

utu , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 7:31 am GMT
The Tor system is too primitive to be hacked. It is a stand alone, autonomous and mostly analog system. The radar signals it generates are shown on analog tube-screens.
Ghali , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 8:07 am GMT
Interesting theory by P. Giraldi. However, I am very surprised that Israel/Mossad role in these acts of terrorism never mentioned. We know that Trump is a Zionist servant and acts on instructions from his jewish fananciers. We know, Trump is incapable of serious thinking.

Here is a good article with some interesting observations:
https://sputniknews.com/columnists/202001131078026961-iran-jet-disaster-setup/

GMC , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 8:10 am GMT
The Iranians took the hit because their missiles took out the airliner. And then, they could stop the Western media crying for the next 6 mos. and this gave them time to bring in other neutral investigators to look at the evidence and come up with logical scenarios. There is a reason the black boxes weren't given to any one else to own – because they still remember the scam investigation of MH 17. I f lew planes for over 20 yrs – Every controlled/radared airport would ask me to turn on my transponder if it wasn't on – Everyone of them. This plane not only came from Ukraine but was an easy target for a hack from any of the big Intel countries. The BIG STORY here is that most every plane flying today – can have the same type consequences!!! because of the Western War Machine.
AZ , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 10:08 am GMT
Ask the Israelis. They are experts in these operations. The blood of the innocent on their heads

R D Steele has some interesting thoughts as well:

https://phibetaiota.net/2020/01/robert-steele-world-war-iii-was-ukrainian-flight-ps752-a-western-false-flag-combining-remote-hijacking-and-transponder-disabling-to-trigger-two-tor-m1-missiles/

lavoisier , says: Website Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 12:01 pm GMT
@Anon

Trump-Pence-Pompeo-Kushner-Netanyahu are ultimately responsible for these 176 lives lost. I suspect MBS is also part of the scheme. It was his fake peace offering that lured Soleimani to Iraq in the first place. I'm with Trudeau on this.

Trudeau showed some real courage criticizing Trump and his terrible decisions.

More Western allies have to stand up to the Zionist stooge and call him out on his treachery and stupidity.

UncommonGround , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 12:23 pm GMT
@bobhammer

The Democrats have gone too far.

I believe that P.G. has supported Trump until recently.

Besides, you could get some general information about such themes if you read articles like the following:

There's No Evidence Iran Is Responsible for the Deaths of Hundreds of Americans
by Stephen Zunes

https://progressive.org/dispatches/-no-evidence-iran-is-responsible-for-the-deaths-of-hundreds-of-americans-zunes-200107/

How the President Became a Drone Operator
by Allegra Harpootlian

https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/01/16/how-the-president-became-a-drone-operator/

lavoisier , says: Website Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 12:32 pm GMT
@bobhammer Stop drinking the Kool-Aid. Turn off Fox News now.

We are not always the good guys and we are up to our necks in deceit, plunder, and evil. Our actions have harmed millions of people around the world and it has to stop.

It is time for more self-reflection as individuals and as a nation; and it is long past time for us to be comfortable with lies.

Anonymous [401] Disclaimer , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 2:22 pm GMT
@bobhammer The "uninterruptible" autopilot can be activated – either by pilots or by on-board sensors, or by radio or satellite link<= connected to controls at the remote end. Government agencies, quasi government agencies, military brats and probably the entire group of privately operated NGOs and private party mobsters (bankers, corporations and private military armies and privateers) at the remote end, can take over control of in-flight Aircraft, and fly it, land it, take it off, whatever, even if the pilot sitting in the cockpit objects. and does all he can to retrieve control from the remote operator.

Several comments report says interrupt able remote control, allows, persons on the ground, to take from the pilot in a flying airplane, control of the airplane the pilot is suppose to be flying, in situations for example when terrorist are in the cockpit. I have not read the manufacture's literature nor do I have personal knowledge abut the equipment list of any of these aircraft, the list suggest they are all aircraft, not only equipped with the UAP but that they were all aircraft made by the same manufacturer. I am merely repeating what was on stated as fact on a website I visited.

Many are looking for proof that remotely equipped uninterruptible autopilots are being used as Remote Control weaponized drones . Imagine an pilot, located on the ground in London or somewhere parks his /her remote ground to air control vehicle and takes over flight control including turns on/off the transponder [<=which tells everyone where the plane is during its flight] on a plane that is flying, landing or taking off from say the Tehran airport in Iran?

My personal experience is that it generally takes less than 2 minutes after a transponder is turned off during a planes flight, before fighter jets arrive to escort the transponder disabled plane; so the whole system that protects civilian aircraft, and allows the military to know the aircraft is civilian, is dependent on the Transponder, installed in the airplane, to continuously squawk during flight, its exact position so that everyone can identify the flight, and track the aircraft during its flight. Every land based control tower, ATC control system center and military installation depends on that airborne squawking transponder to track the en-route progress of commercial and private aircraft flights from take off to landing.

Another comment made on that list referred to above claimed Uninterruptible Auto Pilot [UAP] equipped aircraft have been involved in unexplained flight accident/disappearance events (I have no personal knowledge about the equipment in these aircraft, I just repeated here what someone else said elsewhere, please verify these claims yourself or provide verification ) .

(4 @911) <=UAP allows pilot-less flights, no pilot need board the plane for its flight.
(PS752) (transponder turned off, destroyed by confused ground defense crews)
MH370 (vanished into thin air)
MH17 (had its flight path altered.)
Eyes focus on Uninterruptible Auto Pilot (UAP) .. to explain recent Tehran 160 person disaster?

This is really something to think about? Always the question has been how did four military officers from Iran, trained a few weeks in Florida to fly jets, manage to get through four differently located pilot screening TSA gates to fly the aircraft and passenger into the 9/11 events. Conspiracy theories suggest since no pilot is needed, there were no pilots for TSA to screening. Remote control on the ground flew the aircraft to their destinations.

Trinity , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 2:51 pm GMT
"By way of deception thou shalt do war."

Just about says it all doesn't it? What kind of people are we dealing with here? Of course only the morons out there are still being fooled by these kind of false flags. Even in the year 2020 these same morons still believe ZOG's 9-11 fairy tale and label any other theory as a "conspiracy." Speaking of conspiracies the biggest idiots out there, even bigger than the ones who believe ZOG's narrative or those type who believe the total wacktard stuff put out by ZIO controlled disinfo puppets like Alex Jones.

Ukrainian commercial airline? What other nation besides Iran does ZOG have it in for? Is it Russia?

War by deception? HARDLY to anyone with two brain cells left. These fools have been caught before, they aren't that clever. What they are is protected by a syndicate of bought and paid for politicians. They were caught attacking the USS Liberty, they were caught bombing American and British installations in Egypt, the Rosenbergs and Pollard were nailed, but of course despite all of this, America and her leaders continued the value Israel as a friend and an ally. With a friend like Israel, who needs enemies. Then of course we have the story of our 5 little dancing Israelis apprehended in NYC after being observed dancing and celebrating the WTC towers collapsing. So you mean a group of Israelis from Israel, nation that is ALLEGEDLY "friends" with America and America think it is hilarious and worth celebrating when America is attacked and thousands are burned alive or jump to their death from hundreds of feet above the street?? Of course "our" media quickly exonerated the celebrating Israelis and buried that story faster than your average house cat buries his own turds.

ZOG really thinks the average American has the IQ of a monkey. Even after the WMD caca they still think you people will believe anything they tell you to believe. The sad part is they are right about that with the majority of the population.

Pindos , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 4:01 pm GMT
@Anon Wrong anon

Identification, friend or foe (IFF) is a radar-based identification system designed for command and control. It uses a transponder that listens for an interrogation signal and then sends a response that identifies the broadcaster. It enables military and civilian air traffic control interrogation systems to identify aircraft, vehicles or forces as friendly and to determine their bearing and range from the interrogator. IFF may be used by both military and civilian aircraft.

unit472 , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 4:37 pm GMT
If such a capability exists would the US reveal and use it in such a minor circumstance. Occam's razor suggests this was just another case of 'better safe than sorry' during a time of military tensions. Not a whole lot different than the Vincennes shootdown of an Iranian airliner that came too close during a military confrontation in the Gulf.

I would hate to know how many 'friendly' aircraft were shot down by over zealous AAA gunners in WW2 but it wasn't just a handful.

scrub , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 5:24 pm GMT
Anybody who thinks that US-Israel wouldn't have been capable of staging such a horrific event as the shooting down of the airliner by Iran hasn't been following Whitney Webb's continuing articles which are available right here on UNZ. Israel seems to have insinuated itself into about every computer security program worldwide.

Webb's article mentions large scale defense contractor Dell Computer's close connection to the Israeli government. Dell computer head Michael Dell has personally made large contributions to that curious "charity" called The Friends of The Israeli Defense Forces as has Larry Ellison, head or Oracle Software. Interestingly enough, neither of them have made correspondingly large contributions to American veterans however.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friends_of_the_Israel_Defense_Forces

Michael Dell is probably one of the biggest (or the biggest) single contributors to the Republicans from Texas, home of Dell computer. Larry Ellison (also a large government computer contractor) is also one of the Republican Party's biggest contributors.

Ellison's $5.5 million dollar contribution to the Republican is dwarfed however, by his recent contributions to The Friends of the Israeli Defense Forces which seem to total (as of today) $31 million (or more).

https://www.timesofisrael.com/record-53-8-million-raised-for-idf-soldiers-at-beverly-hills-gala/

Are both men and their companies security risks? Is there any doubt of this or are contribution to charity connected to a foreign army now simply to be considered as being benign and innocent.

anon [230] Disclaimer , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 5:35 pm GMT
@Pindos Wrong anon

Identification, friend or foe (IFF) is a radar-based identification system designed for command and control. It uses a transponder that listens for an interrogation signal and then sends a response that identifies the broadcaster. It enables military and civilian air traffic control interrogation systems to identify aircraft, vehicles or forces as friendly and to determine their bearing and range from the interrogator. IFF may be used by both military and civilian aircraft.

Your Wikipedia snippet is absolutely incorrect . IFF is only used for Military Aircraft. If you want to prove me wrong:

Provide a link to any civilian transponder with IFF capability
Provide a link to any civilian aircraft Minimum Equipment List that requires an IFF

Rurik , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 5:38 pm GMT
@unit472

Vincennes shootdown of an Iranian airliner that came too close during a military confrontation in the Gulf.

Doesn't it rile you, as a U.S. veteran, that American soldiers are dying in treasonous service to an enemy nation?

Doesn't it bother you in the least, that Americans are on the hook for untold trillions of dollars, so they can slaughter innocent people, thousands of miles away, whose only "crime" is that a certain shitty little country, wants to see them all sent reeling into the stone age, (which is exactly what they want for you too).

Have y0u ever bothered to notice just exactly whom it is that is driving all the liberal-progressive shit we all see daily, with the ubiquitous homomania and Hollywood sewage force-injected into America's culture?

I see you occasionally speak against that stuff, but then when it comes to American soldiers dying on behalf of those rats, there you are, defending the narrative of Iran as bad guys.

How many Iranians do you see pumping Hollywood sewage into America's veins?

How many Iranians do you see on Capital Hill, demanding Trump and all his Deplorables are irredeemably racists? And need to have their guns taken away?

How many Iranians do you see at Goldman Sachs, (and the other 'Too big to fail Banksters) looting the country dry?

How many Iranians do you see in our universities, force-feeding America's youth the progressive-liberal monkey shit, they're paying to consume daily?

You'd have to be very myopic not to notice who it is behind America's depraved descent into cultural and spiritual guano. (not to mention the Eternal Wars, that only an imbecile could pretend not to notice ((who)) are behind them).

And I have a clue for you, it isn't the Iranians. In fact, they had a nice good taste of ((Western)) culture under the Shah, and they decided they'd rather not see their women whored out, and their children spiritually dead husks.

It'd be good if people could lift the veils they willfully allow to cover their own eyes, in some kind of misguided machismo about how tough "our" military are, as they're killing and dying on behalf of their worst enemy.

barr , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 5:48 pm GMT
@JimDandy Hpw did the instruction to "Fly direct" prove fatal to MH 17

MUMBAI: The ministry of civil aviation's claim that there was no Air India flight near the ill-fated Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 when it was shot down over Ukraine on Thursday appears misleading.
An Air India Dreamliner flight going from Delhi to Birmingham was in fact less than 25km away from the Malaysian aircraft,

Minutes before the crash caused by a missile strike, the AI pilots had also heard the controller give the Malaysian aircraft MH17 what is called "a direct routing". This permits an aircraft to fly straight, instead of tracking the regular route which is generally a zig-zag track that goes from one ground-based navigation aid or way point to another. "Direct routing saves fuel and time and is preferred by pilots. In this case, it proved fatal," said an airline source.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Air-India-flight-was-90-seconds-away-when-missile-struck-Malaysia-Airlines-Flight-MH17/articleshowprint/38702536.cms

1 Was India pressurized to deny the close proximity and 2 was it under pressure to deny that it heard the controller giving the instruction to MH 17????

Saggy , says: Website Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 6:09 pm GMT
@Anon http://www.dean-boys.com/extras/iff/iffqa.html

FAA regulations require that all aircraft, military or civilian, flying at an altitude of 10,000 feet or higher in U.S. controlled airspace, must be equipped with an operating IFF transponder system capable of automatic altitude reporting (this is the reason that two of the modes are used by both military and civilian aircraft).

So, did the Ukrainian plane have an IFF transponder or not? Ref?

Marvin Sandnes , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 6:52 pm GMT
The guy with the camera aimed up into a dark sky on that morning worked for a Saudi Arabia news service. From the "grayzone" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBGw5GMXb4c&feature=em-uploademail
wdg , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 6:58 pm GMT
Cui bono? Israel and its NeoCon fifth column operating in the US and throughout the western world.
Iris , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 7:01 pm GMT
@Quartermaster

what Giraldi has published doesn't even rise to the level of the most idiotic conspiracy theory one can concoct.

It happened only a few months ago that an Israeli jet violated Syria's airspace and deliberately sheltered behind a Russian Iliouchine IL-20 to get it shot down by Syrian air defence.

It was so very clearly and simply explained by the Russian Chief of Staff than any imbecile could understand it; the idiot is definitely you.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45556290

A123 , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 7:02 pm GMT
@Saggy I believe you are correct.

https://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/iff

My understanding is:

A civilian transponder will respond to almost any inquiry (or even a non-coded radar pulse):
-- Standard civilian transponder code = USA military Mode 3.
-- Standard civilian transponder altitude reporting = USA military Mode C.

To reduce detectability in combat, the pilot can change the setting on a Military IFF system to only squawk when a correctly coded interrogation signal is recieved.

Saggy , says: Website Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 7:28 pm GMT
@Saggy Moon Of Alabama has the story –

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/01/was-the-shootdown-of-the-ukrainian-airplane-near-tehran-really-a-mistake.html

The Boeing jet broadcast the usual civil ADS-B signal but one has to expect that a U.S. cruise missile can and would do the same.

although 'one can expect ' seems like one hell of an assumption.

Frederick V. Reed , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 7:30 pm GMT
Transponders are turned on and off with switches in the cockpit. Is Giraldi suggesting that this transponder was equipped to be controlled from outside? Source of assertion that transponder was turned off? Can he name any commercial transponder with this feature? Does he know anythng about elctroic warfare? This sounds like the birthing of a conspiracy theory.
Just passing through , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 8:07 pm GMT
@DaveE The hilarious thing in Britain is that many people on the comments sections of MSM will talk about 'Asian' or more specifically 'Muslim' child rape gangs, because these gangs were heavily Muslim they can be referred to using the adjective 'Muslim'.

But when you point out that the ones beating the drums for war in Iran and who successfully plunged America and UK into a long a protracted war in the Middle East are mostly Jewish, as evidenced by this article in the Israeli newspaper Haaretz

they start getting all pissy, because of the Holocaust legend, Jews are now above scrutiny and Jewish power cannot be talked about. It is the slipperly slope fallacy, what is merely being advocated for here is not to trust a single thing that comes out of the mouth of a Jew regarding the Middle East as there is a clear conflict of interest, not genocide.

I also suspect that peoples understandable antagonism towards Muslims has somehow made them more sympathetic to Israel. Tommy Robinson is for example funded by rich Jews like Ezra Levant of Rebel Media and Robert J. Shillman – who sits on the board of Friends of Israel Defence Forces – shills for Israel. Now the Western goyim start frothing at the mouth when they hear Muslim and so think countries like Iran are evil and out to destory the West, a laughable claim.

Iris , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 8:11 pm GMT
@Z-man

stupid Christian Zionist dogma

You don't have to apologise. Christian Zionists are no Christians; they are uncultured, criminal country-bumpkins utilised by their Zionist handlers to justify the destruction of the twice-millenary Christian Arab community.

Here is what real Christians think:
Mor Maurice Amsih, Syrian Orthodox Bishop of Euphrates, demonstrating against the murder of General Soleimani, calling Soleimani and his companions " martyrs " who are now " Saints in the Heavenly Kingdom" for their blood shed freeing the Syrian people from Zio-sponsored terrorists. [@ 0:25]

https://www.youtube.com/embed/1eH4djCP2mI?feature=oembed

Anonymous [230] Disclaimer , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 8:18 pm GMT
@Saggy

Moon Of Alabama has the story –

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/01/was-the-shootdown-of-the-ukrainian-airplane-near-tehran-really-a-mistake.html

The Boeing jet broadcast the usual civil ADS-B signal but one has to expect that a U.S. cruise missile can and would do the same.

although 'one can expect ' seems like one hell of an assumption.

This is absolutely irrelevant since the Iranian SAM missile launcher is so old it can not even detect and decode ADS-B signals. Note that the requirement for ADS-B transponders only came into effect this year .

AnonStarter , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 8:22 pm GMT
Some additional information to consider:

IRGC Releases Details of Accidental Downing of Ukrainian Plane

https://ifpnews.com/irgc-releases-details-of-accidental-downing-of-ukrainian-plane

By the account of Brigadier General Amir-Ali Hajizadeh:

1. Prior to the downing of the aircraft, Americans had threatened to hit 52 sites in Iran.
2. These threats placed Iran's air defense systems on the highest alert level.
3. There were reports that cruise missles had been fired at Iran.
4. In spite of IRGC requests that airspace be cleared of commercial flights, those requests were not met.
5. The air defense unit recognized Flight 752 as a cruise missle from a distance of 19 kilometers, but is still required to get approval to fire upon it.
6. When the operator attempts to get approval, he can not do so due to "disruption" of his communication system.
7. The operator is forced to make an independent decision in a 10 second window of time and fires upon the plane.

Russell Bentley , however, states that

1. the SA-15 system has an IFF interrogator built into its radar system,
2. Boeing 737 aircraft are equipped with two IFF transponders, which are set and activated prior to take off, and
3. it is possible for a plane to take off without an IFF transponder operating.
4. In spite of all this, the flight's recording on FLIGHTRADAR24.COM , proves that the transponder was on and working.
5. Even if there was no IFF signal, a SA-15/TOR M-1 operator could still determine the location, bearing, speed and size of the potential target.
6. The SA-15 also has an automatic all weather day/night NV/IR Electro Optical Targeting System (EOTS) used for target engagement and fire control by which the plane would have been easily identified.
7. Flight 752 should have been identifiable as a commercial airliner by its external lights alone.

From this information, he concludes that either there are traitors within Iran seeking to facilitate regime change or that the downing of Flight 752 was a false flag operation perpetrated by the usual suspects.

I'd like to see more information about this topic from those qualified to speak about it.

A123 , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 9:29 pm GMT
@AnonStarter

2. These threats placed Iran's air defense systems on the highest alert level
7. The operator is forced to make an independent decision in a 10 second window of time and fires upon the plane.

How long were the operators on alert? Tension and sleep deprivation are a bad mix. This looks like the crew on the ground had seconds to make a decision, and in the rush got it wrong.

I'm not sure how anyone on the outside could tell if the operator made the launch by mistake or from ill intent. No doubt the crew will be given the Richard Jewell treatment in an attempt to deflect blame from the religious hierarchy.

anonymous [393] Disclaimer , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 9:40 pm GMT
@AnonStarter

1. the SA-15 system has an IFF interrogator built into its radar system,

Correct

2. Boeing 737 aircraft are equipped with two IFF transponders, which are set and activated prior to take off, and

Incorrect The Boeing 737 aircrfat has two ATC Transponders only one of which is activated prior to takeoff. The second ATC transponder is only activated if the first one fails. An ATC Transponder is NOT an IFF transponder.

3. it is possible for a plane to take off without an IFF transponder operating.

Incorrect . A functioning ATC transponder is part the Boeing 737 Minimum Equipment List which is available here . The only way the Ukraine Air crew could have gotten around this requirement was to get prior permission from the Iranian Civil Aviation Authority and EVERY other country's Cicil Aviation Authority in its flight path which I can guarantee you would not be forthcoming.

5. Even if there was no IFF signal, a SA-15/TOR M-1 operator could still determine the location, bearing, speed and size of the potential target.

Incorrect The operator could determine range, range rate. and bearing if the transponder was not function.

6. The SA-15 also has an automatic all weather day/night NV/IR Electro Optical Targeting System (EOTS) used for target engagement and fire control by which the plane would have been easily identified.

The plane was at least 1.5 miles away (8000 ft altitude). You go get yourself a pair of Night Vision/Infra Red scopes and see how well you do identifying different aircraft from that distance

Just passing through , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 10:12 pm GMT
@Ron Unz One good article to show people in relation to the Israel Lobby's influence on America's decision to go to war in Iraq is an article in Israeli newspaper Haaretz titled White Man's Burden which carries the following subheading;

The war in Iraq was conceived by 25 neoconservative intellectuals, most of them Jewish, who are pushing President Bush to change the course of history. Two of them, journalists William Kristol and Charles Krauthammer, say it's possible. But another journalist, Thomas Friedman (not part of the group), is skeptical.

This comes from a reputable newspaper from Israel so cannot be dismissed as the ravings of some neo-Nazis. I have found this to have the most success in getting people online to think about the Iraq War more, it is impossible for detractors to label a link to an Israeli newspaper article as "anti-Semitic" without looking absurd.

I would find the UN's review kind of hard to recommend to people in real life simple because of the provocative nature of the stories it runs. The American Pravda series is of course very informative but the articles require quite a bit of time to read through and check the hyperlinks within the article itself. Without sounding like someone with a superiority complex, most people cannot read this much information and grasp it. Many will not touch articles relating to Holocaust Denial or race.

But anyway, you sir are doing great work with the maintenance and story selection on this website and I wish you the best of luck in the future. It certainly has armed me with lots of information that I can use to counter mainstream narratives in a whole host of issues. Although my efforts in real life have not been very successful, I do seem to be getting some success in my cyber-activism on mainstream news websites, where I am able to provide a clear and cogent narrative with links to reputable websites and not come across as a nutjob who raves about da jooz .

Curmudgeon , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 10:19 pm GMT
@Anon Sharpen your reading skills. Civilian aircraft have different frequency transponders than military aircraft. Flight plans are filed, and the transponder signals correspond to filed flight plans. When attacking, military craft turn off their transponders. No transponder signal = no corresponding flight plan = unfriendly aircraft.
There is no need to "spoof" anything, once the transponder stops signalling. That aside, I found it curious that this particular airplane was on its first flight after major maintenance. Who knows what was done in servicing. If the computer in the car you drive can be hijacked to cause sudden acceleration or brake failurs, an airplane's certainly can.
Curmudgeon , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 10:22 pm GMT
@lavoisier Unfortunately, Trudeau is just a different sort of Zionist stooge. His mentor, Irwin Cotler, is popular enough in Israel to be President.

[Jan 18, 2020] Actually Boeing has an uninterruptable autopilot system that can result in remote control of the plane.

Jan 18, 2020 | www.moonofalabama.org

lgfocus , Jan 16 2020 20:10 utc | 25

A P @5

Actually Boeing has an uninterruptable autopilot system that can result in remote control of the plane.
FLIGHT CONTROL: Boeing's 'Uninterruptible Autopilot System', Drones & Remote Hijacking
https://21stcenturywire.com/2014/08/07/flight-control-boeings-uninterruptible-autopilot-system-drones-remote-hijacking/
This article is about the lost MH370.

Abel Danger went into quite a discussion of this during the 9/11 event that had 2 planes crashing into the towers. I can't find it on youtube any longer. A lot of their YTubes have been deleted.


[Jan 18, 2020] Open Thread 2020-04

Jan 18, 2020 | www.moonofalabama.org

zarathustra , Jan 16 2020 17:23 utc | 2

I saw in the Jan. 15 @2130 Teheran Times that, "TEHRAN – A possible disruption in Iran's radar network by the U.S. may have caused the operator mistake the Ukrainian passenger plan for an incoming American cruise missile, at top Iranian military official said late on Tuesday."

Read article at https://www.tehrantimes.com/news/444219/Iran-probing-possible-U-S-disruption-in-radar-system-that-caused

It wouldn't be at all surprising.


psychohistorian , Jan 16 2020 17:46 utc | 4

@ zarathustra and james about the Ukrainian plane downing

Here is another link saying similar things

Iranian Military Now Claims US 'Cyberattack' Brought Down Passenger Plane

A P , Jan 16 2020 18:09 utc | 5
A Canadian here... The yappy-lapdog Canadian gov't is "demanding" a whole lot of control over the investigation, yet in the same breath demands "impartial" analysis and prosecution of the perps... by definition, the Cdn gov't is not impartial, it is a vassal administration of the US/ZATO/5Eyes MIC.

More importantly, will the black box show what happened regarding reports that the plane's transponder had been shut off shortly after take-off and before the missiles were launched. It is known from the MH370 investigation that Boeing planes automatically report back to Boeing head office with various bits of telemetry. Is it such a stretch that Boeing has various "backdoors" in the 737 flight computers which could allow the transponders to be shut off remotely? The CIA/Mossad surely would know about such backdoors, being Boeing is part and parcel of the US MIC.

The Canadian rabid response smacks of trying to hide or get ahead of any proof of the above.

John Merryman. , Jan 16 2020 18:13 utc | 6
Looking at all the stories coming out, the deep state is getting pretty serious about getting rid of Trump.
What if they get Biden as the democratic nominee too and we have a Pence/Biden matchup?
Top that with everything the Fed is doing to keep the market bubble from bursting and it raises interesting possibilities.
Trump laughing it up from the sidelines, for one thing.
Hausmeister , Jan 16 2020 18:14 utc | 7
psychohistorian | Jan 16 2020 17:46 utc | 4

This Nariman Gharib or his commanders are straightout stupid. With this behaviour they confirm the suspicion that the incident was staged. While proof of electronic warfare to create the havoc may never come or is impossible to obtain the main weakness of the effort is the fact that filming the event in the middle of the night from a rooftop is explainable only if the camera guy has known what would happen where. - Staged to overshadow the impressive triumph the Iranians had with the attack on the Iraqi US base.

[Jan 17, 2020] Ukraine is a deeply sick patient. The destiny of ordinary Ukrainians is deeply tragic. Diaspora is greedy and want a piece of cake immediately

Highly recommended!
Edited for clarity
Notable quotes:
"... The infrastructure they inherited from the USSR mostly is now fully amortized. For example railway park in in complete ruin. Central heating pipeline communications in cities like Kiev are in ruins too. In the USSR they tried to reuse the heat from electric stations and have elaborate hot water delivery networks from each, which provided heat to a large city blocks. Now pipes are completely rusted (which in 30 years is no surprise) and are in the state of constant repair. ..."
"... But when the standard of living dropped to such extent as it dropped after 2014 sentiments toward even slightly different ethnic groups turn hostile too. This is the case in Ukraine. In this sense you are wrong. There is no more unity now then existed before 2014. I would say there is less unity now. ..."
"... Sentiments turned against both Donbass dwellers and Ukrainians from Western Ukraine. In Kiev the derogatory term for both categories is "ponaekhali" ("come to overcrowd the place and displace us", or something along those lines; it's difficult to translate, but the term carries strong derogatory meaning) ..."
"... The nationalistic hysteria of 2014-2017 now mostly changed into deep depression: how a tiny group of far right nationalist and football hooligan gangs managed to get to power against the will of the majority of the country and destroy its economy. That's why Zelensky was elected and most far right parliamentarians lost their seats. Most of Western Ukraine voted for him, which is telling you something. ..."
"... The problem for Ukraine is that with the cut of economic ties with Russia the natural path for economics is probably down. De-industrialization, Baltic style, is raining supreme. Many enterprises survived the period from 1991 to 2014 only due to orders from Russia. Especially remnants of military industrial complex and manufacturing industry. Now what? Selling land (like Zelensky is trying to do) ? ..."
Jan 17, 2020 | www.unz.com

likbez says:January 17, 2020 at 8:35 am GMT • 1,500 Words @AP AP,

I agree with JPM:

I feel like robber barons in Kyiv have harmed you more through their looting of the country than impoverished Eastern Ukrainians, who were the biggest losers in the post-Soviet deindustrilization, have harmed you by existing and dying of diseases of poverty and despair.

It reminds me of how coastal shit-libs in America talk about "fly-over" country and want all the poor whites in Appalachia to die. I'm living in a country whose soul is totally poisoned. A country that is dying. While all this is happening, whites have split themselves into little factions focused on political point scoring.

I doubt people like Zelensky, Kolomoisky, Poroshenko and all the rest are going to turn Ukraine into an earthly paradise. They're more likely to be Neros playing harps, while Ukraine burns.

Looks like your understanding of Ukraine is mostly based of a short trip to Lvov and reading neoliberal MSM and forums. That's not enough, unless you want to be the next Max Boot.

Ukraine is a deeply sick patient, which surprisingly still stands despite all hardships (Ukrainians demonstrated amazing, superhuman resilience in the crisis that hit them, which greatly surprised all experts).

The infrastructure they inherited from the USSR mostly is now fully amortized. For example railway park in in complete ruin. Central heating pipeline communications in cities like Kiev are in ruins too. In the USSR they tried to reuse the heat from electric stations and have elaborate hot water delivery networks from each, which provided heat to a large city blocks. Now pipes are completely rusted (which in 30 years is no surprise) and are in the state of constant repair.

And, what is really tragic Ukraine now it is a debt state. Usually the latter is the capital sentence for the county. Few managed to escape even in more favorable conditions (South Korea is one.) So chances of economic recovery are slim: with such level of parasitic rent to the West the natural path is down and down. Don't cry for me Argentina.

And there is no money to replace already destroyed due to bad maintenance infrastructure, but surprisingly large parts of Soviets era infrastructure still somehow hold. For example, electrical networks, subway cars. But other part are already crumbling.

For example, in Kiev that means in some buildings you have winter without central heating, you have elevators in 16-storey buildings that work one or two weeks in month, you have no hot water, sometimes you have no water at all for a week or more, etc). Pensioners have problem with paying heating bills, so some of them are forced to live in non-heated apartments.

And that's in Kiev/Kyiv (Western Ukrainians love to change established names, much like communists) . In provincial cities it is a real horror show when even electricity supply became a problem. The countryside dwellers at least has its own food, but the situation for them is also very very difficult.

Other big problem -- few jobs and almost no well paid job, unless you are young, know English and have a university education (and are lucky). Before 2014 approximately 70% of Ukrainian labor migrants (in total a couple of million) came from the western part of the country, in which migration had become a widespread method of coping with poverty, the absence of jobs and low salaries.

Now this practice spread to the whole county. That destroyed many families.

The USA plays its usual games selling vassals crap at inflated prices (arms, uranium rods, coal, locomotives, cars, etc) , which Ukrainians can't refuse. Trump is simply a typical gangster in this respect, running a protection racket.

The rate of emigration and shrinking population is another fundamental problem. Mass emigration ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Ukraine ) is continuing even after Zelensky election. Looting by the West also continues unabated. This is disaster capitalism in action.

Add to those problems inflated military expenses to fight the civil war in Donbass which deprives other sectors of necessary funds (with the main affect of completely alienating Russia) and "Huston, we have a problem."

May be this is a natural path for xUSSR countries after the dissolution of the USSR, I don't know.

But the destiny of ordinary Ukrainians is deeply tragic: they wanted better life and got a really harsh one. Especially pensioners (typical pension is something like $60-$70) a month in Kiev, much less outside of Kiev. How they physically survive I do not fully understand.

There are still pro-Russian areas but being free of Crimea and Donbass means Ukraine can no longer be characterized as "split."

I agree that there is a substantial growth of anti-Russian sentiments. It is really noticeable. As well as growth of the usage of the Ukrainian language (previously Kiev, unlike Lvov was completely Russian-language city).

And in Western Ukraine Russiphobia was actually always a part of "national identity". The negative definition of national identity, if you wish. See popular slogan "Hto ne skache toi moskal" ("those who do not jump are Moskal" -- where Moskal is the derogatory name for a Russian). Here is this slogan in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6rfqr9afMc ;-)

But when the standard of living dropped to such extent as it dropped after 2014 sentiments toward even slightly different ethnic groups turn hostile too. This is the case in Ukraine. In this sense you are wrong. There is no more unity now then existed before 2014. I would say there is less unity now.

Sentiments turned against both Donbass dwellers and Ukrainians from Western Ukraine. In Kiev the derogatory term for both categories is "ponaekhali" ("come to overcrowd the place and displace us", or something along those lines; it's difficult to translate, but the term carries strong derogatory meaning) .

"Donetskie" (former Donbass dwellers, often displaced by the war) are generally strongly resented and luxury cars, villas, etc and other excesses of neoliberal elite are attributed mostly to them (Donbass neoliberal elite did moved to Kiev, not Moscow) , while "zapadentsi" are also, albeit less strongly, resented because they often use clan politics within institutions, and often do not put enough effort (or are outright incompetent), as they rely on its own clan ties for survival.

This sentiment is stronger to the south of Kiev where the resentment is directed mainly against Western Ukrainians, not against "Donetskie" like in Kiev. And I am talking not only about Odessa. Western Ukrainians are now strongly associated with corrupt ways of getting lucrative positions (via family, clan or political connections), being incompetent and doing nothing useful.

What surprise me is that this resentment against "zapadentsi" and "Poloshenko clan" is shared by many people from Western Ukraine. The target is often slightly more narrow, for example Hutsuls in Lviv ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutsuls )

The nationalistic hysteria of 2014-2017 now mostly changed into deep depression: how a tiny group of far right nationalist and football hooligan gangs managed to get to power against the will of the majority of the country and destroy its economy. That's why Zelensky was elected and most far right parliamentarians lost their seats. Most of Western Ukraine voted for him, which is telling you something.

The problem for Ukraine is that with the cut of economic ties with Russia the natural path for economics is probably down. De-industrialization, Baltic style, is raining supreme. Many enterprises survived the period from 1991 to 2014 only due to orders from Russia. Especially remnants of military industrial complex and manufacturing industry. Now what? Selling land (like Zelensky is trying to do) ?

Ukraine will probably eventually lose a large part of its chemical industry because without subsidies for gas it just can't complete even taking into account low labor costs. And manufacturing because without Russian market it is difficult to find a place for their production in already established markets, competing only in price and suffering in quality (I remember something about Iraq returning Ukrainians all ordered armored carriers due to defect is the the armor https://sputniknews.com/military/201705221053859853-armored-vehicles-defects-extent /). Although at least for the Ukrainian arm industry there is place on the market in countries which are used to old Soviet armaments, because those are rehashed Soviet products.

Add to this corrupt and greedy diaspora (all those Jaresko, Chalupas, Freelands, Vindmans, etc ) from the USA and Canada (and not only diaspora -- look at Biden, Kerry, etc) who want their piece of the pie after 2014 "Revolution of dignity" (what a sad joke) and you will see the problems more clearly. Not that much changed from the period 1991-2014 where Ukraine was also royally fleeced by own oligarchs allied with Western banksers, simply now this leads to quicker deterioration of the standard of living.

None of Eastern European countries benefited from a color revolution staged by the USA. This is about opening the country not only to multinationals (while they loot the county they at least behave within a certain legal bounds, demonstrating at least decency of gangsters like in Godfather), but to petty foreign criminals from diaspora and outside of it who allies with the local oligarchs and smaller nouveau riche and are siphoning all the county wealth to western banks as soon as possible. Greed of the disapora is simply unbounded. https://neweasterneurope.eu/2016/08/26/the-ukrainian-diaspora-as-a-recipient-of-oligarchic-cash/

Of course, Ukrainian diaspora is not uniform. Still, outside well-know types from the tiny Mid-Eastern country, the most dangerous people for Ukraine are probably Ukrainians from diaspora with dual citizenship

[Jan 17, 2020] Ukraine demographic problem

Of course the USA do not care, but the trend ofter 2014 color revolution financed and organized by the USA (with Germany Poland and Sweden in supporting roles) is devastating...
Jan 17, 2020 | www.unz.com

AnonFromTN , says: January 15, 2020 at 6:12 pm GMT

@Anatoly Karlin Donbass people ran with the territories. In addition, half a million Ukrainian citizens got Russian citizenship in 2019. Optimists put Ukrainian population at 35 million, pessimists at 22-24 million, but half a million in a single year is a huge number in either case.

Finally, my interest in the opinions of me (or anything else, for that matter) of various "svidomy" and "svyadomy" personages is about the same as my interest in the opinions of cockroaches or ants. In one case, what they fought for has already befallen them, in the other – the same thing is likely to happen. In both cases Russia should not burden itself with unnecessary dead weight.

[Jan 17, 2020] German Parliament Office Reports No Russian Invasion of Eastern Ukraine, Rejects Media and Government Propaganda

Jan 17, 2020 | thenewkremlinstooge.wordpress.com

Takes a look and finds no reliable information to support the claim John Helmer 1 day ago 1064 2

A report by a research unit of the German Bundestag, just released in Berlin, has defied the narrative of the European Union, NATO and the US, with the conclusion that since the Ukraine civil war began in early 2014, there has been no reliable evidence of Russian troop invasion or intervention by regular Russian military forces in the Donbass region of eastern Ukraine.

After a review of the press, official public releases and reports, as well as European court rulings, the Bundestag's experts have described the outcome with the German phrase, ohne belastbares Faktenmaterial – "without reliable fact material."

The Bundestag report, which runs to 17 pages and was completed on December 9, has been noted in the German-language media. To date, however, it has been ignored by the Anglo-American press, including the alt-media.

The new German report is entitled "Intervention in civil war zones: The role of Russia during the east Ukraine conflict". It was prepared by the foreign, international law and defence department (WD-2) of the Scientific Services Bureau of the Bundestag.

In a preface to the report, the authors say they "support the members of the German Bundestag with mandate-related activity. Their works do not express the view of the German Bundestag, its individual organs, or the management of the Bundestag." Responsibility for the research reporting is "the technical responsibility of the authors as well as the department management." No authors have been identified by name.

The full German report can be read at the official website link. No official English translation is available.

For five years Ukrainian armed forces and pro-Russian separatists have been fighting against each other in the Donbass/Donets Basin," the report says. " The territorial conflict shows classical identifiers of a non-international (internal) armed conflict. About the extent, quality and magnitude of the military involvement of Russia during the Ukraine conflict, there are few reliable facts and analyses aside from the numerous speculations, part-contradictory reports and press announcements, and denials from different sources. Altogether, however, the picture of the situation is not unequivocal."

"Also, the Federal [German] Government holds no reliable knowledge, according to its own information apparently, on how much influence today Russia actually exercises on the separatists in the East Ukraine that can be described as credible."

The report summarizes western media reports, social media posts, as well as NATO press releases in order to cast doubt on their veracity. "Reliable information about the parts of the region of the Ukrainian-Russian border not controlled by Kiev is rare." The German researchers are also sceptical of claims published by the monitoring mission of the area from the Organization for Security and Economic Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) which "has, in spite of its comprehensive mandate, only limited access to this area."

For background details of the anti-Russian leadership of the OSCE's special monitoring mission (SMM) in Ukraine, read this .

"The question of whether pro-Russian separatists in the Donbass region are currently under control and directed from Moscow, or whether regular Russian troops still remain on Ukrainian territory cannot be answered without reliable factual material, in particular without the appropriate and reliable secret service intelligence."

Source: Dances With Bears

Mychal Arnold a day ago The West are liars! 3 ReplyShare › Avatar CHUCKMAN a day ago Well, it's a small good thing, but where were they for all these years?

Four years of Poroshenko's destructive nonsense went unchallenged.

And why is Germany still supporting American sanctions against Russia?

I might add, too, wouldn't it be a sound idea to investigate first before supporting any hostile policies of America abroad, as in Syria or Iran?

Is it really too much to expect that one understands the facts before supporting hostilities?

But that's dreaming in Technicolor.

It's just not the world America has constructed for us all, by brute force.

[Jan 16, 2020] Who Targeted Ukraine Airlines Flight 752 Iran Shot It Down But There May Be More to the Story by Philip Giraldi

Jan 16, 2020 | www.unz.com

What seems to have been a case of bad judgments and human error does, however, include some elements that have yet to be explained. The Iranian missile operator reportedly experienced considerable "jamming" and the planes transponder switched off and stopped transmitting several minutes before the missiles were launched . There were also problems with the communication network of the air defense command, which may have been related.

The electronic jamming coming from an unknown source meant that the air defense system was placed on manual operation, relying on human intervention to launch. The human role meant that an operator had to make a quick judgment in a pressure situation in which he had only moments to react. The shutdown of the transponder, which would have automatically signaled to the operator and Tor electronics that the plane was civilian, instead automatically indicated that it was hostile. The operator, having been particularly briefed on the possibility of incoming American cruise missiles, then fired.

The two missiles that brought the plane down came from a Russian-made system designated SA-15 by NATO and called Tor by the Russians. Its eight missiles are normally mounted on a tracked vehicle. The system includes both radar to detect and track targets as well as an independent launch system, which includes an Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) system functionality capable of reading call signs and transponder signals to prevent accidents. Given what happened on that morning in Tehran, it is plausible to assume that something or someone deliberately interfered with both the Iranian air defenses and with the transponder on the airplane, possibly as part of an attempt to create an aviation accident that would be attributed to the Iranian government.

The SA-15 Tor defense system used by Iran has one major vulnerability. It can be hacked or "spoofed," permitting an intruder to impersonate a legitimate user and take control. The United States Navy and Air Force reportedly have developed technologies "that can fool enemy radar systems with false and deceptively moving targets." Fooling the system also means fooling the operator. The Guardian has also reported independently how the United States military has long been developing systems that can from a distance alter the electronics and targeting of Iran's available missiles.

The same technology can, of course, be used to alter or even mask the transponder on a civilian airliner in such a fashion as to send false information about identity and location. The United States has the cyber and electronic warfare capability to both jam and alter signals relating to both airliner transponders and to the Iranian air defenses. Israel presumably has the same ability. Joe Quinn at Sott.net also notes an interested back story to those photos and video footage that have appeared in the New York Times and elsewhere showing the Iranian missile launch, the impact with the plane and the remains after the crash, to include the missile remains. They appeared on January 9 th , in an Instagram account called ' Rich Kids of Tehran '. Quinn asks how the Rich Kids happened to be in "a low-income housing estate on the city's outskirts [near the airport] at 6 a.m. on the morning of January 8 th with cameras pointed at the right part of the sky in time to capture a missile hitting a Ukrainian passenger plane ?"

Put together the Rich Kids and the possibility of electronic warfare and it all suggests a premeditated and carefully planned event of which the Soleimani assassination was only a part. There have been riots in Iran subsequent to the shooting down of the plane, blaming the government for its ineptitude. Some of the people in the street are clearly calling for the goal long sought by the United States and Israel, i.e. "regime change." If nothing else, Iran, which was widely seen as the victim in the killing of Soleimani, is being depicted in much of the international media as little more than another unprincipled actor with blood on its hands. There is much still to explain about the downing of Ukrainian International Airlines Flight 752.

Philip M. Giraldi, Ph.D., is Executive Director of the Council for the National Interest, a 501(c)3 tax deductible educational foundation (Federal ID Number #52-1739023) that seeks a more interests-based U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East.


AnonStarter , says: Show Comment January 15, 2020 at 10:45 pm GMT

Given this news, any impartial observer would at least entertain the possibility of its truth, particularly given the lengthy track record of the United States/Israel in perpetrating such crimes.

It's a good litmus test for determining where one's sentiment lies. Even "alternative media" aren't likely to touch this story.

Bravo to Mr. Giraldi and Mr. Unz.

Sean , says: Show Comment January 15, 2020 at 11:10 pm GMT
The Iranian Ambassador to Britain, Hamid Baeidinejad said in an interview on the UK Channel 4 news hours ago that although Iran had needed time to determine what had happened, it had now accepted responsibility, would pay compensation, and the people who fired on the jet will be put on trial.

If nothing else, Iran, which was widely seen as the victim in the killing of Soleimani, is being depicted in much of the international media as little more than another unprincipled actor with blood on its hands.

Both Trump and the Iranian regime have good domestic disquiet reason to rethink the confrontational policy each are pursuing. Iran and the US could get closer over this. I think the predictable unpredictability of assassination and catastrophic loss of life events makes false flagging them of dubious value.

Why did I rob banks? Because I enjoyed it. I loved it. I was more alive when I was inside a bank, robbing it, than at any other time in my life. I enjoyed everything about it so much that one or two weeks later I'd be out looking for the next job. But to me the money was the chips, that's all.

(Sutton W, Linn E: Where the Money Was: The Memoirs of a Bank Robber. Viking Press (1976), p. 160)

I suppose it is possible there are people who get addicted to false flagging others' deaths. If half of what is said in this site is true, Mossad really needs to set up a 12 step program.

onebornfree , says: Website Show Comment January 15, 2020 at 11:49 pm GMT
" .the big question which many people on social media are asking is: why was this "videographer" standing in a derelict industrial area outside Tehran at around six o'clock in the morning with a mobile phone camera training on a fixed angle to the darkened sky? The airliner is barely visible, yet the sky-watching person has the camera pointed and ready to film a most dramatic event, seconds before it happened. That strongly suggests, foreknowledge."

"Iran Jet Disaster Setup – Who Is the Mysterious Videographer?:"
https://ahtribune.com/world/north-africa-south-west-asia/iran/3809-jet-disaster-setup.html

And I would add: how do we know the video[s] are even genuine? [Answer: we don't, it is only an unproven assumption at this time].

Regards, onebornfree

anonymous [150] Disclaimer , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 12:36 am GMT
Hmmm, cameras waiting beforehand, transponders not working. Sort of sounds like 9-11, doesn't it?
The Alarmist , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 3:01 am GMT

The Iranian missile operator reportedly experienced considerable "jamming" and the planes transponder switched off and stopped transmitting several minutes before the missiles were launched.

I vaguely recall reports of transponder issues arising during the shootdown of MH-17.

anonymous [405] Disclaimer , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 3:49 am GMT

Civilian passenger flights were still departing and arriving in Tehran, almost certainly an error in judgment on the part of the airport authorities. Inexplicably, civilian aircraft continued to take off and land even after Flight 752 was shot down.

The Iranian government is blameworthy for keeping planes in the air either because of diabolical reasons (delays a counter attack) or economic (nearly $1 billion a year in overflight fees).

However, the pilots of the airliners that took over during the morning between the first missile hitting Iraq and the downing of the Ukrainian airliner were dumb and irresponsible.

Anon [230] Disclaimer , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 4:10 am GMT

The system includes both radar to detect and track targets as well as an independent launch system, which includes an Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) system functionality capable of reading call signs and transponder signals to prevent accidents.

Clearly you have no clue how an IFF operates and that no commercial airliner even has an IFF on board. Every commercial aircraft looks like the enemy to this SAM operator.

Also, you need to explain how spoofing a RADAR which creates a false track would cause the shoot down. The missile would simply target the false track instead of the real aircraft.

You also need to explain how an old SAM missile site can be hacked or spoofed to shoot down a civilian airliner. Especially this old one which has no Mode-S or ADS-B capability and only radio communication capability.

As Mark Twain said, it's better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are an idiot rather than open it and remove all doubt.

Anon [200] Disclaimer , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 5:20 am GMT
Even if this was a clear mistake on Iran's part, the US and Israel still have blood on their hands for the downing of this plane. The missiles were launched in response to a targeted killing of an Iranian general. If that didn't happen, these missiles never would've been launched.

Trump-Pence-Pompeo-Kushner-Netanyahu are ultimately responsible for these 176 lives lost. I suspect MBS is also part of the scheme. It was his fake peace offering that lured Soleimani to Iraq in the first place. I'm with Trudeau on this.

Onlooker , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 5:22 am GMT
@Anon Before calling someone an idiot it is better to follow Mark Twain's advice yourself. A more careful reading reveals no claim that IFF was onstalled on the airliner. The commenter does speculate that possible spoofing involved a false attribution of a real airliner not the creation of a false airliner and radar track. Perhaps you are familiar with "old" electronic countermeasures and not with the "new", "top secret" and spiffy versions hinted at by the U.S. military?
AnonStarter , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 6:30 am GMT
@Quartermaster /An Airliner can not legally launch with deadlined transponder, so the claim that it quit transmitting "several" minutes earlier would have placed it on the ground when it quit./

From the SoTT link :

As it climbed and reached 4,600ft above ground level, the plane's transponder suddenly stopped working at about 6.14am, 2 minutes or so after take off . [emphasis added]

The plane was already airborne when the transponder stopped working.

AnonStarter , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 6:45 am GMT
@Onlooker Less than twenty replies into the thread and we've already got two individuals attempting to distort the facts. Here's the key link that readers should visit:

https://www.sott.net/article/427303-Was-Iranian-Missile-Operator-Tricked-Into-Shooting-Down-The-Ukrainian-Airlines-Plane-Over-Tehran

Compare the information there against what the detractors say here.

Daniel Rich , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 7:16 am GMT
@Quartermaster

The airliner had not been in the air long at all when it was shot down. An Airliner can not legally launch with deadlined transponder, so the claim that it quit transmitting "several" minutes earlier would have placed it on the ground when it quit.

The flight departed Tehran Imam Khomeini International Airport at 02:42 UTC ( 06:12 local time ) and the last ADS-B signal was received by the Flightradar24 network at 02:44 UTC( 06:14 local time) . According to the report the aircraft climbed to 8000 feet and turned right back toward the airport and crashed at 02:48 UTC ( 06:18 local time ) -- four minutes after the last ADS-B signal was received by the Flightradar24 network. – Source Flight Radar 24

Mr. Giraldi's original claim:

The Iranian missile operator reportedly experienced considerable "jamming" and the planes transponder switched off and stopped transmitting several minutes before the missiles were launched. There were also problems with the communication network of the air defense command, which may have been related.

4 minutes after the transponders were switches off, the plane crashed .

Without [proper] access to the FDR and CVR, it's impossible to determine when the plane was hit and how long it took to crash, exactly.

The plane was only flying at 8,000 feet [its normal {flight} ceiling is 30,000 feet and above], so it's speed relatively low [cruise speed is between about 400 and 500 knots (460 – 575 mph / 740 – 930 kph), but the Ukrainian plane was still climbing] and the fall back to Earth relatively quick.

On the clip where the plane is on fire and finally crashes, the downward angle looked to be about 25 to 30 %, which is relatively steep. Time of downfall can be calculated when the relative data is available.

Therefore, Mr Giraldi's claim " several minutes before the missiles were launched " is technically correct , until proven wrong by data from the FDR and CVR,

utu , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 7:31 am GMT
The Tor system is too primitive to be hacked. It is a stand alone, autonomous and mostly analog system. The radar signals it generates are shown on analog tube-screens.
Ghali , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 8:07 am GMT
Interesting theory by P. Giraldi. However, I am very surprised that Israel/Mossad role in these acts of terrorism never mentioned. We know that Trump is a Zionist servant and acts on instructions from his jewish fananciers. We know, Trump is incapable of serious thinking.

Here is a good article with some interesting observations:
https://sputniknews.com/columnists/202001131078026961-iran-jet-disaster-setup/

GMC , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 8:10 am GMT
The Iranians took the hit because their missiles took out the airliner. And then, they could stop the Western media crying for the next 6 mos. and this gave them time to bring in other neutral investigators to look at the evidence and come up with logical scenarios. There is a reason the black boxes weren't given to any one else to own – because they still remember the scam investigation of MH 17. I f lew planes for over 20 yrs – Every controlled/radared airport would ask me to turn on my transponder if it wasn't on – Everyone of them. This plane not only came from Ukraine but was an easy target for a hack from any of the big Intel countries. The BIG STORY here is that most every plane flying today – can have the same type consequences!!! because of the Western War Machine.
AZ , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 10:08 am GMT
Ask the Israelis. They are experts in these operations. The blood of the innocent on their heads

R D Steele has some interesting thoughts as well:

https://phibetaiota.net/2020/01/robert-steele-world-war-iii-was-ukrainian-flight-ps752-a-western-false-flag-combining-remote-hijacking-and-transponder-disabling-to-trigger-two-tor-m1-missiles/

lavoisier , says: Website Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 12:01 pm GMT
@Anon

Trump-Pence-Pompeo-Kushner-Netanyahu are ultimately responsible for these 176 lives lost. I suspect MBS is also part of the scheme. It was his fake peace offering that lured Soleimani to Iraq in the first place. I'm with Trudeau on this.

Trudeau showed some real courage criticizing Trump and his terrible decisions.

More Western allies have to stand up to the Zionist stooge and call him out on his treachery and stupidity.

UncommonGround , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 12:23 pm GMT
@bobhammer

The Democrats have gone too far.

I believe that P.G. has supported Trump until recently.

Besides, you could get some general information about such themes if you read articles like the following:

There's No Evidence Iran Is Responsible for the Deaths of Hundreds of Americans
by Stephen Zunes

https://progressive.org/dispatches/-no-evidence-iran-is-responsible-for-the-deaths-of-hundreds-of-americans-zunes-200107/

How the President Became a Drone Operator
by Allegra Harpootlian

https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/01/16/how-the-president-became-a-drone-operator/

lavoisier , says: Website Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 12:32 pm GMT
@bobhammer Stop drinking the Kool-Aid. Turn off Fox News now.

We are not always the good guys and we are up to our necks in deceit, plunder, and evil. Our actions have harmed millions of people around the world and it has to stop.

It is time for more self-reflection as individuals and as a nation; and it is long past time for us to be comfortable with lies.

Anonymous [401] Disclaimer , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 2:22 pm GMT
@bobhammer The "uninterruptible" autopilot can be activated – either by pilots or by on-board sensors, or by radio or satellite link<= connected to controls at the remote end. Government agencies, quasi government agencies, military brats and probably the entire group of privately operated NGOs and private party mobsters (bankers, corporations and private military armies and privateers) at the remote end, can take over control of in-flight Aircraft, and fly it, land it, take it off, whatever, even if the pilot sitting in the cockpit objects. and does all he can to retrieve control from the remote operator.

Several comments report says interrupt able remote control, allows, persons on the ground, to take from the pilot in a flying airplane, control of the airplane the pilot is suppose to be flying, in situations for example when terrorist are in the cockpit. I have not read the manufacture's literature nor do I have personal knowledge abut the equipment list of any of these aircraft, the list suggest they are all aircraft, not only equipped with the UAP but that they were all aircraft made by the same manufacturer. I am merely repeating what was on stated as fact on a website I visited.

Many are looking for proof that remotely equipped uninterruptible autopilots are being used as Remote Control weaponized drones . Imagine an pilot, located on the ground in London or somewhere parks his /her remote ground to air control vehicle and takes over flight control including turns on/off the transponder [<=which tells everyone where the plane is during its flight] on a plane that is flying, landing or taking off from say the Tehran airport in Iran?

My personal experience is that it generally takes less than 2 minutes after a transponder is turned off during a planes flight, before fighter jets arrive to escort the transponder disabled plane; so the whole system that protects civilian aircraft, and allows the military to know the aircraft is civilian, is dependent on the Transponder, installed in the airplane, to continuously squawk during flight, its exact position so that everyone can identify the flight, and track the aircraft during its flight. Every land based control tower, ATC control system center and military installation depends on that airborne squawking transponder to track the en-route progress of commercial and private aircraft flights from take off to landing.

Another comment made on that list referred to above claimed Uninterruptible Auto Pilot [UAP] equipped aircraft have been involved in unexplained flight accident/disappearance events (I have no personal knowledge about the equipment in these aircraft, I just repeated here what someone else said elsewhere, please verify these claims yourself or provide verification ) .

(4 @911) <=UAP allows pilot-less flights, no pilot need board the plane for its flight.
(PS752) (transponder turned off, destroyed by confused ground defense crews)
MH370 (vanished into thin air)
MH17 (had its flight path altered.)
Eyes focus on Uninterruptible Auto Pilot (UAP) .. to explain recent Tehran 160 person disaster?

This is really something to think about? Always the question has been how did four military officers from Iran, trained a few weeks in Florida to fly jets, manage to get through four differently located pilot screening TSA gates to fly the aircraft and passenger into the 9/11 events. Conspiracy theories suggest since no pilot is needed, there were no pilots for TSA to screening. Remote control on the ground flew the aircraft to their destinations.

Trinity , says: Show Comment January 16, 2020 at 2:51 pm GMT
"By way of deception thou shalt do war."

Just about says it all doesn't it? What kind of people are we dealing with here? Of course only the morons out there are still being fooled by these kind of false flags. Even in the year 2020 these same morons still believe ZOG's 9-11 fairy tale and label any other theory as a "conspiracy." Speaking of conspiracies the biggest idiots out there, even bigger than the ones who believe ZOG's narrative or those type who believe the total wacktard stuff put out by ZIO controlled disinfo puppets like Alex Jones.

Ukrainian commercial airline? What other nation besides Iran does ZOG have it in for? Is it Russia?

War by deception? HARDLY to anyone with two brain cells left. These fools have been caught before, they aren't that clever. What they are is protected by a syndicate of bought and paid for politicians. They were caught attacking the USS Liberty, they were caught bombing American and British installations in Egypt, the Rosenbergs and Pollard were nailed, but of course despite all of this, America and her leaders continued the value Israel as a friend and an ally. With a friend like Israel, who needs enemies. Then of course we have the story of our 5 little dancing Israelis apprehended in NYC after being observed dancing and celebrating the WTC towers collapsing. So you mean a group of Israelis from Israel, nation that is ALLEGEDLY "friends" with America and America think it is hilarious and worth celebrating when America is attacked and thousands are burned alive or jump to their death from hundreds of feet above the street?? Of course "our" media quickly exonerated the celebrating Israelis and buried that story faster than your average house cat buries his own turds.

ZOG really thinks the average American has the IQ of a monkey. Even after the WMD caca they still think you people will believe anything they tell you to believe. The sad part is they are right about that with the majority of the population.

[Jan 12, 2020] Box Score on airliner shoot down deaths: Iranians -176, USS Vincennes - 290

Jan 12, 2020 | turcopolier.typepad.com

Vincennes

(USS Vincennes)

OK pilgrims, we are told today that there are mobs in the streets of Tehran protesting the shoot down of the Ukrainian airliner. 176 were killed. We are carefully not told (thus far) how many Iranians are mobbed up in the streets but the implication spread by the Foxnews clown car is that the "Maximum Pressure" sanctions and propaganda campaign run by Israel and the US is about to cause the fall of the Islamic Republic of Iran. OK We will see.

Long ago during the Iran-Iraq War an Americans frigate USS Stark was attacked in the Gulf by an Iraqi F-! Mirage. The ship was hit by two French built Exocet missiles. I was a member of the JCS investigating board that traveled to Bahrein and Baghdad for the inquiry. The damage to the ship was frightful and many American sailors had been killed and wounded. The JCS decided that a chain of unfortunate and mistaken events had led to the incident but the US Navy conducted its own investigation and destroyed the careers of the captain of USS Stark and all his officers. The navy is very unforgiving of damage to its boats. Unless you have the vessel shot out from under you by enemy action you might as well go down with the ship

Later in the course of that war the anti-aircraft guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes was in the Gulf and it shot down an Iranian airliner killing 290 people on board. The Iranians were and probably still are convinced that Vincennes shot down the airliner as a result of the inherently evil and malevolent nature of the US.

In fact what happened was that the captain of Vincennes was afraid of suffering the same fate as the captain of the Stark who had been accused of not being quick enough to engage the Iraqi fighter bomber.

Well, folks, STUFF HAPPENS and the human link in a chain of events is always the most important link.

IMO Iranian air defenses accidentally shot down the Ukrainian airliner. Stuff Happens, especially in war. PL

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Vincennes_(CG-49)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Stark_incident

Posted at 10:11 AM in History , Iran | Permalink

Reblog (0)

[Jan 12, 2020] When the bullets start flying and the bombs start dropping, terrible things can happen that no one has planned for. This is one of the great tragedies of war. Unintended consequences and so-called "collateral damage."

Jan 12, 2020 | www.moonofalabama.org

Mao , Jan 12 2020 8:46 utc | 389

Tulsi Gabbard:

When the bullets start flying and the bombs start dropping, terrible things can happen that no one has planned for. This is one of the great tragedies of war. Unintended consequences and so-called "collateral damage."

[VIDEO]

https://twitter.com/TulsiGabbard/status/1216173675998633984

[Jan 12, 2020] Iran's accidental downing of a Ukrainian plane is already being used to smear MH-17 skeptics by Max Parry

Notable quotes:
"... What no one is mentioning is: the US airstrikes on Iraqi military bases, and Soleimani's murder contributed greatly to the hair trigger response of Iran's air defense forces. If Washington did not turn the heat up on both Iraq and Iran there would have been no need for Iran's retaliation, and thus the level of Iran's domestic defense forces would not have been so nervous as to pull the trigger downing the airliner. ..."
"... Former CIA high-ranking official accidentally reveals the type of the false flag operation that the US imperialists will orchestrate to start a war with Iran https://failedevolution.blogspot.com/2020/01/former-cia-high-ranking-official.html ..."
"... It reminds me too much of MH-17, which was not hit with a BUK but with bullets. Iran should have closed its airspace because such tricks are to be expected, irrespective of the cause of the current accident. ..."
Jan 11, 2020 | www.unz.com

When the Pentagon confirmed the assassination of Iranian Major General Qasem Soleimani, U.S. President Donald Trump took to social media to post a single image of the American flag to the adulation of his followers. Unfortunately, most Americans are ignorant of the other flag synonymous with U.S. foreign policy, that of the 'false flag' utilized to deceive the public and stir up support for endless war abroad. While the chicken hawk defenders of Trump's reckless decision to murder one of the biggest contributors in the defeat of ISIS salivated over possible war with Iran, their appetite was spoiled by Tehran's retaliatory precision strikes of two U.S. bases in Iraq that deliberately avoided casualties while in accordance with the Islamic Republic's right to self defense under Article 51 of the United Nations charter. The reprisal successfully deescalated the crisis but sent a clear message Iran was willing to stand up to the U.S. with the backing of Russia and China, while Washington underestimated Tehran which forewarned the Iraqi government of its impending counterattack so U.S. personnel could evacuate.

In the hours following the ballistic missile strikes, reports came in that a Boeing 737 international passenger flight scheduled from Tehran to Kiev, Ukraine had crashed shortly after takeoff from Imam Khomeini International Airport, killing all 176 passengers and flight crew on board. Initial video of the crash of Ukrainian International Airlines Flight 752 (PS752) showed that the aircraft was already in flames while descending to the ground, leading to speculation it was shot down amid the heightened political crisis between Iran and Washington. In the days following, a second obscure video surfaced which only increased this suspicion. Meanwhile, Western governments quickly concluded that an anti-aircraft surface-to-air missile brought PS752 down and were eager to point the finger at Iran before any formal investigation. Many people, including this author, were admittedly skeptical as to how a plane taking off from Tehran could have been mistaken five hours after the strikes in Iraq.

Nevertheless, those with reservations turned out to be wrong when days later the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) came clean that its aerospace forces made a "human error" and accidentally shot the passenger plane down after mistaking it for a incoming cruise missile when it flew close to a military base during a heightened state of alert in anticipation of U.S. attack. Many have noted that Iran's honorable decision to take responsibility for the catastrophe is in sharp contrast with Washington's response in 1988 when the U.S. Navy shot down Iran Air Flight 655 scheduled from Tehran to Dubai over the Strait of Hormuz in the Persian Gulf, killing all 290 occupants, after failing to cover it up. Just a month later, Vice President George H.W. Bush would notoriously state he would " never apologize for the United States of America. Ever. I don't care what the facts are ." Although he was not directly referring to the incident, one can only imagine what the reaction would be if Iranian President Hassan Rouhani were to say the same weeks after shooting down the Ukrainian plane, let alone an American one. Predictably, Tehran's transparency has gone mostly unappreciated while the Trump administration is already trying to use the disaster to further demonize Iran.

Oddly enough, Ukrainian International Airlines is partly owned by the infamous Ukrainian-Israeli oligarch, politician and energy tycoon Igor Kolomoisky, who was notably one of the biggest financiers of the anti-Russian, pro-EU coup d'etat which overthrew the democratically elected government of Viktor Yanukovych in 2014. Kolomoisky is also a principal backer of current Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky whose dubious phone call with Trump resulted in the 45th U.S. president's impeachment last month. In another astounding coincidence, Kolomoisky's Privat Group is believed to control Burisma Holdings, the Cypress-based company whose executive board 2020 presidential candidate Joe Biden's son Hunter was appointed to following the Maidan junta. The former Vice President admitted that he bribed Ukraine into firing its top prosecutor who was looking into his son's corruption by threatening to withhold $1 billion in loan guarantees.

Kolomoisky, AKA "the Chameleon", is one of the wealthiest people in the ex-Soviet country and was formerly appointed as governor of an administrative region bordering Donbass in eastern Ukraine following the 2014 putsch. He has also funded a battalion of volunteer neo-Nazi mercenaries fighting alongside the Ukrainian army in the War in Donbass against Russian-speaking separatists which the military aid temporarily withheld by the Trump administration that was disputably contingent upon an investigation of Biden and his son goes to. In 2014, another infamous plane shootdown made international headlines when Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 (MH17) scheduled from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur was shot down over the breakaway Donetsk People's Republic (DPR) in eastern Ukraine, killing all 298 passengers and crew.

From the get-go, the Obama administration was adamant that the missile which shot down the Boeing 777 came from separatist rebel territory. However, Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir bin Mohamad denounced the charges brought against the Russian and Ukrainian nationals indicted in the NATO-led investigation, dismissing the entire probe as a politically motivated effort predetermined to scapegoat Moscow and exclude Malaysian participation in the inquiry from the very beginning. Mohamad is featured in the excellent documentary MH17: Call for Justice made by a team of independent journalists which contests the NATO-scripted narrative and reveals that the Buk missile was more likely launched from Ukrainian Army-controlled territory than the DPR. One of Kolomoisky's hired guns could also have been responsible.

Shamefully, Iran's admission of guilt in the PS752 downing is already being used by establishment propagandists to discredit skeptics and conflated with similar contested past events like MH17 in order to intimidate dissenting voices from speaking up in the future. The Bellingcat 'investigative journalism' collective which made its name incriminating Moscow for the MH17 tragedy are the principle offenders. Bellingcat bills itself as an 'independent' citizen journalism group even though its founder Eliot Higgins is employed by the Atlantic Council think tank which receives funding from NATO, the U.S. State Department, the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), George Soros' Open Society Foundation NGO, and numerous other regime change factories. Despite its enormous conflict of interest, Bellingcat remains highly cited by corporate media as a supposedly reputable source. At the outset, nearly everything about the PS752 tragedy gave one déjà vu of the MH17 disaster, including the rush to judgement by Western governments, so it was only natural for many to distrust the official narrative until more facts came out.

None of this changes that the use of commercial passenger jets as false flag targets for U.S. national security subterfuge is a verifiable historical fact, not a 'conspiracy theory.' In 1997, the U.S. National Archives declassified a 1962 memo proposed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Department of Defense for then-Secretary of State Robert McNamara entitled " Justification for U.S. Military Intervention in Cuba ." The document outlined a series of 'false flag' terrorist attacks, codenamed Operation Northwoods, to be carried out on a range of targets and blamed on the Cuban government to give grounds for an invasion of Havana in order to depose Fidel Castro. These scenarios included targets within the U.S., in particular Miami, Florida, which had become a haven of right-wing émigrés and defectors following the Cuban Revolution. In addition to the sinking of a Cuban refugee boat, one Northwoods plan included the staging of attacks on a civilian jet airliner and a U.S. Air Force plane to be pinned on Castro's government:

"8. It is possible to create and incident which will demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civil airliner enroute from the United States to Jamaica, Guatemala, Panama or Venezuela. The destination would be chosen only to cause the flight plan route to cross Cuba. The passengers could be a group of college students off on a holiday or any grouping of persons with a common interest to support chartering a non-scheduled flight.

9. It is possible to create an incident which will make it appear that Communist Cuban MIGs have destroyed a USAF aircraft over international waters in an unprovoked attack."

Although Operation Northwoods was rejected by then-U.S. President John F. Kennedy which many believe was a factor in his subsequent assassination, Cuban exiles with the support of U.S. intelligence would later be implicated in such an attack the following decade with the bombing of Cubana Airlines Flight 455 in 1976 which killed all 73 passengers and crew on board. In 2005, documents released by the National Security Archive showed that the CIA under then-director George H.W. Bush had advanced knowledge of the plans of a Dominican Republic-based Cuban exile terrorist organization, the Coordination of United Revolutionary Organizations (CORU), at the direction of former CIA operative Luis Posada Carriles to blow up the airliner. The U.S. later refused to extradite Carriles to Cuba to face charges and although he never admitted to masterminding the bombing of the jet, he publicly confessed to other attacks on tourist hotels in Cuba during the 1990s and was later arrested in 2000 for attempting to blow up an auditorium in Panama trying to assassinate Castro.

In 1962, the planners of Operation Northwoods concluded that such deceptive operations would shift U.S. public opinion unanimously against Cuba.

"World opinion and the United Nations forum should be favorably affected by developing the international image of Cuban government as rash and irresponsible, and as an alarming and unpredictable threat to the peace of the Western Hemisphere."

The same talking points are used by the U.S. government to demonize Iran today. Initially, some Western intelligence sources also concluded that it was a malfunction or overheated engine that brought PS752 down in corroboration with the Iranian government's original explanation until the narrative abruptly shifted the following day. That they were so quick to hold Iran accountable without any investigation gave the apparent likelihood that PS752 could have fallen prey to a Northwoods-style false flag operation designed to further isolate Iran and defame its leaders after they took precautions to avoid U.S. casualties in their retaliatory strikes for the killing of Soleimani. Maintaining the image of Iran as a nefarious regime is crucial in justifying hawkish U.S. policies toward the country and Iran's noted restraint in its retaliation put a dent in that impression, so many were suspicious and rightly so.

It was also entirely plausible that U.S. special operations planners could have consulted the Northwoods playbook replacing Cuba with Iran and the right-wing gusanos who were to assist the staged attacks in Miami with the Iranian opposition group known as Mujahedin e-Khalq (MEK/People's Mujahedin of Iran) to do the same in Tehran. In July of last year, Trump's personal lawyer and former New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani gave a paid speech at the cult-like group's compound in Albania where he not only referred to the group as Iran's "government-in-exile" but stated the U.S's explicit intentions to use them for regime change in Iran. The MEK enjoys high level contacts in the Trump administration and the group was elated at his decision to murder Soleimani in Baghdad.

From 1997 until 2012, the MEK was on the State Department's list of terrorist organizations until it was removed by the Obama administration after its expulsion from Iraq in order to relocate the group to fortified bases in Albania and the NATO protectorate of Kosovo. The latter disputed territory is a perfect fit for the rebranded group having been founded by another deregistered foreign terrorist organization, the al-Qaeda linked Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), whose leader, Hashim Thaçi, presides over the partially-recognized state. The MEK are no longer designated as such despite the State Department's own account of its bloody history:

"During the 1970s, the MEK staged terrorist attacks inside Iran to destabilize and embarrass the Shah's regime; the group killed several US military personnel and civilians working on defense projects in Tehran. The group also supported the takeover in 1979 of the US Embassy in Tehran. In April 1992 the MEK carried out attacks on Iranian embassies in 13 different countries, demonstrating the group's ability to mount large-scale operations overseas."

Declassified documents revealing the sinister plans in Operation Northwoods which shockingly made it all the way to the desk of the president of the United States and the foreknowledge of Cubana Airlines Flight 455 are just two examples of solid proof that false flag attacks against civilian passenger planes are a part of the Pentagon's modus operandi as disclosed in its own archives and there is no reason to believe that such practices have been discontinued. That the U.S. is still cozy with "former" terror groups like MEK seeking to repatriate is good reason to believe its use of militant exiles for covert operations like those from Havana has not been retired. If there were jumps to conclusions that proven serial liars could be looking for an excuse to stage an attack to lay the blame on Iran, it is only because the distinct probability was overwhelming. Even so, a stopped clock strikes the right time twice per day and that is all Iran's acknowledgment of its liability proves -- that even the world's most unreliable and criminal sources in Washington and Langley can be accurate sometimes


the grand wazoo , says: Show Comment January 12, 2020 at 2:34 am GMT

What no one is mentioning is: the US airstrikes on Iraqi military bases, and Soleimani's murder contributed greatly to the hair trigger response of Iran's air defense forces. If Washington did not turn the heat up on both Iraq and Iran there would have been no need for Iran's retaliation, and thus the level of Iran's domestic defense forces would not have been so nervous as to pull the trigger downing the airliner.
But, if's a huge word.
Flint Clint , says: Show Comment January 12, 2020 at 5:41 am GMT
I disagree.

https://m.jpost.com/Defense/WikiLeaks-Russia-gave-Israel-Iranian-codes

Israel has had control of Iran's Russian middle systems for years. Russia gave them the codes.

I think Israel blew up the aircraft. I can't find a link but I heard a huge number of Soleimani loyalists were arrested in Iran. Someone should have a link to that from Twitter or somewhere.

I think that there was some kind of collaboration between Khamenei, Israel and the US to remove Soleimani who had designs on a coup.

I don't know if this is a good or bad thing.

I also don't know who was on that plane. So it's unclear if it was good or bad it was destroyed. Who knows who those 176 dual Iranian Nationals were.

I just know that if Israel had control of those missile units and it would embarrass Iran for that to be revealed it makes sense for Iran to claim the lesser of two deep shames.

Particularly if there has been some kind of tacit acceptance of a status as a vassal state to either the US or Israel behind the scenes to preserve the regime.

Perhaps the MEK or a different vassal ruler who is really crypto Jewish will be appointed in Solemeinis place, and Iran will hence offer a symbolic enemy to justify the continuation of the military industrial complex in both Israel and the US.

Just one feasible theory.

Ilya G Poimandres , says: Show Comment January 12, 2020 at 6:46 am GMT
Even a blind squirrel, even a broken clock twice a day.. The Empire's statements and blind accusations could have been for any tragedy in a country they were psyopsing, only a matter of chance for them to be right at some time. In any case, it wasn't intentional on Iran's part.
nmb , says: Show Comment January 12, 2020 at 7:27 am GMT
Former CIA high-ranking official accidentally reveals the type of the false flag operation that the US imperialists will orchestrate to start a war with Iran
https://failedevolution.blogspot.com/2020/01/former-cia-high-ranking-official.html
Lol just lol , says: Show Comment January 12, 2020 at 8:09 am GMT
"Accidental" lol

Only if accidental means a joint Russian/Iranian hit on a Ukrainian plane carrying fleeing cia/mossad agents.

This whole situation has once again displayed how easy it is for the zio-media to control what we see and hear and believe. Disturbingly, that means that things like metoo and "believe all women" are operations too.

We are f*cked no matter what.

Crazy Horse , says: Website Show Comment January 12, 2020 at 8:56 am GMT
@the grand wazoo I wouldn't be surprised it the FDR shows that the plane strayed off its registered Flightpath and was involved in a covert recon mission that went bad.
Antares , says: Show Comment January 12, 2020 at 9:15 am GMT
It reminds me too much of MH-17, which was not hit with a BUK but with bullets. Iran should have closed its airspace because such tricks are to be expected, irrespective of the cause of the current accident. There is no immediate reason for Iranians to fly to Ukraine, or anywhere else. It may sound silly but flying is still a special and dangerous thing and should not be taken for granted.

For someone who doesn't watch television or read Iranian newspapers it was only reported on Twitter and then repeated by PressTV and others on internet. Which parts of the story are real?

Alfred , says: Show Comment January 12, 2020 at 9:30 am GMT
Of course, it was a huge and most regrettable mistake. Doubtless, the Iranians will compensate the victims for what that is worth. Most of the passengers were Iranians. I suspect that many of the "Canadians" Trudeau is on about are of Iranian descent. They would certainly be considered to be Iranians in Iran.

The series of coincidences highlighted in this article are remarkable. It has synchronicity splashed all over it.

I worked at Tehran airport for some years prior to the Revolution. After the Revolution, I volunteered to return on behalf of Raytheon (of all companies) to get some money owing. No one else was prepared to go there. Iran Air personnel were delighted to meet me again and they promptly paid the bill. I took a holiday to the Caspian with my ex-girlfriend.

A further piece of synchronicity is that I am currently visiting Kiev. The world is a truly incestuous place.

... ... ...

Wizard of Oz , says: Show Comment January 12, 2020 at 10:15 am GMT
@the grand wazoo "What no one is mentioning ."??? Really? That's almost exactly what some Iranian spokesmen have been saying.
Wizard of Oz , says: Show Comment January 12, 2020 at 10:29 am GMT
Set aside the beatup of two operations that neither the CIA or any American agency carried out the author has apparently failed to see the obvious. That is that the Iranians had no possibility of covering up the missile strike. Or did he imagine that everyone who might tell the truth could be kept permanently separated from plane parts and bodies which would have shown unmistakeable and undeniable evidences of the strike.

[Jan 12, 2020] Boeing Uninterruptible Auto Pilot

Jan 12, 2020 | www.moonofalabama.org

Norwegian , Jan 11 2020 19:33 utc | 245

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 11 2020 18:56 utc | 232
Speculation. US cyber or EW warfare cut the coms and Boeing or more likely US operatives cut one engine via the datalink to Boeing.

Following this line of speculation, it is hard to not consider the BUAP - Boeing Uninterruptible Auto Pilot: Boeing wins patent on uninterruptible autopilot system
Boeing's is, of course, not the first autopilot technology in existence, but this one has been designed with counterterrorism first and foremost in mind. Not only is it "uninterruptible" -- so that even a tortured pilot cannot turn it off -- but it can be activated remotely via radio or satellite by government agencies.

[Jan 12, 2020] It's clear that when we ask the question "Who benefits greatly from this event", we are forced to say the US

Jan 12, 2020 | smoothiex12.blogspot.com

[Jan 12, 2020] Blunders are inherent to military operations in wartime, peacetime often enough too, But why Iran did not close its airspace remains a puzzle. Did Iranians walked into a trap?

Jan 12, 2020 | www.moonofalabama.org

Daniel N. White , Jan 12 2020 3:37 utc | 365

Yeah, an airliner shootdown because the (tired, stressed, undertrained) SAM operators fucked up. Fuckups are inherent to military operations in wartime, peacetime often enough too, and the time of this accident was both combined, and that certainly made it likelier to happen, too, dammit.

I am pleased to see Iran assume responsibility, promptly enough I reckon, for the shootdown. I trust it will be writing suitable sized checks to the heirs, and one to the Ukrainian airline too. About all that can be done; something that needs doing for everyone's sake.

Iran's assuming responsibility for its shootdown of a civilian airliner by accident contrasts to ours'.* The USA still is dodging its responsibility for the 1980 Itavia DC-9 shootdown. Most nobody in the USA knows about that incident, but I am told it remains an ongoing sore/issue in Italy/Italian politics. My piece from years ago is here: https://www.counterpunch.org/2006/12/21/jimmy-carter-in-austin/ . Since writing this, I wrote Mr. Carter via the Carter Library and via his church in Plains, GA, but never heard back. Unpleasant conclusions about Mr. Carter's integrity must be drawn from this. And similar conclusions about the USA's, and its people's.

My condolences to the families.

Daniel N. White

*Yeah, and the French Navy and nation, too. Apparently back in '68 the French Navy inadvertently shot down an Air France Caravelle over the Med. Immediate hiding of information and physical evidence started and continues to this day. [Did you think I'd pass up this opportunity to kick the French?]


Jackrabbit , Jan 12 2020 4:21 utc | 369

IRGC Commander uses a graphic to show where PS732 was struck by a missile.

FlightRadar24.com shows PS732's flight path - presumably using all data to the point where the data was interrupted by some event on board.

When I compare these, it appears that the IRGC estimate of where the missile hit is WELL AFTER transmission of flight data has ended.

Also, logically, a plane climbing a short distance from an airport should not resemble a drone. Might an operator assume a drone if the plane were DESCENDING?

Thus, there's the possibility of a scenario where a bomb under the cockpit causes the plane to start descending and the IRGC fire a missile as a because the plane's descent causes the operator to surmise that it is a drone instead of a plane.

Might there have been a bomb AND missile hit?

Note: This possibility arises only because of what seems to be a mismatch in the data from the airplane and the IRGC's estimate of where the plane was hit. Perhaps IRGC's graphic is incorrect?

<> <> <> <> <> <>

Aside: AFAICT the plane wasn't turning back to the airport ! It was on a normal flight path which turned slightly but that turning was apparently exacerbated after the plane was hit. That increased turning made it SEEM like it was turning back to the airport.

!!

Fog of War , Jan 12 2020 5:08 utc | 375
Many of you still seemed perplexed as to why Iran allowed commercial flights to go on during such a potentially tense time. Let me make it clear for everyone, they were tricked by the ZioAmericans. Basically, the Iranians were allowed to get their " face saving attack " on the Americans while thinking this would be the end of the whole episode. Little did they suspect that the US had prepared the Ukrainian plane scenario followed by instantaneous protests. The Iranians walked into a trap.


- Swiss Back Channel Helped Defuse U.S.-Iran Crisis -
The U.S. sent an encrypted fax via the Swiss Embassy in Tehran urging Iran not to escalate, followed by a flurry of back and forth messages -

https://www.wsj.com/articles/swiss-back-channel-helped-defuse-u-s-iran-crisis-11578702290

CognitiveDissonance , Jan 12 2020 5:13 utc | 377
@Vasco da Gama
Regarding the FAA NOTAMS restricting airspace a list is provided here. It is not accurate to claim only Tehran was restricted:

Exactly. And if the Ukraine Civil Aviation Authority had followed the FAA lead and grounded its aircraft in Iran , the Ukraine Air aircraft would not have gotten shot down .

The Ukraine Civil Aviation Authority didn't exactly perform well either.

Jackrabbit , Jan 12 2020 5:21 utc | 378
Fog of War @374: The Iranians walked into a trap.

That seems very possible. And, if so, the people on PS732 were sacrificed for the ambitions of AZ Empire asshats.

!!

CognitiveDissonance , Jan 12 2020 5:25 utc | 379
@Fog Of War
Many of you still seemed perplexed as to why Iran allowed commercial flights to go on during such a potentially tense time. Let me make it clear for everyone, they were tricked by the ZioAmericans.

A more plausible reason is here . The relevant except follows:

"The first thing a country should do in case of escalation of the military conflict is to close the sky for civilian flights," said retired Ukrainian Gen. Ihor Romanenko, a military analyst. " But this entails serious financial losses , fines and forfeits, therefore a cynical approach prevailed in Iran."

CognitiveDissonance , Jan 12 2020 5:25 utc | 379 Peter AU1 , Jan 12 2020 5:52 utc | 380
Jackrabbit 368 "Aside: AFAICT the plane wasn't turning back to the airport! It was on a normal flight path which turned slightly but that turning was apparently exacerbated after the plane was hit. That increased turning made it SEEM like it was turning back to the airport."

From the Ukraine description of the damage, the pilots would be unlikely to have any control over the plane even if they were not dead or incapacitated. From my understanding the aircraft was on its way back to the airport when it crashed.
Iran government was intitaly very sure the aircraft came down due to a tehnical problem which makes me think the pilots radioed in that they had a problem before they were hit. This is why I think the plane was hit after the turn back to the airport.
if they turn back to the the airport brought the plane to where it was facing the military site during the turn this may have caused the airdefence crew to fire. Already on high alert, their coms down and perhaps the planes transponder stops transmitting whould be more than enough suspition to down the aircraft.
A preplanned operation that cut air defence coms and disabled the aircraft (as in cut one engine plus transponder) at the same time.

Peter AU1 , Jan 12 2020 6:03 utc | 381
In b's previous piece on the aircraft, b had this to say "The airplane climbed out of Tehran airport in a rather straight line. The teams that man the Tor systems around Tehran must be used to the regular radar track of civil planes coming out of Tehran airport. That makes an accidental launch somewhat unlikely."

This is still very relevent. Something about that flight was different causing the Tor crew to fire. A sudden turn back to the airport along with trasponder transmissions stopping and air defence comms down would cause this.

Australian lady , Jan 12 2020 7:23 utc | 382
The Iranian apologia is a masterclass in grace..
Unfortunately the courage to admit responsibility is not understood as a civilised response, but that is what one expects from barbarians.
Iran has admitted that it shot down the plane. Perhaps that was the intention of this tragedy.
Do you remember how it was in Tehran in the election year of 2008?
Luce Ducet of the BBC was on the streets spruiking for the Iranian "colour revolution". But Amadenijad won regardless.
They are trying it again but it won't work. Never does.
However there will be chaos and that has proven to be tremendously profitable.
Krollchem , Jan 12 2020 7:26 utc | 383
DontBelieveEitherPr.@214 ( and other recent trolls)

Please do us a favor by helping with the following issues:

(1) list all countries invaded by the US compared to Iran. Each instance of an invasion of a given country is required as some countries were invaded several times;

(2) In the last 200 years list all countries overthrown by a coup by the US and its proxy's compared to Iran;

After failing in this simple task go back commenting somewhere else...

Steve M , Jan 12 2020 7:47 utc | 384
There are still a couple of things that bother me about this.

1.) is that for those of you who are saying it would be hard to distinguish an incoming enemy plane from a commercial airliner such as Pometheus @ 178 who said:

6) A RADAR signature CANNOT distinguish a commercial airline aircraft from a military aircraft - especially since some military aircraft use 737 airframes.

would that also apply to a cruise missile? That is, would it also be difficult to distinguish between a commercial airliner and a cruise missile? Because, from what I've seen, that's the claim that's being made -- that the SAM operator responsible for launching the missile against the airliner was on high alert due to warnings of possible cruise missile launches against Iran and that he mistook the target for a cruise missile -- or at least suspected that it was -- which, according to the narrative, is why he only had a 10-second window within which to make the decision to launch and why when there were "communication problems" that prevented him from getting a hold of his superiors, he had to basically flip a coin -- and unfortunately made the wrong choice. Now, I don't know if this narrative is still current, because what I read did say this account was an "early assessment", but if it is, if it's still what they're saying -- is it plausible? is what I'm asking. Or would this represent a hole in their narrative? Maybe someone on here could clarify this for me? Possibly Prometheus?

The other thing that bugs me, is who took the footage of the plane actually being hit? How did he know to train his camera in that direction at that particular place and time? Is it somebody who just hangs around and films planes that happen to be passing by? Or is it some camera that is maybe in a fixed position, like a security camera, that just happened to pick this up? (and actually, I have to say, it doesn't look like security camera footage to me) Or what? Because it is conceivable that this could indicate foreknowledge... which, of course, would indicate a planned event as opposed to an accident. Maybe someone could shed light on this for me as well?

But because of my lingering doubts I have also entertained the possibility raised by paul @ 188 that the Iranians may be lying about this in order to prevent (what would be certain) further escalation. What better way to defuse the situation than by claiming it was all just an unfortunate accident? (I guess what I have in mind is that it could have conceivably been an MEK, CIA, Mossad operation timed to eclipse the Soleimani and al-Muhandis murder stories and also further their campaign of escalation against Iran.)

Of course, I'm not maintaining that it's the case, necessarily. But the possibility did cross my mind even before I came across paul @ 188's comment. And there are some obvious problems with this narrative as well... which I probably don't need to go into here. But whatever the case may be, I'd still like an answer to the misgivings I raised above... if someone could shed light on them, I'd appreciate it.

Norwegian , Jan 12 2020 7:51 utc | 385
Speculation: The cases with planes turned into weapons all seem to be Boeings and not Airbuses if I am not mistaken, 4 Boeings @ 911 plus this one (PS752). You could argue that MH370 (vanished) and MH17 (altered flight path) possibly also fall into this category, they were Boeing planes. So a guess is that the Boeing Uninterruptible Auto Pilot (BUAP) plays a role in some or all of these cases, and possibly other ones as well.

If BUAP was used to disable the PS752 pilots + all communication and then switch off one engine during full throttle take-off, what does that do to the flight path? Perhaps an interesting flight simulator exercise, but it would obviously turn. As others have pointed out, a civilian plane does not have IFF and will therefore be identified as hostile when it suddenly appears in front of a Tor-M1 battery because it was made to turn.

A detailed time-line would be useful, i.e. times for take-off, communication loss, when the plane started turning, missile launch, missile hit, final crash. It could possibly narrow the field of possibilities.

Vintage Red , Jan 12 2020 8:08 utc | 386
@somebody, 79

"I don't think it is beyond the US to have used the opportunity to test Iranian radars."

Remember the Soviet downing of Flight KAL 007 back in September '83. The fear of WW3 then was just as real as what we experienced last week. The US purposefully confused KAL 007's identity by flying RC-135 reconnaissance flights near it before its reaching Soviet airspace (both are Boeing, easy to mistake for each other). Some have mentioned that the pilot was Korean CIA. Either way the US got invaluable data on Soviet air defenses by its incursion near Vladivostok, and the USSR was attacked by the capitalist media afterward just as Iran is now.

Whether via hacking or sabotage of the plane, transponder or IFF (e.g., as Peter AU1 outlines @232) or something else entirely, this kind of action or outright weaponization of Ukrainian flight PS 752 is a possibility here as well.

ps -- massive thanks to bevin for very powerful comments @30 and @242.

imo , Jan 12 2020 8:38 utc | 388
@ Norwegian | Jan 12 2020 7:51 utc | 382

Indeed it is speculation but that sometimes has its place to help break up the mass-programming going on.

Remote drone control and flight by instruments are very close in technologies and one could easily imagine
the inbuilt functions and back-doors provided in modern aircraft -- especially Boeing variants for the obvious reasons.
Full-spectrum dominance (control when needed) has a meaning.

The IT technology for running total virtual computing systems were in commercial use in the 1970s.
[e.g. see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VM_(operating_system)]
Today's modern commercial aircraft are almost entirely software driven and therefore simply another virtual
machine. Flight simulators clearly operate on this principle.

I would suggest that MH370 night flight was more likely the class case study with a tribe of top Chinese technologists being
re-routed on a flight out of Malaysia to "Paradise Island" (Diego Garcia) before the plane was either ditched into the Indian
Ocean or re-cycled as a convenient relabeled option etc. In fact, from memory there were several interesting scenarios around
MH17 that included cadavers and other features. I'm not sure where these ended up in the wash.

The point being that unless there is something out the window in the real world to verify against (like position of sun etc)
then I'm sure for military purposes a large airliner could be totally enclosed in a virtual world simulation from the crew and
passenger perspective -- and quite possibly also satellite tracking for engine monitoring by suppliers.

Before MH370 and MH17 Malaysia was being rather difficult and independent (and critical of the Occupation of Palestine).
Apart from the geopolitical impacts, just the subsequent commercial impact on Malaysian Airlines brought a rather
sudden silence, compliance and silence from the Malaysian quarter. And here we are again, perhaps, simply a new cast of
actors as victims etc.

E Mo Scel , Jan 12 2020 9:11 utc | 391
It is correct that the FAA ban relates to the region and not just Tehran (FIR Tehran). I had checked that after my comment. It is still pointing to the fact that, as confirmed by statements by Iran, that there was a lot of movement in the airspace around Iran and possibly in Iran, and that civilian planes could be affected by misidentification - just the way it happened, but with almost 150 Iranians on board of the plane (some with dual citizenships). In my view, it is not feasible to assume the US did not respond to the Iranian strikes. The US hit hard and fast, just as Trump had said. The US outmaneuvered Iran from an angle they were not prepared for, right inside Iran, right in Tehran. The US come out of this clean. The lack of an overt response to the Iranian strikes can't be emphasized enough; same goes for the involvement of the CIA with Pompeo and Haspel.
uncle tungsten , Jan 12 2020 9:14 utc | 392
ADKC #342
Iran has been seduced by Trump and the illusory promise of symbolic actions/theatre. Iran has lost the phony war because it failed to see the US is not just a unwelcome visitor that will leave the Middle East when they are made to feel uncomfortable. The US cannot leave the Middle East because it would destroy itself if it did so.

I don't agree with your first proposition. I don't even think it is possible for Iran to have any illusions as to what they are up against militarily or the idiocy and malevolence of the USA. They are also aware of the near term chance to fracture the continuity of Trump as President and hope for a better or vaguely smarter person. If there is symbolism, then the Iranians made it clear 'this is a slap in the face'. That means an initial gesture of displeasure or challenge to a duel perhaps. It is not the revenge the Iranians have promised to extract from the occupying forces of the five eyes plus NATO plus Saudi sponsored ISIS. I anticipate there will soon be stage two of the vengeance extraction.

The USA will leave the Middle East either in tatters or with a smart withdrawal. The battlefield has just enlarged and entered new and murderous dimensions (thanks mainly to the assassination strategy of the USA) much as it did in Vietnam after the French were slaughtered at Dien Bien Phu. This will take some time to play out and there may be no victor but there will be a withdrawal of the USA.

You say the USA cannot withdraw due to its dependence on petrodollar cover of its currency. I say it has very little choice. The entire Shia and even perhaps some mighty angry Sunni are keen to kick the USA cadaver about the public square.

Osama Bin Laden was Sunni!! The forces of the USA are diustributed throughout the Sunni lands at their invitation ;- the USA occupies Sunni holy lands: this from NEO-

As of now, the US has 5,000 troops in the UAE; 7,000 in Bahrain; above 13,000 in Kuwait; 3,00o in Jordan; 3,000 in Saudi Arabia; 10,000 in Qatar; 5,000 in Iraq; around 1,000 in Syria -- all of course well within the range of Iranian missiles, making them an extremely attractive targets for the Iranian forces.

Only in Iraq, about 5,000 US troops could very well be sitting ducks if the Popular Mobilisation Forces were to launch a war of attrition. If history is any guide to future, it might be unrealistic to completely rule out a replay of the 1983 Beirut barracks bombings

The USA can huff and puff as much as it likes but I suspect they will be displeased and shaken shitless if a couple of the vessels docked in Bahrain only a few kilometers from Iran suddenly are sitting on the seabed.

What is revenge ADKC? What if the new leader of Oman is persuaded to end the invasion of Yemen? This could leave the USA badly shaken. There is no certainty that the long war of revenge will produce good results for Iran but any other course would be craven surrender to both the USA and its Sunni running dogs and the Israeli paper tiger.

John Doe , Jan 12 2020 9:20 utc | 393
The Prime Suspect in Ukrainian PS752 Shootdown: Israel's Unit 8200
https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/01/10/ps752/
Wtf , Jan 12 2020 9:23 utc | 394
How can you mistake a 737 for a cruise missile with and F band 3D doppler radar. The 737 has the signature of a friggin freight Train!
John Doe , Jan 12 2020 9:32 utc | 395
A shadowy tech firm with deep ties to Israeli intelligence and newly inked contracts to protect Pentagon computers is partnering with Lockheed Martin to gain unprecedented access to the heart of America's democracy.

https://www.mintpressnews.com/cybereason-israel-tech-firm-doomsday-election-simulations/263886/

Peter AU1 , Jan 12 2020 9:37 utc | 396
Wtf 391

https://www.militaryaerospace.com/computers/article/16726118/navy-continues-buying-radarspoofing-electronic-warfare-ew-equipment-from-mercury-systems
"Navy continues buying radar-spoofing electronic warfare (EW) equipment from Mercury Systems.
U.S. Navy airborne electronic warfare (EW) experts are continuing their support of radar-spoofing electronic warfare (EW)
technology from Mercury Systems Inc. that can fool enemy radar systems with false and deceptively moving targets."

At the time, Iran had many reports of incoming cruise missiles. By the sounds, US was hitting Iran with radar spoofing EW systems.

Peter AU1 , Jan 12 2020 10:02 utc | 399
Norwegian

There is the possibility of the uninterruptible auto pilot. It does exist but information on if
it is installed in many Boeing planes is vague. Others here have mentioned the number of incidents
Boeing aircraft have been involved in. I had thought of MH17 and MH370 but there is also 9 11 and
the Korean flight into soviet airspace. Many of the boeing aircraft are mechanical with hydraulic
assist controls so it would require something like the uninterruptible auto pilot to completely
take over the plane from the ground.
The Ukrainian NG has the mechanical controls, but its engines are computer controlled as are some other
functions in the aircraft plus I believe the aircraft has an automated data link back to boeing. This may
well have been sufficient for Boeing to turn of the Transponder and cut an engine so the plane would turn
towards the military site. This would be more than sufficient to ensure the downing of the aircraft under
the circumstances.
With an engine down the pilot would have immediately notified air traffic control and say he was turning back.
This would also explain why the Iranian government were initially certain the crash was due to technical issues.

somebody , Jan 12 2020 10:35 utc | 400
Posted by: E Mo Scel | Jan 12 2020 9:11 utc | 388

In my view, it is not feasible to assume the US did not respond to the Iranian strikes. The US hit hard and fast, just as Trump had said.

This is my sneaking suspicion. The way the news of this night were reported were 1. Iranian strike 2. Plane downed 3. 4.9 earthquake near Bushehr.

Epoch times - Falun Gong - even makes more of a connection

Israel wants the US to take out any Iranian nuclear programme. The escalation needed for such a hit was the only way to do that for Trump. Congress would never approve.

My guess is that Bushehr strikes failed to make an impression whatever they were intended to hit, so it is back to regime change.

Hausmeister , Jan 12 2020 10:45 utc | 402
If it could ever be proven that Boeing planes are being used as RC weaponized drones, the fallout would be epic.

Posted by: Sorghum | Jan 11 2020 23:18 utc | 312

No. It is enough to prove than one can switch off the transponder from a remote place. I have told in case you fly some aircraft over Germany and switch off the transponder it would take 2 minutes till you accompanied by a fighter jet.

Mao , Jan 12 2020 11:19 utc | 407
Boeing's "uninterruptible" autopilot "would be activated ... remotely via radio or satellite links by government agencies like the Central Intelligence Agency."

https://www.flightglobal.com/diagrams-boeing-patents-anti-terrorism-auto-land-system-for-hijacked-airliners/70886.article

https://21stcenturywire.com/2014/08/07/flight-control-boeings-uninterruptible-autopilot-system-drones-remote-hijacking/

Pft , Jan 12 2020 11:42 utc | 408
Not sure how long this lasts before someone messes it up with a mile long link. Why b does not delete comments that disrupt the formatting is a good question.

In any event Iran played right into the US -Israeli hands. They should not have responded. I said at the outset they would be smart not to. They simply should have followed protocol under international law (feeble and futile as it would be). They accomplished nothing with their missiles and showed weakness (30% missed or were duds) If they felt the need to retaliate it should have been a covert op that provided plausible deniability.

I'm still baffled at the airline shoot down. Radar should have shown that the Boeing 737 was on a commonly used flight path heading away from the airport -- if it was inbound into the country it would be easier to explain misidentification . The Boeing 737 should have been transmitting a transponder identification code. If the equipment that picks that up, called an IFF interrogator, was malfunctioning, battery operators would have considered the path and speed of the plane on radar. The Flight was rising toward 8,000 feet at a leisurely 275 knots when flight tracking data from its transponder cut out, a normal profile for an airliner. So it is departing the area, climbing through medium altitude, not trying to hide its signature, looking like a routine operation and its shot down?

I'd say if they shot this plane down they are a mess and that perhaps there are some disloyal elements within the military who might want change and seized the opportunity to make them look bad. Sanctions take a toll on moral and support of the people. Thats the intention. Maybe its working.

I am sure the US and Israel will be ready to jump in and help restore peace and help with reconstruction after the coming revolution. That wont be cheap so we (they) will have to get 50% of the oil/gas, and maybe a Trump Tower in Tehran (after he leaves office).

ADKC , Jan 12 2020 11:51 utc | 409
Uncle Tunsten @392

The Iranian "slap in The face" was effectively arranged with the US. What does that mean?

The assassination of Soliemani was not a stupid irrational act - it was a warning to Iran, Iraq and Iran that there will be no rapproachment. What does that mean for the likelihood of Oman taking a stand against US interests?

You dismiss the petrodollar as it if has no real bearing, but it is everything - without the petrodollar the US crumbles. And, what you also fail to realise is that the US cannot extract itself from the petrodollar therefore it US trapped and compelled to to do anything it can to defend the petrodollar.

irate , Jan 12 2020 11:59 utc | 410
The MEK is the group Trump wants to replace the Iran regime.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oIChqqSgzo

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Mujahedin_of_Iran

Peter AU1 , Jan 12 2020 12:05 utc | 411
Mao the uninterruptible auto pilot in the 21stcenturywire article is for fly by wire aircraft. Airbus are fly by wire as are some boeing models, but the 737s, apart from engine controls are not. 737 Max has fly by wire spoilers. On a fly by wire all that is required is to override or replace pilot input signals into the computer to take control of the flight controls.
The article speaks of embedded software being the uninterruptible auto pilot.
dave , Jan 12 2020 12:10 utc | 412
Nobody is asking questions why didn't Iran close down their airspace if they were expecting retaliation, perhaps because they needed a human shield in case Americans attacked? And they were expecting retaliation that is what the IRGC said.
pretzelattack , Jan 12 2020 12:11 utc | 413
i'm still not sure if some kind of hacking or cyberattack messed up the ability of iranian defense to respond to the plane. at any rate, the ultimate responsibility lies with the u.s. and israel who want regime change in iran and have tried to achieve that for decades.
dave , Jan 12 2020 12:14 utc | 414
@pretzelattack Iran also wanted regime change in the region through their export of the Islamic Revolution. Most likely Iranian defenses got hacked, their communications lines were down, but that does not excuse them for not closing the airspace (perhaps they needed a human shield in case Americans attacked).
dave , Jan 12 2020 12:23 utc | 415
People here writing stuff as if Iran and Russia are like ww2 allies. No they are not, even Putin said Russia is never going to allied herself with 1 country against another country in the middle east, that means Putin's Russia is seeking equilibrium in the middle east. It explains why Russia hesitated (after selling) to deliver the S-300 as agreed to Iran, while willing to sell S-400 to Iraq. That is because Russia wants the whole Middle East to be able to defend themselves against USA/Zionists and against each other -- that is equilibrium.
Peter AU1 , Jan 12 2020 12:29 utc | 416
dave
Iran's S-300s were delivered and deployed some time ago.
https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2016-11/news-briefs/russia-completes-s-300-delivery-iran

https://auroraintel.net/middle-east/iranian-s-300-locations

pretzelattack , Jan 12 2020 12:29 utc | 417
they could have just screwed up, too, dave. that happens in war. that doesn't put them on some kind of equal footing with the u.s. and israel. iran hasn't attacked any other countries that i know of, what have they done exactly to topple other governments anywhere?
dave , Jan 12 2020 12:30 utc | 418
@Peter The S-300 has been delivered after a long long long delay (years) after payment. Iran was very very upset and angry about this..
dave , Jan 12 2020 12:35 utc | 419
@pretzelattack On what planet have you been living? Iran has been trying to export their Islamic revolution throughout the region and elsewhere where there are muslims ever since 1979. Iran has a neo-con and a conservative faction. The neo-cons are radicals who are seeking worldwide Islamic Revolution, the conservatives want to keep their revolution within their own borders, it is like Stalin vs Trotsky, Stalin wanted communism in 1 country, Trotsky wanted world wide revolution.
Peter AU1 , Jan 12 2020 12:37 utc | 420
dave
You have just been spreading shit that it was never delivered. Upgraded S-300 systems were delivered to Iran as soon as UNSC nuclear related sanctions were lifted.
pretzelattack , Jan 12 2020 12:37 utc | 421
again, dave, do you have any specifics? what governments has iran tried to topple, and how?
dave , Jan 12 2020 12:40 utc | 422
@pretzelattack No they haven't screwed up, they (Iranian government) denied IRQGC's request to close down the airspace. Same thing as with Ukraine, Ukraine did not close down their airspace while they knew beforehand (as has been proven by news articles before the MH17 shootdown) there was a BUK in hands of rebels (if that news is true), the rebels were also actively shooting down military jets with manpads. Yet the Ukraine did not close down the airspace, they were using the airliners as human shield as has been proven by the fact their jets were shadowing the airliners.
dave , Jan 12 2020 12:41 utc | 423
correction IRQGC --> IRGC
Russ , Jan 12 2020 12:45 utc | 424
dave 414

"Iran also wanted regime change in the region through their export of the Islamic Revolution."

1. Which governments was Iran at odds with other than Western colonial stooges working for Western imperial goals? Which leads to:

2. Any attempted "export" by Iran has been clear-cut self defense against relentlessly aggressive Western exportation of imperial globalized capitalism. It's even more clear-cut one-way US/Western aggression than in the case of the Cold War. Iran's 20th century experiences with Western aggression in all forms is far more than enough to justify anything they have done in response, which in any event has been relatively very modest.

415

"People here writing stuff as if Iran and Russia are like ww2 allies."

They may not be natural "allies", but they've long had a shared enemy in Western imperialism in the Mideast. They still have that shared interest, which is becoming increasingly existential whether Putin or the Iranians want to admit that to themselves or not. I know this berserker US government. It ain't going home willingly. It's not going to go gentle into that goodnight.

pretzelattack , Jan 12 2020 12:47 utc | 425
dave, i didn't say anything about closing down the airspace, although that could be another screwup; i was talking about shooting down the plane. but since you bring it up, do you have any evidence they were using planes as human shields, or any evidence about how the airspace was not closed in the first place? still waiting on the questions of what governments iran has tried to overthrow and how.
Kadath , Jan 12 2020 12:50 utc | 426
This is infuriating i just receieved an emergency alert regarding the picker nuclear power plant telling me to watch local media yet cbc news still has no information what happend in pickering its still wall to wall coverage of ithe iran air crash disaster
dave , Jan 12 2020 12:50 utc | 427
@pretzelattack Though nothing compared to what the Americans have been doing, they were spreading their Islamic ideology throughout the region ever since the Islamic revolution of 1979, by exporting the concept of suicide bombings to the Palestinian areas (Hamas, Islamic Jihad), their involvement with Yemen where houthi are trying to overthrow their government, they have been involved in Bosnia. The middle east has seen a Islamic revival thanks to the Iranians and the Americans who needed an Islamic block against secular and socialist block of the 3rd world and 2nd world.
Laguerre , Jan 12 2020 12:55 utc | 428
dave 414

"Iran also wanted regime change in the region through their export of the Islamic Revolution."

There wasn't any export that I was aware of. And certainly not regime change. The only question was the Shi'a of Iraq, and Sistani rejected the Iranian model of vilayat-i faqih.

Peter AU1 , Jan 12 2020 12:57 utc | 429
Kadath

https://sputniknews.com/world/202001121078015363-incident-reported-at-canadas-pickering-nuclear-power-plant/
The alert, issued at 7:20 am Sunday, assured Ontarians that "there has been NO abnormal release of radioactivity from the station and emergency staff are responding to the situation."
The bulletin also indicated that people nearby "do not need to take protective actions at this time."

dave , Jan 12 2020 13:01 utc | 430
@pretzelattack not closing down airspace while IRGC has asked for it because of possible retaliation, that to me sounds like their politicians wanted victims at the hands of the Americans in front of the world (for propaganda purposes). That is the same as in Sarajevo where Bosnian Muslim government forces placed heavy weaponry in the middle of the heavily populated city targeting Serb villages/positions around the city. That is classic human shield against enemy retaliation, also good for propaganda purposes and world opinion in case the enemy retaliates and creates casualties among civilians. UNPROFOR commander got really angry at the Bosnian forces and demanded withdrawal of the heavy weaponry from the heavily populated area, the UNPROFOR commander even threatened to bomb Bosnian Muslim positions because of this provocation by the Bosnian Muslim government forces.
pretzelattack , Jan 12 2020 13:05 utc | 431
the yemenis are being slaughtered by the saudis, i don't see the iran aid as regime change. and the u.s. had a secular block against the socialist world in saddam till they threw him under the bus. i'm not sure who came up with the idea of suicide bombing, but i don't associate it specifically with iran. it's just another tactic, no more objectionable than pushing typing something on a keyboard half a world away and blowing somebody up by drone, and i don't see how it relates specifically to iran trying to overthrow other governments. i don't support iran's theocratic leanings, but my impression is that prior to the u.s. and u.k. deposing mossaddegh iran was more of an inward looking country.
Russ , Jan 12 2020 13:06 utc | 432
Posted by: dave | Jan 12 2020 12:50 utc | 427

"The middle east has seen a Islamic revival thanks to the Iranians and the Americans who needed an Islamic block against secular and socialist block of the 3rd world and 2nd world."

Yes indeed, the Arabs and the Mideast in general originally wanted to go the route of secular nationalism and only turned to a more religious-oriented movement when the West made nationalist progress impossible. Islamic radicalism wasn't their first choice. From what I've read it sounds like Sayyid Qutb originally had less of an audience than my obscure blog. But they came to realize it was their only effective option.

That, too, is 100% on the West. All fundamentalisms are modern movements of reaction against the aggression of other movements within modernity, most obviously Western cultural, economic, military imperialism.

Russ , Jan 12 2020 13:11 utc | 433
dave 430

The US drove the Yugoslav firestorm by unilaterally recognizing Bosnian independence while the UN was still trying to work out a negotiated settlement. The US egged them on by implying or promising military support. The Bosnians were more like pawns and at any rate certainly were not Iranian proxies acting in accord with what you allege with zero evidence to be Iran's aggressive Islamist plan for world domination.

imo , Jan 12 2020 13:12 utc | 434
@ Pft | Jan 12 2020 11:42 utc | 408

"I'm still baffled at the airline shoot down. Radar should have shown that the Boeing 737 was on a commonly used flight path heading away from the airport -- if it was inbound into the country it would be easier to explain misidentification."

Look, I'm not in any position to say what did (or did not) happen. And neither is anyone else outside a very small covert closed group -- and that probably includes the Iranians with their (allegedly) modern rocket technology and somewhat 19th century thinking and governance systems.

What I do assume is: any technology that the public finds on the magazine/website du jour is already out dated by at least one cycle and probably edging into the release for commercial market phase.

In a previous post I suggested that any virtual software computer system (of which modern jet airliners are mostly -- with a bit of flying hardware attached) can be, in theory, easily separated out into an onion-layered virtual operating system environment which, for all intents and purposes, provides 100% of the simulated environment data/parameters between the layers and applications. The cybernetic world has run on this in the business world since the late 20th century. I doubt the military are in catch-up mode -- quite the opposite, I'd assume.

How do you or I know that what the Iranian 'saw,' or more importantly, thought they saw in that 10 second 'engineered' gap?

One does not need to go full-spectrum Matrix or SkyNet thinking (just yet) to see where this is headed. But I raise an eyebrow at any narrow thinking precluding advanced AI scenarios that synthesis real-world and psychological-world vectors to exploit and manipulate the situation in focus towards desirable outcomes.

Knowing the Iranian character and worldview, and the religious top-down control culture and systems of command (and their weaknesses), allows for strategic modelling of scenarios that, if not directly controlled and created in the virtual 'digital' software world -- probably a few years off yet except in niche environments (hello major MIC supplier Boeing!) -- then at least in terms of statistical 'swarms' of data that nudge the real world towards higher probability preferred scenario. Whether Bayesian statistics is relevant or not, there are advanced options to experiment with.

This cluster-fuck by the Iranian military, set off by an equivalent of 21st century "Archduke Franz Ferdinand" event is like watching (unfortunately, imo, and only because I believe a balanced multi-polar world is a safer scenario) a Mexican peasant running after his hat just blow off his head by a gust of wind. Comical if not so bloody dangerous for the global geopolitical and economic context.

NK is another case altogether. They have enough nuke or no-nuke (as does Israel apparently) binary options to be treated with some junk-yard guard dog 'respect'. But the romantic poets and intellectuals of Tehran (with their 4,000 years of increasingly irrelevant cultural history) are just being played with like a wounded mouse by a cat.

I had written off the USA in accord with the public narrative until this event. Now I've sat back and looked at it again and the pattern looks entirely different. Trump or not, this has coordinated psyops dimensions flashing red all over, imo.

If what I have set out here as a possible (plausible?) scenario is even anywhere near a reality then Iran (Mullah version) is on the edge of collapse. The people will rise up for any number of reasons -- but one critical emerging one will be simply utter frustration with trying to live and work in the modern global world with a state-based ideology suited for the Crusades of the Middle Ages. Why not just uniform up in 'British Red Coats' with a red cross labeled "shoot here!" across the heart? [*]

The last item of interest towards this view is the almost hysterical reaction by the US to Russia's S300/S400/S500... technology expanding into broader markets. I'd suggest, apart from being high-class radar and missile technology, it is also likely resistant to the digital manipulation risk that 'sees' a Boeing lilting sideways (and mapping mentally) as a cruise missile within a critical window of weakness etc. Perhaps one can see behind the Oz wizard curtain better?

----
[*] - Since 9/11 it has been clear to some in the systems/cybernetics fields that an emerging 'chaos' orientated global governance model was coming into play. The use of the periodic 'shock' is the key. Think defibrillation as the metaphor to keep a certain heart-beat rhythm going while chaos (systemic fibrillation) reigns -- and is even promoted in some contexts. The book to read on the theory is "Chaos: Making a New Science" by James Gleick (1987). He applies/explains the defibrillation principles. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos:_Making_a_New_Science )

dave , Jan 12 2020 13:17 utc | 435
USA has attacked secular Iraq, secular Lybia, they helped Al Qaeda and other Islamists in their battle against secular governments (Afghanistan), USA (democrats) are in bed with the Muslim Brotherhood, USA has helped the Muslim Brotherhood and instigated the revolution in overthrowing the secular/military government of Egypt. USA was involved with the Arab Spring which targeted secular governments.

Soviet Union and USA both supported Saddam's Iraq against Iran, then USA dumped Saddam starting in 1991.

The concept of suicide bombings comes from Iran, they were promoting and instigating suicide bombings against Israel. Sunni Islam never had a history of suicide bombings before. Al Qaeda took that concept of suicide bombings from Iran and got a CIA sponsor (in the afghanistan war). Iran also has a tradition of religious flagellation: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2507355/Slashing-chained-blades-bloodied-Muslims-including-young-boys-flagellate-themselves.html

Emily , Jan 12 2020 13:18 utc | 436
Dave 427

Seems to me you need to swot up on the Sunni and Shia.
When you find out the differences come back.
This for instance...
Craig Murray 4th Jan
Quote
The truth of the matter is that if you take every American killed including and since 9/11, in the resultant Middle East related wars, conflicts and terrorist acts, well over 90% of them have been killed by Sunni Muslims financed and supported out of Saudi Arabia and its gulf satellites, and less than 10% of those Americans have been killed by Shia Muslims tied to Iran.
This is a horribly inconvenient fact for US administrations which, regardless of party, are beholden to Saudi Arabia and its money. It is, the USA affirms, the Sunnis who are the allies and the Shias who are the enemy. Yet every journalist or aid worker hostage who has been horribly beheaded or otherwise executed has been murdered by a Sunni, every jihadist terrorist attack in the USA itself, including 9/11, has been exclusively Sunni, the Benghazi attack was by Sunnis, Isil are Sunni, Al Nusra are Sunni, the Taliban are Sunni and the vast majority of US troops killed in the region are killed by Sunnis.
Precisely which are these hundreds of deaths for which the Shia forces of Soleimani were responsible? Is there a list? It is of course a simple lie. Its tenuous connection with truth relates to the Pentagon's estimate – suspiciously upped repeatedly since Iran became the designated enemy – that back during the invasion of Iraq itself, 83% of US troop deaths were at the hands of Sunni resistance and 17% of of US troop deaths were at the hands of Shia resistance, that is 603 troops. All the latter are now lain at the door of Soleimani, remarkably.
Those were US troops killed in combat during an invasion. The Iraqi Shia militias – whether Iran backed or not – had every legal right to fight the US invasion. The idea that the killing of invading American troops was somehow illegal or illegitimate is risible. Plainly the US propaganda that Soleimani was "responsible for hundreds of American deaths" is intended, as part of the justification for his murder, to give the impression he was involved in terrorism, not legitimate combat against invading forces. The idea that the US has the right to execute those who fight it when it invades is an absolutely stinking abnegation of the laws of war.
As I understand it, there is very little evidence that Soleimani had active operational command of Shia militias during the invasion, and in any case to credit him personally with every American soldier killed is plainly a nonsense. But even if Soleimani had personally supervised every combat success, these were legitimate acts of war. You cannot simply assassinate opposing generals who fought you, years after you invade.

dave , Jan 12 2020 13:34 utc | 437
@Russ Yes Bosnia was primarily US proxy, Alija Izetbegovic, Bosnian Muslim leader, he staged a coup with US backing, before he organized the illegal arming of his political party with illegal weapons, they started the war by attacking Yugoslav forces, Alija Izetbegovic wanted an Islamic State according to the Iranian revolution (as he had written in his book "Islamic Declaration"), many Iranian mujahideen (including Solaymani himself) besides famous Al Qaeda members went to Bosnia to fight (together). The Clinton administration gave the green light to Iran for their support to the Bosnian Muslims (which also included Sunni Islamic radicals and known 911 hijackers). Iran is willing to support Sunni terrorists if that is in their geopolitical interests, just as they supported Sunni radicals in the Palestinian areas (suicide bombings). Now Iran is enemy with Sunni radicals/terrorists, but Iran always wanted to unite all Islamic forces against Israel (and Christian world). Russia is seeking equilibrium in the middle east, Putin does not want to allied himself with 1 country against another country in the middle east, Russia does not want to allied herself with Iran against Israel, or the other way around.
Peter AU1 , Jan 12 2020 13:47 utc | 438
dave
You are rapped up in the concept of suicide attacks. It is as old as war itself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_attack#History,_pre-1980

Jack_garbo , Jan 12 2020 13:50 utc | 439
No more "whatabout" distraction from Iranian incompetence and guilt. One shootdown at a time. Iranian officers must be punished, commanders dismissed, compensation offered.
US and other Western crimes are separate, keep them separate.
Carciofi , Jan 12 2020 13:57 utc | 440
@269

"It is a mystery to me why the airport was not closed down that night, esp. in view of the FAA warning that specifically addresses Tehran."

This questions has been asked multiple times by numerous people, b included. Speculation only, but one possibility is that after the missile strike on the air bases the Iranian government was expecting a military response from the U.S., perhaps even Shock and Awe Ver 2. Maybe in that highly tense period somebody high up decided it would be better not to close the airspace immediately, thinking it would complicate matters for the U.S. And if a civilian plane did get hit in the cross-fire, the U.S. could be rightfully blamed.

Al Kiani , Jan 12 2020 13:59 utc | 441
Immediately after this horrific tragedy the leaders of the US Canada Austria Germany Holland as well as other Western leaders claimed that a missile had brought the plane down sighting "intelligence." How did the Western leaders know so quickly? Were their intelligence organizations privy in any way in bringing down the plane? Through hacking air defense radars or some other high-tech tools?

As the fog of War lifts, as we proceed forward I suspect we will know more. A lot more.

Sasha , Jan 12 2020 14:03 utc | 442
Some points...

-That now The Donald comes Twitting in Farsi is the obvious evidence that he does not manage his Twitter account, but one of his "ideologues", or a CIA agent...I bet Steven Miller...that nazi disguised in a gentleman suit trying, without success, to constrain his overwhelming rage againt everybody who do not profess his ideas...

-The regime in Oman will do nothing and will never join the Axis of Resistance, as a regime which resulted from a coup d´etat supported by the US/UK against its own father/monarch. We will be dándonos con un canto en los dientes if they remain somwhow "neutral"...
People who are more worried for their long time made up turbans, who hate getting untidy by any reason, do not usually take part in any fight, but like to remain as espectators...
That same could be said of the Swiss...who had the entrails to remain neutral during the nazi carnage, in the voew of all Europe being invaded, destroyed, submitted...hence they are now a rich country who act mainly as postman of the US...they had never to recover and rebuilt anything from smithereens as the rest of all....

-@Vintage Red, I join your expression of gratitude to bevin, although had to search for your numbered comments amongst the sea of trolls, but you notice the clear contrast with other alleged leftist resident of always ( notice how well they swim here in this sea of trolls and how they have taken advantage today to be prolific....)
That of bevin would be the common stance of any decent honest leftist, or person, in the world. The others resident here, who seem part time lefties, they really are not, but Trotskyite NATOist capitalist imperialist fifth column, the ones who have disintegrated and dismantled the genuine left in Europe and the whole West with their confussing stances, one day they say this, the other just the opposite....they criticize, slightly, the US, but then, at the first opprtunity, fall over any country or people from the resistance field as a hammer, justifying that way the evil deeds of the US and its cohort of criminal collaborating governments in Europe and North America.

-I continue finding the Russian stance in all these events shamefully mild, when not totally absent.

Peter AU1 , Jan 12 2020 14:07 utc | 443
The US and five eyes Orwellian hypocracy is far worse than any suicide attackers - in fact they now back the majority of them - the destruction a good part of the world in their war of terror, the humanitarian bombs and right to protect, weapons of mass destruction and vials of white powder regime changing friend and foe alike... the other day I had the pleasure of happening to be near a radio and had to listen to MH17 2.0 narrative ad nauseam. When Iran officials still thought the plane had come down due to technical problems fife new not only that it was downed by a surface to air missile, but that it was downed with a Tor missile.
With that it was completely obvious five eyes had pulled off another MH17 stunt.
And now shit head trolls like yourself and garbage man come to infest this site.
vk , Jan 12 2020 14:08 utc | 444
Now that Iran admitted downing the plane by mistake, some western journalists are pushing the narrative that it did it on purpose, and not by accident:

Iran keeps concocting fake news on downed jet

Stephen Bryen is the broken clock who was, for the first time in his life, right about the cause of the downing of the plane. Now he's riding on this excitement and is going one step further, echoing Trudeau's accusation one day earlier.

His main point of argument is that it is not possible the Tor operator had "only 6 seconds" to decide.

In the last thread, people who used the "it's too much coincidence" argument won the debate against all odds.

Now it's time for another "it's too much coincidence" argument: why, of all planes, it was a Boeing? Why, of all nationalities, it was Ukraine?

If Iran really downed the plane on purpose, then we're in counter-intelligence territory. The list of the names of the passengers is already out; some people here highlighted the fact that there were nuclear scientists in it; others highlighted the fact that the Americans can "mask" the signatures of a Boeing to make it look like a military plane; others got so far as to speculate about some kind of autopilot from afar. The correct question, though, should be: what did the Iranians discovered in or about that specific flight of such importance that they thought it better to publicly admit they downed it "by mistake"?

Kadath , Jan 12 2020 14:13 utc | 445
Re Peter Au,

Yes thats the same message that came with the alert no details on what happend though. Pickering has a terrible safety record so the government assurances mean very little to me if they felt this was important enough to send out an emergency warning saying you dont need to do anything they should at least give some explantion of what happend - as im typing they send out another emergency alert saying the first alert was sent in error what a bunch of monkeys what is going on another Hawaii missile drill

Peter AU1 , Jan 12 2020 14:28 utc | 446
vk "what did the Iranians discovered in or about that specific flight of such importance that they thought it better to publicly admit they downed it "by mistake"

Over the last years, Iran has gone to great pains to do things by the letter of international law. It has top quality diplomats and statesmen like Zarif. It wishes to trade with the world, be accepted by the world while retaining sovereignty and way of life. IT complied with the original stipulation of the nuke deal for a year after US pulled out, and with the introductions of US sanctions, European countries pulled out of deals and trade with Iran. Even now Iran is still within the terms of the nuke deal as the are stipulations on what can be done if a party pulls out or does not abide by the deal.
Iranian government for the first day or so where sure the plane had come down due to technical problems. When they found it had been shot down as their enemies were saying, it was a major blow. Those few days of denying it had been shot down undone much of the painstaking diplomatic work they had accomplished over a decade or so.
Also on the military side, Iranian military have proven to be very professional and high tech, but this shootdown will be used against them to try and show incompetence as many of the trolls here are doing.

Saraah , Jan 12 2020 14:30 utc | 447
Dave, for others to understand everything, please answer the only question. Are you one of those who are tolerantly called Zionists on this site?
ADKC , Jan 12 2020 14:51 utc | 448
Dave @422

"Ukraine did not close down the airspace, they were using the airliners as human shield as has been proven by the fact their jets were shadowing the airliners."

If we accept your view then we must accept that this was an intended win/win situation for Ukraine; Ukraine could use civilian aircraft for cover and, also, induce the rebels to shoot down a civilian aircraft. (I have a different view of MH17 but it would be OT to go into).

The MH17 scenario that you describe can only be comparable to Iranian shooting down PS752 if the US used similar tactics (presumably by use of electronic warfare) in order to induce Iran to shoot down PS752...

...or is it that your posts are full of fact-free, poorly researched whataboutism that should just be disregarded by any thinking person?

vk @444 asks the correct question? Perhaps, Iran know much more but a pre-requisite is that they must take responsibility for what they did - shooting down PS752) - and, perhaps, this is not what the US/west expected Iran to do? How would Iran know? Perhaps, Russian monitoring of US EW activity has revealed much more than the US expected? And, perhaps, Russia will not agree to any public relevation at present?

Sasha , Jan 12 2020 14:53 utc | 449
@Posted by: Emily | Jan 12 2020 13:18 utc | 436

To your list of Sunni terrorists´ victims, add all those resulting from terrorist attacks in Europe in the last years, by, then discovered, suspciously Sunni extremists related to mosques and mullahs funde by KSA for long time old known of the security services of any European country which has suffered these terrorist attacks....

Everybody a bit informed and their dogs knows by now that all these attacks were made to create "shock and awe" amongst the gullible population to jusitify European intevention in the illegal wars on Lybia, Syria and Iraq....What the gullible population do not know is that their governments were allying in all those invaded and slaughtered countries the same Sunni extremist terrorist who have slaughtered their own population in Europe, and not only, but morevoer they gave them prizes... like with the case of the UK MI6 founded/funded/trained White Helmets of HM...

BM , Jan 12 2020 14:59 utc | 450
There is a lot of tin hat conspiracy theorising in this thread (1) centred on an alleged FAA ban on US flights over "Tehran", and (2) that the Ukraine flight allegedly turned back to the airport before being hit by the missile.

The nonesense over the alleged FAA ban on US flights over "Tehran" has thankfully already been dealt with by the posting of the full text of the NOTAMs: the FAA ban, which applied only to US aircraft, was for all US flights in the whole of Iran airspace and the whole of Iraq airspace. Such a ban is fully to be expected in view of recent US military actions.

As regards the alleged turn of the aircraft. The Flightradar24 site shows the actual path of the Ukraine flight up to the point the transponder signals ceased (the point where the missile hit), and compare it both with the other 9 flights from Tehran that morning, and with the previous 45 scheduled flights by PS752. It is crystal clear that the only turn the aircraft made up to the point it was hit was 100% in line with it's scheduled flight plan. The only difference that could be drawn is that in terms of angle of climb it was well below average - almost but not quite the lowest of the 45 flights - because the aircraft was way overweight and therefore had difficulty climbing even on full power. The pilot Peter Haisenko wrote in detail about that. The turn, however, (up to the end of transponder transmissions) was only about 50 degrees, and was completely in line with other flights. The turn was also completed well before the missile hit - when the missile hit it was already established on straight and level flight.

The video of the Aerospace Commander's presentation shows a very sketchy hand-drawn diagram which is not to scale, with an exaggerated turn (but still depicted as less than the claimed 90 degrees). However the Aerospace Commander's sketch and the Flightradar24 charts are wholly in agreement despite the very inaccurate sketch - this is clear from the locality map given by Flightplan24, and further down the page the elevation plan, which shows the topography in 3-D.

In the latter picture you can clearly see the mountains in the background, and two smaller pointed hills in the foreground. From the video it is clear that the air defence base was at the top of the second (further) of these small hills, obviously utilising the high ground for the defence of Tehran. Virtually all the flights shown by Flightradar24 first start to turn at exactly the same point - level with the first hill - and turn towards a path going immediately to the left of the second hill where the air defence is mounted. This means that immediately on completion of the turn, all these flights would be pointing nearly directly at the air defence base, exactly as shown on the commander's sketch (except that the latter exaggerated somewhat the angle of turn). Comparing the map with the 3-D view this can be seen quite clearly.

This does not say anything about whether there was a turn after being hit - if the missile hit one engine this would automatically cause the aircraft to turn unless compensated for by the pilots, who may have been already dead - that is irrelevant to this issue.


I do share the gut feeling that the incident may have been set-up by the US, because there are a lot of grounds for suspicion, but as far as I know there is no concrete evidence in the public domain in support of that suspicion at this stage - certainly not in terms of an unusual turn before being hit by the missile.

Grounds for the Iranians to believe they had detected cruise missiles are likely very strong - the US uses electronic warfare measures (see the link posted by Peter AU) which cause the Iranian radar to see phantom images of moving objects. Many US aircraft were moving around the outside(??) of Iranian airspace, presumably creating these phantom radar images of cruise missiles, therefore the Iranians would presumably have "seen" these suspected cruise missiles in the border regions, assumed they then penetrated Iranian territory unseen by hugging the ground through the mountains, in which case they could suddenly appear subsequently at some stage where radar can detect them.

[Jan 12, 2020] It continue to be highly suspicious of the fact that it is a Ukrainian plane. Ukraine is firmly in the Anglo-Zionist camp,

Jan 12, 2020 | www.moonofalabama.org

Tom_LX , Jan 11 2020 19:40 utc | 250

The fact that the plane was brought down because of the conflict initiated by Trump makes everything about it very suspicious. Just because Iran states that it is responsible does not disqualify the possibility that they were not made to make this mistake. We do not know the facts as to what the Iranian defense system saw as that Ukrainian plane was flying.

I continue to be highly suspicious of the fact that it is a Ukrainian plane. Ukraine is firmly in the Anglo-Zionist camp, period. Zelensky or not the deal was sealed when V. Nuland finished her work in Kiev. The only reason Ukraine made a deal with Russia is because it is in financial trouble and needs revenue. The West will not keep it afloat. So thinking that suddenly it is conducting its own foreign policy is incorrect.

As an aside. Does a sovereign country bring in a man like this to help it run its country ?

Mikheil Saakashvili - born 21 December 1967) is a Georgian and Ukrainian politician.[7][8] He was the third President of Georgia for two consecutive terms from 25 January 2004 to 17 November 2013. From May 2015 until November 2016, Saakashvili was the Governor of Ukraine's Odessa Oblast.[1][9][10] He is the founder and former chairman of the United National Movement party.
How about this one,
Natalie Ann Jaresko is an American-born Ukrainian investment banker who served as Ukraine's Minister of Finance from December 2014 until April 2016.[1] In 20 March 2017, she was appointed as executive director of the Financial Oversight & Management Board for Puerto Rico.
or this one,
Aivaras Abromavičius is a Lithuanian-born Ukrainian investment banker and politician. On 31 August 2019 Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky appointed Abromavičius the Director General of Ukroboronprom.[1] Previously he was Ukraine's Minister of Economy and Trade starting in December 2014 (Abromavičius announced his resignation on 3 February 2016). He did not retain his post in the Groysman Government that was installed in 14 April 2016.[2]

Ukraine is a Captured State.

Thus the possibility exists that that plane may have had some equipment placed in it in Kiev that could trick the Iranian Defense system to think a craft is a danger to it. Kiev would have been a safe place to do it (reasons above). If this were true does anyone here believe that announcing this fact Public opinion would believe it ? I for one don't. Russia knows how that worked out with Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 (MH17). No matter what Iran would have said that would have been spun in the West as attempting to blame someone else. Thanks to this all attention in the Media would have been on Iran which Trump would have loved. Again, Russia knows how this was played out in Malaysia MH17 case. The average CNN viewer in that case would not see how the BUKA Russian was being used as evidence that it was Russia that shot the plane down.

Iran did the right thing in admitted that it was responsible whether it was their fault or not. There was simply no way to win in the case of having being fooled into shooting the plane down.


E Mo Scél , Jan 11 2020 20:36 utc | 259

The FAA banned flights of commercial airplanes over Tehran 2 hours before the plane came down. Note, over Tehran, not over Iran. That's quite specific. Communication was lost when the officer had to make a decision. Communication jamming is part of modern warfare. Maybe this is a thwarted attempt by the US at a "disproportionate response" to Iranian strikes. Maybe this is why Trump is not that excited and had to take drugs before performing his Iran speech.
alaff , Jan 11 2020 21:00 utc | 265
Iran deserves respect, if only because it openly and honestly admitted its responsibility for what happened. This shows the maturity and courage of the political and military leadership of this country.
It is clear that the plane was shot down unintentionally. It is also obvious that Iran was provoked by the actions of the United States.

This is called life. That happens. And not only that. Human factor. We cannot avoid this and 100% eliminate all risks.

In 1914, an idiot killed a monarch, which led to a large-scale war and the death of millions of people. Human factor. Soldiers accidentally make the wrong buttons. Workers at an oil factory smoke in the wrong place, resulting in huge fires. People do not notice an extinct burner on a gas stove, resulting in an explosion, collapse of the house and death of people. Vacationers tourists did not extinguish after themselves a fire in the forest, as a result of which a giant fire covers thousands of hectares of territory. During the invasion of Iraq in 2003, American Patriot systems destroyed a friendly British Tornado fighter bomber (in addition to the destroyed American fighters). In February 2017, the Russian Aerospace Forces mistakenly attacked the Turkish military in northern Syria. In 2001, Ukrainian air defense, conducting military exercises, shot down a Russian passenger plane TU-154 over the Black Sea, 78 people died. So on and so on... The technique and equipment is imperfect. People all the more.

The Iranian situation is very similar to what happened in September 2018. Syrian air defense shot down a Russian military plane, provoked by deliberate actions by Israeli aviation. Just to remind that the Russian side has made it clear who is the true culprit of the tragedy. In the case of Iran, the same thing. It is one thing if the plane crashes as a result of a pilot error or a technical malfunction. But when it is now clear that plane was shot down, and the Iranian air defense acted as it was provoked by the actions of the United States, then the guilt of the United States only increases.

bevin , Jan 11 2020 19:27 utc | 242
Iran bears very little, if any responsibility in this matter.
The United States is entirely to blame-what has occurred is exactly what the
US government was aiming at. It has created an atmosphere of fear and panic
in the knowledge that it would create chaos-that normal government would break down
and mistakes be made.
The US plays with the lives of people. It plays God, a God dedicated to the principle of pure evil.
It plays with people's lives, the lives of the 'ants' that Harry Lime saw from above Vienna,
as a matter of course. In Gaza children with cancer cannot get treatment because the US and Israel
want to make life harder for their parents. The evil objective is to madden the people to the point
that they will rise up and kill those who oppose the Occupation. In Colombia, Bolivia, Honduras, Ecuador
and Brazil-even as we speak Death Squads-trained armed and financed-by the US and Israel stalk those
who want to reform their society. In Venezuela the supply of food and medicine is interrupted as far as
the power of the US and its allies extends.
Around the world where there are evil deeds being carried out, where children are starving, medicines are
withheld, protesters are being assassinated and militias are terrorising the population-the hands of the
United States and its allies are always evident. It was they who imported tens of thousands of wahhabis
into Afghanistan, Russia, China and the battlegrounds that we all know in order to kill, frighten and impoverish
the people. The people of Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Iran, Lebanon and far beyond- all of them have seen their
living standards diminished, their security removed their hopes of happiness systematically thwarted.
In order, evil order, to punish them, not for anything that they have done but in the hope that they will
surrender themselves to the United States and its agents, submit.
The truth is that human history has never seen a regime like that now ruling the United States and attempting
to rule the world. Nothing compares with it, the Nazis were simply malicious pygmies in comparison.
Many people from Trudeau to posters here refuse to admit what is crystal clear and what history will
confirm: all the deaths that come, daily, weekly, yearly from this assumption by the United States of
prerogatives, religion reserves for God; all the deaths that come from this juvenile playing with the lives of
ordinary people are entirely the choice of the US government.
Trudeau bears more responsibility for the deaths of these airline passengers than anyone in Iran. It was his choice to
keep the Embassy doors closed, to withdraw diplomatic representation and to join the US in its sanctions
against the Iranian people. He has made the same choice in Venezuela, where similar accidents may occur (have occurred
as in the sabotage of the power grid). People died then, people die daily and they do so because of choices made by
governments playing with the lives of the people.
Everyone of the victims would be alive today had not the mafia in Washington decided to smash up their society.
And they would almost certainly have been alive still had Trudeau and Freeland-and the four parties in Ottawa- done
, what most Canadians want them to do and disassociate themselves and Canada from the evil games Washington plays.

I hope that no Iranian is tricked into surrendering to evil. I hope that the tone of the Revolutionary Guards-one
of sincere regret and manly apology- does not inform their future moves which must be to re-double their commitment
to the defence of their country and the defeat of the most evil government the world has ever seen.

Ort , Jan 11 2020 19:30 utc | 243
Re: Trudeau's escalating attempts at scene-stealing

The odious, opportunistic popinjay Trudeau seems to have calculated that it's time for him to upgrade his "brand" from "dashing young Bonnie Prince Justin" to "Mature Statesman with Gravitas".

Thus, his predilection for elbowing his way to the head of the Western Hegemony Official Spokesperson line and bumptiously blowing off his big bazoo.

The new beard is a "tell"; some men, especially handsome but "baby-faced" men, are susceptible to an abiding adolescent impulse to grow facial hair in order to appear more mature. It can't be a coincidence that Trudeau's beard correlates with his increased penchant for making (fatuous) bold and aggressive pronouncements on geopolitical crises.

I know that Trudeau has a pedigree that nominally puts him in the top drawer of Canada's political aristocracy. Still, he reminds me a lot of the Venezuelan golpista boy-toy Juan "Random Guy" Guaidó.

Andromeda , Jan 11 2020 20:38 utc | 261
Prometheus - Thank you for your information. I previously thought the transponder signal would identify the plane as a civilian aircraft but one question remains for me: even without IFF would the airtraffic control not (verify the identity)and be in contact with the pilot when the course is changed? Is there no coordination between civlian and military air-control? (especially in such a tense situation)

(the Ukrainain plane turned around - why?)

Still ...despite the admission it is strange that an aviation expert like Peter Haisenko (retired Lufthansa pilot with special technical knowledge who knows Tehran airport well) came to a very different conclusion: (excerpt from German Original - my translation)

Weil mittlerweile bekannt ist, dass die Boeing nach dem ersten Aufprall noch etwa 500 Meter über den Boden geschrammt ist, darf man davon ausgehen, dass sie in flachem Winkel den Boden berührt hat, etwa wie bei einer Landung. Sie ist also nicht „ungespitzt" in den Boden gerammt.

Since it is now known the Boing grazed the ground for about 500 metres after impact it is reasonable to assume that she touched the ground at a flat-angle, like in a regular landing. [...]

Das deutet wiederum darauf hin, dass sich die Piloten in ihrer Notlage gar nicht bewusst waren, wie nahe sie dem Boden bereits sind und völlig unerwartet Bodenkontakt hatten. [...]

This is an indication that the Pilots were not aware of their emergency (how close to the ground they were) and unexpectedly touched the ground. [...]


Fest steht wohl, dass die ukrainische Boeing nach dem Start einen Motorschaden hatte. Und zwar einen soliden, mit Feuer und Totalausfall.

It appears to be certain that the Ukrainian Boeing suffered an engine breakdown after take-off, a severe one with fire and total failure.


Zunächst stelle ich fest, dass es nahezu unmöglich ist, ein Passagierflugzeug in dieser Flugphase abzuschießen. Man müsste schon jemanden mit einer kleinen Boden-Luft-Rakete im erwarteten Abflugkorridor platzieren, der dann dem abfliegenden Jet die Rakete hinterher schießt. Dieses hitzesuchende Projektil könnte dann einen Motor treffen, was aber kein zwingender Grund für einen Absturz ist. Mit einem Motor kann das Flugzeug weiter fliegen, wenn die Rahmenumstände entsprechend aller Vorschriften gesetzt worden sind. Eine größere, aufwendigere Flugabwehreinrichtung scheidet für diese Flugphase und den Ort aus. Nicht nur wegen der geringen Höhe über Grund, sondern auch, weil es solche Anlagen in dieser Gegend nicht gibt. Wenn, dann befinden sie sich im weiteren Umkreis, um Angriffe aus größerer Höhe weit vor der Stadt abzuwehren. Warum ist es dann überhaupt zu dem Absturz gekommen?

https://www.anderweltonline.com/wissenschaft-und-technik/luftfahrt-2020/ist-die-ukrainische-b-737-in-teheran-abgeschossen-worden/

Haisenko asserts that " it is nearly impossible to shoot down a passenger plane in this phase of the flight. In order to do that you'd need to place a (sort of) MANPAD in the expected flight-corridor and the heat-seaking missile could then destroy one of the engines.But this does not automatically lead to the crashing of the plane since it is able to fly with one engine [...] A bigger anti-aircraft system is not suitable for this phase of the flight ... these systems aim to intercept (destroy) targets flying at much higher altitutes and farther away from the cities ... So why did the crash happen?

Obviously he wrote that before the Iranian admission was published and with limited knowledge but still one wonders if electronic warfare played a role and certain parties wanted that plane to crash ... (at least a closer look at the passenger list seems advisable)


Emily , Jan 11 2020 21:01 utc | 266
Bevin 242

That is one of the best posts I have ever read and I have read more than a few.
Never a truer word.
If it needed a precis.......
Madeleine Albright.
The deaths of of 500,000 Iraqi children is a price worth paying.
This from a woman who had played a leading role in the destruction of Yugoslavia and the handing of the Serbian province of Kosovo to the KLA a forerunner of Al Qaeda and ISIS.
Today a narco criminal islamic state - and a base for the bloodletting and birthing of the European Caliphate.
And unlimited proxies for the USA War Of!! Terror across the Middle East.
Pure evil.

harold , Jan 11 2020 21:02 utc | 268
Sadly due to their own incompetence, Iran lost there moral high ground!
A great disappointment to those of us who supported Iran through thick and thin.

I'm not convinced this is a moral issue.

E Mo Scel , Jan 11 2020 21:03 utc | 269
am repeating my first comment for context sake:

The FAA banned flights of commercial airplanes over Tehran 2 hours before the plane came down. Note, over Tehran, not over Iran. That's quite specific. Communication was lost when the officer had to make a decision. Communication jamming is part of modern warfare. Maybe this is a thwarted attempt by the US at a "disproportionate response" to Iranian strikes. Maybe this is why Trump is not that excited and had to take drugs before performing his Iran speech.

Adding:

This would also explain why this is the first time the US did not respond to a state attacking US institutions/military bases. The Us, in fact, did respond: "Let this serve as a WARNING that if Iran strikes any Americans, or American assets, we have targeted 52 Iranian sites (representing the 52 American hostages taken by Iran many years ago), some at a very high level & important to Iran & the Iranian culture, and those targets, and Iran itself, WILL BE HIT VERY FAST AND VERY HARD. The USA wants no more threats!"

we have (!) targeted (that must mean there were plans for imminent actions in place, it's not saying "we will target") Iranian sites, some at a very high level (!), very fast (!) and very hard.

Their response went horribly wrong. Maybe a US drone was found. Maybe the US jammed communication systems. It's all speculation but it could be that the US response is the cause for the shooting down of the plane. It is a mystery to me why the airport was not closed down that night, esp. in view of the FAA warning that specifically addresses Tehran. The Iranian civil flights authority should have known about this, or is information of this kind proprietary, i.e. not shared across countries/systems? The FAA is a lead aviation agency, it's not as if the aviation agency of Tristan da Cunha had issued such a ban.

The FAA banning US aircraft flying over Tehran after Iran had struck the bases - my gut tells me the US had planned and were executing a response involving a target in Tehran which resulted in the plane being targeted by Iranian air defense systems... the jamming of communication systems (which would have been part of the US response) would be the direct cause for the plane being targeted. If this is true the US has this blood on their hands, not Iran. Again, that's why Trump was clearly under the influence of some drugs. Because that blood is on his hands, or rather, his big mouth and big ego.

...

"Let this serve as a WARNING that if Iran strikes any Americans, or American assets, we have targeted 52 Iranian sites (representing the 52 American hostages taken by Iran many years ago), some at a very high level & important to Iran & the Iranian culture, and those targets, and Iran itself, WILL BE HIT VERY FAST AND VERY HARD."

somebody , Jan 11 2020 21:08 utc | 270
Daily Telegraph with explanations
(before Iran confessed)
How would the passenger plane have been accidentally targeted?

That is less clear, but is one of the challenges facing any missile operator. While military aircraft will plot course to avoid radar, civilian airliners are equipped with transponders that identify the craft and their flight path set and share it with military bases in the area.

Theoretically, the Ukrainian Boeing 737-800 should have been identified as a civilian craft on any radar. But if the Western assessment is true, this incident will join other tragic incidents of civilian planes being shot down by anti-aircraft weaponry.

In 2014, Malaysia Airline Flight 17 was suspected to have been inadvertently shot down by Russian missiles, though Moscow has consistently denied any involvement. And in 1988, a US warship engaging with Iranian gunboats in the Persian Gulf, the USS Vincennes, shot down an Iranian passenger plane after mistaking it for a jet fighter, killing all 290 people on board.

They have a nice map of Iran's rocket range. The map explains the Russian attitude towards Iran which is complex. Iran's rockets do NOT reach the USA but they reach the whole of the Middle East and a large part of Russia.

mikh , Jan 11 2020 21:29 utc | 272
To all the smart asses:Yes Iran should have closed the airport but other have some responsibility too. The Ukraine for example. Allowing planes to fly in to what is practically a war zone. Not that thei have done it before..
Peter AU1 , Jan 11 2020 21:34 utc | 274
Iranian military presentation which shows flight path, at what position in the turn
the aircraft was hit and location of SAM site in relation to the plane.
https://twitter.com/AbasAslani/status/1215942737557671936

The aircraft was hit when it had turned directly towards the Tor unit, at that point a
turn of nearly ninety degrees which I take it was located at the military site.

Bill Smith , Jan 11 2020 21:46 utc | 281
According to this Iran has fired this system at other civilian aircraft. From the news in 2012:

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/03/world/middleeast/wary-of-israel-iran-is-said-to-blunder-in-strikes.html

"Iranian air defense units have taken inappropriate actions dozens of times, including firing antiaircraft artillery and scrambling aircraft against unidentified or misidentified targets," noted a heavily classified Pentagon intelligence report, which added that the Iranian military's communications were so inadequate and its training deficiencies so significant that "misidentification of aircraft will continue."

Peter AU1 , Jan 11 2020 22:14 utc | 291
E Mo Scel 284

The Ukraine plane was the target and the operation was successfull.
this was the only way US could strike Iran without Iran striking US bases throughout the regin plus Israel.
When Trump threatened strikes against 52 cultural sites if Iran retaliated for the killing of Soleimani, Iran said Isreal would also be hit (it has been noticeable US and Isreal have beeing trying pass of US as threatening Iran as indipendent of Isreal).
This is when the Trump admin and Israel would have settled on the takedown of a civian craftby Iran air defence. This makes Iran look fools in the eyes of fools as has occurred here and not the highly professional force they truly are.

Sam , Jan 11 2020 22:21 utc | 292
Iranians have gathered in the streets of Tehran to demand the resignation of Ayatollah Seyed Ali Khamenei after the regime admitted it had mistakenly shot down a civilian passenger plane.

Angry crowds gathered on Saturday night in at least four locations in Tehran, chanting 'death to liars' and calling for the country's supreme leader to step down over the tragic military blunder, video from the scene shows.

What began as mournful vigils for Iranian lives lost on the flight soon turned to outrage and protest against the regime, and riot police quickly cracked down, firing tear gas into the crowd.

'Death to the Islamic Republic' protesters chanted, as the regime's security forces allegedly used ambulances to sneak heavily armed paramilitary police into the middle of crowds to disperse the demonstration.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7876363/Iranian-protesters-Tehran-turn-against-regime-military-admits-shooting-plane.html

I don't blame the Iranians protesting the unnecessary deaths of their compatriots through sheer incompetence and lack of coordination among civil and military officials. They clearly should have grounded all commercial flights. Their air defense units should have at least the basic ability to discern between a commercial jet and military aircraft & missiles. If they are this incompetent or their systems are so poor how do they expect to withstand the onslaught of an air attack by the US that would include thousands of missiles and thousands of sorties a day! Tehran will be flattened.

E Mo Scel , Jan 11 2020 23:19 utc | 313
Peter AU1 291

We agree that there was a US response, and that the plane was involved in this response. You think it was the idea from the beginning to trick Iranian air defense into shooting this particular plane down, I think there was a different target and things did not go according to plan, while the plane played a role. Both of us are speculating. You think the operation was successful, I say no, things went wrong. The US could not continue with their operation as this would have made it obvious they had utilized the plane in some way. It's different from the incident where Syria shot down a Russian military plane when Israeli jets used it as cover - this here was a civilian plane. So, speculation from my side.

It's also to be observed that 146 people on the plane were Iranian citizens; this could speak for your theory as this is a problem for the government of Iran (protests) ("One-hundred forty-six victims held Iranian passport, ten Afghan, five Canadian, four Swede and two Ukrainian. All nine crew members consisting of three cockpit crew and six cabin crew were Ukrainian. Note: A number of victims could have had multiple nationalities, so other news reports might introduce them with different nationalities than the ones in this report. The above list concerns the passport with which they left the Islamic Republic of Iran air border.") https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Iran-CAO-PS752-Initial-Report.pdf

I have no means to know. I am sure, though, that the big mouthed announcement of Trump is real. There was a response. I hope the dams won't hold for this one.

Peter AU1 , Jan 11 2020 23:32 utc | 314
E Mo Scel

Various MSM have stories of victims. The British and Canadian victims I saw in these articles all had Iranian names. Students expats ect returning to Iran for a visit.
One couple to get married in Iran.
Seemed to be a large number of university students including a couple of professors.

Vasco da Gama , Jan 11 2020 23:39 utc | 317
Regarding the FAA NOTAMS restricting airspace a list is provided here . It is not accurate to claim only Tehran was restricted:

KICZ A0001/20 - SECURITY..UNITED STATES OF AMERICA FLIGHT PROHIBITION AGAINST CERTAIN FLIGHTS IN THE BAGHDAD FLIGHT INFORMATON REGION (FIR)
(ORBB) - 07 JAN 23:45 2020 UNTIL PERM. CREATED: 07 JAN 23:49 2020

KICZ A0002/20 - SECURITY..UNITED STATES OF AMERICA FLIGHT PROHIBITION AGAINST CERTAIN FLIGHTS IN THE TEHRAN FLIGHT INFORMATON REGION (FIR) (OIIX) - 08 JAN 00:10 2020 UNTIL PERM. CREATED: 08 JAN 00:07 2020

Notice these cover national airspace, it is not limited to the cities they refer to. The timezones are UTC.

Zanon , Jan 11 2020 23:41 utc | 318
Well Israel and neocons sure have a good laugh how well it turned out for them past week. Not sure how Iran will be able to get back from this anytime soon, now being attacked both from abroad and internally. Not to mention the collaboration between protesters and the west.
Qparticle , Jan 11 2020 23:51 utc | 321
This site and its comments have been an unfortunate repository of ridiculous, reflexive anti-American nonsense over the past few weeks. The speculation about the flight, and inability to accept Iranian responsibility, was one of the more silly charades.

Posted by: Daniel Lennon | Jan 11 2020 16:46 utc | 185

I would add anti-Semitic too....
In my own country can't criticise Mossad actions on the news.. it would be anti-Semitic too...

So here what came from a Forbes article that helped uncover a huge Mossad Operation targeting Cyprus Larnaka airport (their Cypriot allies)
The 2 "ex" agents identified is only probably the tip of the proverbial iceberg...

"A Multimillionaire Surveillance Dealer Steps Out Of The Shadows . . . And His $9 Million WhatsApp Hacking Van"
https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2019/08/05/a-multimillionaire-surveillance-dealer-steps-out-of-the-shadows-and-his-9-million-whatsapp-hacking-van#5787fb8231b7

Youtube: https://youtu.be/Tl3mpywMYFA

9.5 million smart phones it is estimated were hacked by the Mossad Stingray like tech discuised as plain ambulances alone in Larnaka air port during the time of the operation.

Peter AU1 , Jan 12 2020 1:10 utc | 346
This is looking to be a very complex operation the US and five eyes is pulling off. Rather than simply reacting to events after the killing of Soleimani, the killing was inteded to set up circumstances to induce Iran into firing at a civilian aircraft. The act of war in killing the Iranian military official and diplomat followed by threats against Iranian cultural sites. With Iran air dfences on high alert, all it required was to cut air defence coms and turn an aircraft at the same time. Once that is aclomplashed, making Iran look incompetent in the eyes of the world it is straight into the pre-organised regime change operation.
I hope Russia and China will be giving Iran a bit of an assist in this because they are facing a very dangerous moment. Anything can happen now that US thinks it has Iran on the backfoot. And I think Iran is on the backfoot at the moment. What has happened has shocked them. Zarif and others, saying the plane definitely was not shot down and then realising they were wrong.
Very dangerous period for Iran as US will now press its attack harder, and perhaps in more unexpected ways. Hopefully the crew that fired will not be punished because of this. If they are, air defense crew will be hesitant to make decisions anytime their coms are cut.
The IRGC said they had asked for all flights to be grounded but the request was not acted on. This is the area hopefully the Iranian investigation will focus on.
Peter AU1 , Jan 12 2020 1:38 utc | 353
VK "Right after the assassination of Soleimani, Pompeo went publicly and said Iran was "one step closer to regime change""

The Assassination was the first step. Trump threats against Iran cultural sites the second step. Iran retaliation against the US bases the third step. Downing the civilian aircraft step four. And guess what... regime change operation kicks into gear.

stevelaudig , Jan 12 2020 1:43 utc | 354
But for Trump's murder of Soleimani, the Iranians would not have been so jumpy.
Trump's murder of Soleimani, was a significant factor in making the Iranians jumpy.
These deaths go on Trump's death count card along with all the dead in Syria.

[Jan 12, 2020] Utter incompetence and criminal negligence of Iran authorities

So they warned Americans about incoming missile strikes, but did not cancel passenger flights... "As Iran has already notified the Swiss embassy prior to attack on American bases, it is curious why Iran did not close its airspace and ground flights following the attack."
Still it does seems an extraordinary lack of common sense that commercial civilian flights were allowed to fly around under conditions of such high tension in the country. Also night take-offs. Better to wait until morning . . .
Notable quotes:
"... To let the civilians planes to flight while expecting they could have an US retaliation is a big mistake, because, as the Israeli did in the shooting-down of the IL-20 in Syria, the US plane could choose to be "radar-shadowed" by the civilians planes and use the civilians planes as shields before bomb the Iranian targets ..."
"... They should have grounded all commercial flights. Really, Really dumb on Iran's part. And I see the saker has been mum on the whole affair. ..."
"... It definitely shoots some holes in his propping up of the Iranian military/government to show how ready and focused they are for an American invasion. ..."
"... Why did the US keep info under wraps in the intelligence briefing to members U.S. Congress ... afterwards they specifically said there was. NO intelligence Ukraine airliner was shot down ... lots to learn for all. Not following the Putin playbook. Or other cover-ups like NATO downing an Italian passenger jet near Ithaca. Ukraine themselves have accidentally shot down a Siberian airliner by exercises above the Black Sea. ..."
"... Pretty hard to believe an accident this stupid. Sorry. ..."
Jan 12, 2020 | www.moonofalabama.org
David , Jan 11 2020 11:58 utc | 107
The Iranian Armed Forces General Staff just admitted (in Farsi, English translation ) that its air defenses inadvertently shot down the Ukrainian flight PS 752 shortly after it took off on January 8 in Tehran :
2- In early hours after the missile attack [on US' Ain al-Assad base in Iraq], the military flights of the US' terrorist forces had increased around the country. The Iranian defence units received news of witnessing flying targets moving towards Iran's strategic centres, and then several targets were observed in some [Iranian] radars, which incited further sensitivity at the Air Defence units.

3- Under such sensitive and critical circumstances, the Ukrainian airline's Flight PS752 took off from Imam Khomeini Airport, and when turning around, it approached a sensitive military site of the IRGC, taking the shape and altitude of a hostile target. In such conditions, due to human error and in an unintentional move, the airplane was hit [by the Air Defence], which caused the martyrdom of a number of our compatriots and the deaths of several foreign nationals.

4- The General Staff of the Armed Forces offers condolences and expresses sympathy with the bereaved families of the Iranian and foreign victims, and apologizes for the human error. It also gives full assurances that it will make major revision in the operational procedures of its armed forces in order to make impossible the recurrence of such errors. It will also immediately hand over the culprits to the Judicial Organization of the Armed Forces for prosecution.

The Pentagon had claimed that Iran shot down the airliner but the evidence it presented was flimsy and not sufficient as the U.S. tends to spread disinformation about Iran.

To let the civilians planes to flight while expecting they could have an US retaliation is a big mistake, because, as the Israeli did in the shooting-down of the IL-20 in Syria, the US plane could choose to be "radar-shadowed" by the civilians planes and use the civilians planes as shields before bomb the Iranian targets


Nemesiscalling , Jan 11 2020 4:29 utc | 1

At the very least, it does show us that anxieties were running very high that evening/early morning with no "in-the-know" arrangement for how the deescalation was going to pan out.

They should have grounded all commercial flights. Really, Really dumb on Iran's part. And I see the saker has been mum on the whole affair.

It definitely shoots some holes in his propping up of the Iranian military/government to show how ready and focused they are for an American invasion.

Bodes poorly.

Mark , Jan 11 2020 4:53 utc | 4
Sadly due to their own incompetence, Iran lost there moral high ground!
A great disappointment to those of us who supported Iran through thick and thin.

/Slow clap

Peter AU1 , Jan 11 2020 5:01 utc | 7
So much for engine malfunction. fives eyes said it was a missile so I thought it would have been their proxies like Ukraine, but not the case this time. Downing the drone firing only one missile, precision strikes on the US base... shit happens especially when the US and five eyes are involved and creating the fog of war. Hope it doesn't make the Iranians hesitate when they next need to fire one.
Sam , Jan 11 2020 5:05 utc | 8
@1

Yes, why didn't Iran ground all commercial flights while there was hostilities and the potential for reprisal missile and air attacks? Their air defenses can't be that good if they can't distinguish between a commercial jet and a military jet.

Indeed does not bode well in the event of war with the US which would destroy much of Iran.

Peter AU1 , Jan 11 2020 5:14 utc | 10
For the trolls currently infesting this site - Iraq, a relatively small country when it comes to superpowers has been successfully fending off the US for fourty years. Fourty years when they could be attacked by the US at any time. They have developed their own air defences plus high tech missiles that accurately hit a US base within an Iraqi base. Trump is intent on destroying Iran. The US regime wouldn't hesitate to use a civilian plane to try and penetrate Iran's defences. US is as culpable of this downing as was the crew of the US ship that far from home and on Iran's doorstep downed the Iranian passenger jet.
SharonM , Jan 11 2020 5:15 utc | 11
@4 Mark

I'm pretty sure Iran will never lose the moral high ground against the U.S. and Israel;)

pleasebeleafme , Jan 11 2020 5:15 utc | 12
Well. Looks like Iran will have to lay low for awhile or at least until the US starts the war for real. Not necessarily a bad thing?
At least the victims families get some closure. Iran should propose that some of their frozen assets be released to pay restitution.
The downing of the plane probably helped avoid an American retaliation for the missile strikes.
Sam , Jan 11 2020 5:17 utc | 13
Iran cleared up the crash site where the passenger jet came down and before admitting its responsibility on Friday, said it wanted to handle the black box data itself.

The debris of the Boeing 737 has been removed from the crash site near Tehran before Ukrainian investigators have even arrived , sparking fears of a cover-up.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7875505/Iran-ADMITS-shooting-Ukrainian-jetliner.html

It was a dead giveaway yesterday when Iran started clearing the debris from the crash site before any independent investigators arrived. When you add that to video that showed the Ukranian airliner exploding in the air, it would have indicated a decent probability that Iran was hiding something. But....most everyone in the earlier threads on the downing of the jet were finding all kinds of excuses why it couldn't have been an Iranian air defense missile.

Lysander , Jan 11 2020 5:30 utc | 18
Yes this is a horrible tragedy and I wish Iran had grounded all flights until they were certain all was clear. But in real life accidents and mistakes happen, sometimes very tragic and costly.

But all this talk of Iranian 'incompetence' and 'loss of moral high ground' is utter nonesense.

Iran handled this tragic mistake about as well as anyone could. Indeed far better than many others have. Especially when you consider that they knew that their enemies would use everything in an inform8war against them. Given the circumstances, Iran handled the aftermath as well as possible. 'Why did it take Iran so long to admit it?' Well, 'so long' is 3 days. And even before that, they invited experts from Boeing and even the NTSB to help with the investinvestigation.

And now those who wished to use this incident against Iran are stuck. What can they say? The US making a fuss about it will only offer an opportunity to remind everyone of IA655. Iran has already admitted it and apologized. Not much more to use.

And none of this changes the fact that Iran is the only country to openly retaliate against the US military and have the US back down.

tucenz , Jan 11 2020 5:37 utc | 20
The following link has interesting info about some of the people killed in the Ukrainian flight PS 752. Originally, I wasn't going to mention this article because in it it said "...A crash which US authorities are now saying was caused by Iran's own missile defence systems. An explanation which Iran seems to be accepting for the moment. ..." but as that seems to be the case. This tragic shootdown will make Russia cautious in supplying Iran with missiles.

https://postmanproductions.wordpress.com/2020/01/10/uss-cvn-aotearoa-a-lockheed-weapons-platform/

Fundas , Jan 11 2020 5:45 utc | 23

It only took 2 Days! US never publicly accepted responsibility for IR655. Iran promise to punish not honor or reward the guilty. MH17 any takers yet?

IronForge , Jan 11 2020 6:01 utc | 28
My Ship was headed to the Gulf on the Monday after the Friday Vincennes Incident.

I was in my Homeport in Japan that Evening. Spent Supper and Watched Music Videos at the Officers' Club. As I got off my Bike at the Pier - an Associate told me that We shot down an Iranian F-14.

We already had Skirmishes the Previous Summer with the USS Stark, which Kicked Off the Naval Convoys of Operation Earnest Will.

We know that the IRNians were harassing the Vincennes with their Gunboats. The Vincennes were told to leave the Area several times afterwards; but Disobeyed - Seeking to Destroy. The Air Warfare Team were hell bent on the Hunt, they Deluded Themselves to believe that a Hostile Aircraft was approaching. With no Comms/Responses and no one checking Commercial Flight Paths, they Shot Down the Airliner.

I confirmed this with the Officer leading the Anti Surface Team on the Vincennes that Day - when I met him during an MBA Prospective Tour at Harvard years later.

Human Error - Rushed Judgement. Now we need to see if the Aircraft did Deviate from the Path / Warnings+Comms were ongoing - and to see if it wasn't a Cover for Intel Photo Ops over the Base.

Oui , Jan 11 2020 6:03 utc | 29
The United States KNEW about the tragic event from the moment it happened. Military satellites in the sky can make sharper photo's than reporters on the ground of the crash site. The intelligence was shared with 5 Eyes plus ... incl. at least Israel and The Netherlands (PM Mark Rutte if MH-17 fame).

Why did the US keep info under wraps in the intelligence briefing to members U.S. Congress ... afterwards they specifically said there was. NO intelligence Ukraine airliner was shot down ... lots to learn for all. Not following the Putin playbook. Or other cover-ups like NATO downing an Italian passenger jet near Ithaca. Ukraine themselves have accidentally shot down a Siberian airliner by exercises above the Black Sea.

Pft , Jan 11 2020 6:41 utc | 40
Pretty hard to believe an accident this stupid. Sorry.

Could an Iranian have been turned by foreign agents to shoot down a passenger airliner, and then claim it was an accident?

Or could Iran have been enticed to make a false admission to protect Boeings reputation and/or the Ukraine airlines reputation. Perhaps a carrot of lesser severity in the new sanctions?

There is no way to know really. I suppose its simplest to just take Irans admission as truth. If US fighters were flying over Irans airspace I suppose thats an adequate defense.

Still, its hard to see it. I mean if that was the case and enemy aircraft were intruding over Irans airspace local civilian planes wouldn't have been cleared to take off by ATC because there is no way to guarantee the flight path is clear. They just wouldn't. And if they did Iran has just basically admitted how incompetent they are. I mean they knew what was coming since they launched the missiles into Iraq. They had to have a plan on if there was a retaliatory response They had to be tracking any incoming flights very carefully as potential targets. A flight taking off from Tehran cant possibly be confused as an attacker unless their air defense system and training of operators is FUBAR

I'm going back and watch Fake Wrestling. Its more believable

Peter AU1 , Jan 11 2020 9:11 utc | 72
somebody
five eyes will come at you covered in any type of sheep clothing. Australian aid to east timor, UK's white helmets, plenty of stories of CIA inserting itself into aid agencies. Operation northwoods was one scheme put forward but not carried out. Sounds like the Ukraine plane may have made a sudden turn to head back to the airport but towards a protected site without allowing time for air defences to be notified.
There may be more to this story when flight records are retrieved.
Zanon , Jan 11 2020 10:50 utc | 89
Wow,

'I wish I was dead': Senior IRGC commander accepts full responsibility for downing Ukrainian plane, apologizes to nation
https://www.rt.com/news/478011-irgc-accepts-guilt-downing/

Zanon , Jan 11 2020 10:54 utc | 91
According to the commander of the Aerospace Force of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, Amir Ali Hajizadeh, Iranian air defence systems mistook the Boeing 737 for a cruise missile. The plane was shot down with a short-range projectile, he added.
https://sputniknews.com/world/202001111078005863-iran-says-ukrainian-aircraft-brought-down-by-human-error-ap-reports/#article_item_1078007210
jiri , Jan 11 2020 10:58 utc | 92
Sounds very much like the situation with the Russian Il-20 that was brought down in Syria last year. Was someone trying to use the Ukrainian jet as a cover to attack the IRGC site?

Hostile planes in the area.

Flight 752 making an approach "positioning itself at the altitude and form of a hostile flight".

Maybe some experts will explain how common is it for an airliner to have an altitude and trajectory consistent with a hostile flight (of an attacking missile).

Apparently the plane first took on extra fuel because it was overloaded and then offloaded cargo because then it was even more overloaded. This seems illogical. What is the standard practice in these cases?

And then there was someone who was there early in the morning ready to take video of the flight.

And we had pictures of the missile fragment very soon after the crash. Someone knew what to look for and searched for it.

Remote controlled hijacking???

Many questions-few answers.

Perhaps the solution is to have a S-300 or S-400 system put in place just like Putin did after the IL-20 shootdown.


Quote from Farsnews

***
"Following threats by the criminal US president and military commanders to strike a large number of targets on the Islamic Republic of Iran's territory in case of an Iranian attack and due to the unprecedented aerial movements in the region, the Islamic Republic of Iran's Armed Forces were on highest levels of alert to respond to any possible threats," the statement said.

"In the early hours after the missile attack, military flights of the US terrorist forces increased around the country and defense units received some reports about flying objects that were moving towards the country's strategic centers as several targets appeared on radar screens which made the air defense units more sensitive," it added.

"Under such sensitive and critical circumstances, flight number 752 of the Ukrainian airline company left Imam Khomeini airport and then approached a sensitive military center after a turn, positioning itselt at the altitude and form of a hostile flight and was hit because of a human error and unintentionally under such conditions, and as a result a number of our country men and women and some foreign citizens lost their lives," it added.
****

End quote

https://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13981021000078

Jen , Jan 11 2020 11:01 utc | 93
Johwa @ 92:

My first thought on seeing the news that the Iranian military had admitted to shooting down UIA Flight PS752 was similar to yours.

By making this admission, the Iranians nip in the bud any conspiracy theories and narratives that their enemies might try to weave and convince the public around the world (and especially diaspora Iranians) insinuating their guilt, whether actual or not, in the plane crash.

Supposing the Iranians did deliberately shoot down the plane, there may be a reason why they decided to say it was an accident: such an admission not only absolves them from accusations of cold-bloodedness which might cost them the trust of their neighbours (and others beyond their neighbourhood) but also relieves them of having to explain the real reason for shooting down the plane - because that reason may very well be something involving Ukraine in a regime-change activity or operation against Iran or one of its allies.

Chechens are known to be in Ukraine, and to be fighting for and against Kiev. What other groups not normally resident in Ukraine might have arrived there in the years since Yanukovych's ousting as President in February 2014, being trained as fighters to fight in other lands that have committed the unholy sin of defying the United States and the masters Washington DC serves?

What the Iranians have done in admitting culpability is sure to displease a lot of people, not satisfy them. They sure didn't see that one coming.

somebody , Jan 11 2020 11:09 utc | 96
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 11 2020 10:51 utc | 99

I am sure they will fix the problem.

Why did the US not bother to warn other airlines ?

But shortly before the crash , the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration announced an emergency flight restriction for U.S. airlines flying over areas of Iraq and Iran. The FAA warned of the " potential for miscalculation or misidentification " of civilian planes because of increased military tensions in those areas.
Ghost Ship , Jan 11 2020 11:17 utc | 97
Iran will now be taken to the cleaners. The entire IRGC is classified by Washington as a terrorist organisation so I imagine some US vulture law firm is already looking at taking action in American courts against Iran in the full ex