Quote: "My point is that, after MI-5 (or is it MI-6? I never can remember the difference) analyze the contents, if the facts don't
match what they want them to be, then they will either (1) destroy the evidence, or (2) suppress it."
This piece is good, it provides actual radar coordinates and other data for techies
to examine. Also:
On Monday, the Russian government, with almost every major global media outlet in attendance, released all of its air traffic
data and satellite imaging data (in fact, only part of it) – all verifiable, including time stamps and supporting data.
The entire content of the presentation was also handed over to the European authorities. The conclusions to be drawn from
this are stunning, to say the least. Despite the public release of this information, US and British media outlets did report
back to its people on these findings. They are as follows:
Minutes before the downing of MH17, the plane made a mysterious 'Left Turn' as it flew over the Donetsk area
at approximately 5:20pm Moscow time, making a sharp 14km deviation, before attempting to regain its previous course before
dropping altitude disappearing from radar at 5:23pm. As we previously pointed out, air traffic controllers in Kiev had already
diverted MH17 200 miles further north into the target zone, so the question remains: was Kiev ATC also responsible for
this final, fatal diversion, or is there another reason for this unusual turn (see 'Mysterious Left Turn', below)?
According to clear satellite images provided, on July 16th, the Ukrainian Army positioned 3-4 anti-aircraft BUK M1 SAM
missile batteries close to Donetsk. These systems included full launching, loading and radio location units, located in
the immediate vicinity of the MH17 crash site. One system was placed approximately 8km northwest of Lugansk. In addition,
a radio location system for these Ukrainian Army missile batteries is situated 5km north of Donetsk. On July 17th, the
day of the incident, these batteries were moved to a position 8km south of Shahktyorsk. In addition to this, two other
radio location units are also identified in the immediate vicinity. These SAM systems had a range of 35km distance, and
From July 18th, after the downing of MH17, Kiev's BUK launchers were then moved away from the firing zone.
yalensis, yeah, it's really bad news that the black boxes were sent to the UK, particularly since the anti-Kiev fighters
had taken so much trouble to keep them out of Kiev's hands and give them over to Malaysian officials only for those officials
to hand them to one of Kiev's main ideological backers.
However, the US/UK can't be absolutely sure who else might have
a recording of the Kiev Control Tower's conversation with MH17 – just as they couldn't be absolutely sure what Russia's radar
and satellites saw – so blatant tampering may be highly risky.
Does anyone know if there are any back-up systems for the black boxes and, if so, what happened to them? I find it hard
to believe that Russia would be unaware of the risk of the black box data being manipulated and, if aware, would be inactive
in trying to head that problem off at the pass.
The black boxes are sealed for expressly the purpose of assuring investigators they are getting the raw data and that it has
not been altered prior to official inspection. They are all prominently marked "Do Not Open", and I believe they are pressurized
inside so that if one is opened the pressure will be equalized and inspectors will know it has been tampered with.
I suppose if you were really, really swept up you could discover what the internal pressure is, open it, mess with the recording
in such a seamless manner that your insertion of false data was undetectable, and then re-pressurize it and duplicate the warning
seal (unless you removed the original very carefully without tearing it, clever, clever), but that seems a lot of work
when in the present situation there is so much contrary evidence which suggests Ukraine was at fault. Why rig it so they're
to blame if they actually are?
You're right, I don't think Brits will actually TAMPER with the boxes.
My point is that, after MI-5 (or is it MI-6? I never
can remember the difference) analyze the contents, if the facts don't match what they want them to be, then they will either
(1) destroy the evidence, or (2) suppress it.
We may get some statements to the media, along the lines of, "The data was corrupted by mishandling…" or something like
Or maybe even: "The data is too sensitive, from an intelligence standpoint, to be released to the public." (falls into Official
Secrets Act, etc etc)
Well, they won't go with option B, I can promise, because what happens to a civilian airliner in a civil air corridor is a
public matter and lies completely within the public interest, besides which the west has already made it quite clear that if
any aspect of it fingers Russia they will be more than happy to disclose it.
Ergo, any cop-out like "classified for reasons
of national security" will be taken by all the reasonable adults as an admission that Ukraine is on the hook for it but its
benefactors have decided to protect it once more.
Both MI5 and MI6 are intelligence services, but MI5 works within the UK while MI6 is international on the UK's behalf.
…"They must be nuts," Joerg Forbrig, a senior program officer for central and eastern Europe at the Berlin bureau of the
German Marshall Fund of the US think tank, said. "It's a very dangerous proposal and will be seen as a provocation by the separatists
and the Russians."…
…"They must be nuts," Joerg Forbrig, a senior program officer for central and eastern Europe at the Berlin bureau of the
German Marshall Fund of the US think tank, said. "It's a very dangerous proposal and will be seen as a provocation by the separatists
and the Russians."…
…The director of the European Centre for International Political Economy in Brussels, Fredrik Erixon, warned against sending
armed teams into eastern Ukraine to search for victims.
"There's nothing normal in east Ukraine right now," Erixon said. "Small events can trigger very large reactions from the
rebels and the Russian government."…"
marknesop, July 26, 2014 at 9:26 am
I imagine the hunger to "find out what happened and bring those who did it to justice" will dry right up the closer it gets
to undeniable that the Ukrainians did it. The narrative is already drifting toward "we may never know". Convenient.
As long as we never know, world opinion will always trend toward Russia being responsible. But few ever demand that the USA
reveal the evidence which allegedly informs its confident assertions.
The State Department's insistence that Russia is shelling Ukraine across the border is an excellent example, although it would
certainly not be undeserved were it true.
Note the title: "To prevent further Russian aggression toward Ukraine and other sovereign
states in Europe and Eurasia, and for other purposes." (My bolding)
Thus we slither further towards the abyss, as if we still don't know why 1914 happened.
Here's a blast from the past:
"The King [George V], mindful of his position as a constitutional monarch, made no public declarations about the situation
in Europe in the lead-up to the conflict.
But in the newly-disclosed meeting, the King informed Sir Edward it was "absolutely essential" Britain go to war in order to
prevent Germany from achieving "complete domination of this country".
When Sir Edward said the Cabinet had yet to find a justifiable reason to enter the conflict, the King replied: "You have
got to find a reason, Grey."
At the same time, the German General Staff thought they had a 'window of opportunity', because one or two years later, France's
and Russia's military would've become too strong.
When will they – our politicians and media – ever learn?
There is much that supports it being a failed false flag, but like you, I find it hard to imagine even the cold-blooded gold-digging
self-interested pricks who run the western democracies could gamble with non-invested people's lives; even Operation Northwoods,
although it involved a provocation using an airliner, would have – if the op had ever been run – resulted in the destruction of
an empty plane. It does serve well, though, to illustrate how prevalent is propaganda in the modern western news and that everything
it tells you must be critically examined for the possibility it is a lie. It has gone from more or less 100% reporting of what
happened to more or less 100% attempted influence of perceptions and manipulation, and is not ever to be trusted.
This new reality
comports well with the impression a month ago of a determined, purposeful, steely-eyed Ukrainian citizen army going about its
business coolly and professionally as it plucks out the cancer within, to today's impression of confused peasants with straw in
their hair who just made an innocent mistake because they had too little experience to master the technology with which they had
been entrusted. The press adjusts to the discrepancy between the savage brutes on the Russian side of the border who deliberately
and with malice aforethought shot down a planeload of civilians to the confused and remorseful boys who accidentally unleashed
a catastrophe without even blinking.
The West's new policy of putting Russia on the defensive, and forcing it to abandon its traditional interests in neighbouring countries
such as Ukraine, is fuelled by showmanship rather than geopolitical calculations.
Earlier this year, Christopher Clark, author of The Sleepwalkers: How Europe Went to War in 1914, said: 'Looking at the
current crisis in Crimea, there is only one sleepwalker – Vladimir Putin.' Clark's use of the term 'sleepwalkers' is a reference
to the thoughtless manner in which political leaders of the early twentieth century took decisions that unleashed a chain of events
culminating in the First World War.
Sadly, Clark is wrong to say Putin is the only sleepwalker today. Sleepwalkers are also haunting the chancelleries and foreign
offices of Western capitals. A culture of posturing, grandstanding and playing to the media has distracted the political elites of
Europe and America from developing any kind of balanced assessment of their geopolitical interests. In recent years, showcasing interventionist
diplomacy in Libya and Syria has led to a series of blowbacks for the West. Having indirectly encouraged the emergence of a new generation
of jihadists in Syria, Western governments now turn their attentions towards destabilising the regions around Russia. The West's
new policy of putting Russia on the defensive, and forcing it to abandon its traditional interests in neighbouring countries such
as Ukraine, is fuelled by showmanship rather than geopolitical calculations. That is why time and again the EU blows hot and
cold on Russia, refraining from doing anything more than the going-through-the-motions of talking about and imposing sanctions. London
and Washington often insist that more stringent measures should be taken against Russia – but ideally by others.
But whatever the motives of the various powers is diplomatic re-enactment of the Cold War era could mutate into a more serious
conflict. Having sleepwalked into Libya and Syria, what is to stop London and Washington from doing the same thing in Ukraine? Certainly
the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 in eastern Ukraine, and the political and diplomatic reaction to that tragedy, indicates
that such an event can serve as a catalyst for turning political wrangling into a more dangerous show of force.
The speed with which the Western media and governments have assigned all blame for the MH17 tragedy to Putin suggests that
powerful institutions are unaware of the dangers of so casually escalating such a conflict. Numerous Western media outlets have
claimed that the downing of MH17 bears an uncanny resemblance to the assassination of Franz Ferdinand. Others have drawn an analogy
between MH17 and the sinking of the British passenger ship Lusitania during the First World War, which led to the entry of
America into the global conflict of 1914-1918. Many are now asking if July 2014, with the downing of MH17 and the rising tensions
in the east of Europe and elsewhere, is a repeat of July 1914, when, a few weeks after the assassination of Ferdinand, global war
As we head towards the centenary of the outbreak of the Great War, it is understandable that the tragedy of Flight MH17 is looked
upon by some as our Franz Ferdinand moment. In one sense, this tragedy does invite comparisons with the assassination of Ferdinand.
In both cases, neither the governments nor the public seemed to be aware of the ease with which diplomatic rivalry can turn into
a bloody conflict. So today it seems that the leaders of the West have not actually thought about the consequences of prodding Russia
to the point where it feels forced to react.
Dominance in world MSM is like air superiority in conventional war: it essentially determine that initial stage of the any hostile
engagement. Russia lost propaganda war over MH17 with the score 100:1. With the one being alternative Internet sites which did not bought
Washington's fairy tale. The key question: why SU-25 flied so close to Malaysian airline just before the tragedy was successfully suppressed.
These good people have stated that they have a very equipped and advanced laboratory, and it is for this reason "black boxes"
should be analysed in Great Britain (under watchful eyes of MI-6 and American special services) there. Within 24 hours you will see
the first results. It's been 48 hours. No interesting statements from Farnborough have been reported. Or give me a link.
In general it is extremely convenient for the Americans. Shoot down any plane, using somebody else hands and generally do whatever
corresponds to "defense of the USA national interests". Just don't leave too much evidence. In any case black boxes will be changed
is some Farnborough. As I wrote immediately after the disaster, there is no need for any evidence, Just switch on microphones in
controlled MSM and to put pressure on the allies to twist their hands. Something like we halped you with the "Marshall plan", now
its' your time to help us, etc. You should help ius in our Holy struggle against Evil Empire.
Oh, and here is another interesting know-how about Washington Obcom methods of operation in case of MH17. They don't want to answer
on any question presented by Russia (I explained BEFORE why this line of behaviour will be adopted, and can provide corresponding
link). The strategy is not to give any substantial official information, because it will be deliberately false and the USA can be
caught legally later. Let's use professionals from MSM to muddle the water.
In short, Washington Obcom adopted the following strategy: to produce some reports in the Internet about MH17 crash. And then
to refer to their own reports as evidence. This is kind of "news laundering", but unlike financial money laundering it does not entail
any legal responsibility. So Washington Obcom assumes a noble position "I accuse", but the burden of proving the accusation is placed
on the accused. "Let him defend himself. And while he try to counter absurd and unfair accusations, I will achieve everything I want
to archive from this tragedy in any case"
It looks like strong economic sanctions are coming from the EU as
Dutch minister made Europe re-think Russia sanctions. Previous sanctions on Iran had hurt EU economic growth, since trade is a two-way
street, helping to slow EU GDP growth to 1.3%.
These new sanctions, if enacted, might put it in negative territory. That represent distinct advantage for the US, slowing the major
Until that meeting on Tuesday, Europe had trailed the United States in imposing economic sanctions to pressure Moscow into working
to defuse the eight-month crisis in Ukraine in which hundreds of people have been killed.
Many governments were reluctant to antagonize a major energy supplier. Concern over the cost to Europe's convalescent economy
of fraying the vast network of industrial and business links with Russia also weighed heavily.
Intense lobbying by Washington, including a warning by President Barack Obama that the plane downing should be "a wake up call
for Europe", had done little to change that mentality.
But like a supportive family, EU partners rallied around the bereaved Dutch, putting national economic interests aside and for
the first time going beyond asset freezes and visa bans on individuals to envisage curbs on entire sectors of the Russian economy
that could turn the screw on President Vladimir Putin.
Gruesome images of bodies strewn across fields after the downing of flight MH17 appear to have persuaded some of the opponents
of sanctions to take a more decisive, if painful, stand against Russian detribalization of Ukraine.
The Ministry of foreign Affairs of Russia stated that introducing additional sanctions against Russia, the European Union threatened
the international cooperation in the field of security.
"Once again, by accepting Washington on the issue of additional anti-Russian sanctions, the EU has acted as a "non-commissioned
officer's widow", - is spoken in the comment of the Russian Foreign Ministry.
According to the Russian foreign Ministry, the EU took a course on the curtailing cooperation with Russia, including on issues
such as combating terrorism and organized crime.
"We are sure that such decisions will be enthusiastically embraced international terrorist international. What they failed in
the last decades, is to drive a wedge into the ranks of the international community is easily accomplished by Brussel", - continues
the Russian foreign Ministry.
The EU previously published the extended sanctions list, which included 15 persons from Russia and Ukraine, including the head
of the FSB Alexander Bortnikov, the head of the foreign intelligence Service Mikhail Fradkov, security Council Secretary Nikolai
Patrushev, Deputy Secretary of the security Council of Russia Rashid Nurgaliev, President of Chechnya Ramzan Kadyrov and the Governor
of Krasnodar region Alexander Tkachev.
The EU believes that they have played a role in undermining the territorial integrity of Ukraine. A new extension of the sanctions
was a result of the collapse under Donetsk Malaysian "Boeing".
"For the liberation of the Crimea" the Defendants in the list of banned entry to the EU countries. Their accounts in European
banks, if any, will freeze.
In total now in the "black list" of the EU are 87 physical and 20 legal persons
"At the same time the European Union finally sat down "on needle" of Washington and Kyiv fairy tales about the events taking
place in Ukraine, depriving themselves of alternative and objective source of information," says the foreign Ministry, meaning,
probably, the official position of Moscow.
In the EU explain sanctions against heads of the FSB, the SVR, and members of the security Council to the fact that they participated
in the development policy of the Russian government, threatening territorial integrity, sovereignty and independence of Ukraine".
The same wording was used against a state Duma Deputy from LDPR Mikhail Degtyarev. In addition, it is stated that he announced
the opening in Moscow of the Embassy of the self-proclaimed Donetsk national Republic.
About two regional leaders - Ramzan Kadyrov and Alexander Tkachev said that they both received a medal "For liberation of the
Crimea". In addition, it is mentioned that Kadyrov June 1, stated his readiness to send to Ukraine 74 thousand Chechen volunteers,
and Tkachev was one of the first who expressed their support to the new Crimean leadership.
Washington has claimed that Moscow is 'culpable' in the Malaysian plane crash in Ukraine, as it was Russian authorities that gave
the rebels heavy weapons and training. However, the claim was only backed up by reports in social media.
"We've seen that there
were heavy weapons moved from Russia to Ukraine, that they have moved into the hands of separatist leaders,"
said White House spokesman Josh Earnest. "And according to social media reports, those weapons include the SA-11 [Buk missile]
Once again citing "some social media reports," Earnest added that Russia trained the self-defense forces operating in
the Donetsk and Lugansk regions.
"We do know that it was an SA-11 [Buk missile] system that was in the hands of separatists that brought down the Malaysian
airliner last week. We know that Russia had been involved in training separatists to use that system."
He added that the White House also knows that the Malaysia Airlines jet was brought down by a missile that was fired from the
ground in an area "that was controlled by separatists and in an area where the Ukrainians themselves were not actually operating
anti-aircraft weapons at that time."
"So that is why we have concluded that Vladimir Putin and the Russians are culpable to this tragedy… They have been responsible
for supplying the terrorists with these -- or the separatists with these weapons."
Earnest said he could not provide the latest intelligence materials, nor speak for the US intelligence service. However, he claimed
that the US authorities have proof that Russia fired "heavy weapons" at Kiev troops.
"According to some social media reports but also to some intelligence assessments that have been released by the intelligence
community, reports that there has been firing of Russian heavy weapons from the Russian side of the border at Ukrainian military
personnel," the state department spokesperson said.
When 298 innocent people were shot out of the sky by a Russian missile 10 days ago, people everywhere finally began to understand
what is at stake in Ukraine.
Half a year ago, I was not even considering becoming president of Ukraine. But like a great many Ukrainians at the time, I was
disturbed that then-president Viktor Yanukovych constrained Ukraine's future by rejecting an association agreement with the European
Union, choosing a customs union with Moscow instead. Like so many of my countrymen, I believed that for Ukraine to become a modern
and successful country, it needed to expand its ties with the West and end widespread corruption and abuses of power. Then, the authorities
unleashed a murderous assault on demonstrators in Kiev, and Yanukovych and his partners fled to Russia, leading to Moscow's decision
to annex Crimea and support the violent separatists operating in eastern Ukraine.
Russia's behavior has only worsened since I took office in June. Over the past several weeks, Ukraine has resisted Russian aggression
and continues the fight against the Moscow-backed separatists. Russia has tested us with its transfer of cash, weapons and other
equipment to the separatists and its vast anti-Western, anti-Kiev propaganda campaign, but we will not yield to its interference
in Ukraine's sovereignty or to the violence perpetuated by terrorists.
Moscow is playing a dangerously irresponsible game. My fears of the violence spiraling out of control were confirmed July 17,
when the separatists used Russian missiles to shoot down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17. This attack on innocents should never have
happened. Like giving a handgun to a child, Moscow permitted the transfer of a highly sophisticated surface-to-air missile system
to terrorists. With such a large number of lives lost - many of them children - this was a major tragedy. Adding to the horror has
been the casual desecration of the crash site by the separatists, who have blocked access by investigators, tampered with evidence,
looted belongings and treated the dead like offal.
As president, I have laid the groundwork for peace talks with the separatists by calling for dialogue along with guarantees of
the rights of all Ukrainians. But these calls have been rejected, and Moscow continues to fan the conflict. It has always been my
goal to bring together the parties and work out solutions for all Ukrainians regardless of geography, ethnicity or language.
To help achieve these solutions, the West should begin thinking about a larger response to what has happened. As always, the United
States should take the lead. Working together with the European Union, Washington can shape a worldwide coalition of nations in support
of Ukraine to ensure that these terrorists are not able to strike again.
It is important that the United States has instituted stronger sanctions in response to Russia's aggression in my country. However,
in light of this tragedy, the United States should consider imposing even tougher and wider-reaching sectoral sanctions on Moscow.
And Europe needs to follow the lead of the United States and impose sectoral sanctions of its own.
Russia needs to know that the international community is serious. It is long past time for it to act.
In addition to broader sanctions, my country needs expedited deliveries of assistance to help us police our borders and unwind
the insurgency with minimal violence.
Even as we address the immediate threat to our country, Ukraine must attend to other pressing needs. Ukraine can use U.S. leadership
and assistance in our efforts to curtail corruption, revive our financial institutions, reform our energy policy and liberalize our
agricultural sector. Additionally, we need U.S. natural gas to shore up our energy supplies so that we cannot be blackmailed by Moscow.
We need a reliable partner and ally to help fuel our nation.
Now is the time for the international community to stand with Ukraine. To stop Russia, it will take the global community acting
in concert. My country is doing everything it can to take charge of our destiny: We are working hard to curb corruption, implement
much-needed reforms and, above all, restore the Ukrainian people's faith in their government. Working together, we will not allow
Moscow to stand in the way of creating a new open, united and prosperous Ukraine.
AUSTRALIAN investigators were among a small team to discover more human remains and a crucial new section of the MH17 wreckage
overnight, a week after the plane was shot down over eastern Ukraine.
Two Australian diplomats and a forensic expert, believed to be part of the Australian Federal Police, have joined Dutch investigators
at the Grabovo crash site where key pieces of evidence that had been previously unaccounted for have been found.
Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) spokesman Michael Bociurkiw escorted the team of 12 monitors through
the crash site overnight and confirmed that they had found more human remains.
"We saw remains yesterday and we saw one spot of remains today," he said.
They also made what Mr Bociurkiw called "an extraordinary finding", a large and previously overlooked section of the fuselage,
with windows and seats still attached.
Discovered in a wooded area more than a kilometre away from the main crash site, it is the largest intact piece of the fuselage
to be found by investigators.
Mr Bociurkiw said parts of the wreckage that the team inspected yesterday had "almost machinegun types of holes".
"The Australians are getting a sense of the security for the area, they're mapping it, they're getting a sense of where the crash
sites are," he said, adding that two or three more Australians were expected to join the inspection team today.
Well, I am still running around, but while in the car I watched some rather interesting shows on Russian TV including one called
"Politics with Peter Tolstoi" who had a bunch of interesting guests talking about the issue of MH17 shot down over Novorussia. Here
again, I got very little time, are some bullet-points of some of what they said:
1) MH17 was most likely not shot down by a Buk but by an R-60M air-to-air missile shot from a Ukie Su-25 which has a non-pressurized
cockpit (being a close air support aircraft) but whose engines can easily bring him that high up and whose pilot can breathe oxygen
through a mask. At such altitudes, however, the Su-25 is rather slow, but that lack of speed is easily compensated by the speed of
the R-60M air-to-air missile whose ideal engagement distant is 3-5km which is *exactly* how far the Su-25 was from MH17. The main
evidence that it was an R-60M missile which hit MH17 is in the radar signal which shows that the aircraft was not ripped into shreds
as would be the case with the massive warhead of the Buk SAM, and the fact that even on the ground the body of the plane does not
appear to be shredded the way a Buk warhead would.
2) The reason why the Ukie SBU immediately seized the recording of the conversations between the Kiev ATC and MH17 is because
the so-called "black boxes" ended up in Resistance hands. The reason why Holland agreed to have the British "decode" these recorders
was because they were told so by the USA. The Brits will now let the NSA falsify the data and that falsification will be coordinated
with the SBU in Kiev which will eventually release the recordings who will, surprise surprise, full "confirm" the "authenticity"
of the NSA-doctored recordings from the UK. Formally, it will be the Dutch which will announce it all in order to better hide
the US/UK role in all this.
3) Besides the Russians and the Americans, the Europeans also know what happened (I can personally confirm that I know for a fact
that several European countries have their own monitoring systems which observe everything West of the Urals. The Saker)
4) Several guests said that they believed that since the MH17 false flag is turning into a flop, the next step will be to blow
up a Ukie nuclear plant and blame Russia.
5) Banderastan has apparently signed 8 agreements with NATO to hold joint exercises in the Ukraine. Most of them are scheduled
for September 1st, the date at which Poroshenko has promised to be finished with the repression of the Donbass.
6) One guest declared that he has it from a very solid source in the USA that MH17 was planned by the USA and that the Ukies
botched the execution. The plan was for the aircraft to fall into the Rostov region of Russia.
7) One idea which was floated around again is this: to declare that unless the atrocities in the Donbass stop, Russia will recognize
the Donetsk and Lugansk Republics. The idea here is to say that IF these republics are recognized, then Russia could then do the
same as in Abkhazia and South Ossetia i.e., send in as many military forces as needed to stop the aggression. In terms of international
law, this would not be the same as breaching the borders of the Ukraine. Besides, it would mean to exactly the same for Novorussia
as the US/NATO are officially doing for the Wahabi insurgency in Syria or what the US did in Kosovo.
8) There was a consensus amongst the guests that future sanctions against Russia are absolutely inevitable simply because
the USA is dead set on this idea. However, the Russians are also sure that these sanction won't bite much and that as long as
Russia does not give the US a reason for force the EU to cut itself off the Russian energy supply no real sanctions will be applied.
9) All the guests agreed that Russian should continue to provide covert military and over political aid to Novorussia.
In other news tonight, Russian sources are reporting at least two major defeats for the Ukie forces including one near the town
of Georgievka near the Lugansk Airport (still held by the Ukies, but surrounded) were the Ukies lost 30 soliders and several armored
vehicles. The Ukie death squad "Donbass" (which is the past had already been completely wiped out twice) is again surrounded near
That's it Just wanted to update you. Now I got to hit the road again.
See you all later.
Hey I just noticed this.
Count the number of missiles on the BUK TELAR behind infamous #312 in this picture.
Yes, Ukraine deployed it with just three missiles, and its the one on the middle right missing.
Now look at the infamous video in Luhansk/Krasnodon/Krasnoarmiisk/Wherever of the BUK TELAR on its incredible adventure
Again, just three missiles, and the one on the middle right is missing.
No one is claiming Ukraine fired a BUK missile near Soledar when the first picture was taken. So apparently sometimes, these
units are not deployed with a full complement of missiles.
There is a trite saying "An absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." So just because a BUK TELAR only has three missiles
on it, this is only evidence that at the time the photo/video was taken, the unit only had three missiles. It does not tell you
if it once had a fourth, or if one missile was fired.
"A BUK missile ripping a 777 apart." is total nonsense...Got it? Saker and all the other people here, you need to stick to
the facts and some common sense to retain credibility. Judging from the pictures posted on the internet, it does seem very likely
that MH17 was hit by shrapnel. It has also been claimed that a BUK missile causes very different patterns of shrapnel damage as
compared to an air-to-air missile, and that the patterns appearing on the aircraft parts are consistent with a BUK missile.
Conclusion: The investigation will probably come to the result that it was a BUK missile that brought down MH17. This finding
will be difficult or impossible to refute. That's what this blog and all other friends of Russia need to be prepared for.
Forcefully bringing any other theories to the fore only has the potential of damaging the cause.
As of yesterday, RT carried a commentary arguing convincingly, in my opinion, that MH17, if shot down by the rebels, was legal
as a form of collateral damage in a civil war situation provided that it was not intentional. As the shoot-down most probably
was not intentional such a position is much more defensible than trying to formulate grand theories that most likely will fall
apart like a house of cards. If, but only if, proof appears that the Ukies did it, then such a finding can still be exploited
to the fullest."
These ZPC/NWO web sayanim come up with all sorts of clever ways to sell their propaganda. The message being sold in all that
"authoritative" methane is that it was a Buk missile that brought down the airliner. Any evidence of an aircraft launched missile
has to be discredited because the ZPC/NWO will not be able to manipulate that evidence to exonerate themselves. There is no way
to avoid taking the rap once it's shown it was aircraft attack that shot down the airliner.
Plan not just for downing of aircraft in cauldron, for Junta forces to be able to assist trapped forces there.
But to get opposition labelled terrorists, and have NATO go in, to set up a 'temporary' (permanent) camp right there next to
the border, so that they could seal the border permanently. This is actually a central planning feature, permanent sealing of
border. (or permeable only for the right people)
Once again re capabilities of the SU-25:
The Ukraine converted some of their SU-25's to SU-25M1, which has a ceiling of 10,000 meters.
From Wikipedia: Ukrainian Air Force modernized two types of the Su-25, one of them is Su-25M1 and Su-25UBM1.
From Wikipedia: "2 Su-25 and 1 Su-25M1 were shot down in clashes in southeast
Ukraine. One damaged and captured by pro-Russian forces. "
Until this past Monday, the downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 on July 17th, 2014, was a potential game changer for global
geopolitics and the New Cold War. However, a funny thing happened on the way to the Kremlin…
In this report, we will lay out the facts based on a wide breadth of available information and data surrounding MH17. We will
also present and give critique to Washington and Kiev's "mountain of evidence" that has saturated US and European-based media coverage
since the incident took place. 21WIRE has compiled this report with the help of many contributors and references from English-speaking
media, as well as material translated from Russian and Ukrainian media sources, along with other historical references to provide
context. Our objective is to get as close to the truth as possible. Although many revelations will appear to be self-evident, we
still encourage the public to draw there own conclusions regarding this pivotal event.
As we will clearly demonstrate, the only wild conspiracy theories being pushed right now, are those coming out of
the US State Department, and the government in Kiev, Ukraine, which are being repeated by CNN, BBC, FOX-NewsCorp, ABC, CBS and NBC…
The Brink of War
Last Monday morning was not a pleasant one for the US State Department. Russian officials surprised Washington and its NATO partners
when it released all available satellite imagery and air traffic control data which was recorded in and around the final minutes
of Flight MH17 – and presented it to the world media on live television. The data painted a very different picture, drawing contrasting
conclusions to what Washington and Kiev officials had been disseminating via western media since July 17th. Following their presentation,
Moscow handed its findings – air traffic data and time stamped satellite imagery – to European authorities. We will review those
findings in detail later in this report. In stark contrast, US officials have been reluctant to do the same. Is Washington willing
to share any object data or evidence to the public, or is it only interested in sharing that which somehow fits into the same predetermined
narrative it stood by on July 17th, one which already assigned guilt to both rebel fighters in eastern Ukraine and Russia?
We hope that political leaders and media organizations in the US and Europe will take the time to consider all available information,
rather than simply repeat and spin what is bouncing around the media echo chamber. It's also crucial to understand the geopolitical
context in which this incident has occurred in order to discover who really possessed the motive, and the means to destroy this passenger
aircraft, and which parties stand to benefit most from such an international incident.
After reviewing the evidence, all indicators points to the downing of MH17 as a highly coordinated, but failed
false flag event.
MH17: A Doomed Flight Path
A Malaysian Airlines spokesman has already confirmed that, for some unknown reason, Kiev-based Ukrainian Air Traffic
Control (ATC) ordered MH17 off of its original flight path along the international air route, known as L980.
Most likely, this order was given to pilots while MH17 was still in Polish air space. L980 is one of the most popular and most
congested air routes in the world, as well as a key link between major international hubs in Europe, like London Heathrow, Amsterdam
Schiphol, and Frankfurt, and Asian destinations, like Singapore, Mumbai, Hong Kong and Kuala Lumpur.
As MH17 moved into Ukrainian air space, it was moved by ATC Kiev approximately 200 miles north – putting it on a new course, heading
directly into a war zone, a well-know dangerous area by now – one that's hosted a number of downed military craft over the previous
Robert Mark, a commercial pilot and editor of Aviation International News Safety magazine, confirmed
that most Malaysia Airlines flights from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur would normally travel along a route significantly further south
than the route MH17 was diverted onto. Data on all airline flight records can be found
The BBC reported on July 17th: "Ukraine's
SBU security service has confiscated recordings of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control officers and the crew of the
doomed airliner, a source in Kiev has told Interfax news agency."
Independent investigators are worried that ATC audio records of the MH17 flight appear to have been confiscated by the Kiev government.
No reason has been given for this loss of transparency, but not a word from Washington regarding this cover-up of crucial evidence.
Did this order to change the flight path come from the Ukrainian authorities? Was the pilot instructed to change course? To be
sure, the order to change the flight path did not come from Eurocontrol, but rather from ATC in Kiev.
Clue: British media run interference by conjuring a "Storm"
Soon after the incident, British news outlets began floating the story - without evidence, that MH17 was diverted to "avoid thunderstorms
in southern Ukraine". This was also placed on
Wikipedia at the same time. Nico Voorbach, who is Dutch, is president of the
European Cockpit Association, and was the man used to nudge
out this talking point. Voorbach casually slides this crucial fabrication out there, telling The Guardian of all papers,
""I heard that MH17 was diverting from some showers as there were thunderclouds".
The only problem is that Malaysian Airlines immediately refuted this in a report from
"MAS operations director Captain Izham Ismail has also refuted claims that heavy weather led to MH17 changing
its flight plan.
"There were no reports from the pilot to suggest that this was the case," Izham said.
What is significant, however, is that the Western media acknowledged that the change in the flight path did occur, and the that
"heavy weather" narrative is a fabrication.
"The route over Ukrainian airspace where the incident occurred is commonly used for Europe to Asia flights. A flight from
a different carrier was on the same route at the time of the MH17 incident, as were a number of other flights from other carriers
in the days and weeks before. Eurocontrol maintains records of all flights across European airspace, including those across
"What this statement confirms is that the MH17 's "usual flight path" was similar to the flight paths of some 150 international
flights which cross Eastern Ukraine on a daily basis. According to Malaysian Airlines "The usual flight route [across the
sea of Azov] was earlier declared safe by the International Civil Aviation Organisation. The International Air Transportation
Association has stated that the airspace the aircraft was traversing was not subject to restrictions (that approved
flight path is indicated in the maps below)."
The regular flight path of MH17 (and other international flights) over a period of ten days prior to July 17th ( day of
the disaster), crossing Eastern Ukraine in a southeasterly direction is across the Sea of Azov.
Times of India reported this: "Minutes before the crash caused by a missile strike, the AI pilots had also heard the controller
give the Malaysian aircraft MH17 what is called "a direct routing". This permits an aircraft to fly straight, instead of tracking
the regular route which is generally a zig-zag track that goes from one ground-based navigation aid or way point to another. "Direct
routing saves fuel and time and is preferred by pilots. In this case, it proved fatal," said an airline source."
UPDATE TBC:A number of bloggers have reported that the past flights on
FlightAware were changed
between July 24-25th, the new "old flights" were placed over the Donetsk People's Republic instead of the flights going further south.
This does not jibe with what was reported last week by researcher
Vagelis Karmiros using data from
flight-tracking website Flightaware and published on a number established sites like
Stay tuned here for updates.
The fatal event occurred somewhere in the interval between 17:21:28 and 17:22:30
Moscow Time.The exact time of the crash is believed to be at 5:23pm. The last available geographic coordinates can be
found here on Flight Radar24: Weather and Visibility Factor
Kiev-based air traffic controllers not only led MH17 right over its alleged 'target zone' in Eastern Ukraine's Donetsk
region, but also helped make it visible.
Although weather data online is all but unavailable for the area of Donetsk, Ukraine for July 17th, conditions are evident by
numerous videos depicting the crash and crash site in the aftermath - it was cloudy and overcast, with more visibility above the
cloud canopy. This factor is important because at its cruising altitude of 33,000 feet (10,000 meters), the airliner would not be
visible from the ground in the rebel-held area where Washington is insisting a SAM missile was launched. Why Kiev air traffic controllers
order MH17 to suddenly drop its altitude, from 35,000 feet to 33,000 feet, just before the plane's demise is unknown for sure, but
it would have been near impossible for the alleged rebel gunman occupying this relatively small rebel-held patch of land to make
a visual sighting of MH17 and acquire the target during the 1-2 minute window they would have had (assuming they were even in possession
of the BUK missile system).
Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was cruising just 1,000 feet above restricted airspacewhen it was struck by a
missile in Ukraine's Donetsk region, according to aviation and intelligence officials.
To date, Kiev has refused to acknowledge or explain why the plane was moved into position in this way. Moreover, Interfax news agency
reported that Ukraine's SBU security service confiscated recordings of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control officers
and the crew immediately after the incident.
The probability that this is all an 'unfortunate coincidence' reduces to
near zero when one considers the air traffic data and Kiev's denial of the close proximity of its Ukrainian SU-25 fighter jet in
pursuit of MH17 minutes before the crash (see 'Aircraft in the Vicinity' below).
Small Rebel Target Window
Much has been made by the US and its media of MH17 being shot down and crashing in "the rebel-held area", but
few are aware of just how small the said area actually is. The Ukrainian military had already isolated the rebel area which Kiev
and Washington insist a rebel-controlled BUK SAM missile battery had fired on the passenger jet. The actual size of this rebel-held
patch is only 40-50 miles wide, with MH17 approaching on a southeastern route over Horlivka, the frontline of this
rebel-held zone, towards Snezhnoye (Snizhne). Cruising at 58o mph (933 kmph), MH17 would have only been visible for a very short
time – just over 1 minute (if Kiev had not ordered MH17 to alter its course and altitude then it would not have been visible at all),
from the vantage point of the alleged rebel firing position. According the
Jane's Defense, the alleged cluprit – an SA-11 (NATO code
name) or 'BUK' missile system, requires 5 minutes set-up active targeting, followed by an additional 22 seconds 'reaction time' for
target acquisition and firing. As the MH17 was only visible for 70 seconds above this rebel-held area surrounding Grabovo, unless
the alleged rebel firing position was specifically tracking MH17 long before it entered the rebel-held airspace and could
distinguish it from other military civilian aircraft also in the general vicinity, Washington's theory and Kiev's accusation – that
rebels shot down this aircraft becomes even weaker.
Considering these factors, the probability increases greatly that targeting MH17 would have had to be premeditated far in advance
of the 70 seconds it was visible above this particular rebel-held area.
Russian Satellite Data and Public Presentation
On Monday, the Russian government, with almost every major global media outlet in attendance, released all of its air traffic
data and satellite imaging data (in fact, only part of it) – all verifiable, including time stamps and supporting data. The entire
content of the presentation was also handed over to the European authorities. The conclusions to be drawn from this are stunning,
to say the least. Despite the public release of this information, US and British media outlets did report back to its people on these
findings. They are as follows:
Minutes before the downing of MH17, the plane made a mysterious 'Left Turn' as it flew over the Donetsk areaat approximately 5:20pm Moscow time, making a sharp 14km deviation, before attempting to regain its previous course before
dropping altitude disappearing from radar at 5:23pm. As we previously pointed out, air traffic controllers in Kiev had already diverted
MH17 200 miles further north into the target zone, so the question remains: was Kiev ATC also responsible for this final, fatal diversion,
or is there another reason for this unusual turn (see 'Mysterious Left Turn', below)?
According to clear satellite images provided, on July 16th, the Ukrainian Army positioned 3-4 anti-aircraft BUK M1 SAM
missile batteries close to Donetsk. These systems included full launching, loading and radio location units, located in
the immediate vicinity of the MH17 crash site. One system was placed approximately 8km northwest of Lugansk. In addition, a radio
location system for these Ukrainian Army missile batteries is situated 5km north of Donetsk. On July 17th, the day of the incident,
these batteries were moved to a position 8km south of Shahktyorsk. In addition to this, two other radio location
units are also identified in the immediate vicinity. These SAM systems had a range of 35km distance, and 25km altitude.
From July 18th, after the downing of MH17, Kiev's BUK launchers were then moved away from the firing zone.
Unlike rebel fighters, the Ukrainian military is in possession of some 27 BUK missile systems capable of bringing down
high-flying jets, and forensic satellite imagery places at least 3 of their launchers in the Donetsk region on the day of this tragedy.
Yet, Washington and NATO will not inquire about the possibility that any of these system had targeted MH17.
Watch the official video here:
This is a definitive smoking gun: why did the Ukrainian Army move these short-range anti-aircraft SAM missile
batteries into position on July 16-17th – to an interior region of East Ukraine where it's known that the rebel resistance
possess no air crafts whatsoever? Not surprisingly, both the US and Kiev have not answered that difficult question, perhaps for obvious
In addition, the Ukrainian Army's radio location traffic near Donetsk peaked on the 16th and 17th, including a total of 9 separate
radio location systems active. On the 18th and 19th of July, radio location traffic from these stations dropped sharply, down to
4 stations. If, as Washington/Kiev claims, rebels fired a BUK missile at MH17, then the rebel radar location signals would be clearly
noted and verifiable on the day; only, they are not.
All Aircraft in the Vicinity
Between 5pm-6pm Moscow Time on July 17th, the following aircraft have been identified in the general vicinity of MH17
on its course heading to its fatal destination of Grabovo:
1. Boeing 772 – traveling southeast from Copenhagen to Singapore at 5:17pm
2. Boeing 778 – traveling southeast from Paris to Taipei at 5:24pm
3. Boeing 778 – traveling northwest from Delhi to Birmingham circa 5:20pm
4. Boeing 777 – Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 at 5:17pm 5. Su-25 Ukrainian Fighter Jet appears on radar, trailing MH17 at same altitude, est. 4km behind it at 5:21pm
Note: the pilots and passengers of Singapore Airlines Flight SIA351were close enough to have
visually observed, at high altitude, the demise of MH17.
At 5:20pm MH17 began to abruptly lose speed, eventually slowing to 124mph (200kmph). At this time, a Ukrainian Su-25 fighter
jet appears on ATC radar and trailing MH17 on the same flight path approximately 2-3km behind MH17, and at the same altitude
– only minutes before MH17 disappeared on radar. The Su-25 would not have been visible on ATC radar before it broke the ATC long-range
standby radar tracking ceiling of 5km in altitude. Civilian ATC radar would not be able to identify this Su-25 as military because
no secondary detection system is mounted – typical for military aircraft. Note also that the Su-25 is armed with air-to-air missiles
with a range of 5km-12km. Over the next four minutes, the Ukrainian fighter remained in the area.
Another Smoking Gun: Kiev government officials insisted on July 17th that, "No military aircraft were available
in the region". Based on available data detailed above, this appears to be a lie, indicating that a cover-up was taking place.
Again, it's important to note here that at the moment when MH17 was allegedly was hit for the first time, at around 5:23pm Moscow
time, the passenger jet was also within the range of several Ukrainian BUK batteries deployed close to Donetsk and as well as the
Ukrainian Army's BUK system positioned on the day just 8km south of Shakhterskoye, only a few miles from the eventual
crash site at Grabovo.
IMAGE: A Ukrainian military Su-25 fighter jet carries air-to-air missiles.
MH17′s Mysterious Left Turn
On passing glance, this seemingly minor, yet unexplained event doesn't appear to be significant, but as is often the case, the
devil is in the detail.
Again, was Kiev ATC also responsible for MH17′s final and fatal diversion from its course, or is there another reason for what
appears to be an evasive maneuver?
One very real possibility for MH17 losing being diverted 14km to the left is that its GPS or navigation system was being jammed.
US-NATO forces happened to be conducting an electronic warfare exercise in the Black Sea on July 17th (see 'SEA BREEZE 2014′, below).
In addition to this possibility, all Boeing jets (except Germany's Lufthansa fleet) are equipped with a remote override that can
be accessed by authorities in certain foreign countries, one being the United States. Although not publicly acknowledged until recently,
Boeing Uninterruptible Autopilot (BUAP) systems have been standard since the late 1990′s, apparently designed to take control of
a commercial aircraft away from the pilot or flight crew, chiefly in the event of a terrorist incident.
Another possible explanation for this crucial event in the timeline is that MH17 was hit, or damaged, taking an emergency 180º
left turn for 14km, before disappearing completely off of radar. This appears to be the case. On July 23rd,
Anna-News published an interview with retired Russian Air Force colonel
Aleksand Zhilin (Александр Жилин) a frequent military commentator on Ukraine's Civil War.
"According to the colonel, at 16:19:45 (local time, and 5:19pm Moscow time), a Ukrainian jet fighter targeted the Boeing
with anair-to-air missileR-60. The missile damaged the right engine of the Boeing. The
Boeing was hit, but still managed to stay in the air. However, in doing so, the Boeing turned 180 degrees to the left. It was at
this moment that the false flag attack started falling apart. According to Zhilin, part of the plan controlled by the US with Ukrainian
hands executing it was to have the Boeing crash past the southern frontline by the Ukrainian-Russian border. Had the Boeing fallen
there, securing the crash sites with the troops in response to international pressure was on top of all else effectively to allow
Kiev to lift the encirclement of its brigades (currently pinned down by rebels) in the southern pocket by the Russian border."
"When, however, the Boeing started to turn in the opposite direction and was still apparently manageable, the US-Ukrainian
headquarters of the special operation panicked and ordered the Buk battery to destroy the plane in the air in order to pre-empt the
possibility of the Boeing's emergency landing. A Buk missile was fired and the plane was then finally destroyed."
21WIRE spoke to former Czech diplomat and political analyst, Vladimir Suchan, who puts Zhilin's comments into context
of what was happening militarily at the time of the crash. Suchan explains, "If MH17 was hit right over the frontline over Snezhnoye,
this would have placed the timing and location of the intended downing and crash site to either the territory controlled by the Ukrainian
army, or much closer to the border between Russia and Ukraine where the "securing of the site" would allow lifting the strategic
encirclement of the Ukrainian troops in the south and thus, on top of other objectives, saving Kiev's armed forces from its first
major military defeat." (see 'Military All-Out Offense' section below)
If, indeed MH17 was struck by an air-to-air missile at that
time, a distress call may have been sent to Kiev ATC, but as yet, Kiev officials may be reluctant to share, or release the entirety
of its communications from July 17th.
At the time of this report being filed at 21WIRE, a second source to verify this testimony is not presently available.
Zhilin's account certainly makes sense when placed next to all ATC and satellite data released by Moscow. However,
flight recorder information and data from MH17′s black boxes would certainly be able to corroborate this timeline of events, and
one hopes that Great Britain's predetermined political stance against Russia does not prevent Downing Street, or MI5 Intelligence
Services from releasing the black box information in its entirety and more importantly, a full and unedited disclosure to the media.
More than likely, the BBC will have first access to this release, and how the BBC report their findings will be very telling.
This account is also consistent with the location of key pieces of wreckage scattered over the wider crash site radius. It shows
M17 turning back on itself, after being struck initially. If this was the final path, then it completely disapproves the US (US State
Department) conspiracy theory that a rebel-controlled BUK missile hit the plane head-on from Snezhnoye (Snizhne).
This U-turn then also helps explain why Kiev's first "leaked conversation of the rebels" (see 'Kiev's Botch Social Media Audio' below)
tried to place the rebel's BUK battery at a completely different location in Debaltzevo, a few kilometers northwest
of the main crash site at Grabovo. However, that would not explain the U-turn, which they tried so much to conceal – for it points
to the Ukrainian jet fighter.
As part of their PR damage-control exercise, Washington released this Google Map-style graphic on Tuesday July 22nd, illustrating
its theory that the rebel missile battery was now located in Snezhnoye:
Incredibly, Washington's latest evidence/theory, depicted above, put their alleged rebel firing position in an entirely new spot
– at Snezhnoye, and this now contradicts other 'social media' items being held-up by John Kerry and President Obama in their "mountain
of evidence" (see 'More Falsified and Sloppy 'Evidence' Supplied by SBU', below).
The irony of this somehow escaped US State Dept. Deputy Spokesperson, Marie Harf during her globally televised
'intelligence' briefing on Tuesday (see 'US Now in Full Retreat and Damage-Control Mode', below).
Almost certainly, the US government already has a comprehensive communications, satellite and radar data set which could either
corroborate, or disprove what Russia has released. The fact that Washington only has this Google graphic to offer to the public indicates
that what it has… may not be what it wants.
Whistleblower: A Spanish Air Traffic Controller in Kiev
All evidence pointing to a Ukrainian Su-25 fighter jet in the same frame as MH17, also validates the testimony of 'Carlos',
an ATC contractor in Kiev.
received information from an air traffic controller (Borispol Airport) in Kiev on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17:
"This Kiev air traffic controller is a citizen of Spain and was working in the Ukraine. He was taken off duty as a civil air-traffic
controller along with other foreigners immediately after a Malaysia Airlines passenger aircraft was shot down over the Eastern Ukraine
killing 295 passengers and crew on board. The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military
sources in Kiev, that the Ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became
clear a passenger jet was shot down. Military air traffic controllers in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved,
and some military chatter said they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from. Obviously it happened after
a series of errors, since the very same plane was escorted by two Ukrainian fighter jets until 3 minutes before it disappeared from
Again, real mounting evidence which points to an obvious cover-up by Kiev and its NATO partners.
CSI: Flight MH17
Crime scene investigation is important, although reports to date from the crash site in Grabovo do not inspire very much confidence
that a thorough and independent forensic investigation will be carried out, or that the chain of custody for evidence is being observed.
The key evidence would be ballistics, including pieces of shrapnel retrieved from the wreckage. It should be easy to determine if
they came from any of the following:
1. A bomb on board (this is still a possibility). 2. An air-to-air missile. 3. A surface-to-air missile.
After that, the autopsy of the bodies would reveal additional evidence about what really took place on July 17th. A present, the
majority of the remains are being handled by the Netherlands government, and given their NATO involvement to date
in the Ukrainian conflict, it's debatable whether or not they would present any findings which do not square with Washington and
Kiev's narrow, yet ever-evolving narrative of the incident.
Finally, if MH17 was indeed shot down as a false flag provocation of war by either a Ukrainian SU-25 fighter, or a Ukrainian Army
BUK SAM – or both, as much of the hard evidence suggests, then would Malaysia declare war on the Ukraine? Would
the UN table a resolution backing sanctions against Ukrainian officials in Kiev for their role in this international war crime?
US-NATO's Military Drill in the Black Sea Ended on July 17th
Russia's Satellite Data and Public Presentation on Monday July 21st has put Washington on its back foot. The existence of this
intelligence, now made public, along with other data in Russia's possession, means that the Washington cannot show the real intelligence
– which they too have. It's no coincidence that US and NATO conducted a large-scale military and intelligence drill in the Black
Sea just south of Crimea named, SEA BREEZE 2014, which just so happened to end on… July 17th. The drill
included hundreds of US military specialists running 'war simulations' in electronic warfare, data collection from a spy satellite,
and 'monitoring' of all passenger aircraft flying in the region. A massive drill – yet another improbable coincidence.
Another smoking gun: Is it a coincidence that the US had its new experimental satellite positioned over Eastern
Europe for 1-2 hours, and directly over Donetsk in eastern Ukraine from 5:06pm – 5:21pm. Taking this fact into consideration,
alongside the other improbable 'coincidences', leads to an almost certain conclusion.
In addition to SEA BREEZE, both US and British armed forces had also scheduled a concurrent military exercise, code named,
Rapid Trident 2014, a NATO event which takes place annually in and around the Ukraine, designed to "promote regional
stability and security, strengthen partnership capacity and foster trust while improving interoperability between the land forces
of Ukraine, and NATO and partner nations," according to the US Forces in Europe website. Since March, the Pentagon has kept quiet
regarding the number of US forces, and hardware assets expected to participate in the maneuvers.
According to US Army spokesman Col. Steven Warren,Rapid Trident is the only Ukraine military exercise
the US planned to participate in this year, and it's main purpose was, "To help the Ukrainian military improve its troops
and weapons operability with NATO forces."
Ukrainian Military All-Out Offensive Timed For July 18th
Three uncomfortable realities in Kiev were prevailing before the downing of MH17 on July 17th.
First, the troops were losing morale, and suffering defections and other serious set-backs in an increasingly
unpopular military theater of Eastern Ukraine. Kiev was losing the PR war hearts and minds in the Ukraine and abroad.
After the downing of MH17, Kiev garnered huge public sympathy and support, and just so happened to launch a massive offensive
on July 18th, one which military analysts believe would have to have been planned many weeks in advance – and could not just be a
knee-jerk reaction to the MH17 tragedy as government spokespersons in Kiev insist.
Secondly, they were losing the war. Behind the lines battle reports from
Igor Strelkov's blog at the time confirms this all-out
offensive at Snezhnoye by the Kiev military planners against the People's Republics of Donetsk and Lugansk – allowing
the Ukrainian Army to penetrate deeper and deeper, in effect splitting Donetsk and Lugansk.
"In this regard, it is also very plausible that some hope was put on having the command of Novororrysia paralyzed, busy and distracted
over MH17. By all accounts, both the timing and location of the MH17 crash, has enabled a huge 'game changer' in
terms of how this conflict was previously going."
If the international community were indeed to connect the prospect of a false flag attack on MH17 with the false flag attack by
Maidan snipers back in February, and the attempted false flag attack with the Odessa massacre, perhaps the Ukrainian Civil War could
be abated, for the right reasons.
As the US media juggernaut rolls ahead, there is still no sign of either Washington, London or Brussels admitting that their partners
in Kiev are massacring civilians in a brutal civil war…
Disturbing reports are also coming in about the Ukrainian Military dropping White Phosphorus on civilian targets
this week, as forces continue bombarding areas surrounding of Lugansk. Here are two unconfirmed videos, possible evidence of unconventional
chemical weapons being deployed over several locations near Lugansk People's Republic of Novorossia, from July 20-21, 2014:
Thirdly, Kiev is going broke trying to fund what appears to be an ethnic cleansing campaign in eastern Ukraine.
Sources from the Parliamentary budget office in Kiev
now confirm that as of August 1st, Kiev can't pay its military (who are, in fact, waging war against its own people and calingl it
"To continue the anti-terrorist operation in eastern Ukraine, it is necessary to amend the state budget and to find additional
sources of its content. We do not have money to pay at least a cash security to our military from August", stated Ukraine's Finance
Minister Oleksandr Shlapak, speaking in Parliament this week. According to Shlapak, funds previously provided by
the state budget for these purposes has been calculated for the period prior to July 1st, and continued operations will require additional
funds totaling 9 billion UAH ($1 billion). Infighting has already begun, as MP's are now blaming the Ministry of
Defense and army staff for corruption and looting of money.
In the wake of the MH17 disaster, US and its NATO allies are responding with a renewed call for more military aid to Kiev and
to fast-track the Ukraine's membership into Washington's overseas military surrogate, NATO. As an emergency response to "secure the
crash site", NATO stalwart,
The Netherlands, are weighing
up deploying NATO troops into the middle of this war zone. Such a move could easily cascade into something much worse should
another bizarre "accident" occur, or some tragedy befalls Dutch troops inserted into the hot zone.
Russian President Vladimir Putin has responded with strong words of condemnation, stating, "No matter what
our Western counterparts tell us, we can see what's going on. As it stands, NATO is blatantly building up its forces in Eastern Europe,
including the Black Sea and the Baltic Sea areas. Its operational and combat training activities are gaining in scale."
the US push Kiev eastwards to fight Washington's proxy war against Russia, the political and financial situation in Kiev is rapidly
Watch as a fist fight break out this week between Washington's new Neofascist partners during a Parliament session
His resignation indicates that 'Yatz' may be falling out of favor with central planning in Washington, and a sign of chaos still
to come in the halls of Kiev's Parliament.
Made-up 'Evidence' From Washington and Kiev
The talking point shift by the US media on Tuesday July 22nd was an obvious reaction to the Russian data dump. US media
are now airing Washington DC's revised conspiracy theories. Theory 1) "The rebels shot MH17 down by mistake", and
Theory 2) "Russia is responsible for creating the conditions for this tragedy". In reality, no evidence actually exists to date, other than anecdotal, that the rebels in the east possess
any 'BUK' surface-to-air missile systems (see Washington and Kiev's 'BUK' Missile Evidence Debunked', below).
Close observers of Washington DC's media blitz can only be left with a feeling of embarrassment, as the US State Department still
clings to some semblance of continuity in the face of a total PR meltdown. As late as July 22nd, the US State Department was still
attempting to pass-off its 'evidence' from social media (Twitter and YouTube), and backed-up by what it claims is "common sense",
that "clearly indicates Ukrainian militia shot down MH17″.
Since the incident on July 17th, the Kiev regime and US State Department have built their case against Rebels in eastern Ukraine
and Moscow, and even Vladimire Putin himself, on the following items, which have all been thoroughly discredited by now:
1. The audio "tapes" issued by Kiev 2. A video and photos of BUK missile batteries issued by Kiev (of their own BUK missile batteries) 3. Claims by Kiev and supported by the West, that Ukraine had "no military aircraft in the air" at the time of the crash
of the MH17 plane.
July 22nd, the Ukrainian President PetroPoroshenko (photo, left) was forced to change Kiev's story
- a damage-control exercise to the overwhelming evidence against Ukraine. He has since reversed this position.
Suchan explains the western political media machine and its all-out effort to cast Russia and Putin as international pariahs over
"What has been thus established is that Ukraine, as well as the US, the EU, NATO, and other Western countries, have been systematically
and grossly lying about evidence pertaining to the tragedy of MH17, thus willfully – and bluntly, abusing the tragedy and the demise
of the victims and the suffering of their families for perverse political goals related to NATO expansionism and anti-Russian hysteria,
and 'Russophobia', in order to support an openly fascist regime in Kiev, whose objective is the deliberate destruction of civilians
and civilian infrastructure in east Ukraine."
"The smearing campaign has also been used to demonize and criminalize anti-fascism and its resistance to a fascist dictatorship
in Kiev, enrolled by Ukraine's criminal oligarchs."
Washington and Kiev's 'BUK' Missile Evidence Debunked
Immediately after the MH17 crash event on July 17th, the Ukrainian government in Kiev quickly uploaded a brief YouTube
video it purported to be 'evidence' of "a 'BUK' missile system being moved" out of a rebel-held area near Donetsk.
US State Department officials, and every US media outlet, led by CNN, FOX, ABC, NBC and CBS, along with major US talk radio hosts
like Sean Hannity, immediately jumped on this 5 second YouTube video claiming it was, "Irrefutable proof that a Russian-made BUK
missile system was being moved away after it shot down MH17″. That talking point began to cascade from media, and into public chatter.
It seemed their job was all but done.
Murdoch's News Corporation newspaper , The Sun, always ready to take any pro-war line to the extreme, led the 'conflict
pornography' on news stands, intentionally inciting fear and jingoism, doing what it always does: nudge British working class readers
in a predetermined direction and fuse public opinion among differing classes on divisive international issues. No surprise then,
as The Sun ran, "Putin's Missile" as its headline the next morning. Similar covers and headlines were cloned
across US and British media. Within hours of the news breaking – and despite this blanket coverage, not one of these newspapers or
TV broadcasters offered any real evidence outside of anecdotal and wild speculation and conjectural theories.
Once again, we've witnessed world's most powerful, highly coordinated and synchronized propaganda machine. Once it's set in motion,
most western consumers are helpless to fend off it's relentless repeating and universal coverage across hundreds of media outlets
owned in most part by 5 US, and 2 British corporations.
A similar attempt was made by Washington and London last September, when US Secretary of State John Kerry, along
with then British Foreign Secretary William Hague, presented their now infamous claim of 'open source evidence'
(YouTube videos) used to assign blame to the Syrian government for a chemical weapons attack against its own people.
Many of the photos and videos were later proven to be faked
and staged, and
was made in Britain, and that 'chemical attack' was in fact staged by Syrian insurgents still being supported by the US-British-Saudi-Qatari
Washington's initial 'BUK Missile' social media evidence seems to be rapidly heading down the same memory hole
as its Syria predecessor, and soon, it will not be mentioned again by any US official. The speed at which it was released after the
crash, and the fact that falsified audio, video, and photos have been intentionally released by the Kiev government in the wake of
such a tragedy, demonstrates a clear motive to deceive the public about who is to blame for the MH17 event – using falsified evidence
to build a case against 'pro-Russian separatists' and Moscow, and even Russian President Vladimir Putin himself.
What is obvious, but not being discussed in mainstream western circles, is that like Syria, Washington and its NATO allies have
been openly conducting a proxy war in the Ukraine, and have managed to control media coverage in the west so that what clearly a
Civil War in the Ukraine – is being cynically, and very wrongly labeled as an "anti-terror operation". On a daily
basis, the Ukrainian Military are carrying out attacks on civilian targets all over Eastern Ukraine, killing thousands of its own
innocent citizens with the full logistical and financial backing of the Washington and NATO. In Syria, the tables are reversed, where
the government in Damascus is clearly fighting against known al Qaeda and ISIS-linked foreign terrorists brigades, as Washington
and London politicians and media insist on calling it a 'civil war'. Both are classic proxy wars being waged by the NATO block of
More Falsified and Sloppy 'Evidence' Supplied by SBU Defense Ministry in Kiev
Let's start with the famous 5 second YouTube video released by Kiev and lauded by Washington, CNN, ABC, FOX et all, of a BUK missile
battery being moved, we were told, secretly by rebels out of the area after the plane crash.
Not only does signage clearly visible in the video place this truck in Krasnoarmeysk – a town which
has been in control of the Ukrainian Army since May 11th. Here is one early news release of the now discredited video.
In the absence of any real evidence or data, it's worth asking who has paid large sums of money to create a 3-D computer
animation sequences, of what the US/Kiev governments claim look place?
In addition to falsified YouTube video,
Kiev also published falsified photos
of an alleged BUK missile system on July 19th. Kiev's Security Service (SBU)
published photos online
it claimed showed 'Russia' secretly withdrawing a BUK-M system from the Ukraine civil war zone, but shortly after publishing this
article the photos in question were deleted. The photo released by Kiev was actually an image taken of its own military's
BUK missiles – ironically, our readers will find that Kiev showing photos of its own systems is much closer to the real
story than we previously thought.
Somewhat haphazardly, Kiev's SBU, which is overseen by the new CIA station occupying the top floor in the same building in Kiev,
released two more videos meant to assign blame to rebels in Donetsk, with Kiev claiming these were of Russian-made BUK-M being transported
back to Russia on July 18th after the crash – but both videos were clearly shot during the winter time, with one found to
have been previously published in March. Again, more intentional lying by Kiev, in order to assign blame to 'pro-Russian Separatists',
Kiev's Botched Social Media 'Audio Clips'
Early on, Washington and the entire western media machine, made much of two audio 'tapes' released via YouTube by Kiev
officials, alleged to be taken from conversations between 'pro-Russian separatist' rebel commanders.
Both Kiev and Washington held these up as 'evidence' of rebels using a BUK SAM missile system to shoot down MH17. The
only problem here, is that both 'tapes' contradict each other regarding the location of the alleged missile batteries.
Vladimir Suchan points out the obvious, "The identification of the direction of the blast then also disproves
the junta's videos with "leaked conversations" from yesterday and today–for the missile could not then be launched either from
Debaltzevo, or Donetsk, as claimed on both tapes -these places were by then a bit far, and not
in front of MH17. That's also evidently why, today the junta's sites are claiming that the BUK missile battery was supposed to be
in Snezhnoye, forgetting all about their first tape leak with commander 'Bes' from Gorlovka (40 miles north-west).
If the Ukrainian Army used a BUK missile, then it would most likely have been fired from north of Amvrosivka, which is a place of
a large concentration of Ukrainian troops. It is also southwest of Torez and Snezhnoye in the proximity of which the crash site is
located. BUK missiles have a range of up to 20 miles. Enough for a battery in the Amvrosivka region."
"The only problem is that there is absolutely no way to confirm who "Major" and "Grek"
are, and considering the entire Ukraine civil war has been merely one provocation and counter-provocation after another, explicitly
staged in advance by either the CIA on the side of Kiev or the Kremlin on the Russian side, one does have to wonder whether the said
two "smoking gun" participants aren't merely two random people speaking Russian and reading off a script?
The clip concludes with another unnamed "Militant" who supposedly is speaking to Mykola Kozitsyn, one of
the purported leaders of the Cossacks operating in east Ukraine. The Militant makes it clear to Kozitsyn that it is not a military
plane and has "Malaysian Airlines" written on the side. One wonders just where one could find such writing on the side of the crashed
and exploded fuselage but that one is for the forensics to decide."
In addition, multiple independent analysis's of these audio recordings also reveals that these audio recordings were not integral
files, indicating they were spliced together, as is evident from the different time stamp dates visible from the raw audio data.
It also reveals at least one portion was recorded, or edited on July 16th – before the crash of MH17.
ITAR-TASS Agency confirms this:
"The tape's second
fragment consists of three pieces but was presented as a single audio recording. However, a spectral and time analysis has showed
that the dialog was cut into pieces and then assembled. Short pauses in the tape are very indicative: the audio file has preserved
time marks which show that the dialog was assembled from various episodes, the expert said. The tape's linguistic analysis also shows
that those who made the faked tape clearly did not have enough material and time, the expert said. That is why, speech fragments
can hardly correlate with each other in terms of their sense and the spectral picture of audio materials also differs, the expert
said. But the most indicative moment is that the audio tape clearly shows that it was created almost a day before the airliner crash,
the expert said."
Only one conclusion can be drawn here: these tapes were faked, and released after the crash in order to assign blame on rebels and
Russia for this event.
In addition to this, video production on both Kiev 'tapes' matches a previous YouTube video – same graphics style and editing,
which was previously proven to be another fake. Interestingly, Ukrainian producers used the same actor, an alleged Cossack rebel
commander, Mykola Kozitsyn, in their MH17 audio production.
Zero Hedge also reveals: "Finally, we clearly have no way of authenticating the recording or the participants, it was just over
a month ago, on June 5, when in another attempt to cast blame and discredit the separatists, Ukraine released another trademark
YouTube clip seeking to disparage and frame Kozitsyn, entitled "Russian
Cossack Formations are Responsible For Chaos In Ukraine."
In summary, multiple falsified information releases by Kiev government officials only points to one conclusion: a cover-up.
By contrast, Russia officials have not released or promoted any falsified or fraudulent 'evidence' used to assign blame to any parties
– instead Moscow released all of its verifiable data surrounding the incident which has now forced Washington to rethink its wild
approach which previously tried to pin responsibility on Russia itself…
IMAGE: President Obama and John Kerry unable to settle on a version of events (Photo:
Up until now, Washington has been able to give its support to openly fascist and racists political parties and militants
in western Ukraine, but as Kiev's brutal civil war wages on, world media and more historically-minded members of Europe may eventually
revolt against this risky marriage of convenience.
US Now in Full Retreat and Damage-Control Mode
Amazingly, in a US State Department briefing led by Deputy Spokesperson Marie Harf on Tuesday July 22nd, Harf
insisted that, yes, US intelligence officials still include these 'social media' posts as part of what Secretary of State John Kerry
describes as a "mountain of evidence".
Obviously under great pressure to show strength in the face of a complete collapse in confidence, Harf (photo, below) could be
seen stuttering and twitching nervously as difficult questions were raised by members of the media.
#MARIE HARF: Under President Obama, State Department spokespersons have become 'political activists'.
In one of the biggest flops in State Dept. history, Harf appeared so desperate to shed any further questions on 'social media
evidence', that she opted for a fatal gaff - stating on record that "US intelligence officials have authenticated
the audio". Unless she means they've authenticated these as fake, this statement may come back to haunt US officials.
Many are now calling it a bold-faced lie, designed to cover-up the mishandling and over-politicization of posts found on social media,
shamelessly used by Washington to promote a war agenda.
As a result, CNN and others are now scavenging the tragedy, trying to hide the emerging facts under the heap of its "fair
and balanced" mainstream conspiracy theories. The story has now shifted from what happened, to how US politicians are dealing with
the crisis, as was evident after one major outlet who ran this headline, "Obama: What exactly are they trying to
On Tuesday, the US government finally admitted (as well as it could), that it had been bluffing about its 'certainty'
that Russia was behind the downing of Malaysian Air Flight MH-17.
Washington's New Conspiracy Theory
In a damage control exercise this past Tuesday, Washington invited members of the majors like the Washington Post and the LA Times,
to an 'intelligence update' briefing, and a press conference run by the inexperienced MarieHarf.
The Los Angeles
Times reported: "U.S. intelligence agencies have so far been unable to determine the nationalities or identities of the crew
that launched the missile. U.S. officials said it was possible the SA-11 [anti-aircraft missile] was launched by a defector from
the Ukrainian military who was trained to use similar missile systems."
The quiet U-turn by Washington signals that its previous case blaming the rebels has been destroyed, and rather than concede that
the Ukrainian Army has actually shot down MH17, they've chosen to instead concoct a new revision about a "rogue defector" and his
"rogue team" who happen to be wearing Ukrainian Army uniforms.
Washington's new and creative official conspiracy theories now include:
1. Ukrainian separatists shot down plane by mistake after misreading 'fuzzy' radar images on a much-too sophisticated
AS-11 system (as if US intelligence officials were actually there), probably mistook the airliner for a Ukrainian military plane
(reverting to their original line). 2. Missile that brought down Malaysian jet probably fired by 'ill-trained crew' of pro-Russian rebels
The "ill-trained crew" theory is the work of one U.S. official who, "requested anonymity because he was not authorized
to speak publicly on the issue". And who could blame him?
Finally, Washington ends up at a place it knows well – reducing a major geopolitical event or crime down to the work of a
lone wolf, or in this case, a 'rogue defector' from the Ukrainian Army, an image which will no doubt fuel even
more wild commentary by Wolf Blitzer, Anderson Cooper, George Stephanopoulos and Sean Hannity.
American investigative reporter Robert Parry (who broke many of the Iran-Contra scandal for AP and Newsweek in
the 80′s) published this on
Consortium News, July
20th (based on his CIA source):
"What I've been told by one source, who has provided accurate information on similar matters in the past, is that
U.S. intelligence agencies do have detailed satellite images of the likely missile battery that launched the fateful missile, but
the battery appears to have been under the control of Ukrainian government troops dressed in what look like Ukrainian uniforms."
This account is fully consistent with 1) the "anonymous US intelligence officers' briefing from US mainstream media on Tuesday
July 22," as reported, 2) the briefing by the Russian Ministry of Defense on July 21 and, 3)
analysis previously covered.
Backpedaling even further, Washington has officially downgraded its overall indictment, with another 'senior intelligence official'
announcing a brand new party line – a weaker thesis, somehow claiming that, "Russia created the conditions for this to happen".
More Western Media Manipulation
London's media arms have also sprung into action in an attempt to reinforce Washington-NATO-Kiev Axis assignment of guilt. In
a classic demonstration of its pro-Foreign Office institutional bias,
Shawn Walker carefully attempts to contain the western guilty verdict, considering only 'pro-Russian rebels' and
intentionally reinforcing the 'Rebel-BUK conspiracy theory'.
Walker states, "Claims by pro-Russia separatists in east
Ukraine that they have never been in possession of the missile launcher apparently
used to down flight MH17 are looking increasingly flimsy, as several witnesses told the Guardian they had seen what appeared to be
a Buk missile launcher in the vicinity of the crash site last Thursday.
The sightings back up a number of photographs and videos posted online that put the Buk system close to the crash site on the
day of the disaster. Just before lunchtime last Thursday, prior to the Malaysia Airlines plane's takeoff, a Buk was driven through
Gagarin Street, one of the central thoroughfares of Torez, witnesses said."
The Guardian could very well be relaying genuine eyewitness accounts here, but only advanced media watchers will have noticed
the slight of hand being applied here: Walker has ruled out any other possible suspects other than rebels – skillfully hiding his
paper's bias in reporting by pouring evidence collected into a pre-determined verdict. If the Guardian were not applying an institutional
(British Foreign Office pre-determined conclusion) bias, then its editor would have combined the eyewitness accounts to the clear
satellite photographic evidence provided by the Russian authorities, and it doesn't take a genius to figure out who was really in
possession of these surface-to-air missile systems – the Ukrainian military.
Official US Plan to Destroy Civilian Aircraft for Diplomatic Gain
The first official known plan to fake the destruction of a civilian aircraft was drafted by the US Pentagon in 1962. A former
NSA analyst at
Strategic Culture reports:
"The use of commercial passenger planes as false flag targets of opportunity for U.S. national security and intelligence planners
is nothing new. The U.S. National Archives yielded an explosive formerly classified document some five months before
the 9/11 attack in 2001. The document, "Justification for U.S. Military Intervention in Cuba", outlined for Secretary of Defense
Robert McNamara, a series of false flag attacks, code named OPERATION NORTHWOODS, which would be carried out by
the United States on various targets but be blamed on the Fidel Castro government of Cuba. Dated March 13, 1962, the Top Secret NORTHWOODS
document was prepared by America's top covert Special Operations officer, General Edward Lansdale."
"The NORTHWOODS plans called for the sinking of a boatload of Cuban refugees en route from Cuba to U.S. shores, blowing up an
American ship in Cuban waters, and more importantly in light of the recent downing of Malaysian Airlines flight 17 over eastern Ukraine,
faking a Cuban Air Force attack on a civilian jetliner.
Lansdale and his NORTHWOODS planners concluded that the U.S. invasion of Cuba would receive wide support as a result of
an outraged public. The document states: "World opinion and the United Nations forum should be favorably affected by developing the
international image of Cuban government as rash and irresponsible, and as an alarming and unpredictable threat to the peace of the
Most certainly, this blueprint by US intelligence is mirrored today in 2014, as the US and its NATO member allies (and media assets
in tow) using totally synchronized messaging – dominated by wild speculation, hyperbole and hysteria characterizing the rebels in
the east of Ukraine as terrorists, Russia as the enemy, and President Vladimir Putin as 'the personification of evil' for American
and British media consumers.
The world can only pray, that the truth may prevail.
I think I now have details on the shoot down of the 777 that pin everything in place.
A poster at militaryphotos has noted that the the distance from the missile origin point in Snizhne to the last known position
of the Malaysian airliner is over 26 km (http://i.imgur.com/qqCWE1n.jpg).
Note that this is not the transponder last call location which is much farther west but the actual shoot down point. The problem
is that the older 9M38 Buk missile has a range of 25 km (http://www.military-today.com/missiles/buk.htm,
they say 20.5 km but that is an obvious typo given the ceiling of 25 km). So it is not physically possible for some rebel Buk
in Snizhne (Snezhnoye) to have taken out a target at 11 km altitude and 26 km away even if all the pieces were there and it was
operated by professionals.
On the other hand, though…
There is that eye-witness account (from the woman watching on the ground – video in comment above) that the plane TURNED AROUND
180 degrees in the air after being shot.
I agree that, given the fallability of human memory, eye-witness evidence should not be given very high value if more scientific
sources are available. But still, assuming it MIGHT be an accurate observation from the eye-witness, and by the way, this is Zhilin's
theory too: That the plane was rocketed by the accompaying Uke jet fighter, then turned around 180 degrees, I guess desperately
trying to fly back to Kharkiv or somewhere to make an emergency landing. And then was finished off by the BUK from the ground.
If this theory has any merit, then:
-The pin in the map showing "last recorded position" in Rozsypne would not necessarily be correct, as that position is calculated
from the theory that the plane travelled West to East at a steady rate until it was shot down by something not more than 25 km
-On the other hand, if the plane was further East than we thought (and then turned around just before being finished off by the
BUK), it could theoretically have been within the 25 km radius from Snizhne. It could have been travelling WEST when it finally
crashed down just north ofTorez.
In conclusion: Whether or not this case can be cracked depends a lot on the "turn-around" theory, because that invalidates
a lot of the math that was done on the assumption of plane flying West to East at a steady acceleration.
I am not dismissing the theory you describe. But the information I have found and posted is enough to refute the US official claim
as to what transpired. BTW, the turnaround would not necessarily involve a long flight distance and the regime Buk positions west
of Torez would still be the most likely source of any Buk missile hit.
21st Century Wire is presently arguing that it is a failed false flag. I know that geopolitics is a rotten game, but I hope they
are wrong. That would be too cruel. (I still think that Ria Novosti got a serious tip-off…)
To Fern, can't we quickly agree that Maria M is not the sharpest axe in the shed. (By the way, I think that VVP is seriously bright.
But he has to be very careful.)
This piece is good, it provides actual radar coordinates and other data for techies to examine. Also:
On Monday, the Russian government, with almost every major global media outlet in attendance, released all of its air traffic
data and satellite imaging data (in fact, only part of it) – all verifiable, including time stamps and supporting data. The
entire content of the presentation was also handed over to the European authorities. The conclusions to be drawn from this
are stunning, to say the least. Despite the public release of this information, US and British media outlets did report back
to its people on these findings. They are as follows:
Minutes before the downing of MH17, the plane made a mysterious 'Left Turn' as it flew over the Donetsk area at approximately
5:20pm Moscow time, making a sharp 14km deviation, before attempting to regain its previous course before dropping altitude
disappearing from radar at 5:23pm. As we previously pointed out, air traffic controllers in Kiev had already diverted MH17
200 miles further north into the target zone, so the question remains: was Kiev ATC also responsible for this final, fatal
diversion, or is there another reason for this unusual turn (see 'Mysterious Left Turn', below)?
According to clear satellite images provided, on July 16th, the Ukrainian Army positioned 3-4 anti-aircraft BUK M1 SAM missile
batteries close to Donetsk. These systems included full launching, loading and radio location units, located in the immediate
vicinity of the MH17 crash site. One system was placed approximately 8km northwest of Lugansk. In addition, a radio location
system for these Ukrainian Army missile batteries is situated 5km north of Donetsk. On July 17th, the day of the incident,
these batteries were moved to a position 8km south of Shahktyorsk. In addition to this, two other radio location units are
also identified in the immediate vicinity. These SAM systems had a range of 35km distance, and 25km altitude.
From July 18th, after the downing of MH17, Kiev's BUK launchers were then moved away from the firing zone.
This seems to me a pretty slam-dunk case for "Ukropy dunnit"
everybody should read the entire piece, it is really good and goes into detail on all the talking points and evidence brought
in so far.
It reminded me that Ukies initially claimed the "rebel BUK" came from Debaltsevo (that was those initial "wiretaps supposedly
of rebel conversations), and then changed their story to the current "Sneznoe" locations, which also has problems.
When somebody keeps changing their story, that might be a good sign that they are lying.
I think the black box will actually prove or disprove the case; but, unfortunately, that black box is in the hands of British
government; if it shows something they don't want to see, they will probably destroy the evidence.
yalensis, yeah, it's really bad news that the black boxes were sent to the UK, particularly since the anti-Kiev fighters had
taken so much trouble to keep them out of Kiev's hands and give them over to Malaysian officials only for those officials to hand
them to one of Kiev's main ideological backers. However, the US/UK can't be absolutely sure who else might have a recording of
the Kiev Control Tower's conversation with MH17 – just as they couldn't be absolutely sure what Russia's radar and satellites
saw – so blatant tampering may be highly risky. Does anyone know if there are any back-up systems for the black boxes and, if
so, what happened to them? I find it hard to believe that Russia would be unaware of the risk of the black box data being manipulated
and, if aware, would be inactive in trying to head that problem off at the pass.
21stCenturyWire.com's analysis is an excellent one. However one question remains: why target a Malaysian Airlines jet and not
any other, especially as news is now out that an Air India Dreamliner passenger jet on its way to Birmingham from Delhi was less
than 25 km (90 seconds away) from the Boeing at the time of the shoot-down.
If the Kyivsters needed to bring a plane down so as to force or nudge the US or NATO to send peacekeepers to the intended area
near the Ukraine-Russia border, they could have shot down the Air India jet or other jets passing through Dnepropetrovsk's air
space. (Singapore Airlines also had a jet flying nearby.) The Air India plane would have been an ideal target: think of the propaganda
mileage the US and Kyiv could derive from saying Russia had hit an Indian plane, and pressure could be placed on India to cut
any political, economic and military ties with Russia. India would have to withdraw its support for the new BRICS bank.
Ah – they tried to cover all their options to make it a credible "terrorists soot down plane" story: the plane should've 'looked'
like a Ukie plane, it should crash close to the Russian border, therefore it should fly from West to East.
Thus a plane flying East to West wouldn't provide a 'reason' for the "terrorists" to shoot down, because they would supposedly
not shoot at a plane coming from Russia. The junta also hoped to get NATO into it, given that the Netherlands are a NATO member
which India isn't, and I assume they knew that many Dutch people were on board. They probably also hoped that India would be properly
horrified because, for the fascist junta, Malaysians and Indians are all the same: some brown people, probably also 'untermenschen',
thus nothing but collateral damage.
Who knows – it might simply have been rank stupidity.
Yeah, like colliemum says, the Indian airliner was flying in the "wrong" direction: It was flying East to West. I think the point
was to get a bird to fall in or near the "cauldron area" of the borerlands. Based on speed and distance, in order to get the Indian
plane to fall into the "correct" area, Ukropy would have to shoot at it while it was still in Russia. And that would not fit with
And by the way, I think it is really time for people to take a second look at that infamous "July 16″ timestamp
on the first of the Ukrainian-released "tapes for the prosecution". That was the tape (with a file-creation stamp of July 16)
in which insurgents supposedly "admitted" to firing off a BUK from the area of Debaltsevo. (Which story Ukies are now back-tracking
from and saying the BUK came from Snezhnoe.)
Granted that a computer timestamp is not definitive proof, but it is one fact to pile on with all the others; It is starting to
look pretty clear that the criminals DID plan this whole thing in advance, and July 16 could well have been the day when they
set the scheme in motion. Then all the predator had to do was just wait for the best opportunity and the appropriate victim to
For their scheme to work, Ukropy basically needed a West-to-East flight to be brought down in the "correct" spot. I don't think
there was anything special about the Malaysian flight other than that. Malaysians are just an unlucky people, they just picked
the short straw, that's all. There was an element of randomness.
Ohh, those Cameron's poodles... More or less honest report was removed due to " due to structural defects and incomplete compliance
editorial values of the British broadcasting Corporation". Textbook example of British hypocrisy. I especially like how this pressitute
states: "The history of the downed airliner extremely complex and multifaceted, and we cover it from different sides."
As I promised in his blog on Thursday, we modified the report of correspondent of Russian service of BBC Olga Ivshina, which
on Wednesday was removed from our site.
Before I noted that the original material was removed due to structural defects and incomplete compliance editorial values
of the British broadcasting Corporation. And not for the reason, which willingly told Russian media that BBC, they say, did
not want to broadcast alternative perspective on disaster Malaysian "Boeing".
You can see that we leave in the report the elements, which, according to our critics, we would like to remove -- the opinions
of the ordinary residents of Donbass and search our film crew of the place from which the missle was possibly launched (if it was
This material has been enriched by the fragments, which, in our opinion, it was lacked and that gave the story the volume of the
added context of the content of what people say, located in the center of events. I mean the statement of the official representative
of Kiev on that fateful day over the area of the tragedy in the air was not Ukrainian military aircraft. And expert opinion
about how likely is the use by the military pilots of civil aircraft as a "flying shields".
BBC is not engaged in self-censorship, and expects that its journalists ask questions. Including inconvenient for users.
In revising the plot we almost did not use scissors. The only item that was cut out, is the statement of the head of counter-intelligence
of the security service of Ukraine Vitaly Nayda. Because it was not about what Olga investigated . But interviews of Nayda on our
site left - Click here.
The history of the downed airliner extremely complex and multifaceted, and we cover it from different sides.
To make mistakes is painful and unpleasant. But doing them, we recognize. And in this case we apologized not once, but twice: first,
that the original report was published in haste; secondly, because we have not explained to you why it was removed once we made this
And then we have tried these errors be corrected in a transparent manner. I'm not sure there's a lot of media that are ready to
do the same.
P.S. After the publication of my blog on Thursday, we received a huge number of comments. I am very pleased how attentively you
read our site and thank everybody who voted. Some of you have asked where you can read the statement about mentioned editorial values
BBC. Here they are in English; Click and
here they are in Russian.
VS, 25 July 2014 - 19:40 GMT
Why continue this hypocritical blabbing. Everything is already clear to everybody
Yuri, 25 July 2014 - 21:43 GMT
Sawed-off is a part of the story were the locals testify in favor of the official version of the Russian Federation. Censorship
Vasily, 25 July 2014 - 21:57 GMT
You have rather poor military aviation expert.
The maximum speed of the SU-25 : 950 km/h (with norms. combat load)
Cruising speed: 750 km/h
Speed of the passenger airliner about 800 km/H.
that mean that have approximately the same speed.
Version of the crash Malaysian Boeing 777 under Donetsk, different from all previous versions published Russian RIA Novosti. Moreover,
it is not even a version of the Agency, which refers to the source... as a person who serves in the law enforcement agencies of Ukraine.
According to the source, the incident is the result of a tragic accident that occurred during the traning of the Ukrainian anti-aircraft
Of course, we must realize that information war between Ukraine and Russia is in full swing now, and it is conducted with
the participation of the third countries. For example, the USA. That reports that the parties advance often do not correspond to
reality and often is not an information but pure propaganda in one form or another. However, we think that in such resonant case,
as the collapse of the Malaysian Boeing, all versions.should be fully introduced and investigated
So, what RIA Novosti reported?
"In the day of disaster Malaysian liner on Ukraine's air defense units of the Ukrainian armed forces carried out a training of
removing the system lock key, the emergency situation occurred. It could be a cause of the tragedy with Boeing", reports the Russian
news Agency, referring, as noted above, for the information of the source in one of the law enforcement agencies of Ukraine.
The Agency reminds that Boeing flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, crashed on July 17 in Donetsk region. Onboard the liner
there were 298 people, they all died. The Kyiv authorities have accused militias, while milicia claims that they do not have the
air defence complexes which could bring down the plane at this altitude.
"on July 17, the commander of the 156-th of anti-aircraft missile regiment was ordered to conduct a training of combat crews
which provides cover for ground forces in the outskirts of Donetsk. That trining included deployment of divisions, to work out the
following of targets and to complete the whole algorithm for folloing and subseunt mock destruction of the targt with the missile
Buk-M1" told the source.
According to him, despite the fact that the commanders of batteries were issued unlock keys to conduct missile launches, real
rocket launch of the rocket 9M38M1 was not planned.
"To participate in the training two su-25 were sent to Dnepropetrovsk from air base Kulbakino of 229 tactical aviation brigade
in Mykolaiv. They were tasked to conduct aerial reconnaissance and designate targets in the area of focus groups ATO West of Donetsk",
- the source said.
"After the entrance of one of the aircraft in the detection zone Buk" it was followed by one combat crew's battery, located
at the settlement Zaramensky. Apparently, according to a tragic accident after some time the routes of flights Malaysian Boeing and
su-25, despite the difference in levels, coincided, merged on the screen in one major point that was fatal to the civil airliner
as at time of convergence of tragectories the system is automatically continued to follow the one with larget radar footprint",
- he said.
The source was unable to explain the cause of unauthorized missile launch. "At 8:20 PM SBU people detailed the commander of the
battery with the crew", - he explained, adding that does not have data on the how SBU investigating this case.
"Since 2001 after the tragedy with the Russian Tu-154 above the Black sea on all practical exercises involving "Books" were prohibited.
Accordingly, the servicemen have only practice maintenance of the complex and driving skills," he said a source in the security Ministry,
stressing that this is his personal opinion.
The Agency reminds that during the exercises of the air defense of Ukraine in 2001 missile system s-200 shot down a Russian passenger
plane Tu-154, following the route tel Aviv-Novosibirsk. Killed 78 people, of them 66 passengers, most of whom were Israeli citizens,
and 12 crew members. Courts in Ukraine refused to admit involvement in the tragedy of the Ukrainian military.
It is interesting, that the answer to this law enforcement agencies of Ukraine? We can assume that in any case, even if the above
proves true, the recognition will not. This, unfortunately, the world practice: stand, lie to the end, but don't tell us now that
you killed innocent civilians! Do all countries. So neither Ukraine nor Russia confessions should not wait. But hand on heart, it
should acknowledged that the press conference of the Ministry of defense of Russia, was the only one at which objective technical
data monitoring flight of Boeing were presented. And it remains still the only one, at which some details of the incident were officially
disclosed. Neither Ukraine nor the US, unfortunately, presented anything similar to the world. Which we all want to happen.
Moreover, the US constantly hinting that they have data at their disposal. Hinting but remain completely silent...
We had an AWACS conducting missions in NATO airspace over Poland & Romania
more than 500nm from the #MH17 crash position. They were only able to track
MH17 until 1300zulu when it flew over the eastern area of Kiew.
FYI: While the total number of aviators can vary for a specific task, it
isn't anywhere near 50 or 60 people. A full aircrew for the E-3A Sentry
consist of a flight crew (2 pilots, 1 navigator & 1 flight engineer) and a
mission crew (1 tactical director, 1 fighter allocator officer, 2 weapons
controllers, 1 passive controller, 1 surveillance controller, 2
surveillance operators, 1 communications technician, 1 radar technician & 1
For more information about each aircrew position…
Prepper Nurse says:
July 22, 2014 at 2:41 pm
Oh my word….at the very least they know who's responsible, and if it was
the Russians they would be shouting it to the roof tops. And if it's not
the rebels, but the Ukrainian government they are at the very least lying
by omission, not wanting to out an ally. Thank you for posting!
After all the propaganda about the downed MH17 flight, screams about alleged looting and demands of access to the site, one would
have expected some serious attempts to immediately investigate the case.
At the field in Ukraine where the exploded remnants landed, there are no guards and no recovery workers, no police officers and
no investigators. Early Thursday evening, there were almost no people - just two curious 12-year-old girls looking at part of
the tail of the Boeing 777.
"There's no one out here," said Michael Bociurkiw, a spokesman for the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, whose
monitoring mission has been on the site every day since Friday. As for the arrival of international experts, "it's not like our
door is being broken down."
After the U.S. blustering "we have evidence" that Russia did it and then showing nothing of it - "just trust us" - the U.S. seems
have lost all interests to really find out who's ammunition downed the plane. Russia had early on called for an international investigation
and it was Russia alone so far which
evidence on the case. U.S. ships with very capable missile defense radars were in the Black Sea over the last weeks and likely
have very detailed track records of every flight and missile launch up to several hundred of miles away. None of those have been
made public. We can guess why.
And those "looting" claims?
There were a few new faces at the site on Thursday. Three Australian investigators worked in the field, joining three Malaysians.
Before departing Thursday, the Malaysians said that they were surprised at the amount of access they had to the site and that
they felt safe, Mr. Bociurkiw said.
There have been widespread reports of looting, but Mr. Bociurkiw said his monitoring group, which has now spent more time at
the site than any other, had not seen any. The Malaysians said they had seen valuables in the fields untouched, he noted, including
a bottle of duty-free perfume, auto parts, backpacks full of belongings, a watch and some jewelry.
Those claims of looting were false just as the claims of mishandling the remains of the victims were false.
But the White House will not take back one any of those false claims. It continues its anti-Russia campaign is coming up with
for which again no facts are presented to back them up:
American officials, citing military intelligence, including satellite images, warned that Russia appeared to be preparing to arm
the rebels with more high-powered weaponry - including tanks and armored vehicles - than it had previously supplied. In Kiev, a military
spokesman said that Ukrainian troops were coming under increased fire from the Russian side of the border and that the Ukrainian
military had recently shot down three Russian surveillance drones. One was used to target a Ukrainian base near the town of Amvrosiivka,
which then quickly came under heavy rocket attack, the spokesman said.
Again these are just claims. Not one of the "satellite images"
cited was presented.
But the main stream media fall for such nonsense and market it without inserting even the least bit of doubt.
Clearly the powers who be do want a war with Russia. A cold one for now but a hot one, destroying Europe's production capacities,
would even be better for rather tepid U.S. economy.
thanks b.. yes this seems to be the way the western media operates. be the vehicle for whatever some us or western official
has to say without substance( just infer substance) and then when it looks like the plane was shoot down during some ongoing military
exercise with ukraine and the usa/nato - make like it is over and nothing happened as it was the wrong side responsible for the
death of these innocent people.. we are being lied to regularly, but the thing i find most discouraging is this.. someone, or
a number of people know what happened here and they ain't saying as it implicates them..
If the byline for all this Yankee-inspired anti-Putin hokum were allowed to just write itself from the lexicon of public opinion,
it would look something like this... New American Century descends into Dog Day Afternoon farce.
This a pattern that we've been frozen in since April. Kiev/U.S. make some outlandish claim that is dutifully waved through
to the front page of the Western press. This in order to stampede Europe into applying sector-wide sanctions. Merkel makes noises
that real stinging stuff is coming down the pike that will make Putin's oligarchs feel real pain. And then nothing ever materials.
The problem is the clocking is ticking in Kiev. Eventually the IMF diktats will have to be put into effect. Then the troops
will have to be brought back from Novorossiya to police the Maidan. That's why Kiev/U.S. is upping the ante with MH17 and now
stories that the Pentagon is dusting off its war plans for Russia.
IMO, that the US is changing the subject away from MH17 likely means that the US knows (i.e. has hard evidence of) who did
the shooting, and it wasn't the Donbass rebels or Russia. When the truth finally comes out, the US will say "Who cares about MH17?
Look at all the other evil things the Russkies are doing!" And if that fails, they'll find something else to distract the rubes.
"Look over there! Ebola!"
The US media has really stepped up its lying over the events in Ukraine, and to a level it seems to me far advanced of
how it pushed even the so-called Arab Spring. "Oh what a tangled web we weave" certainly is the case here. and it will be
that much more difficult for the US to extract itself when the Ukraine Crisis finally reaches it climax...
Don Bacon #6. What was interesting about the Harf press conference where she announced that Russia was shelling Ukrainian positions
in Donbas was the reaction of the reporters. They grilled her awhile for the evidence. Then they began mocking her. One even asked
if she would at least give them a youtube link supporting the story. This question was a snide reference to the youtube link she
provided in an earlier press conference that showed the rebels with a SA6 battery. She started to get pissed by the end of these
The reporters working these stories know they are being fed bullshit. Their papers leave that part out.
Here are some more clues from Pepe Escobar courtesy of the Saker blog. The fingerprints of Mossad, known for past horrendous misdeed,
might be appearing -
"The damaged MH17 starboard jet engine suggests a shape charge from an air-to-air missile – and not a Buk;
that's consistent with the Russian Ministry of Defense presentation graphically highlighting an Ukrainian SU-25 shadowing MH17.
Increasingly, the Buk scenario – hysterically peddled by the Empire of Chaos – is being discarded. Not to mention, again, that
not a single eyewitness saw the very graphic, thick missile trace that would have been clearly visible had a Buk been used."
Way beyond the established fact of a Ukrainian SU-25 trailing MH17, plenty of unanswered questions remain, some involving a
murky security procedure at Amsterdam's Schiphol airport – where security is operated by ICTS, an Israeli company based in The
Netherlands and founded by former officers from the Israeli Shin Bet intel agency. And then there is the unexplained presence
of "foreign" advisors in Kiev's control tower.
Despite the conclusion by US intelligence that there is no evidence of Russian involvement in the destruction of the Malaysian
airliner and all lives onboard, Washington is escalating the crisis and shepherding it toward war.
Twenty-two US senators have introduced into the 113th Congress, Second Session, a bill, S.2277, "To prevent further Russian
aggression toward Ukraine and other sovereign states in Europe and Eurasia, and for other purposes."https://beta.congress.gov/113/bills/s2277/BILLS-113s2277is.pdf
The bill is before the Committee on Foreign Relations.
Note that prior to any evidence of any Russian aggression, there are already 22 senators lined up in behalf of preventing
further Russian aggression.
It is written that after some BUK batteries arrived into the Donetsk area a few days prior to the event, a training campaign
for the BUK crews was planned and implemented (as the crews were untrained). To be closer to the reality, a couple of Ukrainian
Su-25 flew over from the Nikolaev and Dnepropetrovsk area to simulate the real targets that the ground crews should train with.
Everything should have been "real", except for after "pressing the launch button" the missile should not be ignited and the whole
BUK complex should remain in a simulation mode. A version to be investigated in detail implies that the ground crew of a particular
BUK complex deployed near the village/town of Zaroschenskoye (south of Shakhtersk, close to the line between the rebels and the
regulars) indeed acquired one of Su-25 as a target and the system started followed him. The ill-fated 777 was flying above Su-25
entering into the beam cone of the BUK radar. Then for unknown reasons the missile was launched (some experts say it indeed may
happen if the system hardware was not duly reconfigured – AV) and since that radar cross section of 777 is much higher than that
of Su-25, the missile chased the MH17. System wise, having two angular variables identical for both planes should not be enough,
as there always is the third one – range. Was it because just the wrong plane was selected by the operator, or maybe the range
channel did not work properly is difficult to say.
Again, could well be another piece of disinformation, but the whole situation is very similar to what happened in 2001 when the
Ukrainian army was training in Crimea and hit (with S-200) the Tu-154 flying over the Black Sea coming from Israel to Siberia.
Moreover, in 2001 the S-200 operators had enough time to realise that the missile was kept flying for much longer time and distance
than to the target and could issue a self-destruction command (but did not do that probably being not trained/attentive enough).
Here, the ground operator obviously did not have enough time to divert/destruct the missile.
& this from the Guardian
The Guardian: To mock President Putin's pride and test his paranoia is folly The downing of flight MH17 was clearly an accident. This tragedy should not be used as an excuse to punish Russia.
It is written that after some BUK batteries arrived into the Donetsk area a few days prior to the event, a training campaign
for the BUK crews was planned and implemented (as the crews were untrained). To be closer to the reality, a couple of Ukrainian
Su-25 flew over from the Nikolaev and Dnepropetrovsk area to simulate the real targets that the ground crews should train with.
Everything should have been "real", except for after "pressing the launch button" the missile should not be ignited and the whole
BUK complex should remain in a simulation mode.
A version to be investigated in detail implies that the ground crew of a particular BUK complex deployed near the village/town
of Zaroschenskoye (south of Shakhtersk, close to the line between the rebels and the regulars) indeed acquired one of Su-25
as a target and the system started followed him.
The ill-fated 777 was flying above Su-25 entering into the beam cone of the BUK radar. Then for unknown reasons the missile
was launched (some experts say it indeed may happen if the system hardware was not duly reconfigured – AV) and since that radar
cross section of 777 is much higher than that of Su-25, the missile chased the MH17.
System wise, having two angular variables identical for both planes should not be enough, as there always is the third one
– range. Was it because just the wrong plane was selected by the operator, or maybe the range channel did not work properly is
difficult to say.
Again, could well be another piece of disinformation, but the whole situation is very similar to what happened in 2001 when the
Ukrainian army was training in Crimea and hit (with S-200) the Tu-154 flying over the Black Sea coming from Israel to Siberia.
Moreover, in 2001 the S-200 operators had enough time to realise that the missile was kept flying for much longer time and
distance than to the target and could issue a self-destruction command (but did not do that probably being not trained/attentive
enough). Here, the ground operator obviously did not have enough time to divert/destruct the missile.
A system mix up during a Ukrainian air defense units' rocket launch exercise could be the cause of the Malaysia Airlines crash
in southeast Ukraine, a source from one of the Ukrainian defense departments told RIA Novosti.
"On July 17 the commanding officer of 156th Anti-Aircraft Regiment was instructed to conduct a training exercise of ground troops
stationed near Donetsk, which involved deploying the troops, and carrying out a routine tracking and destroying of targets with the
Buk-M1 missile," the source said.
The source added that the actual launch of the rockets was not intended.
Two Sukhoi Su-25 combat aircraft on a reconnaissance mission participated in the exercise. It is likely at some point, the routes
of the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 and a Su-25 jet overlapped. Despite flying at different levels, they became a single dot on the
radar of the missile system. Of the two, the system automatically chose a larger target.
The reasons for the actual missile launch taking place remain unknown and are still under investigation, as practical exercises
with the Buk missiles has been prohibited since 2001, when a Russian Tu-154 passenger airplane en route from Novosibirsk to Tel Aviv
was shot down by the Ukrainian military.
At the moment, an international team of 24 experts is investigating the plane crash. The B777-200 aircraft had a clean maintenance
record and was last checked on July 11 at Malaysia Airlines' hangar at Kuala Lumpur International Airport.
Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 heading from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur crashed on July 17 near the city of Donetsk in Ukraine, killing
all 298 people on board. Kiev placed the blame on the independence supporters in eastern Ukraine for shooting the plane down, but
the latter insisted they did not have the means to shoot down an aircraft flying at 32,000 feet.
Why does foreign policy default to stupid? From the moment that we heard of
the Malaysian airliner shot down over Ukraine it was
clearly an accident. Whoever's finger was on the trigger, the tragedy cannot have been meant. This was not another 9/11. It was cock-up,
Yet foreign policy craves conspiracy. Vladimir Putin blamed the Ukrainian government. Ukraine blamed the pro-Russian
rebels. America's UN ambassador, Samantha Power, "cannot rule out" Moscow's responsibility. London howled blue murder all round.
There had been blood. There had to be blame.
What happened was a ghastly mess in bandit country, meriting the swiftest possible restoration of dignity for the victims. Yet
before even the bodies had been collected, politicians vied with each other for
ending trade, expelling oligarchs and freezing bank accounts. Soon they were fighting like rats in a sack. Barack Obama was a wimp.
François Hollande was an appeaser. David Cameron was a hypocrite. The philosopher Bernard-Henri Lévy
hurled down thunderbolts on everyone,
"This is the spirit of Munich – appeasement. And it is a disgrace."
These moments are dangerous. In 1914, the Austrian government declared the madcap shooting of the Archduke Franz Ferdinand a "Serbian
government plot" and went to war. In 1983, the Russians shot down a Korean airliner that had strayed over Siberia, killing all 269
people on board. It was clearly an accident, the fighter pilots' ground control being drunk and panicking. This intelligence was
suppressed and the incident exploited to precipitate one of the most scary confrontations of the cold war.
Five years later it was America's turn, when a US cruiser shot down an Iranian civilian Airbus A300 in Iranian airspace. The US
navy wriggled and excused itself, while Iran seized on it as a crime of wanton aggression, aided by America rewarding its sailors
with medals. Washington refused to admit legal liability, and took eight years to pay $62m in compensation to bereaved families.
What is terrifying is how such incidents are distorted to suit the interests of revenge. Clearly Putin has been reckless along
Russia's western frontier, backing Ukrainian rebels with enough weaponry to make accidents more likely to happen. Yet the idea that
he willed the tragedy is as absurd as that Konstantin Chernenko willed the Korean massacre or Ronald Reagan the downing of an Iranian
Putin must have been as appalled as anyone at the fate of the airliner. It also sabotaged his delicate power play in the region
and threw him on the defensive. Intelligence from Moscow suggests that he is bruised and angry, retreating into his circle of hawkish
advisers and their nationalist rhetoric. This is the moment Confucius advises us to give the enemy a bridge over which to retreat.
Instead, the west's hawks are having a field day, deriding Putin's paranoia as if to goad him into doing something worse.
Visiting Russia in the 1990s after its humiliation in the cold war, I found it a sad and dangerous place, not unlike Germany after
its defeat in 1918. Yet it was as if no western diplomat had read the Treaty of Versailles, or noted Keynes' warning of the consequences.
Much was done to build economic ties between west and east. Energy, investment and contacts flowed back and forth. Western companies
cavorted with oligarchs and kleptocrats. Money stolen from the Russian people gushed into the wildcat banks of Cyprus and London
and into the Swiss and British property markets. London must rank as the greatest receiver of stolen goods of all time.
So far, so good. But at the same time, Nato and the EU rolled forward over eastern Europe to the Russian frontier, as if aiming
its guns at the gates of Moscow to taunt Russia for its defeat. Nato apologists argued that any country, be it Latvia, Georgia or
Ukraine, should be free to join whichever club it liked (albeit objecting when Crimeans voted the other way). Yet only fools can
ignore the fact of Russian pride and fear of encirclement. The post-cold war provocation of Putin was good public relations, but
it was rotten history.
We are told that east Ukraine is one of many potential explosions that Putin could trigger along the Russian border, from the
Baltic to the Caucasus. Everywhere are Russian minorities (or majorities) that could clash with local non-Russians. Europe's
leaders have no conceivable interest in stirring up such conflicts – and yet that was precisely what they sought to do in Georgia
For Britain – or America – to try and lay down the law along Russia's extensive borders is barking mad; to use a tragic plane
accident as casus belli equally so. It is nothing but breast-beating machismo. Yet again we lurch towards the woolly-headed
daftness of economic sanctions. It is beyond hypocrisy for the west to demand sanctions against Moscow when it happily buys Russian
gas and sells Russia guns, ships, Knightsbridge flats and places at Eton. These double-standards are of our hand. According to the
commons committee on arms exports, Britain currently sells arms worth £12bn to 27 countries listed by the Foreign Office as "of human
rights concern". It cannot enhance world peace to make Europe's energy more expensive, Russian loans harder to get or Harrods less
accessible to "Putin's cronies". Putin could not care less.
Economic sanctions are to modern statecraft what mounted lancers were to war in the trenches: magnificent but useless. Their continued
deployment defies study after study showing them as cosmetic, cruel or counterproductive. Yet how many times has Cameron emerged
from his Cobra bunker to threaten "tighter economic sanctions" against some rogue regime, to absolutely no effect? The rhetoric is
always the same, to "send a message", show resolve, impose a price, not to let "wrongdoing go unpunished". It is as if Britain
were some superannuated school prefect.
The emergence in Moscow in the 1990s of a tough, philistine nationalist like Putin was a near certainty. He may be a nasty piece
of work but he runs what it is still a powerful nation. Mocking his pride and testing his paranoia is for fools. The one country
that knows this and can keep a sane head on its shoulders is run by Angela Merkel. Thank goodness for Germany.
"It is as if Britain were some superannuated school prefect"
Governments - particularly democratic ones with short election cycles - rarely think long term. They focus on immediate gains
- an increase in the local opinion polls, their personal or party's standing on the world stage - etc, rather than the future
of their country, its citizens, and the worldwide community. So it's not surprising that they would exhibit this sort of myopic
behavior and let a future government worry about picking up the pieces.
Yes - That sums up the UK so well. The Brits (Aussies and Canadians too) and their aping of US foreign policy can also be likened
to one the cluster of cowards that hide behind the school bully as he pummels the designated enemy
keable68 insanedreamer 25 July 2014 10:42am
Exactly. Watching Cameron try to play the hard man on the world stage for domestic political capital is sickening. And then having
to back peddle frantically after criticising France when it is discovered that the UK Government is still allowing weapons sales
Nasty little man. Should have done a bit of research before opening his mouth.
Rolex Tablet keable68 25 July 2014 11:25am
He doesn't do any thinking, he was reading from a script handed to him by obama.
Rialbynot LoicdeMarsillac 25 July 2014 8:01am
And just to reiterate Simon's point, those who are constanly jumping on Putin are driving Russia ever further from Europe and
ever closer to China.
Perhaps this is somehow in the U.S. interest, but it cannot be in Europe's interest.
Rialbynot Rialbynot 25 July 2014 8:09am
And what is so difficult to understand from my East Central European perspective is why the EU has so utterly failed to persuade
the Ukrainian leadership to make real reforms in the direction of federalism.
Europe needs a modern federal Ukraine, not a whole series of mafia-controlled fiefdoms - the present oblasts.
The model of governance for Ukraine should be the Federal Republic of Germany. The EU has every right to insist on this. If
Ukraine (the Kiev governing elite) disagrees, well, it can go its own way - towards total bankruptcy and social disorder,
Simonb101 25 July 2014 6:30am
The problem is that the UK has a lot of assets in Russia - so the quid pro-quo will ultimately be self-defeating.
I say we stay out of this one and let the pandering lefties in Europe deal with it. Not that they are capable of doing anything
at all - let alone make a decision.
radical 25 July 2014 6:45am
Easily the best piece written about the situation could you send a copy to the Daily Telegraph, which is looking more like John
Bull circa 1914 everyday. Boris Johnson's piece claiming that the US had behaved with 'wisdom and maturity' over the Vincennes
incident was a pack of lies from beginning to end. Thank you Simon for restoring my faith in the quality of British journalism.
IllWind 25 July 2014 6:57am
In a hagiographic interview with New Yorker, vice president of USA has boasted that America is at the top an one is anywhere close
to them. Mocking Russia, he asserts that they were no match for US and as if joking adds that except a crazy action to press the
button, Russia will always play second fiddle to them. The savant of global hegemony does not stop to consider that given the
conditions, crazy or not, any Russian leader will press the button! America has been responsible for most of the injustices and
wars and strifes and killing since the second world war, and yet it is creating all the right conditions for a third one, which
like other two, will have origin in seemingly madcap action.
HauptmannGurski 25 July 2014 6:58am
I have thought for a while that the West is grinding its teeth because they'd want more influence (power) in Russia. In the West
it is the corporations who direct the politicians and the politics; in Russia it's more the politicians directing the corporations.
They think that removing President Putin will give them more influence over the corporations there, but I would not bet on it.
TommyLimey 25 July 2014 7:00am
The western governments have ruined their economy's and would rather have global Armageddon, than admit their mistakes ,the demonetization
of Putin is part of the plan.
Verbum John Gurley 25 July 2014 7:24am
Why should we make special allowances for Putin, simply because he has an inflated sense of self importance and destiny?
Why did we make special allowances for George W. Bush who supposedly was in touch with the Almighty, or his faithful sidekick
Blair? Look what happened to Iraq and Libya, what is going on in Syria. Do you think that the 'rule of law' was ever observed
by the 'Coalition of the Willing'?
If you look at the map you may note that USA's border is thousands of miles away from not just Ukraine but also Iran where
in 1988 they downed an Iranian passenger jet flying wihtin Iranian airspace.
The issue of Eastern Ukraine needs to be resolved by Ukraine but definitely not from the position of power 'borrowed' from
the USA. All other parties with direct interest - Russia and the EU both of whom border Ukraine should have the observer status
and strive to help the process.
Juvavum 25 July 2014 7:08am
The conflict, as Mr. Jenkins implicates, is as much "The West's" doing as Russia's. This is true, but I don't buy into the righteous
but misguided school prefect trope. Germany is keeping a level head. Yes, but that is because it is the actual target. The one
foreseeable casualty of the Ukraine crisis is Germany's long term investment and development policy in Russia. Ukraine is clearly
being used by" The West", in fact the USA and the UK, to sabotage the Merkel-Putin axis. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the
"incidents" that constantly disrupt the peace process were engineered by the CIA, and if the players, especially some in the Ukraine
government, were playing a double game.
KarmaGeddon 25 July 2014 7:24am
Russian demands were simple. Keep NATO off my backyard. But neocons and neo-nazis, drunk on power, hoping to bring the world under
their suzerainity, would not listen. There is still time to come to terms with Russia through genuine give and take negotiations.
elbowgrease 25 July 2014 7:25am
Spot on, Simon. Isn't the West content to have Putin bend without making him suck? Or is the US looking for an excuse to provoke
the Russian bear into a conflict that could trigger a thermonuclear war?
We need to remind ourselves that NOBODY can say for certain that the separatists brought down the plane. The jury isn't even
out yet because all the evidence - some of it already the subject of dispute - is not yet in.
Both sides need to step back, take a deep breath and await the outcome of the official inquiry - and meanwhile put the war
On the question of sanctions, they are not only useless but downright counter-productive as they punish innocent and vulnerable
populations who end up hating those who impose them rather than their "guilty" regimes.
Jeremn elbowgrease 25 July 2014 11:03am
The media needs to stop being uncritical of assorted thugs just because they are "on our side".
In this respect I'm thinking of the Ukrainian government, which gets a free ride. They just banned the Communist Party and
the Party of the Regions is next (so any future parliament is going to be ultra-nationalist), have launched an ATO and are killing
civilians with grad rockets and shelling. In Europe. Svoboda has ministers and controls five governorships (with oligarchs in
charge of two more, and president).
Where are the reprimands, where is the attempt to curb this Frankenstein's monster?
Popeyes 25 July 2014 7:32am
Despite The Ukrainian president saying that there are 'many radars and satellites' monitoring the skies over Ukraine , Russia
is the only country to unveil its radar readings, which appears to show a fighter plane flanking the airliner before it crashed.
The question as to why it was diverted by Ukranian traffic control 200 miles off course and over a war zone has not been answered.
In fact Russia has had no response to any questions, and there appears to be a complete black out of any response by the EU member
states. It is farcically that although there is no evidence against Russia, and the U.S has admitted as much , because of sanctions
ordered by Washington hundreds of people will loose their jobs, companies will fold and the European economy will take a massive
hit. The U.S economy won't suffer and it will be champagne all round as they plan to flood Europe with expensive gas and energy.
For the sake of the 300 people who died on that plane there must be an impartial international investigation, and until there
is I would like to keep my job please.
oalexander 25 July 2014 7:34am
One of the few moderating pieces on the issue. On the other side, I have come to the reasonable conviction, that Ukraine deliberately
shot the aircraft down. Air control data do not disappear nilly-willy. It was the separatists that were willing to guarantee safe
access to the site, whilst the Ukrainians did not. The quckly concocted, fake tapes. The US know all: it would be unreasonable
that they do not have a detailed awareness of what is going on in Ukraine, which they did so much to get control of; they said
they would have comprehensive data, but failed to deliver and came up with social media gibberish instead.
My guess is, the Ukrainians sought the internationalisation of their civil war, which they seemingly also have problems financing.
Moscow insists documents that show Russians armed the separatists who shot down Malaysia Airlines plane are forged
The west is imposing "illegal, unreasonable and counter-productive" sanctions against Russia based on internet forgeries that
do not prove any of its missiles shot down the Malaysian airliner, the Russian ambassador to London has said.
Shortly before the European Union announced further sanctions against individuals and businesses linked to the Kremlin on Thursday
night, Alexander Yakovenko condemned the trade restrictions that have already been imposed and warned that any more "may well trigger
a long anticipated endgame of the present global crisis".
The EU agreed at a meeting on Thursday to add 15 people and 18 companies or other organisations to the bloc's sanctions list for
undermining Ukraine's territorial integrity, diplomats said. But they failed to reach agreement on economic sanctions and will resume
discussions on Friday, they added.
Philip Hammond, the foreign secretary, has joined the US and Ukraine in saying there is strong reason to believe the Malaysian
airliner was shot down by pro-Putin separatists using a Soviet-era Russian-made Buk missile, killing 298 people.
On Thursday night, the US state department said it had evidence Russia intended to deliver "heavier and more powerful" rocket
launchers to separatists in Ukraine.
However, Yakovenko said Russia had never given weapons to the separatists.
"The ample proof of inconsistencies of the initial narrative by Kiev and Washington has been provided by the closed briefing by
the American intelligence officials on Tuesday," he told journalists at the Russian embassy in London.
"I took this from British media. Given media reports, there was nothing convincing, not to say compelling, in those materials.
"The case, as is admitted, is built upon photos and messages from social media sites, placed by Ukrainian authorities and since
then proved to be forgeries, as ambassador Churkin demonstrated at the UN security council meeting. Naturally, our American partners
say that they have no way of certifying the authenticity of those materials."
He added: "What we do is providing humanitarian assistance and receiving refugees from Ukraine in our territory. I don't have
to say that people in Russia entertain strong feelings over the atrocities committed today by the Ukrainian forces against civilians,
their ruthless use of heavy weapons and air force to shell and bomb [a] peaceful population."
The ambassador said the war in Ukraine had created "murky waters which are a fertile ground for all sorts of incidents".
The separatists are continuing to hold the site of the accident, but the black boxes from the plane and some of the bodies of
those who died in the crash have now been released.
Yakovenko's warnings came after Boris Johnson, the mayor of London, suggested sanctions should only be directed at people in the
entourage of Putin, rather than Russian business in general. He also warned people not to "lash out" against all Russians.
Johnson previously expressed unease about being asked to play tennis with the wife of a former finance minister of Putin, along
with David Cameron, in return for a £160,000 donation. However, he claimed sufficient checks on the donor have now been carried out
to satisfy him that the couple are not "buddies" of Putin.
"We have got to target the people who really count in Vladimir Putin's immediate entourage, in his regime, the people who are
this cronies," Johnson told LBC 97.3.
"That's sensible. People say this will affect London, [that] it will do damage [but] I don't believe it will, because what people
will see is a city that knows the difference between right and wrong. I think it is to the credit of Britain and to London that we
are able to do these difficult things.
"I would stress obviously this is not the context for a general lashing out against all Russians, everybody who happens to speak
Russian. This is a city that welcomes people from all around the world and there are many Russians here in London who are by no means
buddies of Vladimir Putin."
The mayor's defence of the tennis match comes after the Conservatives were put under scrutiny over hundreds of thousands of pounds
in donations from Russians, who Labour said were bankrolling their general election campaign.
An analysis by the Guardian shows more than £161,000 has come from donors with links to the Kremlin's business interests in the
last five years.
It also emerged that one of Cameron's trade envoys, Charles Hendry, is president of a pro-Russia business lobby group whose advisory
council includes an ally of Putin who recently struck an oil deal with Syria's Bashar al-Assad, and a former chief of the arms company
that designed Buk missiles.
The UK and some eastern European countries have been pushing for sanctions not just on individuals and businesses linked to Putin's
regime but for some wider sectoral restrictions that could hit trade in areas such as energy, defence and finance. The list of individuals
who face sanctions announced on Thursday is likely to be published on Friday or Saturday.
Check out this story by AP and compare
the lame, pathetic and self-evident nonsense of these so-called "intelligence officials" offer with the hard fact based presentation
of the Russian Air Force Chief of Staff.
Here is the full article with my comments in blue.
WASHINGTON (AP) - Senior U.S. intelligence officials said Tuesday that Russia was responsible for "creating the conditions"
that led to the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, but they offered no evidence of direct Russian government involvement.
The intelligence officials were cautious in their assessment, noting that while the Russians have been arming separatists
in eastern Ukraine, the U.S. had no direct evidence that the missile used to shoot down the passenger jet came from Russia.
The officials briefed reporters Tuesday under ground rules that their names not be used in discussing intelligence related
to last week's air disaster, which killed 298 people.
The plane was likely shot down by an SA-11 surface-to-air missile fired by Russian-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine,
the intelligence officials said, citing intercepts, satellite photos and social media postings by separatists, some of which have
been authenticated by U.S. experts.
But the officials said they did not know who fired the missile or whether any Russian operatives were present at the
missile launch. They were not certain that the missile crew was trained in Russia, although they described a stepped-up
campaign in recent weeks by Russia to arm and train the rebels, which they say has continued even after the downing of the commercial
In terms of who fired the missile, "we don't know a name, we don't know a rank and we're not even 100 percent sure of a
nationality," one official said, adding at another point, "There is not going to be a Perry Mason moment here."
White House deputy national security adviser Ben Rhodes said the U.S. was still working to determine whether the missile
launch had a "direct link" to Russia, including whether there were Russians on the ground during the attack and the
degree to which Russians may have trained the separatists to launch such a strike.
"We do think President Putin and the Russian government bears responsibility for the support they provided to these separatists,
the arms they provided to these separatists, the training they provided as well and the general unstable environment in eastern
Ukraine," Rhodes said in an interview with CNN.
He added that heavy weaponry continues to flow into Ukraine from Russia following the downing of the plane.
The intelligence officials said the most likely explanation for the downing was that the rebels made a mistake. Separatists
previously had shot down 12 Ukrainian military airplanes, the officials said.
The officials made clear they were relying in part on social media postings and videos made public in recent days by the
Ukrainian government, even though they have not been able to authenticate all of it. For example, they cited a video
of a missile launcher said to have been crossing the Russian border after the launch, appearing to be missing a missile.
But later, under questioning, the officials acknowledged they had not yet verified that the video was exactly what it purported
Despite the fuzziness of some details, however, the intelligence officials said the case that the separatists were responsible
for shooting down the plane was solid. Other scenarios - such as that the Ukrainian military shot down the plane - are implausible,
they said. No Ukrainian surface-to-air missile system was in range. (That is a lie as proven by the Russian satellite imagery
and signal intercepts which prove that they Ukies had plenty of batteries freshly brought right next to the combat zone even though
the Novorissians had just one Su-25 close air support aircraft in their entire inventory)
From satellites, sensors and other intelligence gathering, officials said, they know where the missile originated - in separatist-held
territory - and what its flight path was. But if they possess satellite or other imagery of the missile being fired, they did
not release it Tuesday. A graphic they made public depicts their estimation of the missile's flight path with a green line.
The jet's flight path was available from air traffic control data.
In the weeks before the plane was shot down, Russia had stepped up its arming and training of the separatists after the Ukrainian
government won a string of battlefield victories. The working theory is that the SA-11 missile came from Russia, although the
U.S. doesn't have proof of that, the officials said.
U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Samantha Power said last week that "because of the technical complexity of the SA-11, it is unlikely
that the separatists could effectively operate the system without assistance from knowledgeable personnel. Thus, we cannot rule
out technical assistance from Russian personnel in operating the systems," she said.
Asked about evidence, one of the senior U.S. intelligence officials said it was conceivable that Russian paramilitary troops
are operating in eastern Ukraine, but that there was no direct link from them to the missile launch.
Asked why civilian airline companies were not warned about a possible threat, the officials said they did not know the rebels
possessed SA-11 missiles until after the Malaysian airliner was shot down. (WHAT? Even I new this, just by reading the
reports about the seized Buks, reports which even included photos. They are really insulting our collective intelligence again!)
Have you counted the "caveat words"? I counted fifteen (depending on what you want to include). Notice that they consider the Ukie
missile as "implausible" but that they never explain why this would be implausible. And they admit relying in part on social
media and Ukie government info? How absolutely utterly pathetic. I mean - I feel sorry for them. For any self-respecting intelligence
official to admit such things is to commit a seppuku of your professional pride. It's admitting that you are an amateur and
a drooling moron. And here is the deal - I very much doubt that these men are amateurs or morons. So, yet again, they were back-stabbed
by imbecile politicians like Obama and Power who just are not used to consulting with their own specialist before flapping their
lips and nevermind if they make an entire intelligence community look like cretins.
I can barely imaging how much the US intelligence community must *hate* this administration. Can you imagine what it must be to be
a highly experienced US State Department or DIA career officer and listen to how the Russians constantly berate the US government
for being "un-professional" and "amateurish" only to then hear that kind of absolute utter nonsense spoken in your name.
Look, in this game I am 100% on Russia's side, but part of me, on a (ex-) professional level if you want, feels the pain that
I am sure many career intelligence officers feel today in the USA a>
But of course the big news here is this: the US fairy tale about Putin the terrorist is falling down in flames. Yet again the
Neocons by their sheer arrogance, hubris and boundless stupidity manged to lie their way into a corner from which there is no exit.
Not that the US had much street-cred anyway, not after Colin Powell's dishwasher powder in a vial at the UNSC. But, of course, there
is bad, very bad, even worse and outright terrible. But now the US has reached the "terminal" stage.
The AngloZionists sure had this one coming.
PS: in the meantime, check the zoo that the freaks in Kiev made of their "Parliament":
We have already seen Mark Sleboda
vs a typical BBC Presstitute, today I bring you Peter Lavelle vs a typical CNN Presstitute. I have to admit that I have been
loathing the Ziomedia for many years and it has been close to 20 years since I tossed away my TV, stopped reading the papers, stopped
listening to Neocon Public Radio and basically fully switched to the Internet for news and entertainment. I never regretted this
decision and I still think that this is *the* necessary and unavoidable first step towards personal liberation from system of mind
control the plutocrats have imposed everywhere they had a chance to.
I sincerely admire both Mark Sleboda and Peter Lavelle for
their courage to try to get at least a tiny little bit of truth across in their interviews, but I have to say that I also think that
their efforts are futile. I think that the zombies who watch the Idiot Tube in 2014 are simply beyond hope, they have lost any capability
to think, reason, analyze, or question. As Roger Waters put it so well: "But it was only a fantasy, The wall was too high as you
can see, No matter how he tried he could not break free, And the worms ate into his brain". We might as well call them Cerebrum
Numbing Network. See for yourself in the video below.
The first apparent hard evidence that Malaysia Airlines Flight
MH17 was brought down by a surface-to-air missile is emerging from the crash site in eastern Ukraine, after experts confirmed
on Monday there were signs of shrapnel damage to the aircraft.
The federalists fighting in east Ukraine just took down two more SU-25 ground attack fighters that were bombing their positions.
The weapons used against these planes are either simple air-defense guns or short ranged missiles unlike the missiles that allegedly
took down the Malaysian passenger jet.
The case the Obama administration made against the federalists and Russia in connection with that MH-17 flight is completely falling
Even the aggressive State Department spokesperson has to admit (vid)
there is no real evidence at all. The "mountain of evidence" Secretary of State Kerry talked about is nothing but doctored photos
and sound files provided by the Ukrainian coup government. One photo, for example, is supposed to show a missile system in federalists
hands in a town in east Ukraine. But two reporters asking locals there
can not find
anyone who has seen the bulky and loud system. The photo is therefore likely a montage.
After being public criticized for showing no real evidence the Obama administration trotted out some "senior intelligence officials"
that they have nothing, NOTHING, to connect the case to Russia and only vague circumstantial "social media evidence" that federalists
COULD have downed the jet:
But the officials said they did not know who fired the missile or whether any Russian operatives were present at the missile launch.
They were not certain that the missile crew was trained in Russia, although they described a stepped-up campaign in recent weeks
by Russia to arm and train the rebels, which they say has continued even after the downing of the commercial jetliner.
In terms of who fired the missile, "we don't know a name, we don't know a rank and we're not even 100 percent sure of a nationality,"
one official said, adding at another point, "There is not going to be a Perry Mason moment here," a referenc to a fictional detective
who solved mysteries.
The senior intelligence officials said spy agencies were not aware that an SA-11 system was in eastern Ukraine until the attack
So the alleged transfer of such a big weapon system from Russia was either not observable for the multi-billion dollar, all seeing,
all hearing U.S. intelligence or it never happened. Case closed.
But the neolibcons in the Obama administration do not despair yet. The murky Ukrainian company that hired Vice President Biden's
son is now paying more lobbyists in Washington. The bribes
will flow in bigger amounts. The lies from the Obama administration, and especially from Kerry, will continue as its tries everything
possible to restart a Cold War against Russia or, if possible, even a hot one.
Let the Europeans bleed. As long as the U.S. is safe everything is hunky dory.
"Russian audio recording experts revealed over the weekend that the intercepts invoked by Kiev and its Western supporters turn
out to be FAKE. Reputed digital sound analyst Nikolai Popov and his expert team examined the files made public by the Kiev intelligence
services, and they found that the files had been DOCTORED from separate and UNRELATED conversations.
On first hearing, the alleged conversations tend to implicate the self-defence militia in firing a missile at the passenger
plane. But on closer examination, the digital fingerprints show that the files were fabricated, taken from separate recordings
and spliced together to give the IMPRESSION of integral conversations.
Moreover – and this is crucial – the sound analysis of digital data shows that the tapes were engineered the day BEFORE Flight
MH17 was seemingly hit by a missile and blown out of the sky.
This latest discovery makes for some incontrovertible and deeply unsettling conclusions: firstly, parties were involved in
DELIBERATELY FORGING the files with the purpose of FRAMING others – the self-defence militia and Moscow; secondly, and more disturbingly,
the people who faked the files MUST HAVE KNOWN THAT THE AIRLINER WAS GOING TO BE HIT with a missile, or some other catastrophic
external force, in order to bring it down with all the horrific loss of life entailed."
describing Ukrainian fighter planes hiding behind passenger planes to bomb the city.
So the pro-Russians knew the Ukrainian government was trying to do this and did their best not to fall into the trap.
In 2000 the price of oil was about thirty dollars. Today it is around $100. The main beneficiaries of this price revolution are
marginal hydrocarbon producers: the frackers and the shale/oil sand miners, whose production costs are so high that production
at less than $40 a barrel is uneconomical.
Perhaps this is why the Canadian government, a jointly owned subsidiary of the oil companies, is so anxious to impose sanctions
on Russia which will immediately increase oil and gas prices globally.
Those benefiting from the tragedy involving the airliner also include a wide range of anti-EU ("Fuck the EU!") interests, including
those who regard European manufacturing and technology as the main competition to US firms. It is no accident that the neo-cons,
as a political force, were organised around the Senator from Boeing, after whom the international neo-con organisation the Henry
M Jackson Society is named. Opposition to Airbus and other European industries, including the French shipyards that built the
Mistral cruiser for Russia, is extremely excited at the prospect of cutting off or controlling the energy supplies for the German
auto manfacturers, for example.
And then there is a significant body of opinion, which includes the Polish ultra nationalists, which sees the crippling of
Germany's economy as a desirable object.
Finally there is the reserve currency question: Russia could easily arrange barter and euro/rouble deals which would cut the
dollar out of its gas trade with Europe. This would be of particular benefit to the EU economies, which already enjoy significant
advantages, over the US, in dealing with Russia and China. It would be a fundamental boost too, to efforts to replace the IMF
and World Bank duopoly.
Zero Hedge is reporting Putin may be calling back the Duma for an emergency session. Lots of speculation on what for. The next
few days will be very interesting.
Also, I need a bag of popcorn to watch the western claims deflate in real time. My assumption is that the European leadership's
own Intel, combined with what might have been shared via Russia, had them telling the US back-channel that they weren't willing
to lie to their publics' and risk falling on their swords again like with the bogus Iraqi WMD intelligence. Likewise I wonder
if team Obama got push back from the US intel agencies and military who weren't willing to go forward with such an obvious pack
Care to place odds on Seymour Hersh or Bob Woodward being passed data from disaffected beltway insiders on the real scoop in
the next few months? I'm sure there are a LOT of republican generals who'd love to knife the administration if they think they
can get away with it. Leaking data that the Ukrainians themselves shot it down would be a massive blow to Obama's already defunct
credibility on the world stage.
US policy is made by people who think that what works in the United States will work everywhere else. What works in the US are
poll-tested smear campaigns carried by mass advertisement. It''s worked for the past 60 years and especially since Lee Atwater
perfected it for Bush I in the 1988 campaign. American politics is all tactics and no strategy. So far the Big Lie has worked
pretty well at home: abroad, not so much, which is why the Administration are at a loss in situations where they do not have the
option of applying overwhelming unansweable force. They are in an ocean where they do not know how to swim. Rice and Kerry are
beyond pathetic, and Obama is just behind. I guess they didn't pay attention during the False Flag module in their foreign policy
course. No matter what JSorr thinks, I believe these people are working above their pay grade. Why Can't the MOTU get a more competent
crew of flunkies. It's not like their is any shortage of people ready to sell out their country for 15 minutes of fame and a cushy
foundation presidency after.
In his article today, Pepe Escobar notes the biggest piece of evidence that proves no BUK missile was fired--no thick, easily
visible contrail from the alleged missile that would sill have hung in the air when MH17 hit the ground--and this lack of evidence
has many proponents, myself included. "The damaged MH17 starboard jet engine suggests a shape charge from an air-to-air missile
- and not a Buk; that's consistent with the Russian Ministry of Defense presentation graphically highlighting an Ukrainian
SU-25 shadowing MH17.
Increasingly, the Buk scenario - hysterically peddled by the Empire of Chaos - is being discarded. Not to mention, again,
that not a single eyewitness saw the very graphic, thick missile trace that would have been clearly visible had a Buk been used."http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/CEN-01-230714.html
Another a close parallel between Ghouta and MH17 is the resultant caterwauling when the false flag failed to fly. There is
story in the NYT today about the petulant cries emanating from Kiev now that it is apparent that Germany is not going to be
stampeded into leveling more sanctions on Russia.
Obama's consigliere Denis McDonough was in Berlin trying yet again to line Merkel up against Moscow. It is not going to happen.
Blowing apart a passenger jet didn't work, and neither did gassing a bunch of women and children. But the U.S. and its various
clients and proxies will keep trying. We can count on that.
MH17 is a case of get in and early with your version (US) of events.
Remember Benghazi? First it was a pro-muslim demo that went out of control and on the rampage. I and two others on this board
immediately said BS, because it was presented as a reaction to an anti-Islam film which, I have forgotten the details now, only
had a mild trailer, was not available / seen by anyone, or not even produced yet. In any case such a demo would not kill ambassador
Then it was downscaled in the news to a 'small demo' that confused the situation and finally - now, there was no demo at all
The public has only the first glaring headlines and they don't forget them, which is of course the point. Putin as
Hitler is to be impressed on the public's mind-set is similar.
Sure kicking in open doors, many here are aware of such manipulations.
However, it grows thin when one has to back down in the space of a few days. Although one can write it off with 'confusion
on the ground', 'inadequate information' (I don't think so), etc. Both the US and Russia know or suspect what happened to MH17.
But revealing is a piece of a long term now gruesome political hysterical war, fought for now in the MSM.
My reading is that beyond prop. purposes against Russia (a new cold war or boiling up to hot, and so on which distracts from the
ME failures and Israel, and most important, keeping the EU from aligning with Russia or China, the BRICS, etc.) is that the US
cannot admit it's mistake in accidentally falling into the Ukrainian cauldron, which is at heart a fight between fiefdoms and
oligarchs with all the private underground hoopla which the US (neo-con-libs..) cannot possibly understand or manage, beyond financing
their temporary 'champions' or 'allies' etc.
Sure, the US has been meddling in the ex-USSR and the 'Stans, the human rights democracy etc. BS, not denying that, but when
called on to step up to the plate, get really involved, there is not much on hand except obfuscation, favoritism towards one or
another 'partner' (vassal, stage-front puppet, paid off goons shills on the take etc.), with massive destruction, which serves
the arms-milit-contractors-big Corps and the MSM. This scorched-earth policy provides quick and massive profits and self-felt
kudos short-term for some, but then what?
As for MH17, all the guff about ground to air missiles was clamoured because that was the only way the separatists could
be blamed. That was planned, from about 3 - 10 months ago, imho.
How it was brought down is another discussion. it would be good to get to the nitty gritty of that.
Here's an alternative theory (and only a theory) about what happened to MH17; the reason why everyone is indulging in all
this bigoted Russia-bashing. The elected junta in Kiev were spitting nails that the ragtag of separatists had shot down not one
but two of their military aircraft, using a Buk surface-to-air missile system that may or may not have been stolen from the junta,
or came from unofficial channels in Russia. But you see, the separatists aren't quite as stupid or clumsy as everyone has made
out. They know very well that an anti-aircraft missile battery has to be treated with respect - for PR reasons, the last thing
they want to do is bring down a civilian airliner. Now though, the first scandal was that civilian aircraft were still allowed
into eastern Ukrainian airspace, after two planes had been shot down. But this is where it gets quite dark. Someone in the junta
came up with the idea of sending a civilian airliner near to the limit of the new exclusion zone (this is a matter of public record;
MH17 was told by Ukrainian air-traffic control to fly at 33,000 feet, although it had requested to fly at 35,000 feet; UATC records
were seized by Ukrainian govt officials after the crash and there's a serious likelihood of 'water damage'). Reports vary, but
one or two Ukrainian fighter jets then appear to have been scrambled to 'escort' MH17 - but this was a death trap. It meant that
the Buk system on the ground picked up the radar signature of the jet/jets; a missile was launched; the jets peeled off and the
missile hit the airliner. The junta has a propaganda victory at the cost of 300 innocent lives.
Russian's to be stupid enough to supply a bunch of drunk thugs with SA-11s
I am sure that the US Navy personnel aboard the USS Vincennes were all extremely well trained, professonal and cold sober when
they shot down Iran Air 655.
Both tragedies prove that war is unpredictable and you just can't be sure what happens when people start fighting, whatever
Nothing can justify what happened, though I sincerely hope it was an accident, not a cold blooded murder. My heart goes out
to the families and friends of those who died in downing of MH17. However, I can't help wondering that there were no UN Security
Council resolutions, mass hysteria and accusations, which we see now, when the Iranian passenger plane was shot down all those
years ago. Why? After all it was shot in Iranian airspace by a warship of a foreign power thousands of miles from its home shore.
Lastly - the whole situation would not have happened if there was no meddling in the affairs of Ukraine. Both Russia and the
West should from the onset of the crisis have strived for a politicfal solution. The rebels are ethnic Russians living in Ukraine,
Poroshenko should seek a compromise rather than military force alone. Gaza is best proof that even an overwhelming military force
does not work.
And - by the way - it seems that USA has about as much control over Israel as Russia over the rebels in East Ukraine, and both
support their proteges with equal zest. Pot and kettle comes to mind.
The 32,000' upper limit of restricted airspace would not be for protection against SAMs that could go to 50,000'+, rather as a
procedural means of separating Ukrainian military aircraft from overflying airliners on established air routes. All it meant was
that controllers could not direct airliners lower into airspace where Su25's were milling about.
The SA-11 system that fired
the weapon appears to have been only a TELAR component of the complete system, with limited surveillance radar and no intel feeds
from higher up as would be the case with the apparently missing TAR and command/control vehicles (ask Google). All that the TELAR
operators with their basic 100Km range (6 minutes in a 777) targeting radar (elevation dependent) would 'see' would be a radar
'blip' away from the established air route (why off-route ??) and maybe as rumored in company with a Su25 blip.
The missile is a 'semi-active homer' which navigates itself to achieve a constant angle to the largest (brightest) radar reflection
bouncing back at it from the TELAR which is 'lighting up' the target for the missile. Constant angle = assured collision; try
it in your car.
If there was a nearby Su25, then all that the missile would 'see' is not the multiple 'blips' from each aircraft but the brightest
one if the TELARs targeting radar lobe lit up both the Su25 and the 777, which would have been the huge radar cross-section of
the 777 and the missile would compute a constant angle path to that aircraft alone.
An off-route aircraft, decisions made in the heat of battle by a tired crew, three guys in the TELAR doing group-think, missile
seeker electronic logic working differently to operator aiming head logic ? Google up James Reason's "Holes-in-the-Cheese" theory
Malaysian Airlines routing their aircraft into this very feasible situation, where Ukrainian aircraft had recently been shot
down well above MANPAD limits ?? The fact, that after the accident MA sent it's aircraft over Syria and Iraq, is an indicator
that while they are aware of threats, they are basically, just dumb.
Well, that's a DIFFERENT PR game to be played. I think, actually, it was in the US's interest get this airplane indecent out of
the way lest other unfortunate questions started getting asked.
Now we can go back to sanctions against the bad-guys who overthrew the peacefully elected government in the Ukraine.
cirqueliker -> someoneionceknew, 23 July 2014 12:10am
The Ukraine isn't a fascist regime. No one is buying the use of that word, the propaganda coming from Russia has failed.
The Ukraine is far more democratic than Putin's Russia and people in the rest of the world want to see it perservere and not
let themselves be overrun by a man driven by Soviet nostalgia and KGB ethics.
Jools12 -> cirqueliker, 23 July 2014 12:18am
It isn't? Then explain why there are Neo Nazis holding ministry positions in Kiev's government
Well actually, it was Ukrainian air control who directed Boeing into war zone - not Russia..
It is US and EU who are providing money to Kiev regime to finance the war against eastern part of country clearly Not supporting
coup in Kiev.
Even more to say... It was US embassy who engineered coup d'etat in Kiev, supporting neonazi's and triggered all
Yet more to say...
BUK launcher is part of defense network and requires radar to give it a target coordinates and vector.
At altitude 33000 and speed almost a thousand km/h - it Requires TWO radars at least to triangulate and track target.
Rebels simply don't have trained teams and Hardware to accomplish such hit.
The launcher itself has capability to track targets up to 4km altitudes and 10km distances only.
Even if launcher that fell into rebels hands from Ukrainian army would Worked.... it is a huge problem to find qualified operator
to this system.
It was adopted by Russian army just in 2008.. Ukrainian army operating older version of it developed by USSR.. which didn't came
out from testing.
Actually, Sceptic12 has a very good point, and your attempts at grade 9 science or asking how the rebels shot down other planes
are meaningless (they were at much lower altitudes and did not require sophisticated guidance systems).
The Buk system requires
three vehicles, and specialist operators.
So if the rebels or the Russians themselves did it, there are only two possibilities.
If the rebels (as was reported) captured a Buk system from the Ukrainians it is unbelievable that they could break its security
code and provide a specialist team capable of operating it within a matter of days. Just pointing on a shoot and hope basis would
If it was a system supplied by the Russians with their own specialists, it is rather odd that they would not have contact with
Russian air defence control in one of their most closely monitored border areas (i.e. be capable of tracking and distinguishing
civil from military aircraft)
So wat exactly did the Russians have to gain from shooting down a civilian aircraft.
The Ukrainians on the other hand have form on this. They have (older) Buks, and in October 2001 they managed to shoot down Siberia
Airlines flight 1812 over the Black Sea with 66 people on board.
some or all of these scenarios are possible. I just wonder which is more likely. To go back to the original point, however,
you do need three vehicles and specialist operators to use that system with any chance of success.
Alexander Andreev -> crunch, 23 July 2014 6:38am
As far as I know all other aircraft was shot down using portable launchers at much lower altitudes. There are NO confirmed hits
at higher altitudes.
As for the BUK complex - you can read about it yourself. It requires FOUR different vehicles to be operational. It contains
of a command vehicle, a radar, a launcher and a loader. Probably you can ditch the loader as long as you don't need to reload
the launcher but it won't fire at all without the other three. There are no sightings let alone verified evidence of rebels having
anything except the launcher. And even some images of the launcher are confirmed to be made in Ukranian-controlled territory,
including the one showing the launcher with incomplete missile set.
Of course there is already another bullshit theory being pushed in by we know who which blames Russia of transferring a launcher
vehicle in the rebel territory complete with operators and leaving radar and command vehicles right at the border then using them
to lock on the airliner and firing the missile remotely. And then recovering the launcher vehicle leaving no evidence. While technically
it might be possible it completely lacks motive and evidence.
As for the BUK complex - you can read about it yourself. It requires FOUR different vehicles to be operational. It contains
of a command vehicle, a radar, a launcher and a loader.
Rubbish. A TELAR (transporter erector launcher and radar) vehicle – which combines a radar and launcher – is perfectly capable
of acquiring a target and shooting without any other components of the system. A whole BUK battalion would also include a command
radar vehicle for improved target seeking and identification, and TEL launcher/re-loaders without radars, but the TELAR vehicle
is capable of operating alone.
A TELAR vehicle working without a command radar would not be able to identify IFF signals given out by planes to identify themselves
– probably why this accident happened.
Yoda00 22 July 2014 11:55pm
Here we have the US judging how Russia is responding to this. When the US shot down an Iranian Airliner from a ship that was illegally
in Iranian territorial waters, it took the administration years to acknowledge that the USS Vincennes was indeed inside Iranian
territorial waters, and many years after that to quietly settle out of court with no apology or acceptance of wrongdoing. US Newspapers
argued sanctimoniously about how there were mitigating circumstances in their editorials - The same newspapers that unconditionally
condemned a prior incident where the Soviet Union shot down a Korean airliner. Pot. Kettle.
CienfuegosHeroico -> BrooklynNonHipster 23 July 2014 1:06am
Actually, BrooklynNonHipster, I think Yoda00's post was relevant, if not necessarily quite on point. Of course, we should withhold
judgment until the facts are actually known about MH17, but for argument's sake let's say Russian-backed rebels did accidentally
shoot down the plane. What should the U.S. response be? As Yoda00 pointed out, the U.S. once accidentally shot down an Iranian
airliner (1988); in fact, a similar number of people were killed and an initial cover-up, or at least obfuscation, was apparently
attempted. At no point did the U.S. suggest that they should be demonized for doing so or should receive sanctions for doing so,
and indeed, the U.S. has to this day refused to apologize or admit wrongdoing (although they did, eventually, pay compensation
for the families). Why then should the U.S. demand anything different from any other nation-state in the same situation they were
CienfuegosHeroico -> Yoda00 23 July 2014 1:29am
Although not a common occurrence, there is a history of civilian aircraft being shot down in conflict situations, usually by accident.
In most cases the guilty party, when guilt was admitted, issued apologies, blamed the incident as some unfortunate outcome of
whatever tensions were happening, and the tragedy was left at that. Sometimes compensation gets paid. Certainly not a satisfying
pattern of response, but that is the historical precedence. Why should Russia have to abide by a different standard than any other
nation, if indeed their proxies were responsible for this?
Interestingly, this isn't the first time the U.S. and their friends have been able to score cheap political points against
Russia out of such tragedies; after the Soviet shoot-down of KAL 007 in 1983, Reagan was able to use the emotion arising from
the incident to deploy more advanced nuclear weapons in West Germany, despite flagging support for such a move, thus dangerously
increasing cold war tensions.
Nikolla, 23 July 2014 12:01am
So, not enough "facts" to blame Russia?
That's pity, for the presstitutes already did their best, as usual, and so enthusiastically.
Somebody should compensate the western "journalists" for their time and efforts.
OldSwingingVoter -> Nikolla, 23 July 2014 3:50am
So Russia is the bad guy again. Forget about the 600 plus, women and children mainly, that have been slaughtered by Israel.
America cautions them, of course, but continues to give them more than $4Billion aid every year. And of course if there's any
criticism, you are accused of anti-semitism. What a hard luck world we live in.
HansVonDerHeyde -> JeremyinOz, 23 July 2014 4:18pm
While the whole media is reporting about More Sanctions and blaming everything on the "Evil Aggressor Communist"
Civilians continue to die. Ukrainian Jets airstrikes in Luhansk July 21.
And In July 18 ,Army Shelling Luhansk. more civilians casualties.
But hey -- ! Who cares , they are not Dutch or Germans....So dont worry....
ucic, 23 July 2014 12:05am
MH17: US intelligence says Russia 'created conditions' for plane disaster
US officials stop short of blaming crash directly on Moscow and say separatists likely shot down plane by accident
Derisory! Since the tragedy, and before the release of any credible evidence to confirm who was responsible, we have had politicians
from the US & their UK & EU lapdogs, in tandem with a supine (or, what appears to be a castrated) MSM, screaming and pointing
their fingers at Russia. Now, after the US intelligence state: "rebels likely shot down MH17 'by mistake,'" we are being dripfed
the line that the "fault lies with Russia," purely in order to save the faces of inept political leaders.
Meanwhile, close to the site of the crash, the Kiev junta are still busy killing their fellow countrymen in the region.
US intelligence says Russia 'created conditions' for plane disaster
In February 2014, the US mounted one of its "colour" coups against the elected government in Ukraine, exploiting genuine
protests against corruption in Kiev. Obama's national security adviser Victoria Nuland personally selected the leader of an
"interim government". She nicknamed him "Yats". Vice President Joe Biden came to Kiev, as did CIA Director John Brennan. The
shock troops of their putsch were Ukrainian fascists.
For the first time since 1945, a neo-Nazi, openly anti-Semitic party controls key areas of state power in a European capital.
No Western European leader has condemned this revival of fascism in the borderland through which Hitler's invading Nazis took
millions of Russian lives. They were supported by the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA), responsible for the massacre of Jews
and Russians they called "vermin". The UPA is the historical inspiration of the present-day Svoboda Party and its fellow-travelling
Right Sector. Svoboda leader Oleh Tyahnybok has called for a purge of the "Moscow-Jewish mafia" and "other scum", including
gays, feminists and those on the political left.
Whether the "rebels", Kiev or whomever shot down the passenger jet remains to be publicly proven. Empirically testable evidence
and not conjecture, dogma or propaganda will rule the day.
Until that point, nothing that the US, Kieve, Moscow, EU etal officialdom says is valid.
1410 23 July 2014 12:09am
If Russia is responsible for MH17, the US is responsible for the slaughter of civilians in Gaza and the perpetration of war crimes
(shooting children, shooting ambulances, shelling hospitals, targeting Mosques, targeting sports stadiums, targeting journalists,
targeting schools). I think the US crimes are bigger.
In terms of Means Opportunity and Motive (MOM) , it is more likely that the US-, UK-, EU-, Australia- and neo-Nazi-backed Ukrainian
Government forces were responsible for the MH17 atrocity. Unlike the rag-tag Separatists (1) they had Buk missile systems in the
vicinity and skilled operators; (2) they have leaped to join the US-led anti-Russia lynch mob with fabricated evidence; (3) they
immediately benefited from the US-led global media blitz; (4) the MH17 downing provided cover for the war criminal invasion of
Gaza by US-backed Apartheid Israel (600 Palestinians dead, 4,000 wounded, 100,000 homeless in response to zero (0 ) Israelis killed
by Gaza rockets in the year before the invasion) ; (5) in 2001 they had actually shot down a Siberian Airlines passenger airliner
Flight 1812 with a missile killing all 78 on board (Google "Siberian Airlines Flight 1812"); and (6) Russian Defence has provided
evidence for a Ukrainian warplane shadowing MH17.
In contrast, the pro-Russia Rebel Ukrainians had not been supplied with Buk missiles, lacked skilled operators, had nothing
to gain by this atrocity and , contrary to utterly offensive media reportage, were the only people attempting to secure the bodies.(the
Ukrainian Government has escalated military action in the vicinity.
Not all the American intelligence community thinks the rebels did it. Word is out that those operating the BUK battery most likely
to have fired a missile were in Ukrainian Army uniform.
I'm talking about the LA Times, which says that intelligence points
to UA uniforms, but now with the idea that they were UA defectors working for the rebels.
"U.S. intelligence agencies have so far been unable to determine the nationalities or identities of the crew that launched
the missile. U.S. officials said it was possible the SA-11 [anti-aircraft missile] was launched by a defector from the Ukrainian
military who was trained to use similar missile systems."
Slowly, slowly, the story unravels.
Next we might hear that they were one of the AA Regiments sent by Kiev to Donetsk in early July.
I note the US is slowly backing away from who to blame for the
downing of the MH 17 . First , it was Russia conspiring and directing , then Separatists operating a Russian Missile System supervised
a Russian expert , now the Separatists , due to lack of training , made
a "mistake" in firing the missile . How do you make a mistake in a War
I would like to fill in the blanks , if I can use Russian intelligence .
The Russians sighted a SU 35 fighter jet operated by an Ukrainian
pilot at 20,000 m heading towards the MH 17 at 30,000 m . I would
like to hear the Americans refute this opposing statement . Just a
comment would suffice --
Good post. I would like to say that the notion that the rebels can fire a BUK missile by accident is total BS. It takes tracking
and in fact coordination with air traffic control to down a jet from that height. I'm not prepared to say who did it, but it certainly
is within the realm of possibility that the Ukrainian's did it, but I think you are seeing the US backing away from the accusations.
Ukrainans have clearly lied about not having BUK missiles in the area, and the fighter jet in the vicinity of the the Malaysian
jet's flight path. The Russians have produced satellite images of Ukrainian BUK installations, unlike the Americans who still
have not. Robert Parry reports on consortium.news and seems to have good sources within the CIA, that US intelligence has images
of soldiers in Ukrainian army uniforms firing the missiles. This happened in the middle of the day, and it strains credulity to
think that the US doesn't have satellite images of the launch. Why not release them if it bolsters their case?
The Daily Mail published a selfie of Ukrainian army regular guarding a BUK installation as the "smoking gun" of Rebel complicity.
They didn't realize that it was actually a Ukrainian army regular until readers and bloggers corrected them. So once again, Ukrainians
caught in a lie about BUK missiles.
Alexander Andreev -> davros49 23 July 2014 7:09am
You are right calling these missiles "sophisticated". And this is the major problem with the theory blaming rebels for accidentally
shooting down a wrong plane by pressing a wrong button. Because these systems are so complex there is no chance they could
fire it without trained operators and at a random target. It just does not fire accidentally.
And this makes it disturbing. When someone is accidentally shot with a shotgun while walking in a forest with a hunt going
nearby this is believable. When someone is shot with a sniper rifle while standing alone on a empty square while wearing civilian
clothes and holding umbrella it is much less believable that the shooter has mistaken the victim for a enemy soldier.
Russian companies including energy giants Rosneft and Gazprom need to refinance nearly $112bn within the next four years, something
that sanctions could make difficult
Russian companies are facing a $112bn wall of debt over the next four years, according to rating agency Moody's, as Western powers
move to strangle credit lines to the country.
The US has already imposed sanctions that effectively shut the energy giants Rosneft, Novatek, and Gazprombank out of US debt
That could make the refinancing of $111.6bn (£65.4bn) worth of debts due between now and 2018 more complicated.
Moody's said that while companies on the periphery of the eurozone received much of the focus last year, the refinancing concerns
may shift to Russia, which accounts for about 10pc of the total European debt pile of $1.06trn
Pressure is mounting on the EU to match the punitive US measures on Russian corporates, extending the strangle hold to the European
credit market as a response to the downing of a Malaysian passenger jet.
Indeed, European banks have "a lot of money at stake" in the Ukraine crisis, according to analysts at UBS. The institutions covered
by its researchers have lent more than €60bn (£47bn) to Russia and Ukraine, excluding "any investment banking activity", the Swiss
The banks covered by UBS most exposed to any credit selloff in the reg ntext of US sanctions and a weakening economic outlook
in Russia," said Jean-Michel Carayon, Senior Vice President in Moody's Corporate Finance Group
It seems to me that people within the US military an no doubt some parts of government have pushed back against the current
US line that 'It's da Russians wot Dun it!' because it would unravel all sorts of important links and inter-dependencies. I have
little doubt that the Kremlin has told the US behind the scenes that if they don't slap their winkle back in the shorts that Russia
will withdraw all sorts of cooperation from intelligence sharing, proliferation, Iran etc. and leave the US to drown. I also wonder
what China might have said too, though something along the lines of 'such actions and accusations without clear evidence would
be contrary to healthy ties' and probably some European countries have also told the US diplomatically to FO.
It really smells like the US has seriously overplayed its hand these last few days and has damaged itself. The US reality bubble
is finally starting to wobble, but what would it take to make it pop???
The Russian government did not immediately comment on the downed fighter planes. But a spokesman for the Russian Foreign
Ministry issued a forceful statement on Wednesday accusing the Ukrainian government of making false accusations against Russia,
specifically in relation to the downed passenger jet.
"Instead of cooperating with a thorough and unbiased international investigation into the causes of the accident, the results
of which would then be made public, with maximum transparency, the Kiev authorities daily and hourly come up em>Malaysian experts
pored over smaller pieces of wreckage for a second day, and expressed surprise "at how much access we have," Mr. Bociurkiw added,
but as for other foreign experts, "it's not like our door is being broken down."
In a clear sky, if the Su-25 was as close as the Russian radar plot indicates, it is likely the pilots of MH17 would have seen
it, and would have communicated this to Ukrainian air control on the ground. The record of that communication, the radar tracking
data at the Ukrainian air control centre, and communication from the air controller in charge of MH17 are all in the safekeeping
of the Ukrainian authorities. A
website posting from the Ukrainian State Air Traffic Services Enterprise (UkSATSE) promises to "provide all necessary data from
ground facilities, evidence and assistance in order to determine the actual causes of the tragedy". So far they have not released
Oleksandr Sokolenko (right), chief of the Dniepropetrovsk air control centre, refuses to say what has become of his records of
the July 17 operations, and he won't comment on what he knows. Whether Poroshenko has reviewed this evidence isn't known.
The same data, including flight information and voice communications between cockpit and Ukrainian ground control, are also held
by the black boxes from MH17. Malaysian Airlines executives took charge of the boxes from the Ukrainian separatists on Monday. They
have been freighted by a Belgian Air Force jet to a laboratory in the UK accredited by the International Civil Aviation Organization
(ICAO). These data have yet to be decoded; verified as authentic and complete; then published. The process may take months.
So what really happened? A crew fired an SA-11 at a target they believed to be a military attacker, and hit MH17 by mistake. The
missile was made in Russia and supplied to the Ukraine by Russia. Whether the crew was from the Ukrainian military, or from the separatists,
is not yet known. If they were Ukrainian forces, they are likely to have believed they were defending against a Russian military
attack they had been expecting as retaliation for Ukrainian artillery shelling across the Russian frontier last week.
If they were Ukrainian separatists, they are likely to have believed they were defending their positions in and around Donetsk
and Lugansk from combined air and ground force attack.
The Russian and US intelligence versions now agree the missile shot was a mistake committed by men who thought they were in
the middle of combat. The difference between the two versions remains who fired. The evidence available should be conclusive
on this point. For the time being, the US intelligence officers say they aren't sure.
If the US withholds its satellite pictures of the missile launch, and if the Ukrainian authorities withhold the air control
tapes of the radar tracks, radar screen shots, and cockpit communications, then the preponderance of the evidence shifts - and the
probability grows that it was the Ukrainian military who fired.
Now the fact the the plane was from Holland makes a lot more sense...
The mayor of the Dutch city Hilversum Peter Broertjes in an interview to Radio 1 called "throw away" from the country the daughter
of Vladimir Putin, which, presumably, lives in the town of Voorschoten.
At this point it is beyond any one (or countless number of) human beings to distinguish truth from lies from epic propaganda,
so we won't even try. Here is the latest relevant news that just crossed the stream from Ukraine's defense ministry. From Bloomberg:
REBELS DOWN 2 UKRAINIAN FIGHTER PLANES TODAY, IFX REPORTS
REBELS DOWN SU-25 FIGHTERS IN DONETSK REGION: DEFENSE MINISTRY
More from Reuters: Pro-Russian rebels have shot down two Ukrainian fighter jets, a spokesman for Ukraine's military operations
said on Wednesday. The spokesman said the two were downed near Savur Mogila in eastern Ukraine. No details were known about
Pro-Russian separatists shot down two Ukrainian fighter jets Wednesday over a town close to where Malaysia Airlines 3786.KU
-2.17% Flight 17 crashed last week, a Ukrainian defense ministry spokesman said.
Two SU-25 planes were brought down near the town of Saur-Mogila, which sits close to the Russian border and is 20 kilometers
(12 miles) from Torez, where the civilian jet was brought down last Thursday, the spokesman said.
The alleged shoot-down of the jets would mark the first time a plane has been brought down over Ukraine since the crash.
The spokesman said the army dispatched a team to the scene to establish the exact circumstances of the downing of the jets.
Rebels didn't immediately comment
Somehow we have a feeling this is merely yet another attempt by Ukraine to keep the pressure on the rebels now that the international
response to MH17 has been muted by nearly 100% following Europe's complete inability to agree on what if any sanctions should be
imposed on Putin, and the US state department presenting evidence of Russian involvement that can best be described as laughable.
Well it's quite obvious now the the US will do everything and anything in order to start a full-scale war in Ukraine. I couldn't
possibly imagine that it would have something to do with 1) the coming stock-market crash and 2) Germany not willing to take side
with the US and put sanctions against Russia (which in turn puts even more pressure on the US Dollar)... Right?
1. Immediately after the tragedy, the Ukrainian authorities, naturally, blamed it on the self-defense forces. What are these
accusations based on?
2. Can Kiev explain in detail how it uses
Buk missile launchers in the conflict zone? And why were these systems
deployed there in the first place, seeing as the
self-defense forces don't have any planes?
3. Why are the Ukrainian authorities not doing anything to set up an
international commission? When will such a commission
begin its work?
4. Would the Ukrainian Armed Forces be willing to let international investigators see the inventory of their air-to-air and surface-to-air
missiles, including those used in SAM launchers?
5. Will the international commission have access to tracking data from reliable sources regarding the movements of Ukrainian warplanes
on the day of the tragedy?
6. Why did Ukrainian air traffic controllers allow the plane to
deviate from the regular route to the north,
towards "the anti-terrorist operation zone"?
7. Why was airspace over the warzone not closed
for civilian flights, especially since the area was not entirely covered by radar navigation systems?
8. How can official Kiev comment on reports in the social media, allegedly by a Spanish air traffic controller who works in Ukraine,
that there were two Ukrainian military planes flying alongside the Boeing 777 over Ukrainian territory?
9. Why did Ukraine's Security Service start working with the recordings of communications between Ukrainian air traffic controllers
and the Boeing crew and with the data storage systems from Ukrainian radars without waiting for international investigators?
10. What lessons has Ukraine learned from a similar
incident in 2001, when a Russian Tu-154 crashed into the Black Sea? Back then, the Ukrainian authorities denied any involvement
on the part of Ukraine's Armed Forces until irrefutable evidence proved official Kiev to be guilty.
The leader of the pro-Russian rebels accused of shooting down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 said his forces did not have any
of the surface-to-air missiles as alleged by American and other Western governments.
"I am telling you again, we have never been in possession of a single BUK (surface-to-air missile) system," Alexander Borodai, the
leader of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic, told CNN's Chris Cuomo in an exclusive interview on the channel's "New Day"
"I can list all of the means of defence that we have. All of these means of defense are capable of only crashing low-flying targets."
Borodai dismissed the widely held belief that rebel forces had shot down the Boeing 777-200 over the eastern Ukrainian region
of Donetsk, killing all 298 people on board.
"I don't know what to say because the world community doesn't want to hear it. We had no reason to take down this plane and Ukraine
had this reason to destroy our government," he said.
Borodoi was also asked about a Twitter post, which Western intelligence had cited as proof that rebel forces had the BUK, a Soviet-era
surface-to-air missile system capable of long-range attack.
"It is very simple to disprove it. All the information that comes through the Internet, in my opinion, is practically all lies."
He said his forces had nothing to gain in shooting down a civilian airliner, adding that for "Ukraine our enemy, the crash of
this plane is very beneficial," said Borodai.
Borodai, however, refused to answer Cuomo's question on the support his forces were getting from Moscow, saying he would not comment
on questions touching on Russia as he only represented the breakaway government he headed.
The interview is the first direct comments from the top rebel chief since the shooting down of flight MH17, which departed Amsterdam
for Kuala Lumpur, on July 17.
Coinciding with Borodai's rejection of the allegations against his forces is a claim by Russia that a Ukrainian fighter jet could
have brought down the Boeing 777.
Andrei Kartapolov, the head of the General Staff's Main Operational Directorate, said that a Ukrainian fighter jet, a Su-25, had
tailed flight MH17 moments before it crashed.
He said the MAS airliner lost speed at 17.20 and disappeared from radar screens at 17.23. It then veered off its course to the
north over Donetsk, at one point as much as 14km.
"The reason for flying off the course – whether the crew made a navigational error or followed Ukrainian air traffic control commands
– can be learned only from flight recorders, known as 'black boxes' and from recorded communications of the air traffic control,"
Rebel forces yesterday handed over the black boxes, which could shed light on flight MH17's final moments, to Malaysian officials,
following a deal reached between the two parties. – July 22, 2014.
I feel like USA is taking this opportunity to bring down Russia. In this case, I think should let the experts to do
Not simply pointing finger at anybody, especially when Netherlands (major victims' came from) and Malaysia yet to issue any
official statement saying who should responsible for this. I'm Malaysian, but I think simply blaming Russia based on somebody
said something isn't right thing to do.
Saying 100 times that rebels downed the plane does not make this more credible than saying it once. Most people believe that
revels downed the plane. If there is nothing new to say then repeating accusations can only make this look suspicions. All evidence
in this tragedy is circumstantial so far.
Ukraine is acting though as if it knows that there will be no more factual proof. Ukrainian president declared that this was
an act of terror before most even heard about the tragedy. Did Ukraine know something or this was just "a shot in the air" ? I
believe that rebels shot the plane but circumstantial evidence points so far that this was a tragic mistake, which is not the
1st of this kind. Impatience by Ukraine in capitalizing on the tragedy is exactly what is suspicions. Would Ukraine have prevented
the tragedy if it could? The more Ukraine "benefits" from the tragedy the more I doubt so.
This turns me from unconditionally supporting Ukraine and sanctions against Russia to a more cautious position. Let's wait
for more facts in this tragedy. Ukraine's comparing this to 9/11 is a gross exaggeration demonstrating a clouded judgement at
best. This is a real tragedy but Ukraine implies an evil plot comparable to 9/11. 9/11 is an unprecedented terrorist attack; comparing
an accidental downing of a civilian plane by rebels to 9/11 makes 9/11 look "innocent", which is an offensive proposition at best.
From comments: This, brilliantly said by Russell Stevens below, this is why we don't just blindly believe what we are told by our
"impartial, honest" media any more... "...It started for me in the Kosovo war, NATO lied endlessly, almost the default position was
to tell lies. Then we had WMDs, then we have massacred by Gadaffi that never happened, fake chemical weapons attacks, its an endless
series of LIES.
Look at Cameron, stood up in the House of Commons after the BBC changed the words "napalm" to "chemical weapons" in a Panorama Special
which I am convinced used actors, and he said "if we do not stop Assad now he will continue using chemical weapons more frequently".
He never did.
It is just endless lies for geopolitical money grabbing wars. It is WORSE than the Soviet Union ever used to be. For God sake people
take off the blinkers, we are the New Soviet Union...."
I think Obama lost here, including all momentum and clout against Putin, because of the continued US support for the Israeli
slaughter in Gaza. How in the world can anyone support sanctions against Putin when the US is enabling war crimes in the Middle
East, still not willing or working to promote sanctions or punishment of Israel?
Without the Gaza tragedy, the focus would have been on the Ukraine. It seems hypocritical to castigate Putin given the horror
in Gaza and the refusal of the US to take a moral stand.
mjakes20, 22 July 2014 1:33pm
I hope any investigation proves unbiased and conclusive. In the meantime, I'm sick of seeing both sides using selective evidence
that feed into existing prejudices in order to advance a political agenda. Once again, RIP to all on board.
Michael Bluth mjakes20, 22 July 2014 2:33pm
Actually only one side has produced any evidence at all. The US have quoted some social media posts - or rather referred to
them without quoting.
VladimirM, 22 July 2014 1:34pm
"EU foreign ministers meet in Brussels to consider more sanctions against Russia, with David Cameron leading the charge for
I start thinking that sanctions have nothing to do with Ukraine. No matter what Russia does or Putin says new sanctions keep
arriving and arriving. I think that they are related to the US-lead battle for gas exports, especially of LNG. The latest
US' actions targeted Rosneft and Novatek, for example, which is telling.
I have no idea why the EU is so determined. The US will win gas (or oil) money, but Europe will undermine her energy security
even more because Russia sells, but has no political influence on the EU. The US will have both influence and resources to sell.
loveminuso VladimirM, 22 July 2014 1:42pm
Spot on...You have to be an especially cold, thuggish psychopath to use the deaths of 298 human beings as a tool to extort
an entire nation, who until now have no proven evidence against them of any wrong doing. This is what makes up the English
and US Goverments…sick thuggish common criminals..capable of any deceit for personal gain…we are in big trouble.
21st May 2014 is the date that is going to go down in history as the start of the new Cold War. That's when Russia signed its
big natural gas deal with China to the tune of 400bn dollars. signalling that the world's economic axis was shifting to the East.
The Eurasian Century is upon us. After that the BRICs started plotting to set up their own alternative petro-currency regime,
essentially an alternative to the American dollar reserve. If that got off the ground and OPEC for example started demanding payment
or even part-payment in a basket of yen-yuan-Euro, then the US economy would be devastated and it would be the end of all their
military adventuring. Now this is quite attractive to Europe, especially for the Germans who are just basically asking themselves,
especially after the NSA spying scandal, whether they would be better off tilting to Moscow.
This is the big picture. Dangerous
times ahead. If Iran slipped the net, and joined up with the Sino-Russian axis, I think the US would lose it entirely.
Interesting to see the changes of the British public opinion in course of this tragedy.
Before the MH17 the most recommended posts were "pro-Russian", I'd evaluate the score as 3:1 for Russia.
Right after the accident the mass media started a massive propaganda attack, full or unchecked "facts" (well, to be precise it
happened after Obama's speech where he gave first directions on who to blame).
And the score turned the opposite, say 1:5.
Now it quickly comes back.
Today in 14.50 Moscow time in Avdiivka happened reignition Coke plant, owned by the oligarch Rinat Akhmetov. Fire brought fire
from mortars and howitzers from captured by the national guard under Orlovka, said "Russian news service" in the press centre
of DND. Last night, the factory was already on fire, but in the morning was extinguished.
Odessa "europadangos" mark Gordienko, which the judge of the Kyiv district court Yulia Fedoseeva accused in the attack, was released.
As informs a portal "Duma", the investigator decided that to detain the activist and elect him the measure of restraint for no
reason. Earlier it was reported that Odessa "euromaidan" came to the building of the interior Ministry and promised to burn it,
if Gordienko will not let go.
Ukrainian troops continue to fire at the Lisichansk, despite the fact that the militia left the city. This was reported by the
unit commander of the army LNR Alexey Brain, quoted by the Agency "new Russia". He noted that militia left the Lisichansk after
the shelling of the city by the security forces to save civilians.
So the spokesman for the OSCE mission said they received "no obstruction" that their passage to the site was "incredibly fast".
Yesterday the Dutch experts said the efforts of the team were "impressive" and they did "a hell of a job". The bodies were in
an "acceptable" condition and "treated better then we were lead to believe."
The bodies were handed over, the black boxes were handed over. Neither was "held hostage". People should step back from the
hysteria, you owe those people some respect
Sadly I doubt we (as in the US) have lost control of Poroshenko. I think he is probably being closely guided by the CIA who are
allegedly quite a presence in Kiev at the moment. We don't concede second place to anyone when it comes to sociopathic self-interested
This, brilliantly said by Russell Stevens below, this is why we don't just blindly believe what we are told by our "impartial,
honest" media any more...
"...It started for me in the Kosovo war, NATO lied endlessly, almost the default position was to tell
lies. Then we had WMDs, then we have massacred by Gadaffi that never happened, fake chemical weapons attacks, its an endless series
Look at Cameron, stood up in the House of Commons after the BBC changed the words "napalm" to "chemical weapons" in a Panorama
Special which I am convinced used actors, and he said "if we do not stop Assad now he will continue using chemical weapons more
frequently". He never did.
It is just endless lies for geopolitical money grabbing wars. It is WORSE than the Soviet Union ever used to be. For God sake
people take off the blinkers, we are the New Soviet Union...."
Here's what a Republican US Congressman and former presidential candidate Ron Paul says about US State Dept. propaganda:
western media outlets rush to repeat government propaganda on the event, there are a few things they will not report," Paul, a
former Republican congressman from Texas, wrote on his website. "They will not report that the crisis in Ukraine started late
last year, when the EU and U.S. overthrew the elected Ukrainian president, Viktor Yanukovych. Without U.S.-sponsored 'regime change,'
it is unlikely that hundreds would have been killed in the unrest that followed. Nor would the Malaysian Airlines crash have happened…
"They will not report that the Ukrainian government has much to gain by pinning the attack on Russia, and that the Ukrainian
prime minister has already expressed his pleasure that Russia is being blamed for the attack," Paul said. "They will not report
that the missile that apparently shot down the plane was from a sophisticated surface-to-air missile system that requires a good
deal of training that the separatists do not have." http://time.com/3012968/malaysia-arilines-ukraine-crash-ron-paul/
How blessed are the USA, Canada, New Zealand and Australia, where everybody is immigrant and nationalism in its European form has
no roots. This civil war unleashed by junta against South East is the now looks similar to Yugoslav war. Air bombardments, tanks and
arttellry are used against civilian targets. And as Napoleon noted, God is always on the side with better artillery :-(.
1. Donetsk, Lugansk and surrounding towns and villages being bombarded ceaselessly by Uke forces using every weapon in their possession,
Grad, Hurricane, Tornado and Smerch MLRS and arty up to 20.3 cm.
2. In last 4 days over 300 civilians in the aforementioned areas
have been killed and a like number and more wounded. Civilian and industrial areas completely devoid of any Army of Novorossiya facilities
and troops are targeted as is infrastructure such as gas, water and electric services.
3. Shoot down of MH17 has focused all world eyes on the aircraft. The Ukes are using this to unleash an assault on the civilians
of Novorossiya with unprecedented savagery. Entire MLRS volleys are being fired in to cities, towns and villages away from the prying
eyes of the press.
4. The Cauldron has not been reduced. Although the remaining two battalions of airborne and armor troops have been decimated and
have lost most of their equipment and transport both are still dangerous.
5. The Ukes are pressing Army of Novorossiya very strong. There has been a noticeable change of tactics in some areas of fighting
by the Ukes, obviously a change of command or advisors.
6. Heavy fighting around both Lugansk and Donetsk Aerodromes. Neither side seems to have an advantage.
7. Situation in and around Slavyansk and Kramatorsk is grave. Little food and water, some electric in certain areas. Many roads
blocked by Uke block posts. Military age men and some women are still being arrested.
8. The fate of the Militsiya detachments from Slavyansk and Kramatorsk arrested after Strelkov withdrew are still unknown. No
information or contact to any of their families since 05 July afternoon.
9. Travel by private vehicle in areas of Novorossiya from the Kherson Oblast/Novorossiya border is dangerous. In the countryside
at some small road intersections there are one, two or three civilian cars and trucks with the occupants shot dead.
10. At one intersection of two country dirt roads two cars are shot. Lying beside one of the cars are three local villagers, one
man and two women, obviously shot to death while trying to either help the wounded occupants of a car or trying to remove the bodies.
Locals are terrified and rarely leave their villages. Crops are untended.
11. One small natsgardia/right sector unit of 8 was ambushed in Kherson/Novorossiya Border area by unknown assailants and their
bodies left neatly arranged along the forest path, weapons and equipment removed by unknown personnel. Near the ambush sight a young
woman was found dead. She had been outraged and murdered.
12. Civilian travel in east and southern areas of Kherson Oblast can be dangerous. In the areas north of the Krimea/Kherson Oblast
border numerous patrols of natsgarda/right sector.
13. Vehicles and the few trains coming to Krimea from Kherson Oblast are searched for valuables and most of the military age men
detained and taken 'to the office'. They either pay a large bribe to be allowed to continue to Krimea or are press ganged in to Uke
service and sent to the fronts.
14. The refugee situation in Krimea is difficult. No one is left without succor that need it. As in reports from Cassad and Strelkov
there are many entire families of refugees fleeing to Krimea, arriving in cars and vans packed with personal belongings, food and
drink, vehicles often with the tell tale 'special' license number arrangements. Russia tells all they will be moved to other oblasti
in Russia. Many of this category of refugees demand to be housed 'near the beaches', demand refugee status and demand services.
15. 35000 refugees are in Krimea alone, over 300000 refugees have fled to Rostov Oblast and many moved to other oblasti. It is
estimated that a like number of refugees are staying with family and friends in Russian Federation. Another 50000 have fled west
16. In the area around the MH17 crash scene the Ukes are using the local truce for the crash investigation to move and gather
units for an assault designed to split Donetsk from Lugansk. OSCE and foreign press on sight fail to see armored columns gathering
in the general area.
17. Novorossiya is being hard pressed. The Ukes are using their overwhelming numbers of armor, arty and MLRS to 'mob' the Army
of Novorossiya. Opinion is the situation is in balance and could tip either way, victory for Novorossiya or total defeat.
Ukraine accuses pro-Russian separatists of planning to hand over the flight recorders to Moscow as they turn up in Donetsk.
Ukraine's security service has released a recording it says features pro-Russian separatists talking about trying to hide the
black boxes from flight MH17 at the request of Moscow.
The claim was made as footage emerged of at least one of the flight data recorders - which are in fact orange - being picked up by
a rescue worker on Friday.
In the audio clip which contains three separate conversations, a fighter who is identified as "O.Khodakovskyi" tells a second person
named as "Andriy": "I have a request for you. It is not my request.
"Our friends from high above are very much interested in the fate of the black boxes.
"I mean people from Moscow.
"Please, co-operate with the Ministry of Emergency. All that you find must not come into somebody else's hands.
"Try to take everything that you find so that it doesn't get into somebody else's hands. All those people that are coming, OSCE and
Special report 4.30pm and 8.30pm
The conversations are alleged to have taken place on Friday, the day after the Malaysia Airlines jet was shot down over eastern Ukraine.
Sky News is not able to verify whether the 30 second clip is genuine or who is speaking in it.
But Kiev claims it is proof of the "efforts of the Russian side to hide the evidence of its involvement in (a) terrorist act".
The pro-Russian separatists and Moscow have both denied having any part in the disaster, which killed 298 people.
But Ukraine has made repeated claims that pro-Russian rebels with Russian equipment blew the jet out of the sky before Moscow helped
them cover it up by allowing the missile launcher blamed for the attack back across the border.
It has also been claimed that rebels tampered with evidence and bodies at the crash site.
Wreckage of downed Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 in eastern Ukraine
Pro-Russian separatists and Moscow deny having a part in the disaster
The separatists have now acknowledged that they have what are presumed to be the flight recorders from the Boeing 777-200 in the
eastern city of Donetsk.
"Some items, presumably the black boxes, were found, and they have been delivered to Donetsk and they are under our control," Aleksander
Borodai, prime minister of the self-styled Donetsk People's Republic, told a news conference.
"There are no specialists among us who could pinpoint the look of the black boxes, but we brought to Donetsk some technical items
which could be the black boxes of the airliner."
He said they would be handed over to the International Civil Aviation Organisation and also repeated that the rebels do not have
the capability to shoot down a plane flying at 33,000ft.
Black Box Removed From Crash SiteA flight recorder being taken away from a plane crash site
A flight recorder being taken away from a plane crash site
Footage has emerged of what is believed to be one of the aircraft's two flight recorders being carried away from the crash site.
TaineNZ, Jul 30, 2014
Wasn't this rubbish proven to be fake? Why would the Ukrainian Security service release bogus evidence? hmmm?
Nuxgael, Jul 25, 2014
And this from the same government that kills hundreds of innocent Eastern Ukrainians each month as well as targeting ambulances
in Eastern Ukraine. They have also been accused of having a shoot to kill policy on pro Russian Ukrainians. Then the followers
of those in government were attacking Jews and non-Ukrainians living in Ukraine. For me I wait until all the evidence is in because
too many sides are using this dreadful incident for their own reasons now.
Pete Like, Jul 22, 2014
This war has been allowed to escalate with a virtual News Black Out. Over 1000 have been killed - we are now told. The
victims of the air crash are the collateral damage of the Geo-Political machinations born in Maidan. Their blood is on the
hands of all the politicians who created this situation and allowed it to get out of hand. Now they stand blaming each other like
Patricia Marchand, Jul 21, 2014
It is the second time a Malaysian plane is brought down in 'mysterious' circumstances. Lots of noise that might 'diffuse' what
really happened, why this plane? Any warning given to any organization? Why flying over a danger zone when the satellite could
have given warnings? Black boxes one cannot analyze in both cases? Are we going to have to wait 10... 20... years before somebody
tells us the true?
MikeA, Jul 21, 2014
LOL The authorities in Ukraine appear to understand very little about the value of the Black Box information. There is no benefit
to "hiding" them as they would not reveal anything of use since they only store the actual information from the flight and cockpit
recordings. We already think the aircraft was hit by a missile and the flight boxes will, at the very most, have recorded an explosion
with a total loss; I would have thought that what is needed is the aircraft body as that would be the best evidence of an external
explosion and also parts of the missile as there will be identification numbers that will possibly enable traceability.
The 10-day NATO exercise code named "BREEZE 2014" has ended in Black Sea. The exercise, which included the use of electronic warfare
and electronic intelligence aircraft such as the Boeing EA-18G Growler and the Boeing E3 Sentry Airborne Warning and Control System
(AWACS), coincided with the shootdown of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 in eastern Ukraine, some 40 miles from the Russian border.
NATO ships and aircraft had the Donetsk and Luhansk regions under total radar and electronic surveillance.
MH-17 was shot down over a region where Russian-speaking separatist forces have been battling against the alliance of the Ukrainian
armed forces and a private mercenary force answerable to a Ukrainian-Jewish billionaire oligarch.
The U.S. Army has revealed that the 10-day exercise involved "commercial traffic monitoring". Because of the sophistication of the
electronic warfare and intelligence used during SEA BREEZE, it can be assumed that commercial traffic monitoring included monitoring
the track of MH-17.
Past NATO-Ukraine exercises in Crimea were called "SEA BREEZE". This year's annual SEA BREEZE exercise with Ukraine, approved by
the rump Ukrainian Parliament, is clouded in mystery with the Pentagon saying it was only "in the planning stage and we can't announce
dates yet". However, 200 U.S. Army personnel normally assigned to bases in Germany were in Ukraine during the time of the MH-17 fly-over.
They were participating in NATO exercise RAPID TRIDENT II. Ukraine's Ministry of Defense led the exercise.
BREEZE included the AEGIS-class guided missile cruiser USS Vela Gulf. AEGIS cruisers' AN/SPY 1 radar has the ability to track all
aircraft over a large region. For example, the AEGIS test center in Moorestown, New Jersey, was able to see the Boeing 747 TWA Flight
800 when it disappeared from radar screens in 1996 near East Moriches Bay, Long Island. According to Lockheed Martin personnel who
operated the AEGIS test center in New Jersey, the Navy ordered the SPY 1 radar turned off for "maintenance" shortly before the downing
of TWA 800.
From the Black Sea, the Vela Gulf was able to track Malaysian Airlines 17 over the Black Sea and any missiles fired at the plane.
U.S. AWACS electronic intelligence (ELINT) aircraft were also flying over the Black Sea region at the time of the MH-17 flyover of
Ukraine. Growler aircraft have the capability to jam radar systems in all surface-to-air threats.
The announcement of U.S. BREEZE and RAPID TRIDENT II military maneuvers came on May 21, 2014, and were announced on the website operated
by Vice President Joe Biden's office. Biden's son, Hunter Biden, is a newly-named director of the Ukrainian natural gas and oil company
Burisma Holdings, Ltd., owned by IhorKolomoisky, the Ukrainian-Israeli mafia oligarch, whose is known as the "Chameleon". Kolomoiskyhas
raised his own mercenary army, complete with the BUK missiles allegedly used in the shootdown of MH-17. Kolomoisky, the Governor
of Dnipropetrovsk oblast in eastern Ukraine, has threatened terrorist attacks against Russian-speaking officials in eastern Ukraine,
Burisma is a typical RUIM [Russian - Ukrainian - Israeli - Mafia] operation, with subsidiaries in such tax havens as Cyprus and the
British Virgin Islands. It is part of Kolomoisky's large umbrella corporation called Privat Group.
Kolomoisky, estimated to be the second-richest person in Ukraine, also has strong connections inside Kiev's Borispol International
Airport, where it has been reported that Ukrainian Interior Ministry troops stormed the air traffic control tower shortly before
MH-17 was shot down. A Spanish air traffic controller, who possessed knowledge of the Ukrainian Interior Ministry's involvement in
the shootdown of MH-17, reportedly had his life threatened by people he described as "Maidan" troops, a reference to the Maidan Square
uprising that toppled the Ukrainian government earlier this year. The Spanish controller, identified only as "Carlos," understood
that the shootdown of MH-17 was carried out by supporters of former Ukrainian Prime Minister YuliaTymoshenko and Interior Minister
ArsenAvakov. Kolomoisky is a political ally of Tymoshenko and Avakov.
Kolomoisky, until 2012, owned Aerosvit Airlines, which used Borispol as a hub, and Donbassaero, which was based out of Donetsk Airport.
Aerosvit leased all of its planes, including a Boeing 767, from Boeing Capital. After filing for bankruptcy, Aerosvit and Donbassaero
ceased flying in April 2013. Among other Kolomoisky airlines, Skyways Express, based out of Stockholm ArlandAirport; City Express,
based at Gothenburg, Sweden Airport; and Cimber Sterling, based out of Sønderborg and Copenhagen Kastrup Airports in Denmark, all
filed for bankruptcy in 2012. Kolomoisky continues to be active in commercial aviation. His Private Group owns Dniproavia, which
is based at Dnipropetrovsk Airport.Kolomoisky's aviation and Israeli security contacts gives him carte blanche access to secure airport
facilities in Europe and around the world.
The Obama administration is intensifying its propaganda campaign against Russia and pro-Russian separatists over the shooting
down of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17. Even as it is clear that the US does not know how MH17 crashed or what role Russia played
in the tragedy, top administration officials are using the crisis to issue repeated ultimatums against the Russian government.
US Secretary of State John Kerry made multiple television appearances Sunday, issuing bellicose statements and threats. The shooting
down of the airline was a "moment of truth" for Russian President Vladimir Putin, he told Fox News.
Kerry provided the US "case" that Russia gave the east Ukrainian forces weapons that could have been used to shoot down MH17.
"There was a convoy several weeks ago, about 150 vehicles with armored personnel carriers, multiple rocket launchers, tanks,
artillery, all of which crossed over from Russia into the eastern part of Ukraine and was turned over to the separatists," Kerry
told CNN. "So there's an enormous amount of evidence, even more evidence than I just documented, that points to the involvement
of Russia in providing these systems, training the people on them."
Even if Kerry's claims were true and Russia had provided weapons capable of shooting down MH17, this would not prove that the
east Ukrainian forces in fact shot down the plane. Citing Mark Galeotti of New York University's Center for Global Affairs, CNN said
that the "evidence is largely circumstantial. NATO's images did not show the tanks actually crossing into Ukraine."
Asked on CNN whether Russia was "culpable" in the MH17 crash, Kerry refused to answer. "You know, culpability is a judicial term,
and people can make their own judgments about what they read here. That's why we've asked for a full-fledged investigation," he said.
The recklessness of Kerry's statements is staggering. The United States' top diplomat is insinuating that Russia might
have helped shoot down MH17, while issuing threats that could lead to international sanctions against Russia and an escalation of
the civil war in Ukraine into a global war. As he advances these charges, however, he admits that the administration does not actually
know what happened.
In reality, for the Obama administration, matters of fact-what actually happened and who shot down MH17, provided it was shot
down-are beside the point. The event was seized on to press longstanding political aims. Washington continued to exploit the issue
yesterday to pressure Russia and the United States' imperialist allies in Europe to fall in line with US foreign policy.
Speaking on CNN, US Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Dianne Feinstein (Democrat of California) demanded that Putin "man
up" and confess to shooting down MH17. She said, "I think the nexus between Russia and the separatists have been established very
clearly. So the issue is, where is Putin? I would say, 'Putin, you have to man up. You should talk to the world. You should say if
this was a mistake, which I hope it was, say it.'"
Feinstein also called on the European Union to impose deep economic sanctions against Russia: "I think Europe has to come together.
I think Germany, in particular, has to lead. I think we have to continue with sanctions. It's difficult, because you need Russian
help in so many things."
For their part, Britain, Germany and France announced on Sunday that they would prepare to increase sanctions against Russia over
the plane crash at a European foreign ministers meeting Tuesday.
British Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond on Sunday said Russia "risks becoming a pariah state if it does not behave properly."
Alluding to divisions within Europe over policy toward Russia-particularly, reluctance from sections of the German political establishment
to follow in lockstep behind the US-Hammond said, "Some of our European allies have been less enthusiastic, and I hope that the shock
of this incident will see them now more engaged, more willing to take the actions which are necessary to bring home to the Russians
that when you do this kind of thing it has consequences."
While it presses its propaganda campaign against Russia, the US appears to be hedging its bets about what actually happened. In
comments Friday in which he denounced Russia, Obama himself made a peculiar reference to a lot of "misinformation" on the MH17 crash,
saying that it was necessary for people to "sift through what is factually based and what is simply speculation."
US claims that Russia is politically responsible for the crash of MH17 are a cynical fraud. Whether the plane was brought
down by a missile fired by Ukrainian or Russian-backed forces, the central responsibility for this tragedy lies with Washington,
Berlin and their European allies. The civil war raging in east Ukraine, in which one or another side shot down the jetliner, was
provoked by their support for the installation of a far-right, pro-Western Ukrainian regime through the fascist-led putsch of February
22 in Kiev.
Since then, CIA officials, mercenaries from the firm previously known as Blackwater, and European intelligence operatives have
worked closely with Ukrainian fascist militias, such as Right Sector or the Azov Battalion, to attack and terrorize east Ukrainian
cities. It is unclear how much the White House, which has already claimed that the CIA spied on German officials and intelligence
agencies without telling Obama, knows about these activities.
Under these conditions, it is impossible to place confidence in any statement coming from the Obama administration about the MH17
crash. While pro-Russian forces might have shot it down, it is also possible that Ukrainian army forces or fascist militias, working
with Western intelligence units or mercenary groups, shot down the plane and blamed it on pro-Russian forces.
Significantly, what reports have emerged about missile batteries active in the region at the time of the MH17 crash point to involvement
not by Russia, but by the US-backed regime in Kiev.
US intelligence has claimed that US spy satellites over Ukraine detected an SA-11 Buk missile battery firing a missile shortly
before MH17 crashed. Both Russian and Ukrainian army units field Buk missile batteries, which were originally designed in the Soviet
Union. The Kiev regime subsequently released a video clip of a Buk missile battery, which it said was being rushed towards the Russian
border after the attack, ostensibly in order to escape detection after shooting down MH17.
According to Russian television coverage reported by NBC News, however, the serial number on the missile launcher in question-312-showed
that it is in fact operated by the Ukrainian army.
Finally! The Russian military has decided to speak out about some of what it knows about what happened to MH17. It was a typical
Russian event: the interpreters were nothing short of *terrible* (I speak as a former military interpreter myself), the visual aids
were badly designed (the shape of a SU-24 bomber was used to represent a totally different SU-25 close air support aircraft), and
there was no Q&A. See for yourself:
Still, a few very interesting things came out of this press conference.
First, the Ukies have been caught lying about their military aircraft in the area of the disaster. They had claimed
that no UAF aircraft were in the area. The Russians have shown the recorded radar tracks which reveal the following: there was
what appears to have been a military aircraft (with no transponder) flying below 5000m which suddenly began climbing just before
MH17 was hit by some kind of missile. This unidentified aircraft then stayed and observed as MH17 fell to the ground.
The Russians added that a SU-25 armed with a R-60 air to air missile could have shot down MH17. Maybe. But what is certain
is that the civilian radars did detected this strange Ukie aircraft.
Now, these radar tracks are from *civilian* radars.
The Russians apparently are not willing to share the data from their military radars. This is why this mysterious Ukie aircraft
'appears' at 5'000m altitude and then 'disappears' again, but you can be certain that their military radars, especially on their
A-50 AWACs did track that aircraft before and after its strange maneuver. Again, I think that the Russians hope that the experts
will come to the correct conclusions on the basis of what they have shown today and that they will not have to reveal more. But
we can be certain that they have the full picture and that they know exactly what happened.
Second, the Russians are challenging their American colleagues to show the images they claim show the launch of the BukM1
rocket. They also point out at the interesting coincidence that an US experimental launch detection satellite was exactly
over the area at the moment of the tragedy. Clearly, they are tossing the world experts some kind of lead here, but I am not sure
what this is.
Third, the Russians have shown their own space-based imagery which shows that one battery of BukM1 had been moved just prior
to the incident (See for yourself here). It will be interesting
to see if the Ukies explain what is shown on these picture and, if yes, how?
As a public information this conference gets a C+ but as a lead for experts I would give it a much higher A-. We know have
hard proof that the Ukies lied at least twice. They lied about the footage of the Buk missiles being moved back to Russia (the
footage was taken in Ukie-occupied territory) and they most definitely lied when they denied having any military aircraft in the
area when in reality they had one in the immediate proximity of MH17. That is a huge lie which the Ukies will have a very
hard time dismissing.
As I said in my first post about MH17, I have no hope whatsoever that the western plutocracy will ever admit that the junta
did it. Ditto for the corporate presstitues of the MSM, but I do hope that the world will see this tragedy for what is clearly
was: a deliberate false flag on the part of the Nazi junta in Kiev. As David Chandler correctly points out about 9/11, the proof
of a cover up is in itself already a proof of a conspiracy.
Ukraine hasn't said how it immediately knew rebels downed Malaysian plane, notes the Russian Foreign Ministry, as it unveils 10
awkward questions for Ukraine (and perhaps the US 'snap judgment') to answer about the MH17 disaster. However, what is perhaps more
concerning for the hordes of finger-pointers is that:
RUSSIA HAS IMAGES OF UKRAINE DEPLOYING BUK ROCKETS IN EAST: IFX
RUSSIA: UKRAINE MOVED BUK NEAR REBELS IN DONETSK JULY 17: IFX
RUSSIA DETECTED UKRAINIAN FIGHTER JET PICK UP SPEED TOWARD MH17
Obviously, if there is proof that this is so, aside from CIA-created YouTube clips, these would deal another unpleasant blow to
US foreign policy.
The Russian defense ministry during its press conference which concluded minutes ago:
Here is the full clip of the Russian ministry releasing its own forensic analysis of what happened to flight MH17 (with English
Russia wants to know why Ukraine moved its BUK missiles systems the day of the MH17 crash:
RUSSIAN GENERAL STAFF HAS SPACE IMAGES OF SECTORS OF UKRAINIAN FORCES' POSITIONS IN SOUTHEASTERN UKRAINE, INCLUDING BUK
MISSILE LUNCH SITES 8 KILOMETERS FROM LUHANSK - RUSSIAN DEFENSE MINISTRY - interfax
The day the Malaysian airliner crashed, the Ukrainian forces deployed an air defense group of three or four Buk-M1 missile
batteries near Donetsk, Lt. Gen. Andrei Kartapolov, head of the Russian General Staff's Main Operations Department, told reporters
"These surface-to-air systems are capable of hitting targets at a distance of up to 35 kilometers at an altitude of
22 kilometers. For what purpose and against whom were these missile systems deployed? As is known, the militia has no aviation,"
Russia has the flight paths of the Ukrainian fighters and MH17. Furthermore, it is asking the same question we asked last Thurday:
RUSSIA SAYS MH17 DIVERGED 14 KM FROM FLIGHT PATH NEAR DONETSK
And wants to know why. The image (as seen in the presentation above) allegedly shows Ukraine fighter jets near MH17:
Here is a screengrab of a Su-25 fighter jet detected close to MH17 before crash.
"A Ukraine Air Force military jet was detected gaining height, it's distance from the Malaysian Boeing was 3 to 5km,"
said the head of the Main Operations Directorate of the HQ of Russia's military forces, Lieutenant-General Andrey Kartopolov
speaking at a media conference in Moscow on Monday.
"[We] would like to get an explanation as to why the military jet was flying along a civil aviation corridor at almost
the same time and at the same level as a passenger plane," he stated.
"The SU-25 fighter jet can gain an altitude of 10km, according to its specification," he added. "It's equipped with air-to-air
R-60 missiles that can hit a target at a distance up to 12km, up to 5km for sure."
The presence of the Ukrainian military jet can be confirmed by video shots made by the Rostov monitoring center, Kartopolov
And asks for US proof of their accusations:
RUSSIA SAYS U.S. SATELLITE FLEW OVER MH17 AT TIME IT WAS DOWNED... which would provide all the proof needed
to show who is responsible - so why hasn't the US explained this or shown it?
RUSSIA ASKS U.S. FOR EVIDENCE ROCKET FIRED FROM REBEL-HELD AREA
RUSSIA: NO U.S. PROOF THAT MISSILE FIRED FROM REBEL-HELD AREA
DEFENCE MINISTRY SAYS RUSSIA DID NOT DELIVER ANY SA-11 BUK MISSILE SYSTEMS TO SEPARATISTS IN EASTERN UKRAINE "OR ANY
And went on to rebuke all the Twitter photos created by Maidan to 'prove' the BUKs were moving in Russian hands.
Additionally, as Russia noted using what appears to be legitimate photographic evidence (something the west has so far failed
to provide in any capacity) MH17 crashed within the operating zone of the Ukrainian army's self-propelled, medium-range surface-to-air
'Buk' missile systems, the Russian general said.
"We have space images of certain places where the Ukraine's air defense was located in the southeast of the country," Kartapolov
The first three shots that were shown by the general are dated July 14. The images show Buk missile launch systems in about 8km
northwest of the city of Lugansk – a TELAR and two TELs, according to the military official.
Another image shows a radar station near Donetsk.
Radar stations of the air defense in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian
Defense MinistryRadar stations of the air defense in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of
the Russian Defense Ministry
While the third picture shows the location of the air defense systems near Donetsk, he explained. In particular, one can clearly
see a TELAR launcher and about 60 military and auxiliary vehicles, tents for vehicles and other structures, he elaborated.
Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense
MinistryBuk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense
"Images from this area were also made on July 17. One should notice that the missile launcher is absent [from the scene].
Image number five shows the Buk missile system in the morning of the same day in the area of settlement Zaroschinskoe – 50km south
of Donetsk and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk," the Kartapolov said.
No Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian
Defense MinistryNo Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the
Russian Defense Ministry
Buk missile defense units in Zaroschinskoe, 50km south of Donetsk city and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk, on July 17, 2014.Photo
courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryBuk missile defense units in Zaroschinskoe, 50km south of Donetsk city and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk,
on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry
The question that has to be answered is why the missile system appeared in the area controlled by the local militia forces shortly
before the catastrophe, he stated.
The global public expects a speedy and independent investigation into the causes of the disaster Malaysian aircraft in the airspace
In order to conduct an objective investigation of possible leadership of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation has
ased ten questions to the Ukrainian side.
1. Ukrainian authorities immediately identified the militia as the perpetrators of the tragedy. What is the basis of
2. Could official Kiev to report all the details of using [BUKs] in a war zone? Most importantly - why these systems
are deployed there, as the militia no planes?
3. What are the causes of inactivity of Ukrainian authorities on the formation of an international commission? When such a
committee will work?
4. Are the armed forces of Ukraine international experts to present papers on accounting for missiles, air-to-air and ground-to-air
ammo and anti-aircraft missiles?
5. Whether these funds objective control on the movement of the Ukrainian Air Force aircraft on the day of the tragedy brought
6. Why Ukrainian air traffic controllers allowed deviation of the route of the aircraft to the north side of the "anti-terrorist
7. Why was not completely closed to civilian aircraft airspace over the combat zone, especially because in this area there
was no solid field of radar navigation?
8. Could official Kiev to comment on reports in the net, ostensibly on behalf of the Spanish air traffic controllers
working in Ukraine, which shot down over the territory of Ukraine "Boeing" was accompanied by two Ukrainian military aircraft?
9. Why Security Service of Ukraine has begun without international representatives work with recordings of talks with Ukrainian
crew dispatchers "Boeing" and Ukrainian radar data?
10. How were the lessons from previous similar disasters Russian Tu-154 in 2001 in the Black Sea? Then the leaders
of Ukraine until the last minute denied any involvement of the Armed Forces of the country to the tragedy until irrefutable evidence
showed no guilt official Kiev.
Unfortunately, there has been no response by the Ukraine side to these questions so far. We expect that there will be some answers.
* * *
Needless to say, this places Ukraine and The US (as main protagonist of "finger pointer") in an awkward position as finally someone,
somewhere will have to present some actual facts instead of merely continuing the "emotional appeals" propaganda.
We expect many of these questions to be answered once the contents of flight MH17's black box are revealed and/or when Ukraine
finally releases an undoctored version of the Air Traffic control recording with the doomed flight.
First the separatists are demonized because the "bodies are bloating in the sun", then for putting them in a refrigerated train.
I've seen newscasts bemoaning the fact that parts of the aircraft are still lying around, and others bemoaning parts being shifted.
This is a great example how, once the victim is demonized, literally anything they do will be used to provoke what the BBC newsreader
this morning called "international fury". The BBC itself is provoking the international fury, not sure how many people are buying
it. I suppose this is all a chess game, they think they've got Putin cornered.
Then he should ask his allies in Kiev to stop bombing those in the east, surely? Basic propaganda 101 from the US.
Putin wants to give them access, get your pals in Kiev to start the bombing again to make access impossible (or at the very
least unsafe) then 'demand' Putin allows access. Its the never ending cycle, why can't people see through this ..
First of all once more, my sincere condolences to those who have lost loved ones, I know that I cannot even begin to comprehend
your feelings, my thoughts are with you!
There is something that is just not hanging true about this entire episode, the world is stunned, the Ukranians are pointing
the finger, they have concrete proof, they have pictures of the missile trajectory rhetoric rhetoric, etc etc, but, we have seen
Russia has been completely taken aback, Vlad Putin did make a statement immediately afterwards but it failed to be reported,
as much as, the scathing Ukranian reports, Mr Kerry's comments and Mr Cameron trying without much luck to speak to V Putin. Although
the Dutch PM and others did speak. Maybe the puppet was just too much, he knew what would be said anyway, predictable as..........!
All the time we were told Russia, Russia, but when you see what the local miners have done, how locals are bringing passports
etc to reporters it is obvious that there is no coordination, just complete shock and obvious humanity, then, you hear how Ukraine
is awaiting the bodies, the good guys.....after the bad guys have found refrigerated trains and done the difficult work......the
supposed bad guys could "possibly" have had the missiles, which possibly shot the airliner down from 35,000 feet. The Ukranians
however do have many such missiles and launchers and they are in the area, apparently, but the bad guys have nothing to shoot
down? We have to be absolutely sure here just what went on?
The answer to all this, without any proof at all, is to place more and more embargoes and restrictions on Russia,, I cannot
believe the prejudiced rhetoric aimed at Russia without proof of their intentional implied involvement, which let's face it would
You know, if these Ukranians, were the good guys, they would be facilitating the movement of the bodies and the trains, by
having a truce, a cease fire but no, the very very vocal pointing finger "good guys" are sending tanks in!
The question which must be answered, which always leads to the truth, is this. " Who Gain's?"
Wonderful, wonderful comment. That comment contains more truth and fact towards the real truth than pretty much all of
the media US/UK/Australian media circus and heads of state are presenting us with.
Am I the only one that really really hates these annoying 'Kiev did it' posts. This crash is a tragedy for all.
But to try to spin it into something it is not because the facts don't fit your view, well thats just disgusting.
The facts tell us that by far the most likely explanation is that the pro-russian seperatists, who have been (succesfully)
shooting at Ukrainian military aircraft for some time, in a moment of utter idiocy and incompetence shot down a civilian airliner
who happened to be flying over.
There is no other explanation. The rebels don't have aircraft so why would the Ukrainians shoot down an aircraft.
No military or political hierarchy would approve of some kind of 'lets frame the rebels strategy', nobody would butcher 300
people. The risks of someone clapping out of school are just too high.
In time (maybe years) the rebels involved will come out. When that happens I hope a lot of Russian trolls here go silent in
shame I hope.
This has been the course of action within minutes of this tragedy unfolding. There is something intrinsically wrong in the
direction of and who it is coming from and where it is trying to steer peoples minds.
I am not having it until the facts are out and that may take some considerable time.
This has just become a warmongering politicised mess trying to grab the hearts and minds of people against an "evil" state.
We know who the evil state is and see and hear its whirring political cogs spinning round.
What has this got to do with Barak Obama and America, these comments from him have only to do with progressing American hegemony
and its come from the deep seated belief of its own over inflated sense of self worth.
Barak Obama is just another warmongering US war criminal president who kills innocent civilians abroad in order to progress
its plans of world domination. Those killed in the process are known as collateral damage.
the dignity of the victims must be stressed of course... of any victims from rich western countries that is.
the thousands of victims of the last few weeks among the civilian population of east.ukr and the 100k+ refuges fleeing the
region are instead a fair prize to pay for the pacification of the region for western investors and understandably these victims
get almost no mention in the press of elizabeth-arden capitals...
A change in what's being said if not in tone - Obama and Cameron now calling for the same as what Putin was from the beginning
- a transparent and fair investigation.
But then going on to to criticize the poor people on the ground who, in the middle of an on going war, have spent the last
four days moving bodies into cold storage (despicable doesn't cover it), and nothing on Kiev forces shelling Donetsk train station
and the watch tower at Donetsk airport just as things were getting moving - another Nobel laureate intent on leading the world
The more I think about what he said the more it's making my piss boil - imaging some world leader saying 9/11 first responders
had corrupted evidence and treated the victims disrespectfully - their capital would have been obliterated within days.
Fucking sick of leaders - I used to think they were mostly fools, now I think they are mostly psychopathic - time to get
rid of the lot of them before they blow us all to hell.
They should let those investigators in, but make it clear that as long as Kiev does not keep its army away, separatists will
react accordingly. I.e. that they can't ensure the safety of the investigators.
Kiev seems to be the main obstacle to an investigation. Obama is either not in the know or simply lying, again.
I hope Obama is not going to capitalize on the deaths of passengers on MH 17 in his crusade against the Russians. I would also
think that the Kiev government is not immune to investigation. Why have their fighter jets cameras not been checked? Why did the
air traffic controllers in Kiev divert this plane. Could they have been under orders from Kiev to divert it to this area in Donetsk,
where the Ukrainian army does have BUK missiles, and ordered it shot down so they could fan the flames against Russia and the
East Ukrainian fighters? This would be a typical Nazi trick and considering their total lack of respect for human life after the
Odessa burning of innocent people and the constant shelling and the deaths of innocent civilians in East Ukraine. This is one
scenario I would not overlook. These men in Kiev are desperate, and that can bring about very interesting results. I myself would
like to see a proper investigation into this crash that includes the Kiev government, that everyone seems to think can do no wrong.
Still, it is too early to tell what really happened, I also agree with Putin that this crash should not be used for political
gain, and that a proper investigation should be done by international experts to determine who, if anyone, shot this plane down.
If I were the guardian editor. I would start being a bit more impartial in the reporting and apportioning blame on this terrible
atrocity round about now. Obama will let Kiev take all the flak if they really are banged to rights. Going overboard with the
US narrative might bite you on the posterior, if the Russians have compelling evidence to the contrary. At the very least, at
the end off this you could end up looking a bit silly.
The "fighter" jet line doesn't seem to hold much water. A quick google will tell you an SU25 is a ground attack aircraft incapable
of intercepting an airliner. It's altitude ceiling is too low and at its maximum speed would barely be able to catch up with a
777 at cruising speed. If the Ukrainians really did want to shoot down a passenger jet they would have used an aircraft better
suited to the job.
So no mention by the Guardian on today's press conference by the Russian Defence Ministry showing Ukraine lied about t ssia',
that Ukraine moved Buks into the area of the MH17 crash shortly before, and that Ukraine lied when it said there were no Ukrainian
military aircraft tailing the MH17 before the crash and staying around afterwards until the plane hit the ground?
My, my.....Where is our Western media when you need them? Guess I will have to go back to RT and ZeroHedge for my updates.
The Russians have come out in the last few hours saying that they were tracking a Ukranian SU-25 fighter jet climbing up
The Ukranians have claimed they had no aircraft in the air that day, so if this proves to be true it would go a long way to
support the Ukranians shooting it down themselves, not the rebels. Why would they lie about having a fighter in the air? Russians
have also confirmed a US spy satellite was overhead at the time of the incident and have called on the US to release the photos
and data. Why would they do that if they were lying, also?
It now seems painfully apparent that Kiev thought shooting down the plane would compell NATO to intervene on their behalf.
They were very vocal about that immediately after the crash, but it didn't happen. With each passing day they (Kiev) have grown
more frustrated. Meanwhile, Washington is frustrated in its effort to throw all blame onto Russia for the civil war in Ukraine
(which is the result of the US-inspired coup, after all).
Circumstantially, the hand of Ukrainian forces looks most likely here. They are acting least rational / most bellicose.
He started with "We support Israel" just as a hospital was shelled in Gaza.
But it got worse. He said something like "rebels preventing access to investigators for days". First, the investigators only
arrived today, and second, MSM has been reporting and quoting the investigators going around the crash site and conducting their
investigation for at least a couple of hours now.
It gets even worse. Obama claimed that the rebels are not allowing the bodies to be released. The rebels have asked the investigators
to oversee the transportation of the bodies hours ago and the investigators have agreed. The journalists on the ground have been
reporting a Kiev offensive targeting the areas around the railway tracks, that is what is preventing the trains from leaving.
Who is briefing him, Monica Lewinski? How is it that we are more informed of the situation from simply reading this live blog
than the president of the US is with his NSA and CIA?
Why is not on the headlines that Russia is asking for an explanation for the presence of an Ukrainian fighter jets flying close
to the Malaysian airplane and the satellite pictures showing that there were Ukrainian missiles positioned near this area?
Say what you like about the Yanks, but at least they admitted to shooting down the Iranian airliner back in 1988, and paid
out compensation to the families...although admittedly no American was ever brought to justice for that war crime...
I also have a deja vu feeling about the disinformation that came out, claiming the transponders etc were not working, islands
being removed from maps at press briefings showing they were in international waters etc.
As someone once said, you can fool some of the people all the time, but nobody ever knows they are the fool in quesiton.
One would have thought the Guardian would have changed its headline given the evidence emerging regarding a 2cd plane, I am
sure Russia has even more to follow and is allowing both Kiev and Washington to dig themselves into a very very deep hole.
Shame on the Guardian for not reporting this in the same vein as it reports hearsay, unverified, uncorroborated "evidence".
And why was the plane diverted by 300 km and ordered to fly lower? They are fairly easy questions but none of the media are
asking and there certainly aren't any answers. It's a crucial area of investigation and it doesn't need presence at the. Rash
site; just to explain
According to the DM this plane was instructed to divert off path, previous Malaysian flights used a different route? But as
tragic as it is, in Gaza now over 500 dead incl many kids, we can't bring back lost lives but we can prevent future deaths so
why is Obama and Cameron not condemning the continuous bombing in Gaza?
I'm pointing out the double standards applying. Also that human lives are equal, whether Europeans or Palestinians or whatever
races. And that backing those who take the lives of innocents is wrong, and that is whether unknowingly and by accident as with
Mh17 (which even people who reckon rebels shot down the flight, believe happened) or as in Gaza, where it was always obvious civilians
deaths would occur.
If you only listened to the BBC and CNN and other Western media, they would have you believe that the only possible explanation
of the shooting-down of MH-17 all comes down to Russia being guilty.
After all, the BUK missiles are Russian-made. These missiles require technical expertise which the Russians have. The pro-Russia
rebels previously shot down aircraft in the same area. And all of this is conclusive even before any serious investigation of
the site has even been started!
1) Assertion 1 – the missile is Russian-made, and so the Russians must have provided it to the Rebels. The Ukraine military
has 60 BUK systems, of which 3 were in the crash zone last week. Moreover, several Ukrainian military bases lost equipment to
the rebels during the past few months of military conflict. So just because Russia makes some equipment does not mean that it
directly supplied the rebels.
2) Assertion 2 – the BUK missile system requires technical expertise to operate it, and so the Russians must have provided
it to the Rebels. Since Ukraine/Soviet military has been using the BUK system 1972, they clearly have the competence to use
this equipment. So the Ukrainian military have both the equipment and the training to operate the BUK system. Some of the Ukrainian
military in Eastern Ukraine defected to join the pro-Russia rebels. So it is not unreasonable to expect that some of the relevant
expertise (to operate the BUK system) came to the rebels when those military personnel defected.
3) Assertion 3 – the pro-Russia rebels have previously shot down aircraft in the area, so obviously it must have been them
again. When the rebels shot down aircraft before, these were planes and helicopters used by the Ukrainian military. They were
flying at 6,000 feet or less (unlike the 32,000 feet of MH-17) and therefore were accessible by less sophisticated surface-to-air
missile systems. On the other hand, the Ukraine military shot down a Russian passenger jet carrying 78 civilians with a Russian-made
SA-200 missile system in 2001. They initially denied it, until after 8 days they were presented with irrefutable proof, at which
time they confessed to their "mistake".
4) Motive and who would benefit from this action. If Ukrainian military performed this heinous act, then Ukraine would
have a lot to gain. Firstly, they would glee in Russia's pain – in fact, they are already enjoying the fact that Russia is incurring
the threat of more sanctions and bad press. Secondly, they could provoke NATO and other foreign troops to come in to protect the
crash site in rebel-controlled areas. Thirdly, and their highest priority, the combination of the first two points would increase
the chances of the Ukrainian military to defeat the pro-Russia rebels, once and for all, after several months of trying.
5) Recorded telephone and twitter conversations proving the involvement of the pro-Russia rebels. I saw on two non-Western
TV channels how speech experts had analysed the audio from the alleged phone discussions to identify fragments of the audio had
been originally recorded prior to last Thursday when the tragedy happened. In other words, the alleged phone discussion was nothing
more than re-configured audio fragments to result in a fabricated phone recording.
6) The involvement of Russians fighting with the pro-Russia rebels does not equate to the involvement of the Russian state.
The fact that Russians support their "brethren" in Eastern Ukraine does not automatically mean that the Russian state is involved.
This would be like saying that Britain has boots-on-the-ground in Syria, just because nearly 1000 Britons have gone over there
to join the fight. These are merely British individuals who have gone over there in a personal capacity, similar to the British
and French ex-military mercenaries who can be found fighting in conflicts all over Africa. They are there in their personal capacities
without the consent of their state.
Unlike Western media and politicians, I cannot draw a conclusion regarding who perpetrated this terrible act. In my view, it
is premature, too hasty and disrespectful to any system of justice to jump to such conclusions, accusations and talk of sanctions
before any investigation has even begun. What I am highlighting in the above 6 points is that questions still need to be asked.
Ukraine officials today. We are not shelling the train station in Donetsk.
CNN reporter on site in Donetsk today. Ukrainian forces are shelling the train station in Donetsk.
Yes, we really believe the Kiev government. They always present the truth, whether it's is about those in Odessa setting fire
to themselves or rebel forces bombing their own cities. They must be since the ministry states that Ukraine never has planes in
the air when the bombing occurs.
You can add this to the list of conspiracy theories that turned out to be facts
[Jul 21, 2014] Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko denies a claim by Russia's defense ministry that a Ukrainian warplane flew near
MH17 at the time of the crash
Poor Peter Poroshenko...
Poroshenko tells CNN that "this is not true", that the area was being surveilled at the time, and that his government would be
open to any investigation on the issue. "Everybody knows that in this period of time … all Ukrainian planes were on the ground [near
Grabovo, where the plane crashed.]"
Russia's defense ministry held a briefing earlier Monday in which it made several claims and suggested they could possibly explain
how and why MH17 was shot down. First among these claims was that a Ukrainian fighter jet, a Su-25, was in the area. Another scenario
involved the passenger plane straying from its flight plan. The air force general, Andrei Karatolov, did not directly accuse Ukraine
of shooting down MH17, and the ministry handed journalists slides
arguing for the claims.
In the days since the downing of MH17 a lot of people have jumped to conclusions prematurely. Evidence provided by the Ukrainian
Security Service, combined with the results of social media investigations, suggests the Ukrainian authorities have been less than
honest in key disclosures of information to date.
Firstly, condolences to those who have lost their loved ones on MH17. This is a terrible tragedy.
A lot of the media and governments have jumped to conclusions about the responsibility for the downing of the Boeing 777. It is
rather distasteful when this happens, particularly as in many cases the primary interest of those making their minds up before a
proper investigation is propagandistic. Key principles of propaganda are to try to get your side of the story in first, to repeat
lies and half-truths until the they are accepted as truth and to demonize an enemy in order to encourage hatred.
It is to be hoped that the investigation proper will be professionally run and unbiased. Given the geopolitical implications,
it is difficult to be very optimistic about that though, having the examples of the Lockerbie investigation and the recent
UN/OPCW investigation into Ghouta in mind.
We hope those most concerned, the victims and their families, will learn the truth and also see a measure of justice.
Anyway, having spent some time examining the evidence which has so far come to light, it seems necessary to make a small contribution,
to hopefully get a bit closer to the truth and away from the current atmosphere – which most resembles a witch-hunt.
The US has claimed in a statement on the Kiev Embassy
web site that: At the time that flight MH17 dropped out of contact, we detected a surface-to-air missile (SAM) launch from
a separatist-controlled area in southeastern Ukraine. We believe this missile was an SA-11.
Intercepts of separatist communications posted on YouTube by the Ukrainian government indicate the separatists were in possession
of a SA-11 system as early as Monday July 14th. In the intercepts, the separatists made repeated references to having and repositioning
Buk (SA-11) systems.
Social media postings on Thursday show an SA-11 system traveling through the separatist-controlled towns of Torez and Snizhne,
near the crash site and assessed location of the SAM launch. From this location, the SA-11 has the range and altitude capability
to have shot down flight MH17.
The Security Services of Ukraine (SBU) have provided
photos and video to the media which
they claim show SA-11 buk systems returning to Russia after having brought the plane down.
The photo extract below, showing a buk, has surfaced, (from where noone is sure) and has been geolocated to the town of Torez
(a town close to the MH17 crash site which has seen conflict between some of the locals and members of
Oleg Laschko's Battalion of neo-Nazis.)
This photo and a video clip issued by the SBU are being used to suggest that the downing of the MH17 must have been by the "separatists"
who then returned the missile system to Russia.
Now, it is too early to determine with certainty who fired the missile and who bears legal responsibility for the tragedy. But
it is interesting to note that the below photo, provided to Ukrainian media by the SBU, also shows a buk on a trailer. In this photo
we can see the serial number of the buk which is 312.
There are a number of sub-plots to this story, including the fact that the Ukrainian Prosecutor-General says that Ukraine has
not lost any "buks" to the rebels and, of course, the question of why, if they had, the Ukrainians didn't close their air space to
But something particularly interesting is that rather than coming from Russia as Ukraine is claiming, buk number 312 appears to
be a Ukrainian buk. The evidence for that is in the video below, uploaded 5th March of this year, where we can see a number of Ukrainian
buks all lined up in a place called Horlivka (or Gorlovka). The third buk in the line is number 312.
So, it appears that at least one of the buks, which the SBU claim belongs to Russia, is actually Ukrainian.
According to information provided by the Russians, the Ukrainians had 27 Buk MI complexes of the 156th AA missile regiment in
the disaster area on 17th of July.
It is essential that the Ukrainians provide a full inventory of all their Buk M1s and precise movements of each of these vehicles
– rather than producing pictures of their own vehicles which they hold out as belonging to the rebels – and they should do that immediately.
-- It would be much appreciated if readers could make a contribution to the cause using the donate button above.
Another CIA false flag operation like in Kiev(nazi snipers in the hotel) and Odessa(agent provocateurs with red armbands collaborating
with the police) is the most likely scenario. I think the most effective way to expose this is to analyze the "evidence" that
was fabricated by SBU and CIA.
The US was involved in such terrorist acts in the past:
"Declassified CIA and FBI records posted today on the Web by the National Security Archive at George Washington University
identify Cuban exile Luis Posada Carriles, who is apparently in Florida seeking asylum, as a former CIA agent and as one of
the "engineer[s]" of the 1976 terrorist bombing of Cubana Airlines flight 455 that killed 73 passengers."
A representative of the rebels in Donetsk confirmed to Reuters that the separatist group has agreed to hand over the black boxes
The situation in Donetsk, through which the train of victims' bodies will pass, remains unstable. Journalist Noah Sneider
tweets that a "massive convoy of rebels and equipment on
the road near Shakhtyorsk [is] heading away from Donetsk. Cars, buses, tanks, APCs, maybe [about] 50 total."
Black boxes will be handed over at 9pm local time, according to Malaysia's Prime Minister Razak.
Even though this agreement had been made with the rebels, Najib stressed that a "number of steps" still had to be taken in order
for the required work to be completed. The rebels had agreed to ensure that "continued cooperation" between all relevant parties
Even though it was clear that Malaysia was gravely upset over the way the investigation had so far been handled, Najib said it
was up to the government to promote peace and calm in order to get things done and that he hoped these developments would a step
in the right direction.
"In recent days, there were times I wanted to give greater voice to the anger and grief that the Malaysian people feel. And that
I feel. But sometimes, we must work quietly in the service of a better outcome."
But it was the Ukrainian army that seemed intent on disrupting expert work on Monday, as they apparently launched an offensive
against rebel positions close to Donetsk railway station, as well as in other towns across the region.
"There is work on clearing
approaches to the city, on destroying checkpoints of the terrorists. If there are explosions in the middle of the city, then it is
not Ukrainian soldiers," said Andriy Lysenko, a spokesman for Ukraine's national
security council, in Kiev.
Adding to the chaos, Lysenko denied that the Ukrainian army was responsible for explosions in central Donetsk but said a "self-organised
group" of partisans could be engaging the rebels.
"We have strict orders not to use air strikes and artillery in the city. If there is fighting in the city, we have information
that there is a small self-organised group who are fighting with the terrorists," he said.
Vladislav Seleznev, spokesman for Ukraine's anti-terror operation, said the action was "a planned offensive" to push rebels away
from Donetsk airport, and insisted that aviation and artillery were not being used against civilian residences.
However, there were reports of civilian casualties. The Guardian saw one 18-storey building where a shell had hit the courtyard,
smashing all the windows on the first nine floors and destroying parked cars.
Trucks of rebels could be seen travelling past the station as reinforcements. Gunfire and artillery rounds were audible. One rebel
fighter claimed the Ukrainians had tried to take the area around the train station with tanks but the rebels were fighting back.
The Ukrainian president, Petro Poroshenko, ordered a ceasefire across a 40km (24-mile) radius from the crash site, but this
does not include Donetsk, which is further out.
Guardian editors were probably terrified that nobody buy State Department talking points and closed discussion after 31 comment
(in 14 minutes). The first comment was published at 6:06 PM and the last at 6:20)
So is the U.S., as the sponsor of Israel, responsible for the safety of UN investigators and humanitarian operatives in Gaza?
If Obama's statement is supposed to be based on some kind of principle, then there is no way to conclude otherwise.
Of course, none of U.S. foreign policy is based on principle; only agenda, packaged in the language of principle.
Victor Chan, 21 July 2014 6:04pm
And because???? Obama said so? Or because???? Putin is already found guilty and he has to prove his innocent??? Hehehe....
Because the Obama administration does not have proofs to show that it was the separatists who shot down the plane? I am sure the
CIA and the NSA have proofs that it was an Ukrainian jet fighter which shot down the plane. They won't reveal it or to say it
because it would help Putin and to discredit Ukraine and the Obama administration. Now, Putin has to show the world that it was
an Ukrainian fighter jet which shot the down plane?
martinusher, 21 July 2014 6:06pm
Short of Russian troops securing the area I don't know how Russia could 'rein in' the locals. We're talking as if these people
are directly controlled from Moscow (which they obviously aren't because this wouldn't have happened in the first place). We're
also talking as if chaos and confusion is the norm at the crash scene when it looks as if things are quite well organized considering
The amount of bluster coming from our leaders is starting to worry me. I'd expect them to milk this tragedy for all its worth
-- that's what politicians do --- but the way its unfolding is starting to suggest to me that things aren't quite as they seem.
42Robert42, 21 July 2014 6:06pm
Obama....Your administration is quick off the mark to denounce Putin and Russia without comprehensive proof (over the downing
of MH17), yet you are agonizingly slow to denounce Israel when you have proof beyond doubt, with dead Palestinian bodies piling
up by the minute. Double standards what?
Georwell, 21 July 2014 6:07pm
Please, mr Obama, come back and show us the US satellite pictures...the US radar records.... please ask Ukr to publish the
Kiev radar records.... Please show us SOMETHING... cuz you have so many spy toys there, right ?....
And some [should] inform Potus the bad terrorist rebels move the remains not to destroy evidence, but to stop the decay and
wild animals ...
All hands up, on mid time, for Malaysian envoy who manage to take control of the train and make the first REAL step on the
process of returning the victims remains to the familiars... he has done in one day MORE then all shameless politicians...
Blimey, I'm starting to feel like a one-man news-desk on this issue - if you missed my earlier bulletin here it is again...
Can we at least end the trance-like delusion about denial of access to the site for air-crash investigators, continuing to be
repeated like a zombie mantra.
"The burden now is on Russia to insist that the separatists stop tampering with the evidence, grant investigators, who are
already on the ground, full and unimpeded access to the crash site. The separatists and their Russian sponsors are responsible
for the safety of investigators doing their work."
Observers have only had limited access up until today yes. The Dutch experts, who are the first foreign air-crash experts to
arrive (note, none have arrived and been denied access) have had no restrictions placed on them. If an army of journalists
can reach the site...
Pro Russian rebels at the crash site of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 have granted European monitors and experts nearly "unfettered
access" to wreckage Monday, according to a spokesman for Security and Co-operation in Europe.
The rebels even provided some perimeter security to keep journalists at bay, creating a "dome of tranquility" for the OSCE
monitors, three Dutch forensic experts and a handful of Ukranian aviation experts now at the scene, Michael Bociurkiw said
Monday in a briefing hosted by the Ukrainian Crisis Media Center.
Here is something besides the propaganda, from on of our own Congressman Ron Paul:
"Western politicians and media joined together
to gain the maximum propaganda value from the disaster. It had to be Russia; it had to be Putin, they said," the former presidential
candidate wrote. "While western media outlets rush to repeat government propaganda on the event, there are a few things they will
One of those unreported things, Paul claimed in his weekly "Texas Straight Talk" column, was the United States' own responsibility
for destabilizing the region. Ukraine is currently embroiled in violent conflict between the Ukrainian government and the pro-Russian
"They will not report that the crisis in Ukraine started late last year, when EU and US-supported protesters plotted the overthrow
of the elected Ukrainian president, Viktor Yanukovych. Without US-sponsored 'regime change,' it is unlikely that hundreds would
have been killed in the unrest that followed. Nor would the Malaysian Airlines crash have happened," Paul wrote.
ID9793630, 21 July 2014 6:20pm
Well this brings us back to the point: If Putin is to be held directly responsible for the safety of investigators, shouldn't
he be given a 'free pass' to send his troops into Ukraine to provide reliable security? After all the government in Kiev does
not seem to have an adequate mandate to govern the country and does not seem to be too competent or trustworthy in security matters....
I don't know who shoot down the Boeing. But I am sure that something went wrong. For the past two days propaganda machine of the
world's media is clearly stalled. Information offence exhausted itself within 24 hours. It does not happen without serious cause.
Because all the signs "sensation of the world level" is obvious: almost three hundred victims, "terrorists, mocks the remains of
the victims", geopolitical scandal involving Russia. Official Kiev produces "evidence of a terrorist attack" with the speed of the
conveyor belt. From "fire spotters", detained on the border with the Russian Federation, to records of the conversations between
field commanders telling details of destruction of Boeing 777.
The only thing that is missing from Kiev propaganda is the confessions of a rocket that hit civilian aircraft. And why Western
media is reluctant to continue the hysteric is veiw of those Kiev "revelations"? What they (the Western MSM) are still missing?
You know, during the so-called " hot phase" of the EuroMaidan" (February) hysteria in the Western MSM was tremendously higher.
The important statements followed each other every two to three hours. Were dusted off and put of 24 by 7 duty all the speakers,
experts, representatives of "human rights" organizations. The State Department and the European Commission literally competed in
the amount of messages that were issued per hour. The information bar "Interfax-Ukraine" literally all was red (the color of highlight
the most important leads that precede the information itself). None of that we can observe now. After initial artillery bombardment
for three days all is quite on the Eastern front. Just poor Jogn "Assad poisoned his citizens with sarin" Kerry trying to sustain
the attack. This is at least strange. The impression is that at the last moment the necessary provocation went wrong, the plane crashed
in the wrong place, and now the designers need to take a break to adapt the script. There are still very little proven facts that
would allow to build an easy to understand picture of this event. However, we still try.
Almost immediately after the tragedy with the "Boeing" a massive offensive of all Kiev forces in the direction of Lugansk and
Donetsk started. The battles are now conducted in the suburbs of those two megalopolises. And no one cares about civilian casualties.
On Sunday defense Minister Galatea reported about a whole series of military victories." Among them - the next unblocking of Luhansk
and Donetsk airports, the occupation of the South-East of Lugansk, blocking all the channels of receipt of military aid to militia.
Igor Strelkov, according to available reports, reported heavy fighting. Information about "liberation" of the two airports was not
confirmed. The enemy, according to militia, throws into battle tanks and armored personnel Carriers without infantry support.
Small raiding "death squards" are active in the Metropolitan area, killing everyone. The official propaganda is interpreting this
as the "rebellion of the local population, killing the militants." There are not new about military units, which fell in the boiler
in the area of Ukrainian-Russian border. Occasionally appear posts, were solgers ask ATO command to send reinforcements.
Tanks must break into the Donetsk and Lugansk to push the ball in the centre and "to hoist the Ukrainian flag. Where - is not
important. To perform this task thrown all available in ATU resources and reserves.
It becomes clear: the command of the ATO has set the task to take the Luhansk and Donetsk at any price up to a certain date. Often
July 22 is cited. Cities-satellites should be, apparently, just wiped off the face of the earth. Tanks must break into the Donetsk
and Lugansk and rush to the center in order to "to hoist the Ukrainian flag." What will be the price is not important. To perform
this task all available in ATO resources and reserves are thrown into the fire. They do not pay attention to communication and supply,
which is stretched. Simultaneously a campaign of conducted a campaign in the style of "victorious advance of the forces of ATO, hundreds
of militants surrendering leadership fled to Russia" is conducted via Ukrainian MSM.
And let's get back to the Boeing. The impression is that the plane crash was a signal to the beginning of a massive attack. As
the three green missiles. Were they waiting for, when somebody knocks a Boeing 777? No, of course. The most likely was the following
scenario was to abuse the situation when the world was hit by this terrible tragedy How to best use this situation? First, to declare
Russia "the center of international terrorism" and a "rogue state". Secondly, block the rebellious regions from supplies and wait.
Whether coming of "precision weapons" from the USA, "peacekeeping forces", or facts, irrefutable evidence of the involvement of Putin
personally to the tragedy
Besides continuing his rants against Russia, Yats also dropped
this little gem:
Он также уточнил, что украинские военные не использовали в ходе проведения силовой операции на востоке ракеты класса "земля-воздух".
"Украинское министерство обороны даст всю информацию о местонахождении всех ракет противовоздушной обороны", - отметил премьер.
He also clarified that Ukraininan troops did NOT use any rocket of the "ground to air" class, at any time in the course of
the conflict in the East. "The Ukrainian Ministry of Defense will give all information about the location of all rockets of anti-air
defense," the P.M. replied.
END OF TRANSLATION
Reading between the lines:
(1) Nobody in the international community (not even Ukraine's staunchest allies) trusts Ukraine to properly handle either bodies
or crash investigation; and
(2) Nobody in the international community (not even Ukraine's staunchest allies) trusts Ukraine about its ground-to-air status,
until they give a complete audit of all their hardware and where it is located.
yalensis, yes, I agree. However much public embracing of Ukraine into the European 'family' has gone on, no European or world
leader places any confidence in Ukraine and its politicians whatsoever.
The EU and, particularly the Dutch, however, have missed a trick. They should have insisted from the get-go that Kiev immediately
release the recording of the conversation between the Kiev control tower and MH17.
Now the records have been taken over by the SBU so the chances of ever hearing an undoctored version are pretty slim.
ANYTHING these Sky News reporters are not capable of doing?
I watched the whole video on youtube, but some reason it can't be linked from there, as it tries to "embed" itself. In the
full video, the reporter first sheds some crocodile tears over the victims, and then praises himself for his "sensitivity" in
not showing bodies or body parts.
He then proceeds to rifle through somebody's luggage, "It's a small girl's bag, I think," he picks up some pink object right
out of the suitcase that once belonged to a child…
then pauses to comment: "We shouldn't really be doing this."
And these hyenas were the ones accusing the Rebels of looting!
More news from PPRUNE that might back up Carlos, ATC at Borisopol who tweeted under Spainbuca that ukranian military aircraft
were by the 777 3 minutes before the event. Where is Carlos since all foreign ATCs were kicked out by Ukranian security and ATC
According to an authoritative source, two Su-27 Flankers escorted the Malaysian Boeing 777 minutes before it was hit by one
or more missiles.
The Aviationist " ?All flights, including Malaysian B777, were being escorted by Ukrainian Su-27 Flanker jets over Eastern
In other words: since the Russian interceptors had downed a Su-25 on the previous days, the Ukrainian escorted all military and
civil flights over eastern Ukraine on Jul. 17. Including MH17.
It seems that despite the best efforts of Washington, London and their acolytes to bounce the EU into serious sanctions against
Russia when they meet in Brussels on Tuesday, cooler heads are prevailing and are sticking to their line that they want to see
the investigation in to MH17 play out, not rush any actions.
Is this the last throw of the US/UK dice?
Cameron blasted Merkel and others who don't follow his line in the Sunday Times recently, but taken in light of the drubbing
he has got over trying to get someone else rather than Juncker and his appointment of a EuroCommisar being put on hold (all Commission
appointees are on hold until another EU meeting in Brussels in August), then it is clear that Cameron is playing to his domestic
political audience and trying to win/keep votes from UKIP supporters.
will be sent to the experts of the leading European countries and Malaysia.
The chief of the main operational Department of the General staff of Russian armed forces, Lieutenant General Andrey Kartupelu
told that the place of hitting of Malaysian Boeing fall into the zone of targeting of Ukrainian Buk systems.
Also SU-25 attack aircraft. was spotted next to the passenger plane.
Washington's propaganda machine is in such high gear that we are in danger of losing
the facts that we do have.
One fact is that the separatists do not have the expensive Buk anti-aircraft missile system or the trained personnel
to operate it.
Another fact is that the separatists have no incentive to shoot down an airliner and neither does Russia. Anyone can tell the
difference between low-flying attack aircraft and an airliner at 33,000 feet.
The Ukrainians do have Buk anti-aircraft missile systems, and a Buk battery was operational in the region and deployed at a site
from which it could have fired a missile at the airliner.
Just as the separatists and the Russian government have no incentive to shoot down an airliner, neither does the Ukrainian government
nor, one would think, even the crazed extreme Ukrainian nationalists who have formed militias to take the fight against the separatists
that the Ukrainian army is not keen to undertake–unless there was a plan to frame Russia.
One Russian general familiar with the weapon system offered his opinion that it was a mistake made by the Ukrainian military untrained
in the weapon's use. The general said that although Ukraine has a few of the weapons, Ukrainians have had no training in their use
in the 23 years since Ukraine separated from Russia. The general thinks it was an accident due to incompetence.
This explanation makes a certain amount of sense and far more sense than Washington's propaganda. The problem with the general's
explanation is that it does not explain why the Buk anti-aircraft missile system was deployed near or in a separatist territory.
The separatists have no aircraft. It seems odd for Ukraine to have an expensive missile system in an area in which it is
of no military use and where the position could be overrun and captured by separatists.
As Washington, Kiev, and the presstitute media are committed to the propaganda that Putin did it, we are not going to get
any reliable information from the US media. We will have to figure it out for ourselves.
One way to begin is to ask: Why was the missile system where it was? Why risk an expensive missile system by deploying it in a
conflict environment in which it is of no use? Incompetence is one answer, and another is that the missile system did have an intended
What intended use? News reports and circumstantial evidence provide two answers. One is that the ultra-nationalist extremists
intended to bring down Putin's presidential airliner and confused the Malaysian airliner with the Russian airliner.
The Interfax news agency citing anonymous sources, apparently air traffic controllers, reported that the Malaysian airliner and
Putin's airliner were traveling almost the identical route within a few minutes of one another. Interfax quotes its source: "I can
say that Putin's plane and the Malaysian Boeing intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was close to Warsaw on 330-m
echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. The presidential jet was there at 16:21 Moscow time and the Malaysian aircraft at 15:44 Moscow
time. The contours of the aircrafts are similar, linear dimensions are also very similar, as for the coloring, at a quite remote
distance they are almost identical."
I have not seen an official Russian denial, but according to news reports, the Russian government in response to the Interfax
news report said that Putin's presidential plane no longer flies the Ukraine route since the outbreak of hostilities.
Before we take the denial at face value, we need to be aware that the implication that Ukraine attempted to assassinate the president
of Russia implies war, which Russia wants to avoid. It also implies Washington's complicity as it is highly unlikely that Washington's
puppet in Kiev would risk such a dangerous act without Washington's backing. The Russian government, being intelligent and rational,
would obviously deny reports of an attempted assassination of the Russian president by Washington and its Kiev puppet. Otherwise,
Russia has to do something about it, and that means war.
The second explanation is that the extremists who operate outside the official Ukrainian military, hatched a plot to down an airliner
in order to cast the blame on Russia. If such a plot occurred, it likely originated with the CIA or some operative arm of Washington
and was intended to force the EU to cease resisting Washington's sanctions against Russia and to break off Europe's valuable economic
relationships with Russia. Washington is frustrated that its sanctions are unilateral, unsupported by its NATO puppets or any other
countries in the world except possibly the lap-dog British PM.
There is considerable circumstantial evidence in support of this second explanation. There is the youtube video which purports
to be a conversation between a Russian general and separatists who are discussing having mistakenly brought down a civilian airliner.
According to reports, expert examination of the code in the video reveal that it was made the day before the airliner was hit.
Another problem with the video is that whereas we could say that separatists conceivably could confuse an airliner at 33,000 feet
with a military attack plane, the Russian military would not. The only conclusion is that by involving the Russian military, the
video doubly discredited itself.
The circumstantial evidence easiest for non-technical people to understand is the on cue news programs organized to put
the blame on Russia prior to the knowledge of any facts.
In my previous article
I reported on the BBC news report which I heard and which was obviously primed to place all blame on Russia. The program ended
with a BBC correspondent breathlessly reporting that he has just seen the youtube video and that the video is the smoking gun that
proved Russia did it. There is no longer any doubt, he said. Somehow the information got on a video and on youtube before it reached
the Ukrainian government or Washington.
The evidence that Putin did it is a video made prior to the attack on the airliner. The entire BBC report aired over National
Public Radio was orchestrated for the sole purpose of establishing prior to any evidence that Russia was responsible.
Indeed the entire Western media spoke as one: Russia did it. And the presstitutes are still speaking the same way.
Possibly, this uniform opinion merely reflects the pavlovian training of the Western media to automatically line up with Washington.
No media source wants to be subject to criticism for being unamerican or to find itself isolated by majority opinion, which carries
the day, and earn black marks for being wrong. As a former journalist for, and contributor to, America's most important news publications,
I know how this works.
On the other hand, if we discount the pavlovian conditioning, the only conclusion is that the entire news cycle pertaining to
the downing of the Malaysian airliner is orchestrated in order to lay the blame on Putin.
Romesh Ratnesar, deputy editor of Bloomberg Businessweek, provides convincing evidence for orchestration in his own remarks of
Ratnesar's opinion title is: "The Malaysia Airlines Shootdown Spells Disaster for Putin." Ratnesar does not mean that Putin is
being framed-up. He means that prior to Putin having the Malaysian airliner shot down, "to the vast majority of Americans, Russia's
meddling in Ukraine has largely seemed of peripheral importance to U.S. interests. That calculus has changed. . . . It may take months,
even years, but Putin's recklessness is bound to catch up to him. When it does, the downing of MH 17 may be seen as the beginning
of his undoing."
As a former Wall Street Journal editor, anyone who handed me a piece of shit like Ratnesar published would have been fired. Look
at the insinuations when there is no evidence to support them. Look at the lie that Washington's coup is "Russia's meddling in Ukraine."
What we are witnessing is the total corruption of Western journalism by Washington's imperial agenda. Journalists have to get on
board with the lies or get run over.
Look around for still honest journalists. Who are they? Glenn Greenwald, who is under constant attack by his fellow journalists,
all of whom are whores. Who else can you think of? Julian Assange, locked away in the Ecuadoran Embassy in London on Washington's
orders. The British puppet government won't permit free transit to Assange to take up his asylum in Ecuador. The last country that
did this was the Soviet Union, which required its Hungarian puppet to keep Cardinal Mindszenty interred in the US Embassy in Budapest
for 15 years from 1956 until 1971. Mindszenty was granted political asylum by the United States, but Hungary, on Soviet orders, would
not honor his asylum, just as Washington's British puppet, on Washington's orders, will not honor Assange's asylum.
If we are honest and have the strength to face reality, we will realize that the Soviet Union did not collapse. It simply moved,
along with Mao and Pol Pot, to Washington and London.
The flaw in Putin's diplomacy is that Putin's diplomacy relies on good will and on truth prevailing. However, the West has no
good will, and Washington is not interested in truth prevailing but in Washington prevailing. What Putin confronts is not
reasonable "partners," but a propaganda ministry aimed at him.
I understand Putin's strategy, which contrasts Russian reasonableness with Washington's threats, but it is a risky bet. Europe
has long been a part of Washington, and there are no Europeans in power who have the vision needed to separate Europe from Washington.
Moreover, European leaders are paid large sums of money to serve Washington. One year out of office and Tony Blair was worth $50
After the disasters that Europeans have experienced, it is unlikely that European leaders think of anything other than a comfortable
existence for themselves. That existence is best obtained by serving Washington. As the successful extortion of Greece by banks proves,
European people are powerless.
Washington's propaganda assault against Russia is a double tragedy, because it has diverted attention from Israel's latest atrocity
against the Palestinians locked up in the Gaza Ghetto. Israel claims that its air attack and invasion of Gaza is merely Israel's
attempt to find and close the alleged tunnels through which Palestinian terrorists pour into Israel inflicting carnage. Of course
there are no tunnels and no terrorist carnage in Israel.
One might think that at least one journalist somewhere in the American media would ask why bombing hospitals and civilian housing
closes underground tunnels into Israel. But that is too much to ask of the whores that comprise the US media.
Expect even less from the US Congress. Both the House and Senate have passed resolutions supporting Israel's slaughter of Palestinians.
Two Republicans–the despicable Lindsey Graham and the disappointing Rand Paul–and two democrats–Bob Menendez and Ben Cardin–sponsored
the Senate resolution backing Israel's premeditated murder of Palestinian women and children. The resolution passed the "exceptional
and indispensable" people's Senate unanimously.
As a reward for its policy of genocide, the Obama regime is immediately transferring $429 million of US taxpayers' money to Israel
to pay for the slaughter.
Contrast the US government's support for Israel's war crimes with the propaganda onslaught against Russia based on lies. We are
living all over again "Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction," "Assad's use of chemical weapons," "Iranian nukes."
Washington has lied for so long that it can't do anything else.
With the rabbit hole of conspiracies getting deeper by the hour, video has emerged showing what appears to be the "black
box" flight data recorder from Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 being taken from the crash scene. As
NBC reports, the men in the video are wearing Ukrainian Emergency Ministry uniforms, but a senior Ukrainian official told a news
conference Sunday that rebels had taken the black boxes. This fits with reports from The Hill that pro-Russian separatists
have located the black boxes for the downed Malaysia Airlines passenger jet and will hand them over to international authorities,
according to separatist leader Alexander Borodai. With the US having
offered more "proof" that Russia was involved, perhaps some facts from the Black Box will help clarify details in this dreadful situation...
though we are not confident.
On our planet there are only two countries that once was mistakenly shot down a civilian airliner. These countries - Ukraine and
Americans in 1988 was shot down over the Persian Gulf by Iranian A300 (killing 290 people, including 66 children). Ukrainians
in 2001 was shot down over the Black sea Russian Tu-154 (killed 66 people). Civil airliner was shot down and the USSR, but it was
not in error, and consciously. Although the incident 1983 also interesting in the context of what happened in Ukraine.
The fact that the flight MAS17 from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur used to fly on a different route. 14-th and 15-th he was flying
through the Mykolaiv and Kherson regions. 16 he was flying just North - through the Dnipropetrovsk and Zaporizhzhia oblasts. But
on July 17, the day of the disaster, he somehow flew moreover that in Donetsk region, but also directly through the territory of
the control of Kiev. The deviation from normal of course (I think the same courses on 14 and 15 July and earlier) constituted about
Somehow it up trouble like the South Korean Boeing KAL007, who also leaned on his usual route of 500 km And relations between
the USSR and the USA were approximately in the same state as it is now. The disaster has only exacerbated the crisis, and who knows,
as if he were permitted if after six months had not died Andropov.
But human beings are learning. And if the story of a South Korean airliner provocation, apparently, was not, why not to use it
as a model for future provocations.
So, what is suspicious:
First, the dramatically changed flight plan of the aircraft.
Secondly, that fact that the same airline in March already lost a plane over the Indian ocean, whose fate is still unknown.
Third, the apparent readiness of the Kiev authorities to such an accident.
The last point requires more detailed disclosures.
When an airliner is flying at an altitude of 10 km with the speed of 900 km/h, it is not possible to shoot it down using Igla
shoulder based anti-aircraft missile, using which the militia had shot down helicopters with the Ukrainian military. It can shoot
down only from more serious weapon. For example, using Buk". Several countries have this system. For example, Ukraine. In 2008 Ukrainians
supplied Ukrainians "Buk" to Georgians and they shoot down Russian tactical reconnaissance aircraft Tu-MR.
And now, about half an hour before the loss of communication with Boeing, the Secretary of the Ukrainian national security and
defense Council Andrei Lysenko declared that Donetsk militants obtained BUK system.
In the news reel of "Ukrainian Pravda" headers are really close:
17.26 - the NSDC declares about the "Buk",
17.49 - passenger aircraft was shot down in the Donetsk region.
But the tricky detail is the militia acquired the "Buck" system not yesterday and not even the same week. The first message that
militants occupied the air defense unit And-1402 with "BUK", was published... 29 June! Why then Strelkov's people did not hit by
any plane at high altitude since then? After all, they are there were quite a few plane bombing of Donetsk during this period!
The fact that passenger plane flied over Donetsk region all the time is the second problem. Ukrainian aviation authorities closed
the zone of military actions for flights, but only to the height of 7.9 thousand meters. If the Ukrainian authorities knew that the
militia captured "BUK" system, - why don't they did not declare this region the no-fly zone?
Another suspicious fact is that almost immediately after the appearance of the news about the crashed plane Internet is filled
with the statements of Ukrainian officials. Poroshenko declared the disaster to be a terrorist attack. Adviser to the head of MIA
of Ukraine Zoryan Shkiriak urged NATO to launch a ground military operation in the Donetsk region. Ukrainian propaganda Twitter accounts
began to spread false statement of CNN that the Pentagon is sure that the plane was shot down by a missile launched from the territory
Appeared ridiculous assertion that actually wanted to shoot down the plane of President Putin, as his plane two has at the center
of the fuselage a three-color strip. Such a striped is pretty difficult to see from the earth, you know, and the fact that the Boeing
777 has just two engines, and Il-96 - four, is known to almost everybody, including probably some children. Not to mention the fact
that no Board № 1 has never get close to the war zone.
Instantly, pictures are started to be transmitted from the place of the crash. And some of them were probably not genuine such
as the picture of a baby (more like a doll) and a passport of one of the passengers - a brand new, with no traces of any use. And
this is even before any locals arrived to the accident site.
And on the YouTube soon appeared a record of record of intercepted by SBU discussion of leader of self-defense Gorlovka Igor Besler
and GRU Colonel Vladimir Garanin. Butler reports to Garanin that he shot down the plane. Journalist Ilya Barabanov called Colonel
Garanin, and he was very surprised and said that he never discussed anything with Besler.
Soon the entry was removed and posted again with a different dialogue between two people claling themselves the Major and the
Greek. The Mayor says that the plane was shot "the Cossacks on Chernukhino stand". Leave it to SBU the invention of the new type
of Cossacks who can handle the Buk anti-aircraft system and focus on the audio file recording this conversation was created... 16
July. That is, or it it is a question about another plane, or is it a pre-prepared information to support this provocation.
Of course, there are questions about the other side. These questions mainly concern the mysterious An-26, allegedly downed militias
around the same time, when Boeing fell. This was written in Twitter Igor Strelkov - and this An-26 was never found, and the message
was later erased. But the thing is that nobody knows exactly who publishes news in this Twitter account.
It is known only, that this person is not Strelkov himself.
And still it is known that on July 13, the representative of the militia Ruslan Taskaev stated that the only captured "Buk" is
non-functional (Prosecutor General of Ukraine declared that nothing has ever captured at all). And how it is known that in the North-Western
outskirts of Donetsk Ukranian Army deployed divisions 156-th of anti-aircraft missile regiment of Armed forces of Ukraine which include
27 launchers of the complex "Buk-M1". Well, we now know who became the scapegoat for the shooting instread.
Further reading: http://izvestia.ru/news/574041#ixzz38269wGy3
Larry Wilkerson: Why weren't commercial flights banned over an area where aircraft had already been shot down? -
July 20, 14
WILKERSON: I don't know what the response is going to be ultimately. The response so far, I think, has been fairly cool,
calm, and calculated.
JAY: You're talking about the official response from Obama.
WILKERSON: Yes, yes. I don't count John McCain as anything other than a raving maniac anymore. Listening to him makes me
understand viscerally and deeply and profoundly what's wrong with the U.S. Congress.
JAY: The response of Obama, though, essentially is saying this is Russia's fault. Russia, Putin replied or responded by
saying this is the Ukrainian government's fault. Essentially I don't think from what I saw of Putin--he's not denying that it might
be Russian separatists that fired the missile, but he's saying they're in that situation of firing missiles because Ukraine, the
Ukrainian government, stepped up their campaign against the separatists. What do you make of this back-and-fourth?
WILKERSON: I think it's typical of what happens when great powers contend with one another over a middling power or lesser
power's territory. I think it's everybody's fault. It's particularly an egregious case of lack of responsibility of the ICAO, the
International Civil Aviation Organization, who should have put out notice to airmen and other precautionary notices about flying
in this area. It's not like this is the first plane that's been shot down at some altitude. A transport was shot down, I think, at
something like 6,000 meters. That's pretty high. That means an SA-11 or even better. So I think the first blame here goes to the
organization that's supposed to keep civilian airliners out of conflict zones like this. And then the rest of the blame, the ultimate
blame, the fundamental blame goes to all parties--the United States, Ukraine, the Russians--for not coming to some kind of negotiated
political solution to what is a cancerous problem right there in the heart of what we used to call in the old days the continental
landmass that's so important to the rest of the world.
JAY: Now, the response from a lot of leaders around the world and a lot of the press around the world, it's not all that
far from McCain's outrage. They're not, perhaps, calling for such aggressive measures against Russia as McCain is, but clearly if
this is what they're describing as pro-Russian separatists--I'm not even sure that's the right label for them, but at any rate, if
it turns out it is them, I don't think anyone would suggest they would deliberately target a passenger aircraft. The American Navy,
I believe it was, shot down an Iranian aircraft in 1988 that killed almost exactly the same member number of people--298 people were
killed. And that was not described in the West as an act of terrorism, while this one is.
WILKERSON: Yes, we're probably, possibly, the biggest hypocrites on the face of the earth. In 1988, after we'd
taken Iraq's side almost wholesalely in the Persian Gulf in a very brutal and bloody war between Iraq and Iran--a war, I might add,
Iraq started, then sends an Aegis cruiser on patrol in the Gulf, and having come under some fire, as I recall, immediately prior
to the shoot-down, had a few seconds to react [at the] combat center and reacted and shot down an Iranian Airbus and killed--my recollection
was 290 people. And that act caused Ayatollah Khomeini to, as he said himself later, throw in the towel and agree to a ceasefire
and end that brutal war, which had, I think, gone on for about eight years at that point. So the United States wastes no opportunity
to be hypocritical.
JAY: Now, the critique of the Russians in this specifically about this event is why are they giving such missiles to the
separatists and why are they getting so involved in militarily supporting them. What do you make of that critique?
WILKERSON: I think it's a sound critique as far as it goes. I suspect that with John McCain ranting and raving, and others
like him who are not quite as outspoken as he, that we're probably doing similar things and are planning on doing more, just as we've
done in other places around the world.
So what we need to do, Putin, the European Union, and United States, and Ukrainians of any type, separatist or in the East, West,
Crimea, Odessa, or wherever, is stop this business of killing one another and seek a political solution to the problem. I've said
before, we need to have a neutral Ukraine, neither aligned with Russian nor the United States nor the European Union, a Ukraine that
nonetheless is helped by all three to become more stable, politically and economically, and a Ukraine that is not coveted by anyone.
Now, the proximity of Ukraine to Russia certainly means that its relationship with Russia is going to be a lot closer and
more intimate than it is, possibly, with others, particularly that portion in Ukraine that is Russian. And a lot of Russian military
industry is in Ukraine. You can't tell Putin that he can't have that industry. It would take years to relocate that industry into
Russia proper. So there are all sorts of complexities here that need to be taken care of. But they can be taken care of if people
will quit fighting.
JAY: Now, you describe McCain as a madman, but to what extent does he represent a significant opinion in the professional
foreign-policy or, perhaps more so, the military-industrial complex? He seemed to have a fair amount of support. As I say, when he
ran in 2008, he was gung ho about this contention with Russia. A lot of people want this new Cold War.
WILKERSON: I don't think a lot of people do. I think a certain number of people do. And you named some of them--Lockheed Martin,
Raytheon, Grumman, and others who sell weapons and want to sell more. McCain is--while I might call him a madman--and lately, lately
John McCain looks just like that--he's--nonetheless comes from the warp and woof of this country. He comes from the very fabric of
this country. Go back and look at the Mexican War, which Lincoln decried from the House of Representatives and the president and
others were screaming for because they wanted to extend slavery and Texas promised to be a slave territory. Go back and look
at the Spanish-American war, when the Hearst press, the yellow press, so-called, was screaming and yelling about Spain and about
the need for the United States to do what it needed to do in Cuba and the Philippines. Go back and look at those times and you'll
find lots of John McCains around those times. That's not to excuse them or to say they're right; that's to condemn them, in
my mind, and say they're wrong. But they're there, and they're very American in that sense.
JAY: So, Larry, how dangerous a moment is this?
WILKERSON: It's a dangerous moment, Paul. I won't equivocate on that, especially if we let the John McCains rule our minds. Then
we begin to think that we have to, say, arm the other side, as it were, equal to what Putin's doing with the separatists.
But I think cooler heads will prevail here--I hope they will. And I hope we'll investigate this, we'll find out who did
it. Blame will be assigned accordingly. And it's an accident. I hope then the ICAO will put out the necessary /ˈnoʊtəmz/. This is
a very--I understand, very heavily traveled route. We'll get the civilian airliners away until we've got a political solution on
the ground, and we won't have any more shot-down and innocently killed people.
It is a dangerous moment, but it's not one that can't be handled it cooler heads prevail. And I think I've seen of late with regard
to these kind of things that the White House has a pretty cool head. I hope that is sustainable.
JAY: Alright. Thanks for joining us, Larry.
WILKERSON: Thanks for having me.
Lawrence Wilkerson is a retired United States Army soldier and former chief of staff to United States Secretary of State Colin
Powell. Wilkerson is an adjunct professor at the College of William & Mary where he teaches courses on US national security. He also
instructs a senior seminar in the Honors Department at the George Washington University entitled "National Security Decision Making."
It's a very long time since I commented as I don't regularly follow the happenings within Russia that much nowadays. It's unfortunate
that my country lost another civilian aircraft yet again.
I just want to say that Putin already lost the propaganda war – in my country and most of the world. CNN, BBC, Guardian etc.
are just too influential and deemed 'impartial' by most people in my country. If you ask me who shot the plane – I'd say wait
for the conclusion of investigators but I have a bad feeling that we will never know what really took place. To be honest, I am
inclined to think the 'pro-Russian rebels' mistakenly shot the plane although I would not be surprised if it turned out the Ukrainian
military did it. Whatever it is, Putin lost in this propaganda war. No matter how, he is already considered a 'mass murderer'
and responsible for 'the deaths of innocent people' in my country and in the eyes of most people of the world.
I think Putin made a mistake in not acting decisively on Eastern Ukraine. He should have either left the pro-Russian rebels
abandoned to their own devices or annexed Eastern Ukraine and brave the wrath of the West. Now, the Western hawks are all behind
Ukraine. I see Putin has not much choice diplomatically Perhaps, a world war is looming – thanks to Western hawkish stupidity.
It does seem like that but it is far from over. 'Winning' the propaganda war though is only one side of the coin and the smoke
hasn't even cleared yet.
A) Can the West effectively exploit this to its advantage in the Ukraine?
I don't see how this could work. What they've come up with is barely circumstantial and cannot be constituted as a hanging
offense for Russia. The coalescing (non political) view seems to be that it was an accident. How far can you run with something
B) Lasting damage to Russia's reputation. Is this going to hit trade between Russia and non-Western countries in the short
term, let alone the medium to long term?
For capitalists, it is only a passing issue unless there is an actual war or sanctions become serious. Both major businesses
in the US and Europe have come out publicly against sanctions that could seriously hit trade with Russia. Russia's ties with Asia
and elsewhere are only but expanding, where countries have the money to pay whist the West remain the economic sick men.
C) Will it change political relations significantly?
Neither Germany nor the Netherlands look like they are going to be bounced in to quick action that follows the Washington/London
line. The strategic issue of what to do with Russia has not gone away and is simply much bigger than the current conflict in the
Ukraine. At some time ground rules will need to be negotiated between Russia and the EU, probably behind closed doors. Laying
in personally to Putin would be counter intuitive diplomatically. These countries still need Russian 'help' or acquiescence in
multiple problems around the world.
What if Kiev is pinned for this? It already has some blame for letting flights go over its airspace.* It cannot be fully absolved
in any case.
The damage would be immense and widespread, taking in NATO, trans-atlantic relations etc. Simply walking away and saying it
was a mistake and expecting everything to remain the same will not be possible even if they try.
What happened is beyond horrible and there's plenty of disgust to spread around for those milking it amorally for their own
political purposes. Nothing has changed.
Al, you ask "what if Kiev is pinned for this?" No problem, it can be easily spun. Depending on whether the US wants to keep
Pork Chop, it can be spun a number of ways such as it was a rogue unit or an attempted coup against Pork Chop and he and his cabinet
knew nothing about it, they were misled by elements within their own intelligence services. This is a god one since the US then
has the excuse to get involved in making Ukraine's intelligence services more 'professional'. Alternatively, if Pork Chop is for
the chop so to speak, it can be described as sheer incompetence, the Ukrainian government were all for putting their hands up
to it but Pork Chop overruled them and so he has to go. Or even it was done by a Ukrainian unit that had been tortured by the
rebels and were suffering from PTSD and worthy of our sympathy and understanding.
The West has had decades of experience at this sort of thing. And the MSM will follow the party line like a flock of starlings
without any apparent awareness that they were flying in one direction and are now flying in the opposite one.
I'm not so sure Fern. Such spinnings may have worked very well in the past but us general voting cattle are no longer related
to the brass monkeys of old.
We see this reflected more and more in comments sections of news items where more and more people say "Well how is this different
from anything we/our government do/does?"). This view is in part driven by disappointment by the failings of our own governments
and seeing decisive leaders in action (Putin), i.e. the grass is greener on the other side syndrome, but this is still people
actively making this view public, not some anonymous passive poll taking with the usual fixed or leading questions.
The complete contradictions become harder and harder to ignore and are amplified when our media simply ignore them and other
basic questions you would expect even the greenest of journalists to ask.
Sure, most people do not spend obsessive amounts of time on public forums picking over everything, but the method is clearly
repeated over and over and over again. Memory can be refreshed by a simple internet search.
I think that finally public consciousness has caught up with the cynical and amoral games our leaders have been playing since
time immemorial and also might have something to do with the recognition of the West's current and relative diminishing of its
global powers. We've all become extremely cynical.
As for the rest of the world, I see similar cynicism yet more hope for the future.
These are extraordinary times we are living in and it is really difficult to look at ongoing events with an impartial perspective
even if you try, but at least us commenters here on Mark's blog recognize this.
Is probably true that the West "won the propaganda war".
Which would be the case if people around the world are stupid enough to regard channels like the "BBC" and "CNN" as dispassionate,
objective sources (as opposed to mouthpieces for their respective governments).
In which case, if Russia already lost the propaganda war, then it is all the more urgent that the Rebels win the "real war".
The one on the ground.
In which case, Russia needs to start arming and supporting the Rebs with all due urgency. Otherwise, if Strelkov is right,
the Rebels will be defeated, and then Russia will have lost 2 wars, both propaganda and actual.
And then, following such a defeat, Russia will also lose Crimea again and have to hand over Crimea and the entire Black Sea
(Channelling Karl here, but his dire predictions have been right about a lot of things….)
Does anyone else have a desire to just quit following the whole Ukraine mess and reading Russia related articles in mainstream
media? I think I am having this moment right now.
Russia is being attacked from all fronts in our (Finnish) mainstream media. Multiple articles and op-eds are being written
every day and the tone is getting more hateful and aggressive all the time. Each story is being spun in favor of Kiev/West and
against Russia. I'm certain that Russia has never received this much of hatred and venom in Finland since the days of war.
Being a dissident in this environment is getting pretty hard. A few years ago there were some Russia friendly commentators
in news comment sections, but most of them have disappeared. That mat at least partly be a result of censorship. In Helsingin
Sanomat my messages are being systematically censored. Some of the messages were published but were later deleted by the moderators.
I also created an account to a Finnish military forum called maanpuolustus.net. 100% of the folks there were pro-West and pro-Kiev.
I posted some Youtube videos about Kiev atrocities in eastern Ukraine and my account was immediately banned.
The media of my country claims to be "free", but I feel like living in a media dictatorship where only the "correct" and "patriotic"
views are allowed. Being anti-Russian is part of the Finnish patriotism. You cannot be a true Finnish patriot unless you either
directly hate Russia or pretend to be "concerned about human rights/democracy in Russia" and by that way conceal your hatred behind
Reading the mainstream media only makes me angered and it is not healthy. It is a nice summer so why should I ruin my mood
with this? Trying to fight an anti-Russian propaganda in our media is like trying to swim uphill. You are being either censored
or banned, or you are being attacked and blamed being a Kremlin troll.
For your psychological health, I would recommend just taking a rest from the news, at least for a while. Go off somewhere, and
enjoy your summer!
Life is too short to suffer when you don't have to.
Along the theme of "Forget the propaganda war, Rebels MUST win the Real War",
here is an opinion piece by Boris Kagarlitsky, from
yesterday. This is one of the best political analyses I have seen, how this war in Ukraine relates to Russian politics.
At the beginning of July, Novorossiya was saved by a whisker. Having avoided he catastrophic defeat that was prepared for it by
"Fifth Column" in Donetsk as well as the "Sixth Column" in Moscow [yalensis: I think he means, not so much the ineffectual White
Ribbon types, as the neo-liberal types who hang around the Kremlin), the Peoples Republics were able to deliver a strategic defeat
to the junta. From this point on, a turning point in the war is possible. But this depends not only on what happens at the Front.
The shattering Igor Strelkov's grouping [in Slav'ansk] would have paved the way [for junta troops to enter] Donetsk from 3
directions, without any threats to their flanks. This would have pleased the Moscow liberals. But History decided otherwise. The
reinforcing of Slav'ansk and the bold actions of the Resistance prevented the triumphal march of the National Guard throug Donbass.
Thus was averted the junta's Plan B, which was based on the work of traitors. [yalensis: Here, once again, I believe that Kagarlitsky
has Kurgin'an in mind!] The main forces of the Resistance were supposed to remain in place and continue to defend Slav'ansk, while
at the same time the "Fifth Column" was supposed to open the gates of Donetsk to the army of the "Punishers". The city (Donetsk)
did not have adequate reinforcements, and within the leadership of the DPR sat some people who were loyal to Rinat Akhmetov. However,
this Plan B collapsed at the beginning of July, just as Plan A had collapsed at the beginning of June.
There is still no (decisive) break in the war. But it could happen, if the Novorossiya republics can hold out until autumn(…)
This doesn't fit in with the plans of the Kiev junta, nor with the plans of certain very influential people in Moscow. These latter
were shocked by the setback to (Kiev's) latest plan. (…) Their shock at the planned "throwing of Novorossiya under the bus" gave
rise to these rude attacks, on the part of the conservatives, against Strelkov.(…)
The civil war in the Ukraine has exposed the crisis of Russian politics. All the hopes and dreams of the (Russian) elites to
avoid new conflicts with the EU and USA, have been shattered, because internal problems of the Western countries push them into
a fight against the Russian government, and Russian capital [yalensis: "Capital" in the Marxist sense, not the capital of a country].
The Kremlin's timid attempt to allow some integration of post-Soviet economies is regarded by Brussels and Washington as an act
of aggression, as a threat to the neo-liberal order in Eurasia. And, moreover, the betrayal of Novorossiya by the "Sixth Column"
would not have changed a thing, except for the fact that USA and EU, taking advantage of this situation, would have struck ever
more blows against Russia. Because this is the only way they can secure their hegemony.
The war in Ukraine has divided Russian society. It has divided both (traditional) "lefts" and "rights" into proponents of reaction;
versus those who want to see (a genuine) socio-economic rebirth of the post-Soviet world. Those who support Novorossiya, regardless
of their subjective inclinations and prejudices, are objectively supporting a social republic, a union of peoples, and an actual
democracy (….) The people in power are also divided. But there, the struggle takes on a secretive character. The opinions of the
Russian oligarchy, and the balance between liberal and non-liberal groupings within the government, as always remain the main
obstacle for any Kremlin attempts to defend (Russia's) national interests.
Yesterday the enemy cut the last main highway linking the Donetsk with Lugansk and, accordingly, with Russia. Strong points
of the enemy are now in the villages Beloye and Vesela Tarasovka. Now ukry hastily buried in the ground several dozens of tanks
and armored personnel carriers, in order to exclude the possibility of breaking the defense.
... surrender of Tarasivka should be viewed in the operations scale as a strategic defeat!
Now we are cut off from the border - that is, from any supplies
At night the enemy went through the Tonenkoe to the airport of Donetsk, creating a network of base stations, each of which
is protected 5-7 tanks.
Just now three Su bombers hit Saur-grave with heavy bombs. The results are not known yet. Boeing is used by Ukrow "to the fullest"...
Aviation of ukrow dominates in the sky with impunity.
In the area of Grygorivka militia attacked the convoy of the enemy. The results are still need evaluation.
Items presumed to be the data recorders from the crashed Malaysian plane have been found and delivered to Donetsk, eastern Ukraine,
according to the leader of the self-proclaimed People's Republic of Donetsk.
"Aircraft parts looking like black boxes were
found at the site of the plane crash. They are currently in Donetsk, in the People's Republic's (DPR) government headquarters, under
my personal control," Aleksandr Boroday, the republic's prime minister, told reporters.
The self-defense forces are ready to hand the data recorders over to international monitors "in case they arrive," he
Boroday said that the found items "cannot be given" to Kiev representatives since in that case they could possibly damage
them to "falsify the results [of the recordings]."
Another official for the DPR, Sergey Kavtaradze, said that what he thought were the flight recorders looked undamaged on the outside.
He added that since there are no aviation experts in the DPR, they cannot be absolutely sure that the found items are the black boxes.
The items will be passed to the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) which will lead the investigation into the crash
of flight MH17.
The publicly offered evidence against everyone in the Malaysian Airlines MH17 crash remains as it was yesterday,
sparse and of dubious
trustworthiness. The rhetoric continues to pick up steam, however, with assorted Western officials continuing to pronounce absolute
certainty as to the official truth, whatever it happens to be at any given time.
it centers on proclamations of the Ukrainian rebels' guilt, and Russian culpability, though the narrative tends to be flexible, and
yesterday's insistence of the rebels using a 9k37 Buk vehicle seized from Ukraine's military has, without explanation, transitioned
into the vehicles being provided by Russia, of which
Ukraine insists incontrovertible,
though totally secret, proof.
The Obama Administration is similarly claiming evidence of rebel guilt, though their evidence too is being withheld, likely in
anticipation of further changes to the official story.
As the accusations fly fast and freely, another new question has emerged. If, as Ukraine claims, it had so much proof of the rebels
having such advanced anti-aircraft missiles, then
why was the
claim never made publicly until nearly a day after the crash. Likewise, Ukraine's claims of rebel shoot-downs of military aircraft
in the leadup to the MH17 incident seem to be morphing, as it was only hours before that incident that Ukraine was insisting Russia's
Air Force was directly behind the downing of their Su-25 warplanes.
The wreckage is still barely inspected, and Ukraine is
throwing around claims
of a cover-up, perhaps anticipating that their allegations will not be upheld when the evidence is examined.
But for most nations, particularly the US and other Western nations, the fallout of the incident is something to be shopped around
for diplomatic advantage, with officials
pushing Russia to forcibly end the east Ukrainian rebellion as some sort of payment for ending the hysterical anti-Russia rhetoric
surrounding the entire incident. Russia so far seems content to hold out for actual evidence, but Western officials appear to believe
it is a buyer's market, and that the perception of guilt is the real problem for Russia, not whether it is upheld by weeks of investigation.
At this time my provisional conclusion is that MH17 was shot down by an air defense battery of the Ukrainian
army, from Ukrainian territory, using an SA-17 Buk missile. I respectfully associate myself with the statements of the Russian federal
government on the issue.
My estimate is that a 9M317 single-stage, solid fueled missile was used, in semi-active homing mode. The 317 uses a radar proximity
fuse and a direct hit can probably be ruled out. That is to say the warhead probably detonated away from the hull, perhaps as much
as 50 feet away.
That is consistent with the eyewitness evidence, which is of the plane falling from the sky more or less intact, and breaking
apart on impact, and the tight debris field. Although there was a post-crash fire most of the unfortunate victims seem to have died
from negative G-forces whilst strapped into their seats.
The fact that most passengers were strapped in suggests that Captain Leong had time to warn his passengers of impending missile
impact. There is some evidence that he took evasive maneuvers, correctly diving the aircraft to increase speed and mitigate damage
due to explosive decompression.
MH17's assigned altitude, by Ukrainian air traffic control, was FL330, or 33,000 feet. I suspect that Captain Leong or his first
officer saw the incoming and, as indicated, dived, so that interception was at a lower altitude.
There is no evidence that the target fireballed at altitude, which rules out a direct hit on the fuel tanks,
although we may find some shrapnel damage.
The mainstream media, who are rushing to blame Russia, or pro-Russian separatists, are showing typical aviation illiteracy,
of the sort on display after MH370 was shot down. On that occasion, as regular readers of this column will recall, they did not
understand that aviation fuel is light and evaporates. That basic technical deficiency led them to confuse the diesel slick from
the sunk Chinese SSK with fuel from the downed airliner.
On this occasion they are reporting at one and the same time, sometimes on the same page, that the airliner was 'blown out of
the sky' yet fell to the ground intact and broke apart on landing. In the UK the Sun is leading the race to come up with the
silliest reporting, with respect. Its front page today was asinine. Its journalistic standards are in freefall to New York Times
If the stricken airliner did not fireball and had time to take evasive action, it also had time to broadcast a Mayday message.
The fact that it did not suggests that its radios were being jammed. We will probably find that its ACARS reporting system failed
as well, as with MH370. I find it highly significant that there is a media blackout on the status on the ACARS system.
If the ACARS was disabled, or the radios were jammed, then the pro-Russian separatists can safely be ruled out,
although as I explain below they can be pretty much ruled out anyway, as they lack the capability.
The SA-17, which also has a naval variant, originally entered Soviet service in 1979, but it has been developed
considerably since then, indeed the latest, SA-17, versions have a different Pentagon classification.
It is fired from either a Transporter-Erector Launcher (TEL), with four missiles, or a Transport-Erector Launcher And Radar (TELAR),
which I think can carry up to six missiles, depending on version. It is a highly capable system, in service with both the Russian
and Ukrainian armed forces.
Some of the technology may have been transferred from the US during the Soviet period by DVD assets in Washington. The SA-17 is
similar to the excellent Standard missile, indeed it is sometimes jokingly referred to as the "Standardski".
The distinction between the TEL and the TELAR is important, because it is being said that Russian separatists captured a Buk launcher,
although the evidence consists only of social media reports, a dubious source of information at best. The evidence, such as it is,
is equally consistent with the Ukrainians setting the rebels up. The separatists themselves have strongly denied any high-altitude
The Buk represented a significant improvement over the SA-6 Gainful which preceded it. There is no doubt that TELAR vehicles can
both acquire and launch but significant doubt that a TEL on its own has any target acquisition capability.
So far as I can tell a TEL is basically a launch on visual confirmation of target system, i.e. pretty basic, rather like a shoulder-launched
MANPAD. You see the target, point your missile in its rough direction and shoot, relying on the missile's onboard target acquisition
system (typically infra-red with MANPADs and semi-active with the Buk) to achieve lock-on, hoping another target does not get in
The SA-17 is designed to be fired from a command vehicle, that is to say it is not so very different from the SA-6, where you
needed three vehicles (radar, command vehicle and launcher). There is not the slightest evidence that the separatists acquired a
command vehicle, indeed there is no reliable evidence that they acquired a TELAR. The most they might have got – and I am not buying
even that – was a TEL.
If the most they have is a TEL then we can rule them out completely for a beyond visual range engagement, as happened
yesterday. Even if they had a TELAR there is no evidence that they have anyone trained on the Buk. I do not buy the argument that
it can be used by your average separatist, many of them no brighter than the average journalist or MP (no offense intended), without
specialist training. There are no reports at all of the separatists having fired any training rounds, i.e. if it was them they
achieved a long-range kill first time they fired the weapon. Not buying.
Missile speed for the 317 version is around Mach 4, giving Captain Leong no chance at all, given that his radars were switched
on and no one showed him my work on MH370. An SA-17 warhead is typically around 70 kilos, or 154 pounds (there are different versions
of the missile), enough to down a 777. It's a big bird, around 18 feet long, weighing in at just over 1,500 pounds. It's large enough
for one of the pilots to have spotted its approach in broad daylight, given the good visibility. The solid fuel rocket engine has
a burn time of around 15 seconds and leaves a highly visible exhaust trail.
The 317 has a range of about 27-28 miles. That is significant because MH17 was shot down about 25 miles from the Russian
frontier. That is getting close to the limit of system capabilities for a launch from Russian territory. US intelligence sources
are being quoted today as saying that the missile was fired from within the Ukraine, which makes sense to me, and is one of the
reasons why I conclude, provisionally, that the Ukrainians were responsible.
Kiev Must Have Known It Was MH17
The next thing to note about the SA-17 is that it has a sophisticated phased-array fire control radar, capable
of target differentiation. Assuming, as I am prepared to assume, that it was the Ukrainian army, then they must have known that it
was MH17. A freely available phone app was all they would have needed to tell them where the flight was.
The target was flying along a designated airway at a typical altitude for a civilian airliner, probably with an active transponder
until it was taken down after entering Ukrainian airspace. It was not maneuvering, at least not until it saw the incoming, and could
not conceivably have been confused for a military aircraft, not least as it had been directed to the kill zone by Ukrainian air traffic
It seems that the motive was to discredit Russia, and that nice man President Putin in particular. The Ukrainian
attack on MH17 was obviously planned well in advance.
The preparations may have included fake entries on social media websites to the effect that the rebels had acquired an SA-17 launcher.
So far as is known there were no persons of interest on board the plane, unlike MH370, save for the poor AIDS researchers.
It is wildly improbable that it is a coincidence that both shot down aircraft were Malaysian. Someone is making a point. Malaysian
Airlines are being taken down. If you have any frequent flyer miles on Malaysian use them up now, preferably on a partner airline.
The Administration has also rounded on the Russians and the rebels. Its claim that the rebels were to blame is obvious nonsense,
which is unlikely to have been supported by professional intelligence officers, who would have had access to pretty much the same
ELINT as the Russians.
I entirely support Moscow's claim to be in possession of ELINT data indicating that the target was painted by
Ukrainian fire control radar, probably the organic fire control radar of a Ukrainian SA-17 battery.
The total inability of the Administrationto give the co-ordinates of this alleged rebel-controlled SA-17
launcher is telling. All that President Obama could say today was that the missile was fired from within a rebel-held area.
That, with respect, is an obvious lie, since the NSA would have overheads, as well as the ELINT data. If the attack genuinely
came from a rebel-held area then you can bet your bottom dollar the Administration would be handing out the evidence.
It is likely that the attack was cleared by Kiev in advance, high up the payroll, with both Berlin and the White House. The FAA,
which is penetrated and was implicated in helping to set up the Turkish Airlines DC-10 Paris Air Disaster, seems to have helped in
setting up the rebels as patsies. The presence of only one US citizen on board carried obvious political attractions for the White
One must recall that the covert German DVD intelligence organisation has thoroughly penetrated the Obama Administration, at a
senior level, and is in effective control of the German federal government. It is the world's only intelligence agency which regularly
attacks commercial airliners.
The Russians have never knowingly shot down a civilian airliner on a designated airway. I leave out of account KAL007 and the
earlier KAL Boeing 707 incident, as those aircraft were well off course, were intercepted at night and had violated Soviet airspace
There is no reason at all to suppose that the Soviet fighter pilots thought they were attacking a Boeing 747, indeed
there is no reliable evidence that KAL007 was even showing her navigation lights. As I point out in Spyhunter there are
unanswered questions about that incident.
... ... ...
The Failure to Follow Up the MH370 Shoot Down
Those who suppressed my warnings from the aviation community now have blood on their hands. Had poor Captain
Leong known that the Bad Guys were deliberately firing long range missiles at airliners using semi-active homing he would have known
better than to cruise over contested airspace with his radars turned on.
Had my advice, as given in Spyhunter and in this column after MH370 was shot down, been followed, then this tragedy would
not have happened. It is upsetting to see lives thrown away in this casual manner.
At least my argument that airliners face high altitude missile threats, obvious from the time we realised that the Iranians had
shot down TWA800 with a Phoenix, may now be given greater weight. Aviation security consultants have obsessed, dangerously, with
MANPADS, which have a typical ceiling of only 12-15,000 feet.
It is a pity that Malaysian Airlines did not consult me after 370. Almost alone amongst aviation security experts I was alive
to the high-altitude threat, indeed I am the only aviation intelligence specialist in the world to have gone public on the high altitude
missile threat to airliners.
I would have advised strongly against flying through contested Ukrainian airspace. The FAA warnings and claims
that the rebels had acquired a Buk would have been further red flags for me.
There it is, sadly. The airline rejected my claim that MH370 was shot down, or accepted it and participated in the
cover-up, took no steps whatsoever to guard against the high altitude missile threat and have now lost another 777, 295 people
and probably the airline itself into the bargain.
Malaysia's Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Tribunal (KLWCT) found former Israeli army general Amos Yaron and the state of Israel guilty
of crimes against humanity and genocide stemming from the massacre of Palestinians in Beirut's Sabra and Shatila refugee camps in
For the past two weeks, Malaysia has been strongly condemning Israel's aggression on Gaza.
...and, possibly, for the past two weeks, Israel's been thinking about how to punish Malaysia.
WASHINGTON -- President Obama said the United States has "increasing confidence" that the missile that shot down a Malaysian
jetliner came from Russian separatists in Ukraine -- and that Russia bears some responsibility for the crisis.
"Evidence indicates that the plane was shot down by a surface-to-air missile from an area that is controlled by Russian backed
separatists inside Ukraine," Obama said in his first extensive remarks on the passenger jet crash. "A group of separatists can't
shoot down military transport planes or, they claim, fighter jets, without sophisticated military equipment, and that comes from
Yes. We are also not winning in Iraq, and that comes from Iran.
Obama noted that about a hundred AIDS researchers and activists were reportedly on the flight, headed to a conference in Australia.
"These were men and women who dedicated their own lives to saving the lives of others, and they were taken from us in a senseless
act of violence," he said. "It's important for us to lift them up and affirm their lives."
Do speechwriters just string together random crap to generate maximum pathos?
Not sure about the creation date in the mp4 meta data being such a great evidence. It's known to be iffy at times and different
from the actual file creation. But on the original research page
at zerohedge.com it becomes clear the video was partly preexisting since June 5 in terms of format, production and some imagery
used. Very sloppy all in all, even if the creation date would be a red herring, the odd production and timing is certainly not!
And the shoot-down coming on the day the Israeli ground invasion of Gaza began is a curious coincidence- something spectacular
to divert the low-information public's attention? I have to wonder just how much you'd have to pay someone- say, in the Ukraine
military- to target and launch on a civilian airliner as part of a false-flag op?
In other important, world-shaking news, Kim Kardashian was seen today showing off her bottom. How easily we're distracted from
real issues these days.
How does Russia possibly benefit from this shoot down (cui bono?). This question was not asked by Washington when they claimed
that Assad used sarin gas on his own people, even though he had nothing to gain and everything to lose. And, naturally, they are
not asking it now. Washington does not want its sheeple to think now, does it?
Pictures that got to the Internet today from the crash site suggest that the airliner was shot not "BUK" surface to air missile
but by air to air mille from those "unknown" two fighters, which were mentioned in his blog "the Spanish air traffic controller"
who work at Borispol airport in Kiev.
"In anti-aircraft missiles have different type of warheads depending to the type of the rocket, " explained to the newspaper one
of the creators of the complex "Buk". - So from the wreckage it is easy to determine what type of rocket surface to air or air to
air was used".
For example, in the complex "Buk" use anti-aircraft missiles MM. Their speed - 850 meters per second, a warhead weight of 70 kg.
Warhead payload consists of are metal balls which when the warhead is blow near the target create a dense cloud of balls rushing
to target of high speed.
"When such balls hit the aircraft it inflicts a mass of different holes, " says the designer. - In the fuselage they can be small,
in the fuel tanks much bigger and it they get into the engine that they "knock out" all the turbine blades".
Judging by photos of the remains of a Boeing 777, the expert concludes that the plane was shot by aircraft air to air missile.
In their military units not the balls but a beam of sharp metal rods, sometimes welded together, sometimes not. For the set bundle
of rods installed release charge which is called the "fragmentation rod combat unit". When the warhead approaches the target at predetermined
distance the charge is explodes in the warhead and a bundle of rods on supersonic speeds rush to the target.
After contact with the aircraft a rod just due to its huge kinetics energy is to pierce the plane through thus destroying the
internal structure of the aircraft, including electrical circuits and vital avionics equipment. The speed of the rod is such that
he can break apart even titanium spars of the aircraft. If the target gets more then 2-3% of these arrows, the plane is completely
doomed: at speeds of 900 km per hours even small hole fuselage or a wing is fatal as air flow will destroy the damaged part in less
than a minute.
Such warheads are installed on two types of missiles R-73 and R-27. At first its mass is 7.4 kg, second - 40 kg. Fighters MiG-29
and su-27 are equipped with those missiles. Both machines take an active part in the Ukrainian troops "anti-terrorist operation"
in the South-East of the country.
As noted the designer of Buk:
" I am confident that from the photos that appeared in the Internet visible damage to the skin of the airliner has characteristic
of fragmentation rods, not a high-explosive ball-based warhead, such as Buk".
Those pictures make the mysterious message "Spanish" Manager that Boeing 777 was accompanied by two Ukrainian fighter (the militia
there is no technique), and his assumption that after the "visit" of these cars passenger liner disappeared from radar screens, less
implausible. In this situation the version of of the Federal air transport Agency saying that the attack on the Malaysian Boeing
could be an attempt to shoot down the plane of the President of Russia Vladimir Putin, who was returning from Latin America, as their
routes overlap, and the colors of the fuselage two aircraft very similar.
In favor of this version speaks that fact, that in the place of supposed route of two aircraft of the Ukrainian military in advance
deployed a battery of anti-aircraft missile systems Buk and put them on high alert, as evidenced by the data of the radio interceptions
of the Russian military. They also raised into the air two fighters. And the fact that militia has no aviation means tha attack was
performed by the Ukrainian side. Looks like the pilots of the Ukrainian air force were unable to distinguish Malaysian Boeing 777
from Russian Il-96.
And it is easy to make such a mistake due to similarity of sizes and colors of the plane. Moreover in 2001 the calculation of
the Ukrainian anti-aircraft missile system S-200V easily identified a Russian passenger Tu-154 as a missile target and hit it destroying
the airliner with all people aboard. Although on the radar screen targets are drastically distinct with different size of the label,
and on speed of flight.
And it is difficult to say something positive about the training of Ukrainian air force pilots. The bombing of cities and towns
of the South-East of Ukraine shows a very low level of training of flying personnel of the air force. This is confirmed by the number
of lost in battle helicopters and planes.
The downing of Malaysian Airlines flight 17 (MH17) is a tragedy that will be remembered for years
to come. However, the way in which the West has distorted the facts about what happened is no mere accident. Rather, it is a clear
attempt by Washington and its allies and proxies to capitalize on the incident, using it as a weapon in their continued belligerent
and aggressive policies toward Russia.
Recent days have seen a deluge of propaganda from both the US Government and the western media
(especially US media) which, despite being short on facts, has attempted to place the blame for MH17 squarely on Russia and Russian
President Vladimir Putin. While this certainly is no surprise given the public demonization campaign of Russia throughout the
conflict in Ukraine, it undoubtedly crosses the line from laughable to utterly irresponsible and dangerous. Given the already
icy relations between the two countries, it seems that Washington has as part of its strategy the inflammation of tensions.
But why? What does the US political establishment, which includes both major parties, hope to
gain from this tragedy? Or, perhaps more specifically, how does the United States plan to capitalize on the incident? The propaganda,
spin, and outright lies from Western media cannot be understood in a vacuum. Rather, they must be recognized as part and parcel
of the larger political agenda of the West both in Ukraine, and Eastern Europe as a whole.
Essentially, the US political establishment, and its corporate media appendage, attempted to make
a flimsy case into a politically expedient narrative that would bolster the US-NATO agenda in Ukraine, while simultaneously legitimizing
the belligerent, anti-Russian rhetoric and policies that the White House and Congress have been pursuing. Moreover, Washington
has attempted to use the incident to deflect attention from the brutal war crimes and other embarrassing aspects of the US-backed
Kiev regime's horrific war against the people of eastern Ukraine.
The specific lies, omissions, and distortions propagated by Washington and its dutiful media servants
must be recalled in order to debunk them, but perhaps more importantly, to demonstrate the clear and unmistakable way in which
they have been used to cobble together a false narrative that, despite being an admitted fabrication, will be made permanent in
the minds of many Americans.
The Kiev regime has proclaimed repeatedly that Russia was behind the attack, offering "evidence"
of "Russian participation." The first piece of "evidence" were the
tape recordings that purportedly provided proof that anti-Kiev rebels and, by implication, Russian agents working with them,
had admitted to downing MH17. However, a careful analysis by renowned digital sound analyst Nikolai Popov and his team of experts
concluded that that the recordings were not authentic, that is to say, they were cobbled together using various recordings from
before the disaster occurred. As Popov
noted, "This audio recording is not an integral file and is made up of several fragments."
While Popov's team's findings should not be taken as gospel, they do call into question the authenticity
of the supposed "evidence." In fact, it is quite likely that the recordings were constructed from actual conversations by anti-Kiev
rebels discussing the downing of a Ukrainian Su-25 fighter jet days before the MH17 incident. Of course, the findings should not
be seen as definitive, but as yet, they constitute the only sound analysis done of the recordings. It seems more than convenient
that neither the US nor any of its partners have carried such an analysis, and have instead chosen to proclaim the recordings'
authenticity based purely on faith that Kiev is telling the truth. Naturally, this is a dangerous assumption considering the established
pattern of lying by Kiev to further its war against the citizens of the East.
Indeed, the regime in Kiev has lied its way throughout the last week with almost every statement
and piece of "evidence" it has provided. Yet another example can be found in the video the government released which purportedly
showed a Russian Buk missile battery with at least one missile missing moving in the direction of Russia from rebel-held territory.
Unfortunately for Kiev, the videos have been examined by many familiar with the region and exposed as distortions insofar as they
actually show the Buk systems in Kiev-controlled territory, not rebel areas as Poroshenko & Co. have alleged. And so, with this
information, it raises the question not only of Kiev's lies regarding Russian involvement, but also the far more sinister likelihood
that it was, in fact, Kiev's military forces, whether under orders or simply through irresponsibility and negligence, that actually
Additionally, one must examine the claims made and repeated ad nauseam by Kiev that it had no
military aircraft in the skies when MH17 was shot down. From July 17 (the day of the incident) until July 21 (the day Russia's
Ministry of Defense presented its intelligence), the Kiev regime continually denied allegations that its military aircraft were
in the vicinity of MH17. However, once Russia's MoD provided the international press with evidence refuting that claim and showing
that not only were Ukrainian jets in the vicinity, but they were within firing range, magically that talking point ceased to be
repeated. In other words, every aspect of the Kiev regime's narrative has been thoroughly discredited.
And so, by July 23rd, the media headlines which had, until that point, simply been reiterating
the claims made by Kiev and using "US assessments" (whatever that's worth), began to finally admit that there is absolutely no
evidence directly tying Russia to the incident. So, the US State Department, along with nearly all major media, were exposed as
part of a comprehensive propaganda matrix designed to further US foreign policy aims, rather than report information accurately
and objectively. More to the point, just two days earlier, the US State Department made the claim that it had the intelligence
to "prove" Russian involvement but, when pressed by Associated Press journalist Matt Lee, refused to provide any hard evidence,
be it intelligence or reconnaissance imagery, to support their claims.
So once again Secretary of State John Kerry, and the entire State Department, have been made to
look foolish in their rush to accuse Russia of wrongdoing, as was the case with the Secretary of State regurgitating the
discredited claim of anti-semitic
leaflets being handed out by anti-Kiev rebel forces. The US media, like the State Department, obviously have egg on their
face, as can be demonstrated quite clearly by the NY Post headlines of July 22nd and July 23rd. On July 22nd, the Post printed
on its cover the headline "Dear Vlad – 'Thank you…for murdering my loved and only child'", followed less than twenty four hours
later with the headline "US: No direct link to Russia found in MH17 attack." This sort of shameful propaganda, designed to enflame
anti-Russian sentiments, rather than report facts, is standard fare for US media and the corporate interests it serves.
Washington's Political Agenda
The attempts by the US and its allies and proxies to blame Russia for the downing of MH17 expose
a transparently cynical foreign policy in Ukraine, and Eastern Europe more broadly, that seeks to dominate and intimidate Russia
politically, economically, and militarily. Naturally, this strategy is doomed to fail as the Russia of 2014 is certainly not the
Russia of 1994. The MH17 episode is a case in point, showing just how the Washington and Kiev have tried to capitalize on every
opportunity to achieve strategic goals by demonizing Russia.
A close look at some of the statements from the State Department in recent days illustrates clearly
the way in which the Obama administration tried to leverage the disaster in order to buttress the failing war against the anti-Kiev
rebels in eastern Ukraine. US State Department Deputy Spokesperson Marie Harf indicated in a briefing with reporters that the
US asked Russia to demand that the anti-Kiev rebels "leave the region" in which the crash occurred so that an investigation could
take place. In other words, Washington seeks to use the MH17 investigation as a backdoor option for Kiev to regain territory that
it has been unable to conquer militarily; an undoubtedly, and quite despicably, cynical ploy by the US.
But of course, the US is now trying to use the fact that Russia was not involved in the attack
"directly" as a way for Washington to drive a wedge between Moscow and the anti-Kiev rebels. By stating that Russia is not "directly"
responsible, Washington is attempting to put Putin in a corner by giving him the opportunity to exonerate himself and Russia by
abandoning the anti-Kiev forces, letting them hang to save his skin. Once again, it seems that the Obama administration is grossly
underestimating Putin's resolve on the issue of Ukraine. It is quite clear that the Kremlin is never going to allow a hostile
regime that is publicly on the record as seeking NATO participation/observer status and is outwardly hostile to Russia and ethnic
Russians to dominate the whole country and create problems in the future.
Indeed, this issue of Putin's resolve is central to understanding why Russia has been so assertive
in Ukraine since the crisis began. As Putin explained on
We shall provide an adequate and well-measured response to NATO's expansion towards Russia's
borders, and we shall take note of [the West] setting up a global missile defense architecture and building up its arsenals
of precision-guided weapons…No matter what our Western counterparts tell us, we can see what's going on. As it stands, NATO
is blatantly building up its forces in Eastern Europe, including the Black Sea and the Baltic Sea areas. Its operational and
combat training activities are gaining in scale…The so-called competitive struggle at the international arena will imply the
use of tools in both economic and political fields. This will include the potential of security services, modern information
and communication technologies, and connections of dependent, puppet NGOs – the so-called soft power…apparently, some countries
regard it as democracy.
Such frank tough talk from Putin is a good indication of why the US regards him and Russia as
the primary obstacle to its goal of maintaining and extending US hegemony. Despite the US missile plans for Eastern Europe, the
continued imposition of punitive sanctions on key individuals and entities in Russia, the expansion of NATO and its attempt to
absorb former Soviet republics into its sphere of influence, and a host of other issues, Russia stands firm and undeterred. Whatever
one may think about Putin and his government, it's quite clear that they are not going to succumb to the usual arm-twisting, threats,
blackmail, subversion or destabilization that the US employs to get its way. Perhaps this, at least in part, explains why Putin
is more popular in his country than any other leader in the world.
The downing of MH17 is a shocking tragedy. The dead should be mourned alongside the innocent eastern
Ukrainians who have also paid with their lives for the regime change operation that the US sponsored in Ukraine. However, beyond
the sorrow and despair engendered by MH17, the world should focus its attention on the political maneuvers that the US has employed
to capitalize on the tragedy and, in so doing, moving forward with its agenda of destabilization and aggression against Russia.
Washington's belligerent policy is nothing new. However, the stakes have never been higher than they are today.
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